Dolby Vision, including HDR10 conversion w/ DTM on Projectors? - Page 58 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1711 of 2220 Old 05-03-2020, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Evans View Post
Hi,
will this method/procedure work on my Samsung QLED q80r to enable dv on it? If so is there anything that i need to do different in the guide?
Yes. But as HDfury just posted... Make sure you have enabled "Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV" under HDR TAB in webserver.

You need to make the Samsung believe it is receiving HDR10. That's what the custom HDR metadata is for.

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post #1712 of 2220 Old 05-03-2020, 08:16 PM
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Has anyone tried this method to go from HDR10+ to DV?
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post #1713 of 2220 Old 05-03-2020, 08:17 PM
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Maestro -- How To...

I have read so many pages in this and the maestro forum - but I am more confused than ever.
There are great screen shots on the first page of this thread for the vertex - but none that I can find for the Maestro.

Here's my set up:
Fire TV Cube ---> Maestro --> TX 0: LG C9
Maestro RX --> TX: 0 Epson 5050UB Projector.

I have tried every combo of selections I can think of -- and am nowhere!
Would somebody be so kind as to post TX and RX screenshots of what I should do to:
a) Get the highest quality DV on my LG C9 and
b) Get the best PQ possible on the Epson.

So many of you obviously understand this stuff way better than I. A real "how to" would be so appreciated.

s.
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post #1714 of 2220 Old 05-03-2020, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shervinf View Post
Has anyone tried this method to go from HDR10+ to DV?
Not possible. The conversion to Dolby Vision and then to LLDV is only possible with HDR10 and SDR content. Dolby Labs provided a software development kit that players can use to perform the conversion from HDR10 or SDR to Dolby Vision.

There is no equivalent for HDR10+. Maybe someday if Dolby thinks it is worthwhile.

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Last edited by claw; 05-03-2020 at 11:41 PM.
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post #1715 of 2220 Old 05-04-2020, 04:08 AM
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Ok i figure it out before seeing reply! I check use custom HDR when LLDV and the color seems good. Will need to watch and test but seems good! Many thanks to all!
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Last edited by alexbolduc; 05-04-2020 at 04:13 AM.
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post #1716 of 2220 Old 05-04-2020, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Evans View Post
Hi,
will this method/procedure work on my Samsung QLED q80r to enable dv on it? If so is there anything that i need to do different in the guide?
It will work to add support for DV content on ANY HDR10 display. so as long as your Q80R is HDR capable, it will work.

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post #1717 of 2220 Old 05-04-2020, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skavan View Post
I have read so many pages in this and the maestro forum - but I am more confused than ever.
There are great screen shots on the first page of this thread for the vertex - but none that I can find for the Maestro.

Here's my set up:
Fire TV Cube ---> Maestro --> TX 0: LG C9
Maestro RX --> TX: 0 Epson 5050UB Projector.

I have tried every combo of selections I can think of -- and am nowhere!
Would somebody be so kind as to post TX and RX screenshots of what I should do to:
a) Get the highest quality DV on my LG C9 and
b) Get the best PQ possible on the Epson.

So many of you obviously understand this stuff way better than I. A real "how to" would be so appreciated.

s.
It is exactly the same process, except that you set DV custom string on TX unit and your HDR injection on RX unit.
this way TX unit get LLDV from your capable source, send it as it is to C9 at TX unit TX0 output and then the second stream copy going to RX will be dealt as HDR10 since you have checked "Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV" under HDR TAB on RX unit.

So it's really exactly the same setup than Vertex2 or Diva.

If you have a HDR10 display at TX unit output, then you would set "Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV" on TX unit but since you have it a RX unit output, then you have to set it on RX unit.

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post #1718 of 2220 Old 05-04-2020, 09:24 AM
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This looks like a good solution for 2016 LG OLED which doesn't support LLDV and supports DV up to 30Hz. On the Xbox One X DV is now selectable and on the NVIDIA Shield you can select DV at 60Hz. Question for those who have tried it for longer, how does the DV picture using the LLDV EDID compare to native DV on the 2016 LG OLED? For example an OPPO 203 plays DV movies fine and can convert HDR to DV natively. For OPPO 203 is there any picture quality difference between doing that directly or changing the EDID to support LLDV and then watching DV discs or converting to DV?
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post #1719 of 2220 Old 05-04-2020, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
It is exactly the same process, except that you set DV custom string on TX unit and your HDR injection on RX unit.
this way TX unit get LLDV from your capable source, send it as it is to C9 at TX unit TX0 output and then the second stream copy going to RX will be dealt as HDR10 since you have checked "Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV" under HDR TAB on RX unit.
I am too ignorant to decode all your instructions. So - let me go slow.

1. On the TX:
EDID PAGE: I am using automix. I selected CUSTOM DV STRING. Not sure this is correct. I didn't load any edid tables. Nor did I touch anything in the TX HDR/AVI or DV tabs.

2. On the RX:
EDID PAGE: also set to AUTOMIX. DV Flags: Custom String is not checked. No idea if this is right.
HDR/DV Page: Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV is checked.

No idea if I should be filling anything else in. Is that it? I'm sure not - perhaps you can fix my ignorance.

s.
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post #1720 of 2220 Old 05-04-2020, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by skavan View Post
I am too ignorant to decode all your instructions. So - let me go slow.

1. On the TX:
EDID PAGE: I am using automix. I selected CUSTOM DV STRING. Not sure this is correct. I didn't load any edid tables. Nor did I touch anything in the TX HDR/AVI or DV tabs.

2. On the RX:
EDID PAGE: also set to AUTOMIX. DV Flags: Custom String is not checked. No idea if this is right.
HDR/DV Page: Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV is checked.

No idea if I should be filling anything else in. Is that it? I'm sure not - perhaps you can fix my ignorance.

s.
I cannot answer on RX edid mode yet, because that depends what you have connected at RX output, i also don't know your setup description, so i'm answering blind here.
There might be some settings to adjust, i suggest you use Maestro thread if you want us to check if your settings are correct for your setup first and then yes, you just have to set HDR injection on RX unit as you wrote and DV custom string on TX unit.
What are the results presently when you set as you wrote it ?

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post #1721 of 2220 Old 05-04-2020, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
I cannot answer on RX edid mode yet, because that depends what you have connected at RX output, i also don't know your setup description, so i'm answering blind here.
There might be some settings to adjust, i suggest you use Maestro thread if you want us to check if your settings are correct for your setup first and then yes, you just have to set HDR injection on RX unit as you wrote and DV custom string on TX unit.
What are the results presently when you set as you wrote it ?
1. On the TX I have an LG C9.
2. On the RX I have an Epson 5050UB

When you say:
Quote:
you just have to set HDR injection on RX unit as you wrote and DV custom string on TX unit.
Do I need to create anything on the TX DV tab, or is that all done automagically? I didn't write a custom string (and don't know how to!). On the TX - I just set the flag in automix. Is that enough?

Will do testing tonight, when I can actually see my projector screen properly!

s.
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post #1722 of 2220 Old 05-04-2020, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skavan View Post
1. On the TX I have an LG C9.
2. On the RX I have an Epson 5050UB

When you say:
Do I need to create anything on the TX DV tab, or is that all done automagically? I didn't write a custom string (and don't know how to!). On the TX - I just set the flag in automix. Is that enough?

Will do testing tonight, when I can actually see my projector screen properly!

s.
No AVR or anything else any output ? if so yes, nothing else to do.

The default DV string is SONY A1, you more likely will need to adjust min/max LUM for your PJ, you can browse history of this thread to find what people using similar PJ are setting or just make your own opinion/preference by playing with it.
the problem is by doing that, you might alter DV picture for the DV display at TX output, so more likely you will need to do a trade off if you want both running at the same time, if you don't need both at the same time, then just change edid mode when using DV TV only.

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post #1723 of 2220 Old 05-04-2020, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
For more information and description of how the Macros work in Automatic, Semi-Automatic, and Custom, especially for HDR10, refer to these two posts from Manni. The second post reflects updates made to the macros.
Thanks.

Looks like the Semi-Automatic mode is just as automatic, once the CUSTOM HDR10 PROFILES are filled out.

EDIT: Seems to me that Automatic can be eliminated as a separate mode, by using the corresponding test conditions as default under CUSTOM. Semi-Automatic can then be renamed Automatic.

This will free up some memory for implementing other improvements.

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Last edited by Dominic Chan; 05-04-2020 at 05:35 PM.
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post #1724 of 2220 Old 05-04-2020, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Thanks.

Looks like the Semi-Automatic mode is just as automatic, once the CUSTOM HDR10 PROFILES are filled out.

EDIT: Seems to me that Automatic can be eliminated as a separate mode, by using the corresponding test conditions as default under CUSTOM. Semi-Automatic can then be renamed Automatic.

This will free up some memory for implementing other improvements.
Dominic,

I have been able to set this up with my Vertex, Apple TV, Panasonic 820, and my JVC RS500. In my set-up, I still find it a little too dark overall (bright scenes are awesome but middle/ dark are a little too dark). I tried for a long Time to do a custom curve and gave up (Arve’s tool). I could not get it too work. So, I have been trying other people’s curves. Currently, I am using Javs 85 nit curve (from your latest file - Thank you At bc.005). For Netflix, VUDU, etc on HDR10 it is just bright enough but not as good as the SDR BT2020 on a disc from the Panasonic tone mapping (for me at +4 and high lamp I get good brightness). If I have a choice, I wait for the disc to play on the Panny.

So, I see you have some brighter curves than Javs85. Are these recommended for RS500 (say 60 nit - What do you mean by the black compensation?). Also, I see you have .conf file curves. What are these? I know that I can only upload .jgd curves. I would like to try the .conf curves. Lastly, what is the difference between black compensation .002 and .005?

I would love to use this DM DV but need it just a tad brighter for my set up. . Sorry for all the questions and thanks in advance.
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post #1725 of 2220 Old 05-04-2020, 05:52 PM
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So, I see you have some brighter curves than Javs85. Are these recommended for RS500 (say 60 nit - What do you mean by the black compensation?). Also, I see you have .conf file curves. What are these? I know that I can only upload .jgd curves. I would like to try the .conf curves. Lastly, what is the difference between black compensation .002 and .005?

I would love to use this DM DV but need it just a tad brighter for my set up. . Sorry for all the questions and thanks in advance.
If you prefer brighter DV, the easiest way is to select a lower Max Luminance in the custom DV string, such as 500 nits (default is 1000 nits).

Alternatively, you can just try the 60 nits curves instead of the 85 nits curves. 0.002 and 0.005 corresponds to the black level; the latter provides more boost in the low end. They are already available in .jgd format.

The .conf file can be loaded using Arve's Tool.

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Last edited by Dominic Chan; 05-04-2020 at 06:15 PM.
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post #1726 of 2220 Old 05-04-2020, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Thanks.

Looks like the Semi-Automatic mode is just as automatic, once the CUSTOM HDR10 PROFILES are filled out.

EDIT: Seems to me that Automatic can be eliminated as a separate mode, by using the corresponding test conditions as default under CUSTOM. Semi-Automatic can then be renamed Automatic.

This will free up some memory for implementing other improvements.
Please report to Manni if you think something must be changed, macro page on all our devices is fully under his supervision since he is the one behind it and we won't change anything until he confirms the change.

I think by just using @Manni he will check it.

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post #1727 of 2220 Old 05-04-2020, 06:31 PM
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Please report to Manni if you think something must be changed, macro page on all our devices is fully under his supervision since he is the one behind it and we won't change anything until he confirms the change.
It doesn’t need to be changed. I just thought that the change could possibly free up some memory, while simplifying the user interface at the same time.

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post #1728 of 2220 Old 05-04-2020, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Thanks.

Looks like the Semi-Automatic mode is just as automatic, once the CUSTOM HDR10 PROFILES are filled out.

EDIT: Seems to me that Automatic can be eliminated as a separate mode, by using the corresponding test conditions as default under CUSTOM. Semi-Automatic can then be renamed Automatic.

This will free up some memory for implementing other improvements.
No. Because some of us never use any Custom HDR10 test conditions; all are set to do nothing. We just use the Automatic HDR10 DC4K and DC1K macros. I don't want to have to enter User Modes for all the MaxDML and MaxCLL tests in the custom Profiles when I don't need to.

The Custom Profiles will generate too many questions from new users as to how they should be set. They were meant for advanced users.

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Last edited by claw; 05-04-2020 at 06:55 PM.
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post #1729 of 2220 Old 05-04-2020, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
No. Because some of us never use any Custom HDR10 test conditions; all are set to do nothing. We just use the Automatic HDR10 DC4K and DC1K macros. I don't want to have to enter User Modes for all the MaxDML and MaxCLL tests in the custom Profiles when I don't need to.

The Custom Profiles will generate too many questions from new users as to how they should be set. They were meant for advanced users.
I agree with you that the current Automatic mode (for HDR10 DC4K and DC1K) works well for most users. However, the underlying rules for selection are hard-coded in the firmware and not displayed in the UI.

My suggestion does not change the behaviour - the test conditions will be the new default values for the Custom test conditions, so the user still won’t need to enter them. The advantages are that the rules will be explicitly shown in the UI, and it will also eliminate the need for the Semi-Automatic and Custom modes.

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Last edited by Dominic Chan; 05-05-2020 at 04:18 AM.
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post #1730 of 2220 Old 05-04-2020, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
No AVR or anything else any output ? if so yes, nothing else to do.

The default DV string is SONY A1, you more likely will need to adjust min/max LUM for your PJ, you can browse history of this thread to find what people using similar PJ are setting or just make your own opinion/preference by playing with it.
the problem is by doing that, you might alter DV picture for the DV display at TX output, so more likely you will need to do a trade off if you want both running at the same time, if you don't need both at the same time, then just change edid mode when using DV TV only.
Almost working -- only glitch is that if both displays are on, the fire tv (cube) switches to 1080P with 4K DV Content.
I can LLDV is going to the LG and HDR is going to the projector...
Any ideas on how to resolve this?

s.
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post #1731 of 2220 Old 05-05-2020, 04:13 AM
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Is there any other setting I need to change on a DIVA/VERTEX2 to get this to work properly on a LG C6? I tried the Sony EDID and when I put a DV disc into the OPPO 203 the screen would flicker like it was going into DV mode but would come back out in normal colour space with dull/dark colours. I tried the player led DV setting on the OPPO and I just got black screen though audio was working fine. Trying automix with DV force LLDV also caused black screen.
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post #1732 of 2220 Old 05-05-2020, 04:27 AM
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Is there any other setting I need to change on a DIVA/VERTEX2 to get this to work properly on a LG C6? I tried the Sony EDID and when I put a DV disc into the OPPO 203 the screen would flicker like it was going into DV mode but would come back out in normal colour space with dull/dark colours. I tried the player led DV setting on the OPPO and I just got black screen though audio was working fine. Trying automix with DV force LLDV also caused black screen.
Sound like cable issue, try to force player to output in 4K24 and not 4K60, then it should work with your current cable, or just replace by kabledirekt min 6ft/max12ft and you will be fine.
If problem after new cable or with 4K24 send config export and setup description. (better use Device thread then, since its not related to this thread topic)

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post #1733 of 2220 Old 05-05-2020, 04:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skavan View Post
Almost working -- only glitch is that if both displays are on, the fire tv (cube) switches to 1080P with 4K DV Content.
I can LLDV is going to the LG and HDR is going to the projector...
Any ideas on how to resolve this?

s.
Use device thread and post your config when you have that please

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post #1734 of 2220 Old 05-05-2020, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
Sound like cable issue, try to force player to output in 4K24 and not 4K60, then it should work with your current cable, or just replace by kabledirekt min 6ft/max12ft and you will be fine.
If problem after new cable or with 4K24 send config export and setup description. (better use Device thread then, since its not related to this thread topic)

I'll try another cable. Cable issue seems odd though as I tested with 6ft HDMI 2.1 cables and HDFURY cables and got the same result. Do I need to be ticking anything in the HDR/DV tab?
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post #1735 of 2220 Old 05-05-2020, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n00b2 View Post
I'll try another cable. Cable issue seems odd though as I tested with 6ft HDMI 2.1 cables and HDFURY cables and got the same result. Do I need to be ticking anything in the HDR/DV tab?
If you have HDR/DV tab together, you are running an outdated firmware or you haven't refreshed your browser or cleared its cache files, new firmware have 2 separate TAB for HDR and DV.
Yes, you need to tick "Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV" under HDR tab, however that seems not related to what you are reporting, so please use device thread and post config so we can look at it.
2.1 cable does not exist, that's marketing BS, proof is many "48Gbps certified" cable just fail for 18Gbps.

Basically, if 4K HDR works and DV60 fails that's cable issue, since 4K HDR is usually 4K60 420 10b = 375MHz and DV60 is usually 600MHz/18Gbps (4K60 422 12b or 4K60 444 8b) unless you force source to send 24Hz content.

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Last edited by HDfury; 05-05-2020 at 07:12 AM.
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post #1736 of 2220 Old 05-05-2020, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markswift2003 View Post
Basically yes - it fools the source into thinking the monitor is DV capable - just check:

1. You are using Custom, not Automix on the EDID tab

2. You have uploaded the custom EDID into Table #: 10 - Custom#10

3. The Shield is attached to the input which has 10 - Custom Default EDID #10 selected.


As long as the Shield is connected to an input on the Vertex to which the custom EDID is assigned, the Shield should ask if you want to enable DV.

If it doesn't ask you can go into display settings and activate from there.

I have the Shield so can confirm that this works.
I sorted this out... I did not realize my older Shield does not support DV. But, I did get everything working with my UB820! I have two more questions...


1 - To get everything working, I had to check "Use custom HDR... input LLDV" in the HDR tab as per here. I'm wondering if I need to follow any other of these instructions if using the BT2020 EDID? e.g. setting peak luminance, etc? I've got this connected to my Panasonic OLED panel, not a projector.


2 - Are the EDIDs that have been posted, specifically the BT2020 EDID, compatible with the older Vertex 4k60?


Thanks!

Last edited by mbalders; 05-05-2020 at 09:05 AM.
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post #1737 of 2220 Old 05-05-2020, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfury View Post
If you have HDR/DV tab together, you are running an outdated firmware or you haven't refreshed your browser or cleared its cache files, new firmware have 2 separate TAB for HDR and DV.
Yes, you need to tick "Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV" under HDR tab, however that seems not related to what you are reporting, so please use device thread and post config so we can look at it.
2.1 cable does not exist, that's marketing BS, proof is many "48Gbps certified" cable just fail for 18Gbps.

Basically, if 4K HDR works and DV60 fails that's cable issue, since 4K HDR is usually 4K60 420 10b = 375MHz and DV60 is usually 600MHz/18Gbps (4K60 422 12b or 4K60 444 8b) unless you force source to send 24Hz content.

I unplugged and restarted everything and the black screen issue has gone away. Though DV/HDR is still not showing up when I try to play something as LLDV. I'll update the FW and play around with the HDR and DV settings and report back in the HDFURY thread if I am having more issues.
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post #1738 of 2220 Old 05-05-2020, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbalders View Post
I sorted this out... I did not realize my older Shield does not support DV. But, I did get everything working with my UB820! I have two more questions...


1 - To get everything working, I had to check "Use custom HDR... input LLDV" in the HDR tab as per here. I'm wondering if I need to follow any other of these instructions if using the BT2020 EDID? e.g. setting peak luminance, etc? I've got this connected to my Panasonic OLED panel, not a projector.


2 - Are the EDIDs that have been posted, specifically the BT2020 EDID, compatible with the older Vertex 4k60?


Thanks!
Haha - I nearly asked if you had the Shield Pro but thought, nah, he must have

1. You need to tell the Panny that it's receiving HDR, so yes, tick "Use custom HDR for TX0 and TX1 when input is LLDV" and set:

EOTF - SMPTE ST 2084
Primaries - ITU-R BT 2020-2
WP - D65
Max Luminance - 1000
Min Luminance - 0.001
MaxCLL - 1000
MaxFALL - 400
(this is not specified in the Dolby VSVD block, so 400 seems fair)

in the Custom HDR Metadata Creator.

2. Do you mean the original Vertex? If so, yes, they are compatible.
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post #1739 of 2220 Old 05-05-2020, 09:18 PM
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I cannot see any difference between LLDV -> HDR10 and HDR10 -> HDR10.

My test platform and method

1. Phantom M9702 * -> INTEGRA DRC-R1.1 (HDMI MAIN out) -> HDFURY vertex2 (SONY A1 LLDV EDID) -> JVC X590R HDMI1 (Dominic's A1 custom color profile for JVC)

2. Phantom M9702 * -> INTEGRA DRC-R1.1 (HDMI SUB out) -> JVC X590R HDMI2 (default HDR color profile)

DV video "playback" or "pause" screen, switches between 1. (Integra main + JVC HDMI1) (LLDV to HDR10) and 2. (Integra sub + JVC HDMI2) (HDR10 to HDR10) Compare the two sets of images, I can't see any difference.

* Phantom M9702, HDR auto / Dolby Vision player led, OPPO 203 like product

* DV videos use BDMV rip of DV UHD BD or DV Demo clips from internet

* Also uses Apple TV 4K to play Apple TV plus's or Netflix's Dolby Vision streaming
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post #1740 of 2220 Old 05-06-2020, 01:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post
I also came across the Xbox One reference in my DV LLDV search. Having a Xbox One, I jumped right into the test, but soon discovered the it was the 4k versions.

I'm also interested in hearing about any tests with the compatible Xbox models.

I'd welcome anyone in my area (Philly) to visit for a test on my system.


Hi, I have Xbox One X and I tried it with my Integral2,

Integral2> EDID Sony A1LLD>(Top drop down menu) BT2020> Display is Sony 4K HDR 2015 model.

Seriously I did not notice much difference between HDR10 and Dolby Vision.
Or maybe I am doing something wrong or my Old Model of HDR has not that soul to produce DV magic.
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