Dolby Vision, including HDR10 conversion w/ DTM on Projectors? - Page 43 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1261 of 1404 Old 03-22-2020, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bejoy View Post
Hi All!

I am thinking of picking up the HD Fury Vertex 2. Would it work with my theater setup?
The easiest, and most flexible, is to put it between the AVR and the projector. That way it will work for all source, current and future.
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post #1262 of 1404 Old 03-22-2020, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Bejoy View Post
Hi All!

I am thinking of picking up the HD Fury Vertex 2. Would it work with my theater setup? (120 inch screen Screen Innovations Black Diamond, Epson 4040 4k enhanced HDR10 projector)?

And if so, do I connect the Vertex 2 to the Oppo 203?

Or, do I connect all my devices (ATV4k, UB820, and Oppo 203) into the Vertex, and then Vertex to the AVR? I have a remote programming coming up in May (URC programming with URC MX780 and MRF260 base station, so wasnt sure if i shoudl run everything into the AVR, and then put the Vertex 2 inbetween the AVR and the projector..


Thanks in advance!
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My sincere advice is that if you're thinking of getting a Vertex 2, then just get one - aside from this hack, the Vertex is the single most useful bit of diagnostic kit I've ever bought for my theatre. And yes, it would work perfectly for you.

I was a bit late to the party with an original Vertex, but when I bought one, I just wondered why the hell I hadn't done it earlier...

You can connect either before the avr or after depending how you want to use it - for example, before the avr you can tailor different EDIDs for different devices.

After the avr and everything follows one profile.

I use it before the avr.

Although I appreciate a lot of people are buying these for this DV hack, honestly, that's the tip of the iceberg, particularly when you have connectivity issues as we all do from time to time...

Anyway - that's enough blowing smoke up HDFury's **s
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post #1263 of 1404 Old 03-22-2020, 02:51 PM
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1st. Thanks a lot Mark for answering my post. It's really appreciated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post

If you're impressed with a TV's Showroom Mode then you might enjoy it...
Huh ... ? I'm impressed with color accuracy NOT oversaturated colors. Are you saying that this method just make the colors pop without being necessarily accurate and faithful to the artistic intent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post

JVC's descriptions of colour profiles are always open to interpretation, so a colour space that is "close to the DCI standard" could mean anything.

So yes, import Manni's P3 profile and use that.

You don't absolutely have to use a custom curve - the 790 has much better HDR handling that earlier models
I will then use Manni's P3 profile. I presume that the profile will engage the DCI-P3 filter (as I desire)? Furthermore, if I use the gamma setting HDR (ST.2084), will it keep the filter in place? I ask this, because whenever the projector detects a HDR tag, it removes the filter (in order to gain more brightness), but I still want the filter in place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post

Personally I'd stick with SDR2020 from the Panny - set up right that will look stunning, but this hack is a very personal thing, so your opinion in your setup is king - suck it and see...
I hear you. I want to use the LLDV trick for streaming only.

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Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post

Sorry - X-Box - never had one ,
I was talking about the upcoming new X-Box ... Series X. Perhaps, someone on the forum can answer that question: Will the X Box Series X support LLDV player-led conversion?

Thanks
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post #1264 of 1404 Old 03-22-2020, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by vollans View Post
The easiest, and most flexible, is to put it between the AVR and the projector. That way it will work for all source, current and future.


This is the way I use it. In fact I use two connections from the AVR to the projector. One direct and the second via the Vertex 2. That way I can bypass the Vertex 2 when I need to. For some reason when I sent 4K SDR via the Vertex2 my projector somehow switches to HDR mode and the colors are wrong in that mode.
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post #1265 of 1404 Old 03-22-2020, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by tioneb View Post
1st. Thanks a lot Mark for answering my post. It's really appreciated.

Huh ... ? I'm impressed with color accuracy NOT oversaturated colors. Are you saying that this method just make the colors pop without being necessarily accurate and faithful to the artistic intent?
In a nutshell, yes. To be fair the Dolby algo is pretty good, but at the end of the day my opinion is stick with what the guy in post meant you to see - he spent a lot of time on it - with friends and colleagues at that corner of the business, it's something quite close to my heart.

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Originally Posted by tioneb View Post

I will then use Manni's P3 profile. I presume that the profile will engage the DCI-P3 filter (as I desire)? Furthermore, if I use the gamma setting HDR (ST.2084), will it keep the filter in place? I ask this, because whenever the projector detects a HDR tag, it removes the filter (in order to gain more brightness), but I still want the filter in place.
The colour profile is what decides on whether the filter is in place or not, not the gamma, so if you choose Manni's "Filter" rather than "No Filter" profiles you should be golden.

The PJ will only disengage the filter based on colour profile so worth checking which one it uses in HDR mode - mine is an earlier model with the borked "gamma D", so I override that totally using the Vertex and have my own custom gamma alongside a BT.2020 profile with filter engaged.

Again, something worth investigating, but if it's virgin territory for you, it's a mad can of worms to open - mind you, we all have a bit more time these days....

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post #1266 of 1404 Old 03-22-2020, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post
There's nothing out of range about that. Presumably you have HDCP set to 1.4 on the config page, but again, that's fine.

But that isn't a DV input signal, so the Dolby block from either a custom EDID or AutoMix should have no bearing.

When you said...



...How were you previously viewing DV and what changed?

Might be an idea to post your config file (CONFIG/VERTEX2 CONTROL/EXPORT CONFIG) and ask @HDfury to have a look at it...
I had checked the use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV just so I could confirm functionality. When I watch DV I typically check the custom string in automix without issue (I will snap a screenshot tomorrow). That being said it wasn’t until the firmware 50 update that I started to experiment. Whenever I create a DV block I get the “out of range” message.

I did a search on AVS and nothing came up. Google suggests to check HDMI cable and connections. I have already done the basics, but as you said, there is nothing out of range.

I will export my Vertex config. and post with the screenshot tomorrow AM. Thanks again!
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post #1267 of 1404 Old 03-22-2020, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post
In a nutshell, yes. To be fair the Dolby algo is pretty good, but at the end of the day my opinion is stick with what the guy in post meant you to see - he spent a lot of time on it
It’s debatable what that really means, when watching HDR material on a projector with 100 nits peak.

Personally I would say using a fixed custom curve is not necessary more “accurate”.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 03-22-2020 at 06:28 PM.
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post #1268 of 1404 Old 03-22-2020, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
I hope these links point to the current versions.

Options are listed in introduction date order. They are useful to those that don't want to create their own custom LLDV EDID or create their own color profile in their display device. Don't mix and match them.

1 - Custom Sony A1 LLDV EDID 5 in combination with Dominic's A1 custom color profile for JVC. This was the first solution that reduced the red tint we saw when using the A1 LLDV EDID 5. JVC projectors only.

JVC custom A1 color profile download Link:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...2&d=1581466297

Procedure for loading JVC custom color profile:
https://www3.jvckenwood.com/english/...e_en_v1_00.pdf


2 - Mark's custom BT2020 EDID in combination with BT2020 color profile in any display. This is a good option for those that don't want to mess with color profiles in your display. Every HDR display should include a BT2020 color proflle.

Custom BT2020 EDID download Link:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...2&d=1581851932


3 - Diva/Vertex2/Maestro Automix mode default DV data block with DCI-P3 primaries combined with a DCI-P3 color profile. This option provides the capability to customize the DV data block field values from the defaults if you have one of the new HDfury devices.

Manni's JVC-only custom DCI-P3 color profile download link for JVC models that don't have a built-in DCI-P3 profile:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...0&d=1506168265

Procedure for loading JVC custom color profile:
https://www3.jvckenwood.com/english/...e_en_v1_00.pdf


4 - Mark's custom DCI-P3 EDID in combination with a DCI-P3 color profile. This is a good option for those who have an older HDfury device but want to use a DCI-P3 color profile.

Download link:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...2&d=1584451347

I am going I little off this topic regarding edid’s. for normal hdr10 content or LLDV content that I would rather be sent out std HDR I usually use edid 11, is that a match with the jvc bt2020 profile or do I need another custom just like issues that have been mentioned in this post. Hopefully I have explained correctly but don’t know if I’m seeing things but watched coco last night and noticed some red tint or it could have the way it was meant to be displayed or the edid not matching jvc colour profile, advice needed


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post #1269 of 1404 Old 03-23-2020, 01:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
It’s debatable what that really means, when watching HDR material on a projector with 100 nits peak.

Personally I would say using a fixed custom curve is not necessary more “accurate”.
That's very true, and I've often thought the same about dynamic tone mapping since that's making decisions on the fly which were not necessarily graded in. Particularly since PQ is an absolute standard rather than being relative like HLG or LDR. (I know it's not as simple as that by the way )

Personally, I think applying, shall we say, a PQ "style" curve, then honing it in and calibrating is going to get you close, but this hobby is about preferences and messing with stuff that shouldn't be messed with so I think we all appreciate that there are many ways to skin a cat.

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post #1270 of 1404 Old 03-23-2020, 02:44 AM
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Originally Posted by johnnyboy632 View Post
I am going I little off this topic regarding edid’s. for normal hdr10 content or LLDV content that I would rather be sent out std HDR I usually use edid 11, is that a match with the jvc bt2020 profile or do I need another custom just like issues that have been mentioned in this post. Hopefully I have explained correctly but don’t know if I’m seeing things but watched coco last night and noticed some red tint or it could have the way it was meant to be displayed or the edid not matching jvc colour profile, advice needed


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EDID 11 does not include provision for LLDV, so if I understand you correctly and you're just using that, you're not triggering LLDV in the source.

The easiest option for you is Option 2 in @claw 's list above.

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post #1271 of 1404 Old 03-23-2020, 03:52 AM
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Dolby Vision, including HDR10 conversion w/ DTM on Projectors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post
EDID 11 does not include provision for LLDV, so if I understand you correctly and you're just using that, you're not triggering LLDV in the source.

The easiest option for you is Option 2 in @claw 's list above.

I have loaded your custom edid that is a match to the jvc bt2020 colour profile, but I have my Oppo set to trigger LLdv automatically but if I would rather watch LLdv content as regular HDR I can’t do that unless I use another edid that doesn’t trigger LLdv. My question is edid 11 bt2020 coordinates also a match with jvc bt2020 colour profile coordinates but just without the provision of LLdv? Or do I need another custom HDR edid to match the jvc profile. Hopefully I’ve explained a little better, cheers


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post #1272 of 1404 Old 03-23-2020, 03:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredstwofeet View Post
I had checked the use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV just so I could confirm functionality. When I watch DV I typically check the custom string in automix without issue (I will snap a screenshot tomorrow). That being said it wasn’t until the firmware 50 update that I started to experiment. Whenever I create a DV block I get the “out of range” message.

I did a search on AVS and nothing came up. Google suggests to check HDMI cable and connections. I have already done the basics, but as you said, there is nothing out of range.

I will export my Vertex config. and post with the screenshot tomorrow AM. Thanks again!

First thing that springs to mind is an EDID overflow which you can see in the config text file (edidoverflow) but that doesn't make sense with the custom EDID (unless of course you still have automix checked!) and I wouldn't have thought would result in an "out of range" message...

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post #1273 of 1404 Old 03-23-2020, 03:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyboy632 View Post
I have loaded your custom edid that is a match to the jvc bt2020 colour profile, but I have my Oppo set to trigger LLdv automatically but if I would rather watch LLdv content as regular HDR I can’t do that unless I use another edid that doesn’t trigger LLdv. My question is edid 11 bt2020 coordinates also a match with jvc bt2020 colour profile coordinates but just without the provision of LLdv? Or do I need another custom HDR edid to match the jvc profile. Hopefully I’ve explained a little better, cheers


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Right! I understand now - so yes, in that case, EDID 11 is the one to use - it supports HDR10, BT.2020, all sound etc...

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post #1274 of 1404 Old 03-23-2020, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post
Right! I understand now - so yes, in that case, EDID 11 is the one to use - it supports HDR10, BT.2020, all sound etc...

Awesome thanks heaps


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post #1275 of 1404 Old 03-24-2020, 11:12 AM
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How are you.. On my rs640 im currently using javs 1200nitv3 curve.. I know you have the same screen size and similar projector what curve are you using.. I might want to try a different one over the weekend..
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post #1276 of 1404 Old 03-24-2020, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by jorgebetancourt View Post
On my rs640 im currently using javs 1200nitv3 curve.. I know you have the same screen size and similar projector what curve are you using.. I might want to try a different one over the weekend..
Javs curves are fine-honed so there’s no reason to switch unless you had some issues when using LLDV (which tends to lower the overall brightness somewhat).

I’m using a 115” scope screen and need to switch curves depending on the aspect ratio, as the virtual screen size changes between 85” and 120” for CIH.
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Last edited by Dominic Chan; 03-24-2020 at 12:20 PM.
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post #1277 of 1404 Old 03-25-2020, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
See the recent post by claw:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-h...l#post59382698

You’d be using Option 2.
I'm still getting a red shift in dimmer scenes using CLAWs option #2 .

Is there a EDID to use or custom DV string that corrects the dim images and the red shift?

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post #1278 of 1404 Old 03-25-2020, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by TimHuey View Post
I'm still getting a red shift in dimmer scenes using CLAWs option #2 .

Is there a EDID to use or custom DV string that corrects the dim images and the red shift?
You can try the other options to see if they make a difference. Red tint only in the dim scenes is more likely a calibration issue; however, I certainly have seen variation of tint depending on the saturation.

Last edited by Dominic Chan; 03-25-2020 at 07:04 PM.
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post #1279 of 1404 Old 03-26-2020, 02:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
You can try the other options to see if they make a difference. Red tint only in the dim scenes is more likely a calibration issue; however, I certainly have seen variation of tint depending on the saturation.
Agreed - if you're matching your colour profile in the projector to the colour space of the EDID and the gamma in the projector to max light level in the EDID (in this case 1000nits) then I'd say that's a calibration issue too.

I'd expect to see tint errors on A/B comparisons because of the way IPT handles hue vs BT.2020 regardless of matching the primaries, but subjectively, without comparison to a control, you wouldn't expect to notice in day to day viewing.

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Great thread and big thanks to @Dominic Chan , @markswift2003 , and @jorgebetancourt for helping me get the DV dialed in.
I have been a pain with about 1/2 million questions, being an extreme noob and all. I do have one question, and I will search the thread,
but watching Suicide squad tonight, I had quite a few digital glitches, like a flicker while watching. It has not happened before getting the DIVA and activating DV. Does this have something to do with a particular setting for this flicker? It is like a black and white strip towards the bottom of the screen, and it just like flickers for a second. Any ideas on what I should do? Thanks Russ
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post #1281 of 1404 Old 03-27-2020, 01:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lizrussspike View Post
Great thread and big thanks to @Dominic Chan , @markswift2003 , and @jorgebetancourt for helping me get the DV dialed in.
I have been a pain with about 1/2 million questions, being an extreme noob and all. I do have one question, and I will search the thread,
but watching Suicide squad tonight, I had quite a few digital glitches, like a flicker while watching. It has not happened before getting the DIVA and activating DV. Does this have something to do with a particular setting for this flicker? It is like a black and white strip towards the bottom of the screen, and it just like flickers for a second. Any ideas on what I should do? Thanks Russ
Can't see it having anything to do with the Diva itself - there's no extra processing going on anywhere, no messing with the video stream - it's just a change in parameters from the player.

Can't remember if you put the Diva between the source and amp or between the amp and projector? And are you using Premium Certified HDMI cables?

I don't subscribe to all the voodoo nonsense surrounding uber expensive cables, but I do know from personal experience, even at 4K23, Premium Certified cables can make a difference and particularly when adding an extra device in line.

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post #1282 of 1404 Old 03-27-2020, 02:39 AM
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Guys,

We need before/after pictures of this EDID hack with HDR10 and DV content, preferably from discs.

I've been reading this thread and the thread over at avforums but cannot seem to find a sensible post with comparisons.

Cut to the chase, please.

I think this is quite a big deal if you can get away with the older JVC models for example.

Thanks for addressing my concern/wish.
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post #1283 of 1404 Old 03-27-2020, 03:40 AM
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Guys,

We need before/after pictures of this EDID hack with HDR10 and DV content, preferably from discs.

I've been reading this thread and the thread over at avforums but cannot seem to find a sensible post with comparisons.

Cut to the chase, please.

I think this is quite a big deal if you can get away with the older JVC models for example.

Thanks for addressing my concern/wish.
There are plenty of extremely good image comparisons taken with constant exposure and aperture further back in the thread from @Dominic Chan

Zidoo Z9S | Nvidia Shield Pro | HDFury Vertex² | 32TB mirrored storage
Denon AVC-X8500H | JVC DLA X7000 | Screen Research 9ft multi aspect ClearPix 2 ISF screen
3 x PMC IB2S fronts | 4 x PMC Wafer 2 rears | 4 x PMC Wafer 1 ceiling | 2 x M&K SS550 THX height | Rel Stentor III
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post #1284 of 1404 Old 03-27-2020, 04:55 AM
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Thanks for chiming in @markswift2003 . After the post and a few barley pops, I thought to myself, self this is only happening on the appletv 4K, as it does not happen with 4K stuff on the Panny 820 or the Oppo203 with my RUIPRO cable for over 2 years. I never has that issue either with my old HDFURY Linker....so I went on Amazon and ordered a premium certified cable that I have with my other equipment. So once those arrive, I will be able to troubleshoot this down to a cable issue. That made the most beer sense to me, since that is the newest addition. I have the DIVA right next to the projector. So between the Denon X4200 and the RS420. Stay in. stay safe, and watch movies!!
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post #1285 of 1404 Old 03-27-2020, 05:29 AM
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Thanks for chiming in @markswift2003 . After the post and a few barley pops, I thought to myself, self this is only happening on the appletv 4K, as it does not happen with 4K stuff on the Panny 820 or the Oppo203 with my RUIPRO cable for over 2 years. I never has that issue either with my old HDFURY Linker....so I went on Amazon and ordered a premium certified cable that I have with my other equipment. So once those arrive, I will be able to troubleshoot this down to a cable issue. That made the most beer sense to me, since that is the newest addition. I have the DIVA right next to the projector. So between the Denon X4200 and the RS420. Stay in. stay safe, and watch movies!!
Beer sense! Russ, you crack me up

Also worth trying the Diva before the amp as a test.
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Zidoo Z9S | Nvidia Shield Pro | HDFury Vertex² | 32TB mirrored storage
Denon AVC-X8500H | JVC DLA X7000 | Screen Research 9ft multi aspect ClearPix 2 ISF screen
3 x PMC IB2S fronts | 4 x PMC Wafer 2 rears | 4 x PMC Wafer 1 ceiling | 2 x M&K SS550 THX height | Rel Stentor III
A pair of slippers, a comfy sofa and a glass of 16 year old single malt
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post #1286 of 1404 Old 03-27-2020, 06:02 AM
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There are plenty of extremely good image comparisons taken with constant exposure and aperture further back in the thread from Dominic Chan
Would you mind linking to these posts?

I'm on a cellphone, pretty much impossible to navigate.

Thanks.
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post #1287 of 1404 Old 03-27-2020, 06:05 AM
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Yes Sir @markswift2003 , was thinking about that this morning, as the rain moves in this weekend, it might be worth a shot, and then I could have the Oppo and the Panny have their own inputs for just 4K HDR....I need to study on that, since the zombie teenagers won't be out of that room for another 3-4 hours I am sure. Thank God I have a wife and 3 daughters.....
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post #1288 of 1404 Old 03-27-2020, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Vitus4K View Post
Would you mind linking to these posts?

I'm on a cellphone, pretty much impossible to navigate.

Thanks.
Maybe PM Dominic?

Zidoo Z9S | Nvidia Shield Pro | HDFury Vertex² | 32TB mirrored storage
Denon AVC-X8500H | JVC DLA X7000 | Screen Research 9ft multi aspect ClearPix 2 ISF screen
3 x PMC IB2S fronts | 4 x PMC Wafer 2 rears | 4 x PMC Wafer 1 ceiling | 2 x M&K SS550 THX height | Rel Stentor III
A pair of slippers, a comfy sofa and a glass of 16 year old single malt
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post #1289 of 1404 Old 03-27-2020, 07:09 AM
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Maybe PM Dominic?
Clever, there!
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post #1290 of 1404 Old 03-27-2020, 08:18 AM
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Clever, there!

Zidoo Z9S | Nvidia Shield Pro | HDFury Vertex² | 32TB mirrored storage
Denon AVC-X8500H | JVC DLA X7000 | Screen Research 9ft multi aspect ClearPix 2 ISF screen
3 x PMC IB2S fronts | 4 x PMC Wafer 2 rears | 4 x PMC Wafer 1 ceiling | 2 x M&K SS550 THX height | Rel Stentor III
A pair of slippers, a comfy sofa and a glass of 16 year old single malt
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