Coronavirus & Economics: Effect on Our Home Theater & Audio Hobbies? - Page 14 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #391 of 1271 Old 03-29-2020, 02:54 PM
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[QUOTE=
As an aside, the VA has not been very good regarding in house veteran health care - talk about severe rationing and unavailability. Congress opened this up so veterans can get private health care much improving the situation. My first cousin was a Case Manager for Tri-West, managing military healthcare, for many years. We have discussed this in detail.[/QUOTE]

I guess that depends on what location you live in. I go to our local VA clinic for routine attention and there is the best of care in our Madison WI VA, in conjunction with UW Health. I have been to the Madison Hospital with best of treatment. Wisconsin looks out for its VETS! Also, private healthcare is available and see it in use at our local hospital. Those that live outside the miles radius of VA care...long story short, they can go to civilian clinics/hospitals.

Maybe in your region, it may not be as good??? Remember WASH YOUR HANDS!
O, have FAITH......it will get better.
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post #392 of 1271 Old 03-29-2020, 03:13 PM
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post #393 of 1271 Old 03-29-2020, 04:01 PM
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It's already sideways. If anyone dims the spotlight, it's... "You're fired".

Sideways?


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post #394 of 1271 Old 03-29-2020, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
Yes but no one is getting sick again. There’s nothing you can find that a person that recovered is again sick. In my opinion, a person that has recovered will still be exposed to the virus but is immune meaning he can’t get sick from it. Perhaps they can still test positive if they’ve been exposed. Let’s say more virus enters his cells but his body quickly fights it off before he gets sick because he now has antibodies for the virus in his blood. Should still be possible to test positive and not be otherwise affected. Also in the article you posted, he just was cleared of the virus on March 20 so it’s possible that he wasn’t fully cleared and the test (which is not 100%) was a false negative on March 20th. This is what most doctors seem to speculate on these scenarios.
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post #395 of 1271 Old 03-29-2020, 04:58 PM
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If that's strictly true, why don't we enter lock down at the start of every flu season? The 2017-2018 flu season resulted in 60k+ deaths in the USA alone. If we shut down the global economy annually we could save millions of people per decade.

The economic/social damage of shutdown has apparently been calculated to be worth more than 60,000 americans.

I'm not saying I find fault with this shutdown, or "flattening the curve" to lower the load on health care systems to improve patient outcomes, I just think anyone in a position of power claiming nobody would ever prioritize the economy over human life is being quite disingenuous with us.

That said, ending the lockdown in April in North America would seem to be the worst of all options, having not significantly slowed the spread yet, but having already had a profound economic and social impact.
Because the flu doesn’t overflow the hospital system 10 fold in a month. The flu doesn’t transmit silently and quadruple infection rate every week and the flu doesn’t put 1 out of every 5 in the hospital. The flu does have a vaccine and a treatment.

People are mistakenly focused on death rates comparing to flu and car accidents. The problem here is the transmission rate and hospitalization rates.
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post #396 of 1271 Old 03-29-2020, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by teetertotter View Post
I guess that depends on what location you live in. I go to our local VA clinic for routine attention and there is the best of care in our Madison WI VA, in conjunction with UW Health. I have been to the Madison Hospital with best of treatment. Wisconsin looks out for its VETS! Also, private healthcare is available and see it in use at our local hospital. Those that live outside the miles radius of VA care...long story short, they can go to civilian clinics/hospitals.

Maybe in your region, it may not be as good??? Remember WASH YOUR HANDS!
O, have FAITH......it will get better.
Agreed, 25 yr Air Force Vet. I use both Tricare and my local VA here in Colorado Springs. My care is as good or better than civilian hospitals.



Before this latest emergency hit Congress was changing the rules and starting to tell us retirees that we could no longer use the military hospitals like Evans on Ft. Carson or Walter Reed or Tripler. If that continues the VA is going to see a massive increase in business. Congress is trying to push the retirees to civilian care paid for thru Tricare but they are going to find out that will be really expensive.
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post #397 of 1271 Old 03-29-2020, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
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From a fellow trial lawyer here is Arizona who posted this to our listserve:

Here is comprehensive modeling by Christopher Murray, MD, and relied upon by Deborah Brix, MD. I think it’s as good a "professional guess” as one could expect given all the "known unknowns.” It projects 81,000 deaths in the United States and that the virus will peak on April 14. Here in Arizona our peak is expected on April 19, and that the threat (from this wave, anyway) should dissipate by July 1, with about 1,700 deaths in Arizona.

https://covid19.healthdata.org/projections

Pray for all of our healthcare providers, food manufacturing and delivery workers, all of whom are doing their best at great risk to help us survive the current Covid-19 virus crisis.
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post #398 of 1271 Old 03-29-2020, 05:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Because the flu doesn’t overflow the hospital system 10 fold in a month. The flu doesn’t transmit silently and quadruple infection rate every week and the flu doesn’t put 1 out of every 5 in the hospital. The flu does have a vaccine and a treatment.

People are mistakenly focused on death rates comparing to flu and car accidents. The problem here is the transmission rate and hospitalization rates.
Without social distancing and restrictions/closing down of businesses and school we don't want to imagine the death rate and overloading of hospitals! A true nightmare!

Pray for all of our healthcare providers, food manufacturing and delivery workers, all of whom are doing their best at great risk to help us survive the current Covid-19 virus crisis.
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post #399 of 1271 Old 03-29-2020, 08:03 PM
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Don't know how you drew conclusion re: China, though plausible. Curious if Italians, French and Spaniards cheek pecking and culture of shopping daily for provisions also contributed to the pervasiveness. Interesting that Germany has yet to report large number of deaths due to cv.
There have been a few articles about smoking, both about what pulmonary specialists say a link would be like for any acute respiratory disease, as well as what has been observed in several countries. The diesel pollution theory is purely a theory that I based off of research I did a few years ago into diesel particulate matter (DPM) pollution. In the US it's typically only around highways, truck stops, and other places where there are a lot of trucks since we don't have many diesel cars, but in Europe, it's common on city streets and there is diesel soot everywhere.

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If this thing goes sideways, DJT is going to blame his VP and use this as an excuse to pick Nikki Haley (or someone else) as his VP candidate for 2020.
Yup. I think he stumbled and bumbled his way into a plan for 2020. Biden is going to pick a woman VP, and then Trump will announce Nikki Haley later that day. It's an attempt to reassure suburban women that he's not sexist/racist. Just like the focus on African Americans at SOTU, which wasn't about African Americans at all.

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People collectively are weird, some individuals are good, and logical. But taken as group people's intelligence seem to drop. This is just the latest chapter, but it's more dangerous during these times.
I'm concerned about humanity based on this crisis. There seems to be a significant chunk of the population that are #COVIDIOTS and not taking this serious, not social distancing, clogging up NYC parks, etc, but there is also a significant chunk of the population that has lost their minds and gone off the deep end with the irrational and sometimes bizarre hoarding, like the toilet paper apocalypse, which started in Australia and spread to the US via Twitter. Our connections aren't necessarily geographic anymore, but by language, with the US, UK, Canada, Australia, and NZ sharing some common cultural elements and weird stuff like the toilet paper thing.
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post #400 of 1271 Old 03-29-2020, 08:38 PM
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Because the flu doesn’t overflow the hospital system 10 fold in a month. The flu doesn’t transmit silently and quadruple infection rate every week and the flu doesn’t put 1 out of every 5 in the hospital. The flu does have a vaccine and a treatment.

People are mistakenly focused on death rates comparing to flu and car accidents. The problem here is the transmission rate and hospitalization rates.
I think we're having different arguments. I'm certainly not claiming the seasonal flu is anywhere near as deadly as COVID-19.

I'm saying that if "we" truly cared more about human life than the economy, we'd go through this kind of global shutdown procedure annually to save more of the millions of people the flu kills (over a much longer time period).

We don't though. There are preventable deaths we choose not to prevent. There's a line drawn... somewhere.

Personally, I'm quite worried that the US is going to move that line shortly, and the impact of that would be global.
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post #401 of 1271 Old 03-29-2020, 11:31 PM
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My point in saying that economy will recover but human lives lost can't and that they need to shut down businesses for now, is that we don't know the extent to which this can wreck havoc on the population if it spread uncontrollably. Stores and restaurants have a lot of foot traffic and if those were open for business, can you imagine how fast it would spread? Basically it would overload the medical system and quite possibly tenfold more people would die. That would be the best case scenario.

1) unlike the flu, there is no vaccine for it.
2) folks over age 65 are most vulnerable and at that age there is less to no chance of survival. Most everyone recovers from the flu
3) people with diabetes also have a low chance of survival. Flu is not lethal for them either
4) those undergoing chemotherapy probably have no chance against Corona virus

Based on 2017 consensus there are over 47 million people in the USA over 65

34 million of the people in USA have diabetes

About 650,000 people undergoing chemotherapy.

These are not small numbers. If even 10% of any of the elderly or diabetic got infected the results can be catastrophic.

How many forum members can absolutely positively say that they are not carrying the virus? How many members here are over 55? Over 65 is lethal but over 55 is still dangerous. Would you be willing to take the chance of catching it and hope to live through it? Or you think it's better complete social isolation is enforced upon all of us?

Do you really want to eat out when this virus is running loose? How can you trust the people you are interacting with that they are not passing it on to you. There would be so much suspicion and distrust around every single person you see. There are 10000 variables at play if social isolation is not enforced. They need to nip everything at the bud. This virus can wipe out a million plus people if not kept in check. You may think I'm exaggerating but history has shown prior pandemics wiping out 20+ million people. We live in a time where medicine is more advanced but it's not advanced enough. We still don't have a cure for many viruses and the vaccine for this one is still at least 1-1.5 years away if they can make one that is.

And the thing with money being the most important. I was not comparing it to relationships or family. Those are always first and foremost. Even before God for me. But money is more important to have in hand than some of the things that we buy that only depreciate the moment we leave the store with them. Time killing and enjoyment factor aside. I mean if you need to pay bills and mortgage and rent then money is the only thing that will get you through that. Especially medical bills.

God protect us all. Be safe. Don't take any chances. I hope to see you all through this so we can continue to share our hobbies and interests for a long long time.
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post #402 of 1271 Old 03-29-2020, 11:49 PM
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From CDC's website

"Based upon available information to date, those at high-risk for severe illness from COVID-19 include:

-People aged 65 years and older

-People who live in a nursing home or long-term care facility

-Other high-risk conditions could include:

>People with chronic lung disease or moderate to severe asthma (According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), 1 in 13 people have asthma. More than 25 million Americans have asthma. This is 7.7 percent of adults and 8.4 percent of children)

>People who have serious heart conditions (28+ million Americans)

>People who are immunocompromised including cancer treatment

>People of any age with severe obesity (body mass index [BMI] >40) or certain underlying medical conditions, particularly if not well controlled, such as those with diabetes, renal failure, or liver disease might also be at risk

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post #403 of 1271 Old 03-30-2020, 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by ManMower View Post
I think we're having different arguments. I'm certainly not claiming the seasonal flu is anywhere near as deadly as COVID-19.

I'm saying that if "we" truly cared more about human life than the economy, we'd go through this kind of global shutdown procedure annually to save more of the millions of people the flu kills (over a much longer time period).

We don't though. There are preventable deaths we choose not to prevent. There's a line drawn... somewhere.

Personally, I'm quite worried that the US is going to move that line shortly, and the impact of that would be global.
But my response to that was directly to your statement. We do not care more about human life. We care about overrunning the hospital system. The annual flu does not overrun the hospital system, therefore, nothing is done for it yearly. All these measures are purely about not overrunning the hospital system.

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post #404 of 1271 Old 03-30-2020, 02:47 AM
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Dreamwarrior I hope you feel better for your ramble and demonstrated superiority without even giving any info on the current crisis or frankly showing any care or concern. I hope the alcohol or whatever your taking is working for you! 😍😁😍
I was specifically trying not to demonstrate superiority. If you knew how much I've hated myself in the past, how much I've wanted to kill myself on more than one occasion in my life....maybe you'd know how not superior I am. I thought I tried to make that abundantly clear in the post...and failed. Maybe this one will do a better job letting you know how I really feel about myself.


About the only thing I know to be true about myself is that I test well. That's pretty much it. I don't know anything else. Am I a good person, no idea. A good father? Do my best. Husband? Very doubtful. Computer programmer -- well, unabashedly, yes...and everyone who felt like commenting on my performance in this regard throughout my life has generally said I'm pretty darn good at it. I believe that entitles me to declare myself "smart", right? I'm sorry if it was taken as it was. I even quantified it was "most people" which isn't "this forum" or "a poster" or even "you". I can't say something as simple as, "I objectively test better than most people in aptitude tests and that makes me statistically likely to be smarter than a person selected at random?" Sorry, but sufficiently quantified, my statement stands and I stand by it. If you want me to adjust it, we'll talk about....all the "dumbs" I've had in my life. It'll give you balance...and is precisely why I also said I don't consider myself above anyone else (but, I suppose that was just taken as some disingenuous humble bragging, right?). I will never win...getting my point across in text is not easy...certainly not without taking sufficient time to craft my thoughts with extreme precision. Something I, admittedly, failed to do in that post (and probably this one, and probably every one I have and will ever make as far as some person will be concerned).

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It is really nice to be in the company of such incredibly smart (and humble) people. May be the most incredible post I have read in the 19 years I have been on AVS. This is a good day!!
In the entire post, you latch on to that? Not even a few sentences around it could have avoided this? I mean, overall, I suppose I'll admit the post wasn't my best foot forward. But, it was honest...if not harsh, possibly terrible. My heart is in the right place, though...I think. Hell, I honestly don't know any more.



But, read above and see if you still think I believe myself superior; certainly "academically smart" (as, I believe, was quantified in the post) is about the best I'll give myself. And, even then only with subjects in which I immerse myself. And, even then I am only as good as the data I can acquire. Of course, thanks to the Internet I can acquire more at a slightly more rapid pace...I just can't always trust myself to have pulled in the right information. So, I bounce it off others and see what sticks. Sometimes I do that very poorly. And, sorry, but sometimes people just aren't capable of communicating with me...that's both our faults, I suppose. But, I only have so much time, and I have to ration it accordingly. This is...unfortunate?



That said, I can enumerate all the ways I'm stupid if you'd like. I know how dumb I am, believe me. My wife would tell you I can't even get myself around the block without her, and I'd agree (in jest, but it's not far from the truth). But, I know what I'm good at, too. I have always tested well, and I've barely studied for any of them. Heck, the singular test I can remember studying for in my entire life was an AP biology test...I had to memorize so much information. I tried so hard, but I had not the patience and I had so many other things I wanted to do instead (computers, lol). I believe I managed to eek out a low C, maybe high D, lol. I wish I remembered that professors name...I really liked him. Anyway, I was mad, but it was totally expected. In fact, part of me was proud I did as well as I did for the overall effort I put in...that and I believe the teacher curved it.


Regardless, I am "lazy", this I know. Mostly "lazy" simply because half the time I live in a dream-world so I don't have to face the real one and how terrible I believe I am at moving through it. If it weren't for my being good at my job, and now having a wife and kids, I'd probably be dead. About the only thing I work hard at is my job, when I am not distracted by learning anything else (including things on this forum because A/V is about the only other thing I love that isn't a human or computer).

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And, as was experienced in 1918, the mutated strain(s) was not as deadly.
Viruses don't "want" to kill their hosts...it's best "they" both survive. But, I do believe this was already mentioned while I was on my...hiatus. I just felt the need to repeat it: viruses don't "want" to kill us.


Actually, I suppose we can't be sure whether they "want" anything or not...and I don't know how we'd ever know; maybe they are sentient and we just can't figure out how to "talk" to them, lol -- so sci-fi.
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Originally Posted by Cyberathlete View Post
From CDC's website

"Based upon available information to date, those at high-risk for severe illness from COVID-19 include:

-People aged 65 years and older

-People who live in a nursing home or long-term care facility

-Other high-risk conditions could include:

>People with chronic lung disease or moderate to severe asthma (According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), 1 in 13 people have asthma. More than 25 million Americans have asthma. This is 7.7 percent of adults and 8.4 percent of children)

>People who have serious heart conditions (28+ million Americans)

>People who are immunocompromised including cancer treatment

>People of any age with severe obesity (body mass index [BMI] >40) or certain underlying medical conditions, particularly if not well controlled, such as those with diabetes, renal failure, or liver disease might also be at risk
That all sounds pretty...sensible. I don't know what else to say. I'm not sure I'd be safe, but...my personal risk analysis model is not everyone's. Besides, I suppose the socially correct thing to do right now is what we're doing. Plus, John Oliver's recent episode pretty put me over the edge. I get it! But, so do a lot of pros and they are doing their best to balance a crap health situation with a crap market situation. The health pros know the "only" solution is to put everyone in a bubble (the show said to freeze them in time for 14 days 6' apart). But, the crap market situation requires attention before a bunch of people (many elder, who, suckily enough, are kind of getting it at both ends -- more quickly depleting retirement accounts and higher risk of dying) don't end up "broke" despite their best efforts to be responsible.


Of course, if we keep this up, the "crap market" may just have no choice but to adjust itself -- we can help by "shuffling" stocks to companies who care. Maybe we can finally tell the world "we care more about our people than money" through money itself. Bets to what happens; I certainly don't know -- Musk says we need to be better at predicting the future, I'd say as crazy as it sounds, it'd never hurt.


I do know I'm (finally, after a long time of staying out) investing in the market. Plus, thanks to this forum and thread, I'll invest in companies who are making our life better right now. Hopefully it pans out and I can use the money I gain not only to help my family but to help build a concept I've been toying with in my head for a while to help shift the economy to a more "fair" and "open" system (and BTC would probably be a part, if not some crypto). If not, well, failure is just a learning experience for the next time.

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But my response to that was directly to your statement. We do not care more about human life. We care about overrunning the hospital system. The annual flu does not overrun the hospital system, therefore, nothing is done for it yearly. All these measures are purely about not overrunning the hospital system.
Don't we care about all of it? True, over-running the hospital hurts a lot of other people, too...like people that need it for something other than Corona virus (and who may have a more serious condition). But, if we had portable ventilators maybe we could send those people on their way home to recover (at an acceptable "social distance") without further medical attention (and possible risk to the medical health professions)? I don't know. But, the hospitals can't be on Corona duty all day, either! Nor can people be cooped up in their houses indefinitely without a breakdown of our social fabric and continuing decline of our market.



Honestly, though...we have lots of under-used hospitals right now...what's it cost to ship the sick to them? Or, are they lacking medical supplies, too?



This whole thing is messed up. It's such a massive mess of variables and trying to piece it all together hurts. Besides, my head is in such a messed up place right now; I need to decompress.


That said, @markrubin , quick research on the ventilators you mentioned and I think I found the company that owns Newport is now Medtronic. Just bought a bunch of stock. Musk has been talking with them about ventilators...so, maybe they do well off this old idea in a new age? Honestly, it seems like it's fairly solid at its current price and maybe it goes up. Well, guess it's only money and if I'm to gamble, it may as well be on a company whose profile I liked and is doing some good for the world in a time when it's needed desperately. I have to see how Telsa is doing, too. Maybe the rest of my free money goes to them as soon as I can move it around.
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post #405 of 1271 Old 03-30-2020, 05:01 AM
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...quick research on the ventilators you mentioned...

What about all those ventilators destined for NYC in a warehouse....Edison, NJ? (Recycled old joke)

Dyson claims new design is simple to manufacture.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/26/tech/...rus/index.html
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post #406 of 1271 Old 03-30-2020, 05:16 AM
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I was specifically trying not to demonstrate superiority. If you knew how much I've hated myself in the past, how much I've wanted to kill myself on more than one occasion in my life....maybe you'd know how not superior I am. I thought I tried to make that abundantly clear in the post...and failed. Maybe this one will do a better job letting you know how I really feel about myself.


About the only thing I know to be true about myself is that I test well. That's pretty much it. I don't know anything else. Am I a good person, no idea. A good father? Do my best. Husband? Very doubtful. Computer programmer -- well, unabashedly, yes...and everyone who felt like commenting on my performance in this regard throughout my life has generally said I'm pretty darn good at it. I believe that entitles me to declare myself "smart", right? I'm sorry if it was taken as it was. I even quantified it was "most people" which isn't "this forum" or "a poster" or even "you". I can't say something as simple as, "I objectively test better than most people in aptitude tests and that makes me statistically likely to be smarter than a person selected at random?" Sorry, but sufficiently quantified, my statement stands and I stand by it. If you want me to adjust it, we'll talk about....all the "dumbs" I've had in my life. It'll give you balance...and is precisely why I also said I don't consider myself above anyone else (but, I suppose that was just taken as some disingenuous humble bragging, right?). I will never win...getting my point across in text is not easy...certainly not without taking sufficient time to craft my thoughts with extreme precision. Something I, admittedly, failed to do in that post (and probably this one, and probably every one I have and will ever make as far as some person will be concerned).


In the entire post, you latch on to that? Not even a few sentences around it could have avoided this? I mean, overall, I suppose I'll admit the post wasn't my best foot forward. But, it was honest...if not harsh, possibly terrible. My heart is in the right place, though...I think. Hell, I honestly don't know any more.



But, read above and see if you still think I believe myself superior; certainly "academically smart" (as, I believe, was quantified in the post) is about the best I'll give myself. And, even then only with subjects in which I immerse myself. And, even then I am only as good as the data I can acquire. Of course, thanks to the Internet I can acquire more at a slightly more rapid pace...I just can't always trust myself to have pulled in the right information. So, I bounce it off others and see what sticks. Sometimes I do that very poorly. And, sorry, but sometimes people just aren't capable of communicating with me...that's both our faults, I suppose. But, I only have so much time, and I have to ration it accordingly. This is...unfortunate?



That said, I can enumerate all the ways I'm stupid if you'd like. I know how dumb I am, believe me. My wife would tell you I can't even get myself around the block without her, and I'd agree (in jest, but it's not far from the truth). But, I know what I'm good at, too. I have always tested well, and I've barely studied for any of them. Heck, the singular test I can remember studying for in my entire life was an AP biology test...I had to memorize so much information. I tried so hard, but I had not the patience and I had so many other things I wanted to do instead (computers, lol). I believe I managed to eek out a low C, maybe high D, lol. I wish I remembered that professors name...I really liked him. Anyway, I was mad, but it was totally expected. In fact, part of me was proud I did as well as I did for the overall effort I put in...that and I believe the teacher curved it.


Regardless, I am "lazy", this I know. Mostly "lazy" simply because half the time I live in a dream-world so I don't have to face the real one and how terrible I believe I am at moving through it. If it weren't for my being good at my job, and now having a wife and kids, I'd probably be dead. About the only thing I work hard at is my job, when I am not distracted by learning anything else (including things on this forum because A/V is about the only other thing I love that isn't a human or computer).


Viruses don't "want" to kill their hosts...it's best "they" both survive. But, I do believe this was already mentioned while I was on my...hiatus. I just felt the need to repeat it: viruses don't "want" to kill us.


Actually, I suppose we can't be sure whether they "want" anything or not...and I don't know how we'd ever know; maybe they are sentient and we just can't figure out how to "talk" to them, lol -- so sci-fi.

That all sounds pretty...sensible. I don't know what else to say. I'm not sure I'd be safe, but...my personal risk analysis model is not everyone's. Besides, I suppose the socially correct thing to do right now is what we're doing. Plus, John Oliver's recent episode pretty put me over the edge. I get it! But, so do a lot of pros and they are doing their best to balance a crap health situation with a crap market situation. The health pros know the "only" solution is to put everyone in a bubble (the show said to freeze them in time for 14 days 6' apart). But, the crap market situation requires attention before a bunch of people (many elder, who, suckily enough, are kind of getting it at both ends -- more quickly depleting retirement accounts and higher risk of dying) don't end up "broke" despite their best efforts to be responsible.


Of course, if we keep this up, the "crap market" may just have no choice but to adjust itself -- we can help by "shuffling" stocks to companies who care. Maybe we can finally tell the world "we care more about our people than money" through money itself. Bets to what happens; I certainly don't know -- Musk says we need to be better at predicting the future, I'd say as crazy as it sounds, it'd never hurt.


I do know I'm (finally, after a long time of staying out) investing in the market. Plus, thanks to this forum and thread, I'll invest in companies who are making our life better right now. Hopefully it pans out and I can use the money I gain not only to help my family but to help build a concept I've been toying with in my head for a while to help shift the economy to a more "fair" and "open" system (and BTC would probably be a part, if not some crypto). If not, well, failure is just a learning experience for the next time.


Don't we care about all of it? True, over-running the hospital hurts a lot of other people, too...like people that need it for something other than Corona virus (and who may have a more serious condition). But, if we had portable ventilators maybe we could send those people on their way home to recover (at an acceptable "social distance") without further medical attention (and possible risk to the medical health professions)? I don't know. But, the hospitals can't be on Corona duty all day, either! Nor can people be cooped up in their houses indefinitely without a breakdown of our social fabric and continuing decline of our market.



Honestly, though...we have lots of under-used hospitals right now...what's it cost to ship the sick to them? Or, are they lacking medical supplies, too?



This whole thing is messed up. It's such a massive mess of variables and trying to piece it all together hurts. Besides, my head is in such a messed up place right now; I need to decompress.


That said, @markrubin , quick research on the ventilators you mentioned and I think I found the company that owns Newport is now Medtronic. Just bought a bunch of stock. Musk has been talking with them about ventilators...so, maybe they do well off this old idea in a new age? Honestly, it seems like it's fairly solid at its current price and maybe it goes up. Well, guess it's only money and if I'm to gamble, it may as well be on a company whose profile I liked and is doing some good for the world in a time when it's needed desperately. I have to see how Telsa is doing, too. Maybe the rest of my free money goes to them as soon as I can move it around.
DreamWarrior

I read your previous post as a cry of pain about the country being so damaged and fragmented that we can't even agree about facts. I deal with many extremely intelligent, high functioning individuals on a daily basis. At most, each of us is highly intelligent in one, perhaps two, areas. Mostly, we are idiots in the others.
Please try not to take attacks on the internet seriously. If a reader actually tried to understand what you were trying to communicate, I think he/she would basically agree. In trying to state where you were coming from, you mistakenly opened yourself up to attacks based on the weakest part of your argument. You don't need affidavits or tests to validate your opinions. As a skilled programmer, you excel at critical thinking. Just state your argument, not your credentials.
As far as the existential pain you are in, I believe you speak for all of us. We all struggle to see ourselves accurately.
P.S. Before I got GPS, my wife used to tell friends that if she pre-deceased me, they would need to give me a ride to the funeral home because it would be unlikely I could find it on my own.
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post #407 of 1271 Old 03-30-2020, 05:16 AM
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...Personally, I'm quite worried that the US is going to move that line shortly, and the impact of that would be global.

In one respect, line was moved, or drawn: potential 100k American deaths a "very good job."

Shameful.
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Originally Posted by DreamWarrior View Post
In the entire post, you latch on to that? Not even a few sentences around it could have avoided this? I mean, overall, I suppose I'll admit the post wasn't my best foot forward. But, it was honest...if not harsh, possibly terrible. My heart is in the right place, though...I think. Hell, I honestly don't know any more.
We all have our shortcomings. That said, none of the people I know (with one exception) who are super, super smart (in some case, scary smart) have ever needed to tell me how smart they are. It was just obvious. The noted exception had (from a very lousy childhood raised by some really sick parents) all kinds of issues with self worth, so stating how smart he was, is his way of compensating.

I'm sorry you are dealing with what you are dealing with and my comment could have been stated differently.
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post #409 of 1271 Old 03-30-2020, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by bmcn View Post
In one respect, line was moved, or drawn: potential 100k American deaths a "very good job."

Shameful.
It was a statement given based on current situation and trends to set expectation. At expected death rate, 100K deaths means about 5 million infections. I think if USA gets away with only 5 million infections of this, we have skated through with a lot of luck. Honestly, with the way people insist they have rights in this country, and the way people refuse to take current lock downs seriously, I think it's likely we see 200 million infections this year in just USA. Add a 2-5% death rate to that and see what you get. So yea, 100k deaths would be a miracle in my opinion. Fantastic job well done.
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post #410 of 1271 Old 03-30-2020, 06:52 AM
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But my response to that was directly to your statement. We do not care more about human life. We care about overrunning the hospital system. The annual flu does not overrun the hospital system, therefore, nothing is done for it yearly. All these measures are purely about not overrunning the hospital system.
If I understand correctly, then you're even more cynical than I am - which is saying a lot.

My assumption was that we were trying to avoid that overrun because it would lead to significantly more dead people.

You're saying the loss of human life isn't the primary factor? We're protecting the health care system because of its economic cost?

2020 sucks.
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post #411 of 1271 Old 03-30-2020, 06:58 AM
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...So yea, 100k deaths would be a miracle in my opinion. Fantastic job well done.
Miracle? Pandering is a crime in some jurisdictions.

Katrina parallels are reasonable; can't wait for him to appear wearing a shoulder brace and declaring "War's over, I defeated the invisible enemy." Perhaps next week.
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post #412 of 1271 Old 03-30-2020, 07:06 AM
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Miracle? Pandering is a crime in some jurisdictions.

Katrina parallels are reasonable; can't wait for him to appear wearing a shoulder brace and declaring "War's over, I defeated the invisible enemy." Perhaps next week.
Well I'm not giving Trump a pass on how this has been handled up to this point. But in my opinion, how we got here is not relevant for where we are going now. If we were to do this all over again with a different decision maker, I think we would be in much better shape right now. We could have used our lead time when China reported this to prepare massive amounts of tests and have a strong test-and-isolate plan in place. We didn't.

But regardless how we got here, from this point on, if we end up with "only" 100K deaths, I think we skated by lucky. I think the only thing that can change this is a cure / viable treatment (not a vaccine but a cure / treatment). If some drug can help people recover to avoid needing ICU then this becomes more like a severely contagious flu and we can get through it quickly and hopefully build herd immunity.


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If I understand correctly, then you're even more cynical than I am - which is saying a lot.

My assumption was that we were trying to avoid that overrun because it would lead to significantly more dead people.

You're saying the loss of human life isn't the primary factor? We're protecting the health care system because of its economic cost?

2020 sucks.
No not for its economic cost. I guess the overall protection of the health care system is to save lives. But the entire throttling system isn't abut saving lives, its about keeping up pace with the health care system. In other words, if the health care system said, "Don't worry about how many people get sick, we have a bed and ventilator for every man, woman, and child in USA", there'd be no lockdown at all. The lockdown isn't to save people from getting sick. It's to save people from getting sick and not have a place to go to get treated because the health care system is overrun. It's an important distinction.

Likewise, if we for some reason open things up again, it's not because it's now safe to go back to work. It's because whatever has changed will allow you to catch COVID19 and still get treatment without over running the hospital system.

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post #413 of 1271 Old 03-30-2020, 07:09 AM
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Miracle? Pandering is a crime in some jurisdictions.

Katrina parallels are reasonable; can't wait for him to appear wearing a shoulder brace and declaring "War's over, I defeated the invisible enemy." Perhaps next week.
Eh, if this comes to a close with under 100k american deaths, it will be a miracle. That wouldn't really be out of line for a severe flu season.

I think that prediction depends heavily on social distancing remaining in place and "continuing to be effective" for a very long time.
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post #414 of 1271 Old 03-30-2020, 07:11 AM
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...We could have used our lead time...

Deny, delay, deflect will be the appropriate epitaph.
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post #415 of 1271 Old 03-30-2020, 07:11 AM
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Well I'm not giving Trump a pass on how this has been handled up to this point. But in my opinion, how we got here is not relevant for where we are going now. If we were to do this all over again with a different decision maker, I think we would be in much better shape right now. We could have used our lead time when China reported this to prepare massive amounts of tests and have a strong test-and-isolate plan in place. We didn't.
These things will happen when China didn't release timely information, nor accurate numbers. If you recall, the was much back-lashing for wanting to close the boarders. Yeah, Trump stopped the travel which was an immense help or we would be far worse off than we are now. And that, you can take to the bank.

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On the afternoon of 30 December 2019, an "urgent notice on the treatment of pneumonia of unknown cause" was issued by the Wuhan Municipal Health Committee on its Weibo social media account.[25][26][27] There had been "a successive series of patients with unexplained pneumonia recently"—27 suspected cases in total, seven of which were in critical condition and 18 were stable, two of which were on the verge of being discharged soon.[25] The Wuhan Municipal Health Committee reported to the WHO that 27 people had been diagnosed with pneumonia of unknown cause.[26] Most were stallholders from the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market, seven of whom were in critical condition. The Wuhan Municipal Health Commission also made a public announcement regarding the situation.[28]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeli...3_January_2020
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There was a man that wrote a book about this. He said that nothing has ever slowed the onward march of technological progress. Not WW1, not WW2, not small pox or earthquakes or tidal waves or anything. Ray Kurzweil. The book is called "The Singularity is Near" iirc.
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post #418 of 1271 Old 03-30-2020, 07:37 AM
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There was a man that wrote a book about this. He said that nothing has ever slowed the onward march of technological progress. Not WW1, not WW2, not small pox or earthquakes or tidal waves or anything. Ray Kurzweil. The book is called "The Singularity is Near" iirc.
You're dangerously close to getting this thread back on topic.

Any opinions on what this will do to the onward march of technology in the home theater and audio space?
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post #419 of 1271 Old 03-30-2020, 07:43 AM
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Well I'm not giving Trump a pass on how this has been handled up to this point. But in my opinion, how we got here is not relevant for where we are going now. If we were to do this all over again with a different decision maker, I think we would be in much better shape right now. We could have used our lead time when China reported this to prepare massive amounts of tests and have a strong test-and-isolate plan in place. We didn't.

.
But honestly ,using 20/20 hindsight and then projecting this onto some ideal fictitious leader is absurd. You can say that that leader was out there but looking around at the list of possibilities I doubt it. Having a healthcare system capable of handling any situation and being able to turn on a dime to make it financially feasible well, I hope you could design such a thing. Just my take.

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