Chances COVID response causes a years long economic depression? - Page 56 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1651 of 1690 Old 05-22-2020, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
Who gets a "pass"?
Run for office if you could do better.


Some of the vitriol is well earned for those at top. Funny? No. Sickening? Yes.


I have no complaints about Murphy (my state), Wolf (3 miles away) and Cuomo to the north. They are damned if they do, damned if they don't.
Only 1 person constantly gets a "pass" and blames everyone but the mirror. That's funny.
The President has done some incredibly good things, and I’m not about to list them all. The brainwave of putting COVID positive patients in nursing homes is far more idiotic, by orders of magnitude, than anything else done or not done. Enough was known, and historically known about the susceptibility of the elderly, to KNOW this was a piss poor idea. And this was even with rapid conversion of the Javits into a hospital, and supplying the USS Comfort to NY/NJ to help with beds and patient management - neither were barely leveraged. But using nursing homes? Yes, lets do that. How many tens of thousands do you estimate died because of this across the various states that shared those feeble brainwave?

If you are willing to include this action within “having no complaints” about these governors, I find that a extraordinarily convenient set of optics to selectively apply.
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post #1652 of 1690 Old 05-22-2020, 01:11 PM
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The President has done some incredibly good things, and I’m not about to list them all.
I hope that voters in November will change things. If not... I pray for my grandchildren.



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post #1653 of 1690 Old 05-22-2020, 01:11 PM
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Its weird seeing all these states re-open.

What has really changed, besides people running out of patience?

I'm concerned that this will lead to a massive 2nd wave, but for whatever reason, people cared more about that 2 months ago than they do today.

Its irresponsible to open back up without a vaccine. And there is no guarantee that a vaccine will come any time soon. The facts are very simple but people just want to whistle past the graveyard in my opinion.
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post #1654 of 1690 Old 05-22-2020, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by BobbyColtrane View Post
*snip* Its irresponsible to open back up without a vaccine. And there is no guarantee that a vaccine will come any time soon. The facts are very simple but people just want to whistle past the graveyard in my opinion.
There's is no guarantee a vaccine will ever come. How long we wait...guess that'll be up to every individual state. Funny, for once I may agree with what the fed is doing wrt state's rights. Except, I would like a bit more leadership than "fend for yourself, states" -- which is how I perceive the federal (in)action to date. Well, unless you consider OMIC's championing unproven drug therapies and constant double-speak "action".
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post #1655 of 1690 Old 05-22-2020, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by BobbyColtrane View Post
Its weird seeing all these states re-open.

What has really changed, besides people running out of patience?

I'm concerned that this will lead to a massive 2nd wave, but for whatever reason, people cared more about that 2 months ago than they do today.

Its irresponsible to open back up without a vaccine. And there is no guarantee that a vaccine will come any time soon. The facts are very simple but people just want to whistle past the graveyard in my opinion.
So stay home. Problem for you is solved.

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post #1656 of 1690 Old 05-22-2020, 01:54 PM
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We have to reopen. The only option in question is whether to reopen intelligently with safeguards in place or haphazardly. Full speed ahead and no speed ahead are not good options for the health and well-being of the population.
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post #1657 of 1690 Old 05-22-2020, 02:00 PM
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We have to reopen. The only option in question is whether to reopen intelligently with safeguards in place or haphazardly. Full speed ahead and no speed ahead are not good options for the health and well-being of the population.
Of course - people are acting like there will be some magical “moment” that our government will certify is “safe”

Nonsense

We are and have been practicing the same things we will practice when we are “open” - spacing, masks, cleaning hands. Nothing will change a month from now, and its the same we would have done a month ago.

If you are elderly or in poor health, stay home a lot more... that’s it

When treatments and vaccine’s come, we can recalibrate.

The idiot Mayor of NY wanted to KEEP NY BEACHES CLOSED this weekend (I think he backed off of this) If you can’t distance outdoors with a dispersing breeze, where can you distance?

Under 60 and healthy you have very little to worry about. That’s what the stats seems to indicate. If you care for elderly, you have to modify your behavior.

But everyone staying sheltered in place? Asinine, and has been for more than a month.

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post #1658 of 1690 Old 05-22-2020, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
Even liberal websites like huffpost.com are running stories that New York made a mistake in the since reversed state directive to return COVID-19 patients from hospitals to nursing homes that were not fully prepared to deal with them.

The directive that was designed to relieve overcrowded hospitals stated that no resident shall be denied re-admission or admission to the nursing home solely based on confirmed or suspected COVID-19, but did not specify what a nursing home should do in the event that they were not equipped to properly handle COVID-19 patients. It was over a month later that the NY Health Department clarified that homes should not take any new residents if they were unable to meet their needs

It was the kind of fog of war mistake that can happen in the middle of a pandemic the same way it happens in shooting wars. There's no question the order resulted in lives unnecessarily lost even if there's no way to get an exact body count.

huffpost.com/entry/over-4300-coronavirus-patients-sent-to-new-york-nursing-homes-ap_n_5ec7c03ec5b6b9438505aa8e

Liberal, conservative, independent - I try reading 'em all if credible. Typically agnostic AP is apparently source of original story.

Early on NYS considered relocating some downstate COVID patients to hospitals in other regions within state to relieve pressure on ICU beds, then apparently pivoted to nursing homes, perhaps after pushback from upstate hospitals.

Appears some nursing homes were forced to accept COVID patients discharged from hospitals while others actively solicited customers with same profile.

Assisted living facilities are familiar turf for Cuomo, who years ago as state AG had industry in crosshairs for fraud.

Similar story has popped up a few times during May and doesn't appear to be going away soon. Were those treated for COVID, discharged from hospital and released to nursing homes subsequently infect other residents/staff is the question.
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post #1659 of 1690 Old 05-22-2020, 03:10 PM
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...If you can’t distance outdoors with a dispersing breeze, where can you distance?..

Many times easier said than done in NYC metro.
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post #1660 of 1690 Old 05-22-2020, 03:16 PM
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So certain politicians are given a pass by saying “they’re doing their best” while others are plastered with vitriol over nearly every action? This is funny.
It IS funny how some people only complain about Democratic governors, but never the President. Hmmm....

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post #1661 of 1690 Old 05-22-2020, 03:29 PM
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... Were those treated for COVID, discharged from hospital and released to nursing homes subsequently infect other residents/staff is the question.
No way to prove who infected who in New York's nursing homes. Certainly other states that did not release discharged COVID-19 hospital patients to nursing homes have seen their nursing homes become hot spots. In those cases it's presumed the virus was introduced by visitors or workers and easily spread once inside. How much additional infection New York's discharged COVID-19 patients brought to nursing homes can only be speculated.
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post #1662 of 1690 Old 05-22-2020, 03:33 PM
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Crossposting from the other coronavirus thread -


Here is the the last nail in the coffin of Hydroxychloroquine as an efficacious treatment of COVID-19.

Hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine with or without a macrolide for treatment of COVID-19: a multinational registry analysis

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...180-6/fulltext

Interpretation
We were unable to confirm a benefit of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine, when used alone or with a macrolide, on in-hospital outcomes for COVID-19. Each of these drug regimens was associated with decreased in-hospital survival and an increased frequency of ventricular arrhythmias when used for treatment of COVID-19.








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post #1663 of 1690 Old 05-22-2020, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
No way to prove who infected who in New York's nursing homes. Certainly other states that did not release discharged COVID-19 hospital patients to nursing homes have seen their nursing homes become hot spots. In those cases it's presumed the virus was introduced by visitors or workers and easily spread once inside. How much additional infection New York's discharged COVID-19 patients brought to nursing homes can only be speculated.
Taking a simpleton's approach one could argue they were discharged from hospitals because they were no longer infectious. Good discussion.
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post #1664 of 1690 Old 05-22-2020, 05:51 PM
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So stay home. Problem for you is solved.
Thats what I'm doing, which addresses the problem of me getting sick.

But everyone else running around is ratcheting up the risk that this gets much worse and the economic fallout impacts me. So I can't solve that by staying home. It'd be great if we had some sort of coordinated plan amongst all the states, but that ain't happening any time soon.
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post #1665 of 1690 Old 05-22-2020, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for your thoughtful post. In general, I stay away from non-consumer electronics post on avsforum.com. But I posted one for the team. The only comment I am going to make is on the incidence of new viruses. My opinion is that they are getting more frequent. Zika-- no way to hide large numbers of babies born missing half a brain. And nothing like it on observational record, save unusual occurrences found in backroom lab jars in medical schools. Ebola -- a very ugly way to die. Again, very hard to escape from general reporting even in a non-scientific matter. SARS -- 2002? 2003? Toronto got quarantined. The entire city. Back in history, we did record the Spanish Flu Pandemic of 2017/2018. And the Bubonic plague, for instance, before that. The Flu has been known forever. So we can see and record it historically. Thus my conclusion--more per unit time. Why? I don't know why. I do know climate change has eliminated certain eco-niches for certain living creatures, and made them more hospitable for others.
You may be right, but I meant something slightly different. IMO, perhaps there used to be just as many disease-causing viruses in the past as there are now. It's just that with time, better scientific understanding, and technology, we've been able to identify more viruses and figure out the diseases they cause. I'm sure that hundreds of years ago, many people were dying of diseases caused by viruses, but we had no clue that they were caused by viruses. I'm just not convinced that there are actually more deadly viruses now than in the past. Could be. I don't know.

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post #1666 of 1690 Old 05-22-2020, 07:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Many times easier said than done in NYC metro.
I heard a big concern for reopening NYC beaches wasn't spread of infection at the beaches, but spread of infection on public transportation like subways, trains. and buses. That's what many, I'd say most, NYC beach goers use to get to the beaches.


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No way to prove who infected who in New York's nursing homes. Certainly other states that did not release discharged COVID-19 hospital patients to nursing homes have seen their nursing homes become hot spots. In those cases it's presumed the virus was introduced by visitors or workers and easily spread once inside. How much additional infection New York's discharged COVID-19 patients brought to nursing homes can only be speculated.
Do we know if the Covid patients discharged to nursing homes were still infectious at time of discharge?


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Taking a simpleton's approach one could argue they were discharged from hospitals because they were no longer infectious. Good discussion.
One would think...

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post #1667 of 1690 Old 05-22-2020, 07:28 PM
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Was talking with a Wakefern truck driver this evening as I unloaded the truck. He's a feisty old timer(73) with many a story to tell. He told me he actually had the rona a few weeks ago and to him it was no big deal. Had a fever and cough and felt crappy overall but was still functioning, eating etc.
He said he tested positive but just took Tylenol and got over it. He took two weeks off as well. He's since tested negative(trust me I asked!)
He mentioned out of over 800 truck drivers for Wakefern only two passed away due to rona, and one had copd and the other was obese with other underlying issues. He went on to say how, in his opinion, that people today are so scared of germs, and that maybe "playing in the dirt" so to speak and not getting worked up over every little sneeze or sniffle could help your immune system build up tolerances. He rattled off about a dozen things he'd had throughout his life..measles, polio, mumps all kinds of crap lol
Anyway, just thought I'd share that. It was definitely interesting.
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post #1668 of 1690 Old 05-22-2020, 07:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Anecdotal stories are fine and all, but they don't help us to understand the bigger picture. Everyone is unique. Just because someone you know got over covid fairly easily, doesn't mean you will, even if you're healthy. It's all about perspective and understanding one's overall odds, which you can't get from a personal story here and there.
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post #1669 of 1690 Old 05-22-2020, 08:50 PM
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... Do we know if the Covid patients discharged to nursing homes were still infectious at time of discharge? ...

Haven't seen any data published. It would require going back and examining each individual's hospital discharge papers.
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post #1670 of 1690 Old 05-23-2020, 08:10 AM
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Haven't seen any data published. It would require going back and examining each individual's hospital discharge papers.

That would assume that they had enough tests to test people before discharging them and that a negative test was required to be discharged. Somehow I doubt that is/was the case, especially with the shortage of tests early in the pandemic.

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...The brainwave of putting COVID positive patients in nursing homes is far more idiotic, by orders of magnitude, than anything else done or not done. Enough was known, and historically known about the susceptibility of the elderly, to KNOW this was a piss poor idea...

March 13, 2020
Department of Health & Human Services
Guidance for Infection Control and Prevention of Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) in Nursing Homes
Page 5

...Nursing homes should admit any individuals that they would normally admit to their facility, including individuals from hospitals where a case of COVID-19 was/is present...

https://www.cms.gov/files/document/q...nh-revised.pdf
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"BUSINESS
Qantas will offer dirt-cheap flights without social distancing"

Quote:
Australian airline Qantas plans to lure back wary travelers with flights as cheap as $12.50 – admitting Wednesday that it wants to pack planes without social distancing in its new coronavirus safety protocols.
https://nypost.com/2020/05/20/qantas...al-distancing/

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post #1673 of 1690 Old 05-23-2020, 04:38 PM
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The President has done some incredibly good things, and I’m not about to list them all. The brainwave of putting COVID positive patients in nursing homes is far more idiotic, by orders of magnitude, than anything else done or not done. Enough was known, and historically known about the susceptibility of the elderly, to KNOW this was a piss poor idea. And this was even with rapid conversion of the Javits into a hospital, and supplying the USS Comfort to NY/NJ to help with beds and patient management - neither were barely leveraged. But using nursing homes? Yes, lets do that. How many tens of thousands do you estimate died because of this across the various states that shared those feeble brainwave?

If you are willing to include this action within “having no complaints” about these governors, I find that a extraordinarily convenient set of optics to selectively apply.
Actually, I really would like you to list the good things the current President has done.
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post #1674 of 1690 Old 05-24-2020, 01:10 AM
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Actually, I really would like you to list the good things the current President has done.
He can't.
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I don't think we want to open the can of worms of debating the political merits of the current White House in this thread if we want to keep the thread from being closed by the moderators. Let's keep the Coronavirus Section of the forum focused on the coronavirus.
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post #1676 of 1690 Old 05-24-2020, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, I respect thrang for not listing all the good things President bone spurs has done. It's way outside the topic of this thread.
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post #1677 of 1690 Old 05-24-2020, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Nearly Half Of The Twitter Accounts Discussing ‘Reopening America’ May Be Bots

CMU Researchers Say Sophisticated, Orchestrated Bot Campaigns Aim To Sow Divide


... Many factors of the online discussions about “reopening America” suggest that bot activity is orchestrated. One indicator is the large number of bots, many of which are accounts that were recently created. Accounts that are possibly humans with bot assistants generate 66% of the tweets. Accounts that are definitely bots generate 34% of the tweets.

"When we see a whole bunch of tweets at the same time or back to back, it's like they're timed," Carley said. "We also look for use of the same exact hashtag, or messaging that appears to be copied and pasted from one bot to the next."

A subset of tweets about "reopening America" reference conspiracy theories, such as hospitals being filled with mannequins or the coronavirus being linked to 5G towers.

"Conspiracy theories increase polarization in groups. It’s what many misinformation campaigns aim to do," Carley said. "People have real concerns about health and the economy, and people are preying on that to create divides."

Carley said that spreading conspiracy theories leads to more extreme opinions, which can in turn lead to more extreme behavior and less rational thinking. ...
cs.cmu.edu/news/nearly-half-twitter-accounts-discussing-%E2%80%98reopening-america%E2%80%99-may-be-bots
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post #1678 of 1690 Old 05-26-2020, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by subacabra View Post
Was talking with a Wakefern truck driver this evening as I unloaded the truck. He's a feisty old timer(73) with many a story to tell. He told me he actually had the rona a few weeks ago and to him it was no big deal. Had a fever and cough and felt crappy overall but was still functioning, eating etc.
He said he tested positive but just took Tylenol and got over it. He took two weeks off as well. He's since tested negative(trust me I asked!)
He mentioned out of over 800 truck drivers for Wakefern only two passed away due to rona, and one had copd and the other was obese with other underlying issues. He went on to say how, in his opinion, that people today are so scared of germs, and that maybe "playing in the dirt" so to speak and not getting worked up over every little sneeze or sniffle could help your immune system build up tolerances. He rattled off about a dozen things he'd had throughout his life..measles, polio, mumps all kinds of crap lol
Anyway, just thought I'd share that. It was definitely interesting.
You may find George Carlin's views on germs & immunity interesting...I think he was spot on !..

WARNING!--his use of the "F" word and other foul language is rampant (his usual style !),so beware of listening to this with the sound cranked up if your at work,or home where virgin ears may be listening.....I came close to being banned on another forum just for posting a link to this skit..

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post #1679 of 1690 Old 05-27-2020, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by roberthall560 View Post
You may find George Carlin's views on germs & immunity interesting...I think he was spot on !..

WARNING!--his use of the "F" word and other foul language is rampant (his usual style !),so beware of listening to this with the sound cranked up if your at work,or home where virgin ears may be listening.....I came close to being banned on another forum just for posting a link to this skit..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X29lF43mUlo
I was a big fan of Carlin growing up and into my adult life, but it never occurred to me to base my decisions about health on his comedy. Bill Maher is pushing the same idea about our immune systems now, to the point where he's basically blaming victims for their own deaths.

Same with anecdotes. Carlin's routine was funny, but do you really believe nobody in his neighborhood got polio? By the way, his awesome immune system didn't prevent him from dying of heart disease at age 71.

When did we start believing comedians and reality stars more than scientists?
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post #1680 of 1690 Old 05-27-2020, 10:59 AM
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when did we start believing comedians and reality stars more than scientists?
2016
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