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post #31 of 323 Old 04-05-2020, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Lp85253 View Post
conspiracy theory "news" is now mainstream.. foxnoise and msnbc perfected it and a slew of trash web sites followed , the only "truth" now is that there is no truth.. only opinion formed by too much ratings based news networks..and an overexposed viewer base
My brother in law is a Manhattan lawyer, working in tort law (i.e. "a civil wrong that causes a claimant to suffer loss or harm"). He had two comments about this pandemic based on much experience and the reality of human nature:

1. For some folks, the only thing that will convince them this is real is when it directly affects them or someone they know.

2. Every institution that ignores the science on Coronavirus to the detriment of their employee, customers or member's health by ignoring the threat, will expose itself to what promises to be a flood of lawsuits once the damage is done.

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post #32 of 323 Old 04-05-2020, 10:41 AM
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My brother in law is a Manhattan lawyer, working in tort law (i.e. "a civil wrong that causes a claimant to suffer loss or harm"). He had two comments about this pandemic based on much experience and the reality of human nature:

1. For some folks, the only thing that will convince them this is real is when it directly affects them or someone they know.

2. Every institution that ignores the science on Coronavirus to the detriment of their employee, customers or member's health by ignoring the threat, will expose itself to what promises to be a flood of lawsuits once the damage is done.
point #1 we are in total agreement..
point #2 .. as to there will be so much damage inflicted from the fed govt on down that there will be no possible way to litigate the the damage..my thought is that congress will pass a bill that will exempt the fed and probably states too from possible liability and that large corps. will wind up getting exempted as well.. time will tell .. what worries me most is that trump's favorite "news" outlet
refuses to hold him the least little bit responsible for community preparedness when he was calling the virus a "dem hoax".. might it be that they were providing the script?

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post #33 of 323 Old 04-05-2020, 10:44 AM
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I'm suspicious about The Perfect Cluster_ _ _ _: "wet markets" remain open; lack of warehousing pandemic supplies and little regard for their fair distribution; COVIDIOTS at Federal level with zero Crisis Management skills.
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post #34 of 323 Old 04-05-2020, 10:49 AM
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"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - Agent K
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post #35 of 323 Old 04-05-2020, 10:53 AM
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"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - Agent K
lol , i've seen a whole bunch of stupid at the individual level.. the early hoarders are living proof... cable news has created a society that is totally dependent on outside sources for opine thought..there is "no" common sense anymore..
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post #36 of 323 Old 04-05-2020, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Dude111 View Post
Well what do you think about the empty hospitals Mark??


I’m in SoCal and run a nurse staffing agency: my nurses are being sent all over the country into packed hospitals. My sister is an infectious disease specialist and barely gets any sleep - you are a whole new level of ignorance.
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post #37 of 323 Old 04-05-2020, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Lp85253 View Post
point #1 we are in total agreement..
point #2 .. as to there will be so much damage inflicted from the fed govt on down that there will be no possible way to litigate the the damage..my thought is that congress will pass a bill that will exempt the fed and probably states too from possible liability and that large corps. will wind up getting exempted as well.. time will tell .. what worries me most is that trump's favorite "news" outlet
refuses to hold him the least little bit responsible for community preparedness when he was calling the virus a "dem hoax".. might it be that they were providing the script?
The only thing I am sure of... is that insurance companies and lawyers will be working on the fallout from all this for many years to come. Once the dust settled, who gets to sue who? I have no idea. But there's gonna be a ton of suing.
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post #38 of 323 Old 04-05-2020, 11:10 AM
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The proper rebuttal to conspiracy theories is and always has been hard facts with references & citations.
The last four years, in particular, fact checkers have been overworked and are facing burn-out.

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post #39 of 323 Old 04-05-2020, 11:13 AM
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The last four years, in particular, fact checkers have been overworked and are facing burn-out.
fact checkers are considered "liberal press " nowadays and there isn't a fix to willful ignorance ..
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post #40 of 323 Old 04-05-2020, 11:16 AM
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The only thing I am sure of... is that insurance companies and lawyers will be working on the fallout from all this for many years to come. Once the dust settled, who gets to sue who? I have no idea. But there's gonna be a ton of suing.
that's certainly a possibility , lets see how it all falls.. we seem to have the same thought on what "should " be , but i think i'm a bit more jaded.. and even though it's a pessimistic view , a bit more mindful of how our govt cya's everything that is a major crisis through legislation contrary to public interest and common sense..

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post #41 of 323 Old 04-05-2020, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by teetertotter View Post
...we drive south to GA. to see family every year...
How 'bout this from goofball cult of personality member whose office is located 7 miles from CDC hdqs:

April 1, 2020

“Those individuals could have been infecting people before they ever felt” symptoms, he said. “We didn’t know that until the last 24 hours.”

https://www.ajc.com/blog/politics/breaking-georgia-governor-orders-shelter-place-curb-coronavirus/vdAoWkjq39W2usr9e8W8BL/
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post #42 of 323 Old 04-05-2020, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Lp85253 View Post
that's certainly a possibility , lets see how it all falls.. we seem to have the same thought on what "should " be , but i think i'm a bit more jaded.. and even though it's a pessimistic view , a bit more mindful of how our govt cya's everything that is a major crisis through legislation contrary to public interest and common sense..
I recently watched Dark Waters so the narrative for "the way things work" when it comes to that stuff is fresh in my mind. Good movie, I thought.
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post #43 of 323 Old 04-05-2020, 11:35 AM
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"During the 2018-2019 season, the CDC estimates 16.5 million people went to a health care provider for the flu and more than 34,000 people died in the U.S. The prior season saw 61,000 deaths." https://www.usnews.com/news/health-n...an-coronavirus

"Over 770,000 Americans have died from drug overdoses since 1999, and the total number of deaths jumped from 16,849 in 1999 to a high mark of 70,237 in 2017" https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/p...1/20190911.htm


^ No one batted an eye. Sure, it made the news and was slotted somewhere between the weather and the latest Kardashian news, yet we all went on with our daily lives.



I have an 83yr old dad, a 79yr old mom, an 80yr old mother in-law and a 25yr old daughter and I'm fully aware of the 1% chance of the fatal consequences of this flu and what it means to each and every one of them if they contract it.

I'm also aware of the absolutely staggering chance that of all of their futures - especially my daughter's, becoming something resembling a 3rd world country with the complete and total destruction of not only ours, but the world's economy.



The entire heard of wildebeests know that they have to get across the river to the abundance of food and that not all of them will survive the crossing. They know some of the weak and even a few of the strong will be lost, but they also know that they have to get across the river before it swells so large that none of them will survive the crossing.

They know that they can't stay on the side of the river that they are already on, because there will not be enough food to feed the entire heard while they are waiting for the river to subside, resulting in the obliteration of the heard..... The heard moves forward to survive.
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post #44 of 323 Old 04-05-2020, 11:37 AM
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2005
''When G.W.Bush first told his aides he wanted to focus on the potential of a global pandemic, many of them harbored doubts.''
"You've got to read this*," Fran Townsend remembers the president telling her. "He said, 'Look, this happens every 100 years. We need a national strategy.'"


*John M. Barry's "The Great Influenza''


https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/george-bush-2005-wait-pandemic-late-prepare/story?id=69979013
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post #45 of 323 Old 04-05-2020, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I recently watched Dark Waters so the narrative for "the way things work" when it comes to that stuff is fresh in my mind. Good movie, I thought.
i'll check it out ..

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post #46 of 323 Old 04-05-2020, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Lp85253 View Post
what worries me most is that trump's favorite "news" outlet
refuses to hold him the least little bit responsible for community preparedness when he was calling the virus a "dem hoax".. might it be that they were providing the script?
Dude, you actually believe this? Or are you intentionally accusing him of saying something that you know he didn’t say?
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post #47 of 323 Old 04-05-2020, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by D Bone View Post
"During the 2018-2019 season, the CDC estimates 16.5 million people went to a health care provider for the flu and more than 34,000 people died in the U.S. The prior season saw 61,000 deaths." https://www.usnews.com/news/health-n...an-coronavirus

"Over 770,000 Americans have died from drug overdoses since 1999, and the total number of deaths jumped from 16,849 in 1999 to a high mark of 70,237 in 2017" https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/p...1/20190911.htm


^ No one batted an eye. Sure, it made the news and was slotted somewhere between the weather and the latest Kardashian news, yet we all went on with our daily lives.



I have an 83yr old dad, a 79yr old mom, an 80yr old mother in-law and a 25yr old daughter and I'm fully aware of the 1% chance of the fatal consequences of this flu and what it means to each and every one of them if they contract it.

I'm also aware of the absolutely staggering chance that of all of their futures - especially my daughter's, becoming something resembling a 3rd world country with the complete and total destruction of not only ours, but the world's economy.



The entire heard of wildebeests know that they have to get across the river to the abundance of food and that not all of them will survive the crossing. They know some of the weak and even a few of the strong will be lost, but they also know that they have to get across the river before it swells so large that none of them will survive the crossing.

They know that they can't stay on the side of the river that they are already on, because there will not be enough food to feed the entire heard while they are waiting for the river to subside, resulting in the obliteration of the heard..... The heard moves forward to survive.
are you taking into account that the virus as the +1?.. that means it is the factor which overwhelms our ability as a nation to deal with healthcare issues and it affects everyone.. you're relatives die in a nursing home for lack of care , not the virus.. or they die from a heart attack because the ventilator they needed was being used by somebody with the virus.. how many thousand times does that need to happen , or when people die because 1/2 of the 1st responders are down with the virus.. you talk #'s but you totally disregard the peripheral damage.. how expensive is it to replace a doctor that dies?.. numbers are just numbers , it's a cute internet argument .. but that's about as far as your argument goes .. it's cute..
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post #48 of 323 Old 04-05-2020, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by D Bone View Post
"During the 2018-2019 season, the CDC estimates 16.5 million people went to a health care provider for the flu and more than 34,000 people died in the U.S. The prior season saw 61,000 deaths." https://www.usnews.com/news/health-n...an-coronavirus

"Over 770,000 Americans have died from drug overdoses since 1999, and the total number of deaths jumped from 16,849 in 1999 to a high mark of 70,237 in 2017" https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/p...1/20190911.htm

[/I]
A lot is done to mitigate the effects of the flu. Otherwise it would kill a lot more people than it does.

The resources poured into fighting illegal drugs, and the deaths they cause, are absolutely enormous. Awareness of the heroin scourge is wide. The subject has surely received a ton of news coverage over the years. America's prisons are packed—at great taxpayer expense it should be noted—with people in jail because of drug policy.

It's abundantly clear from Spain and Italy that if one does take this virus seriously and act early, there is a huge price to pay—in human lives.

The more people pitch in and cooperate in fighting the pandemic by taking maximum care to prevent spread during this crucial juncture (curve-flattening), the faster it recedes, the sooner businesses and schools can reopen while a vaccine for Coronavirus is developed.

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post #49 of 323 Old 04-05-2020, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Karl Maga View Post
Dude, you actually believe this? Or are you intentionally accusing him of saying something that you know he didn’t say?
you don't really expect me to take that bait ? lol.. just go back and watch his responses from january thru the present.. his entire text has changed .
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I have several family members in the medical field who are risking their lives on the front lines of the battle to save lives. They don't care whether or not the patients whose lives they are trying to save are coronavirus conspiracists. So all of you non-believers can rest assured that if you end up in a hospital that you will get the best treatment possible under the most difficult conditions even if you believe the medical personnel treating you are part of your coronavirus conspiracy. Our medical personnel are every bit as heroic as our military personnel serving in harm's way. Suggesting otherwise is despicable.
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post #51 of 323 Old 04-05-2020, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Karl Maga View Post
Dude, you actually believe this? Or are you intentionally accusing him of saying something that you know he didn’t say?
Dude, um...

February 28, 2020

“This is their new hoax,” he said, referring to the coronavirus.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/28/trum...-new-hoax.html
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post #52 of 323 Old 04-05-2020, 12:16 PM
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you don't really expect me to take that bait ? lol.. just go back and watch his responses from january thru the present.. his entire text has changed .
I noticed you deflected from my questioning you about your accusation of what he said: you alleged that he called it a hoax. Whatever else he has said in the interim is immaterial to your allegation.

Why don’t we just go to the transcript of his actual words:
Trump's full quote from the rally was, "Coronavirus. They're politicizing it. We did one of the great jobs.... One of my people came up to me and said, 'Mr. President, they tried to beat you on Russia, Russia, Russia.' That didn't work out too well. They couldn't do it. They tried the impeachment hoax.... And this is their new hoax."

Any objective person can see he is referring to their politicization of the pandemic, in particular his administration’s handling of it.

But don’t let a little truth disrupt your bigot fest.
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People are so weird.... can't believe anyone would think this is all a worldwide conspiracy.

Everyone knows the virus originated from a meteorite filled with infected bats and pangolins, sent to soften the human race up before the upcoming alien invasion. Duh...

On a serious note, I have a fear that this is just a primer for how govts will react (or badly react) to climate change over the next couple of decades.
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post #54 of 323 Old 04-05-2020, 12:19 PM
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Having been to China previously, if anyone believes the "news" coming out of China, you deserve a swift kick in the a$$ for being complete idiot.

And it's all about perspective.
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I live in a tiny town in CT. Talking Mayberry. We have at least 12 confirmed cases and likely a hundred plus more who have it and either showed no symptoms or were sick and could not get tested. You still cannot easily get a test here even if you drive to a bigger city with a mobile testing center. They are reserving the test for the high risk groups and or really, really sick.

Anyone who thinks this is fake should go visit NYC for a week unprotected or some of the cities here in CT.

Seriously come visit. I’m sure you can find a cheap hotel.

I think there are large regions of the country who have not taken this seriously and are about 1-2 months behind us here and will be in for a big surprise. I hope I’m wrong but I grew up in Florida and have lots of friends and family there and up until early last week they said beaches were still packed.
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post #56 of 323 Old 04-05-2020, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Doe Doe View Post
People are so weird.... can't believe anyone would think this is all a worldwide conspiracy.

Everyone knows the virus originated from a meteorite filled with infected bats and pangolins, sent to soften the human race up before the upcoming alien invasion. Duh...

On a serious note, I have a fear that this is just a primer for how govts will react (or badly react) to climate change over the next couple of decades.
Liberals are pushing for a socialist state, so it's possible. They want more government control and at least the one thats not a career politician actually gets it. https://songmeaning.info/president-t...-constitution/

CA, NY, IL and the other left leaning states have taken the quarantine to what I say loosely is "mandatory". If folks want more government control, they gotta understand, they will eventually reap what they sow.
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post #57 of 323 Old 04-05-2020, 12:34 PM
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This comparison is striking.


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post #58 of 323 Old 04-05-2020, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post
I live in a tiny town in CT. Talking Mayberry. We have at least 12 confirmed cases and likely a hundred plus more who have it and either showed no symptoms or were sick and could not get tested. You still cannot easily get a test here even if you drive to a bigger city with a mobile testing center. They are reserving the test for the high risk groups and or really, really sick.

Anyone who thinks this is fake should go visit NYC for a week unprotected or some of the cities here in CT.

Seriously come visit. I’m sure you can find a cheap hotel.

I think there are large regions of the country who have not taken this seriously and are about 1-2 months behind us here and will be in for a big surprise. I hope I’m wrong but I grew up in Florida and have lots of friends and family there and up until early last week they said beaches were still packed.
Thats because most folks will have minimal complications. I too have family/friends in the medical industry and they are saying the fear and panic is overblown. Treat it like the flu, be smart, wash hands, if you have symptoms/don't feel good stay home etc...

And I've been reading two things about the tests:

#1- Testing kits are coming from China and those are showing to have contamination.
#2- Testing protocols are poor resulting in a high number of false positives.

I know folks in big cites and I have work out of Omaha and there are minimal cases.

Also during the Obama administration the CDC filed new regs and they were eventually approved w/ no real resistance.

Remember kids "interstate" is state to state. Any communicable disease applies AND it is at the "Directors" discretion. Flu, Swine Flu, Zika, etc.. Any potential outbreak, perceived outbreak, etc. the Director can make the call and the CDC has the legal authority to detain you, your kids, wife etc. for 72 hours or more. No judicial due process.

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/final...-diseases.html

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-20...ol1-part70.xml

And the hooray part of this, the WHO has their hand in it. No need for any old american director to get the idea to lock it down:

4) Any communicable disease event the occurrence of which is determined by the Director-General of the World Health Organization, in accordance with Article 12 of the International Health Regulations, to constitute a Public Health Emergency of International Concern; or

(5) Any communicable disease event for which the Director-General of the World Health Organization, in accordance with Articles 15 or 16 of the International Health Regulations, has issued temporary or standing recommendations for purposes of preventing or promptly detecting the occurrence or reoccurrence of the communicable disease.


Folks want a one world government, they will get it and won't like the results.
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post #59 of 323 Old 04-05-2020, 12:36 PM
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Much of the disinformation about the coronavirus and other hot issues is initiated by state-sponsored troll farms in Russia, China and other countries with a vested interest in seeing Western democracies like the USA implode in the kind of petty bickering evidenced in forums and other social media. A bi-partisan organization has been tracking these campaigns and making their data available at the link below. For example, this is how they describe the coronavirus disinformation campaign:

Quote:
The coronavirus pandemic is creating an opportunity for foreign actors who seek to undermine Western democracies to advance their goals. From weekly reports that track messaging from Russian and Chinese state-backed media and diplomatic actors, to pieces that analyze the geopolitical impact of crisis, ASD’s work on coronavirus can be found here.
https://securingdemocracy.gmfus.org
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post #60 of 323 Old 04-05-2020, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
This comparison is striking.
The most densely populated areas are the ones w/ the greatest numbers of cases. It makes sense.
Attached Thumbnails
Coronavirus-COVID-19-Map-of-United-States-e1585737696468.jpg  
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