When does the Corona ( Covid-19 ) crisis end? - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 823Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #121 of 897 Old 05-26-2020, 01:00 PM
Member
 
Greyimporter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 67
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 64 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by hsungpic View Post
I feel like that too. I see a lot of feel good stories on the local and national news but they don't make me feel any better.
They just nauseate me now after so many weeks of it.
Mostly because they are not saying exactly how economically the country is going to fight to get things back to normal.

I keep thinking, what is the battle plan economy wise because it seems like in this situation their ought to be one.

I read the Spanish Flu way back lasted two years with a recrudescence in the winter. Then I think it said two more years after that of economic depression.

I thought since they are likely way more sophisticated about economic things now then back then. Smart moves would be pushed.

Even though I think testing is not realistic in the reopening. It did occur to me that it might be a great make work job program for the unemployed nationwide. Training and putting people to work doing testing, screening in every business and public place.

I also think that most people are going to get it before any vaccine becomes widely available. Those things they apparently can only speed up so much. I figure everybody in charge knew that from the beginning too. They can only do what they can do to stop the spread of it. So like many people my big worry is the economy. I want me and everyone else working as fast as possible.

I sure wish I could see some good news stories about that stuff being done because unlike with the virus I do think the country has the power to push economic moves that will make things happen faster.

I feel like that little fly dude in that old movie saying "Help me, Help me I want to work now." lol
The problem with optimistic news is that it's not as helpful when you're directly affected (as we all are). Those who are affected know first-hand if things are really getting better VS politicians trying to spin this so we stop noticing that they're failing us. If the news says "it's a beautiful day", that feel-good lasts until you look out the window and see the thunderstorm.

My truth is that I'm stuck at home with my kids. My Kids are going nuts without others kids their age to play with and no school etc. I'm going nuts because I'm unable to work as I'm doing the job that I usually pay daycare and school to do....

I find myself trying to resist the temptation to go news-fishing until I find a channel with a message I like. The trouble is that, when I do, I can't seem to believe it anyway. Logic takes over.

It doesn't help that there's so much shady stuff going on. It feels like politicians and certain special interest groups are actively trying to suppress and manipulate data. I'm not a conspiracy theory nut. I usually roll my eyes at that stuff. I just can't remember ever seeing so much effort in my lifetime to sensor people who aren't "on-message". Like that woman on the news who got fired for refusing to manually change data to make it look like certain counties have beaten the virus when they haven't. I believe everything she said and none of the government's explanation.
D Bone, CherylJosie and drh3b like this.
Greyimporter is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #122 of 897 Old 05-26-2020, 01:43 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
DreamWarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Dirty South Jersey
Posts: 2,842
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1452 Post(s)
Liked: 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmcn View Post
Fool for following one's principles? Nah.
But the money I could've made! Instead, I put money in a stock that has performed about as well as the market, a touch less, but I supported their vision. Stupid, stupid, stupid, lol.
DreamWarrior is offline  
post #123 of 897 Old 05-26-2020, 01:47 PM
Member
 
Greyimporter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 67
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 64 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdht View Post
Think about this too, the virus spread unnoticed in NYC until almost 25% of the population was infected, then took a panic superspreading event to really start flooding the hospitals, and you can almost exclude the portion of the population under 20. To me that paints a picture of a second wave due to reopening or even in the fall being much less likely.
I agree.

This thing all started with a single person at took just a few months to cause all this. If a single case is still out there, it's not going anywhere.

Half the people here could have had Covid 19 and spread it to dozens of people without ever knowing they were sick. We know for a fact that tons of doctors and nurses got sick despite wearing surgical masks when caring for covid 19 patients. There were also various stories of nurses being fired for refusing to work unless hospitals provided proper protective masks as regular surgical masks were ineffective (as their colleagues were still getting sick and dying).

The idea that we'll gradually go back to normal and stop a second wave by wearing surgical masks sounds like fantasy to me. We've been repeatedly told how incredibly contagious this thing is. Masks alone won't help. If they were that effective, why did they cause this financial disaster instead of saying "make sure to wear a mask at work". And... Why are people still catching this thing?

So far, we have just one proven effective methodology for protecting people. I saw it in action when my wife had a baby in hospital a few weeks ago. It's simple, they tested us with a nasal swab before we were allowed in and 30 minutes later, they had our test results showing we were negative for Covid 19. All the staff and patients were tested before being allowed into the building.

The amount of skill required to do the nasal swabs, or the saliva swabs (for the other type of covid test) was not high. You could train someone else to do it in less than 5 minutes. The minimum lab techs at the hospital were all trained in less than a few hours to analyze the swabs. It's not rocket science. Whatever the cost of training a kit, it would have been cheaper than what they did instead.

For thousands of years we (the human race) have known that the way to prevent the spread of a contagious disease is by identifying and quarantining those infected.

I wish we could see actual data on the people who got sick with Covid 19. It would have been helpful to ask how they caught it. Were they wearing a mask etc? Also, it would have been helpful to see the number of deaths broken out by age and other conditions.

In my view, if you're 95 and you died with Covid 19, you died of old age. Covid 19 could just have easily been the flu or a fall down the stairs. Or if you have full blown Aids, covid was a complication not the main COD. It feels like key decisions are being made with little to no useful data.

We keep hearing that obesity is a major risk factor for Covid 19. Here in a America, the big question we all want to ask is "am I fat enough to die from it"?
Greyimporter is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #124 of 897 Old 05-26-2020, 02:12 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bdht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,515
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 790 Post(s)
Liked: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyimporter View Post
Half the people here could have had Covid 19 and spread it to dozens of people without ever knowing they were sick. We know for a fact that tons of doctors and nurses got sick despite wearing surgical masks when caring for covid 19 patients. There were also various stories of nurses being fired for refusing to work unless hospitals provided proper protective masks as regular surgical masks were ineffective (as their colleagues were still getting sick and dying). The idea that we'll gradually go back to normal and stop a second wave by wearing surgical masks sounds like fantasy to me. We've been repeatedly told how incredibly contagious this thing is. Masks alone won't help. If they were that effective, why did they cause this financial disaster instead of saying "make sure to wear a mask at work". And... Why are people still catching this thing?
I've read quite a few studies now, some dating back years, that showed surgical masks are effective at removing coronaviruses from respiratory droplets and aerosols of contagious persons. Not from preventing people from being infected though as inhaling air follows the path of least resistance, whereas exhaling hits the mask first before flowing into the air. Since the virus became so widespread and since contagious persons were unknown, I think it was a good decision to finally encourage people to wear masks, due to the high viral rna in nose/throat swabs documented in pre-symptomatic individuals.

Here's a case study to watch to see if masks were effective
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/500-c...l#post59706248

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyimporter View Post
So far, we have just one proven effective methodology for protecting people. I saw it in action when my wife had a baby in hospital a few weeks ago. It's simple, they tested us with a nasal swab before we were allowed in and 30 minutes later, they had our test results showing we were negative for Covid 19. All the staff and patients were tested before being allowed into the building.
Unfortunately some of the PCR tests, or at least the fast ones, had high returns of false negatives as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyimporter View Post
It would have been helpful to see the number of deaths broken out by age and other conditions.
Age demographics are available. For instance, here's Maryland
https://www.wbaltv.com/article/maryl...mbers/31474817
Michigan:
https://www.michigan.gov/coronavirus...173---,00.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyimporter View Post
In my view, if you're 95 and you died with Covid 19, you died of old age. Covid 19 could just have easily been the flu or a fall down the stairs. Or if you have full blown Aids, covid was a complication not the main COD. It feels like key decisions are being made with little to no useful data. We keep hearing that obesity is a major risk factor for Covid 19. Here in a America, the big question we all want to ask is "am I fat enough to die from it"?
The silent hypoxia factor of the infection is very real. The virus doesn't trigger an IFN-Alpha interferon response, allowing it to replicate unchecked. Inflammatory complications then come from the IFN-Gamma interferon response, which calls excess neutrophil and cytokine activity, due to the unchecked replication. The neutrophils are the primary cause for microclotting(neutrophils shoot their dna at infected cells creating an immobilizing web), cytokines the cause of multi-organ failure. The virus is also able to infect and kill t-cell leukocytes, and causes lymphocemia. And it takes time to create the correct antibodies in a novel infection. So it's a real detriment to the lungs and the immune system.

Some simple dietary supplementing with a physcian/nutritionist guidelines should go a long way in preventing, managing infection, avoiding hypoxia, and avoiding overactive immune response. Vitamins D and C, Zinc with a Zinc chelator or ionophore like Querctin, Cannibinoids(a wide array of effects from modulating ace2 gene expression, reducing susceptible viral cell wall sites by 70%, anti-inflammatory abilities, anti-oxidative stress, etc.), and even tea, which is shown to improve interferon response.

These papers indicate some level of pre-immunity
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/500-c...l#post59706270

And analysis of antibodies produced by recovered patients show at least one with absolute preventative and combative abilities against the virus.
bdht is online now  
post #125 of 897 Old 05-26-2020, 02:17 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
DreamWarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Dirty South Jersey
Posts: 2,842
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1452 Post(s)
Liked: 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyimporter View Post
*snip* It doesn't help that there's so much shady stuff going on. It feels like politicians and certain special interest groups are actively trying to suppress and manipulate data. I'm not a conspiracy theory nut. I usually roll my eyes at that stuff. I just can't remember ever seeing so much effort in my lifetime to sensor people who aren't "on-message". Like that woman on the news who got fired for refusing to manually change data to make it look like certain counties have beaten the virus when they haven't. I believe everything she said and none of the government's explanation.
Honestly, you've touched on something I think is a huge problem coming out of this pandemic -- psychological health. What and who can we trust coming out of this pandemic? Do we just create paranoia? An environment ripe for conspiracy theory? I mean, at this point, I'm unsure anyone in front of the mass public's eyeballs is truthful. At best, they are committing the fewest sins of omission possible, at worst they are outright spewing lies, spin, or hate to further an agenda.

But, agenda and motivation are hard to gauge -- how does one ever know what a person's true motivation behind their actions is? One can use that person's: history, but we ignore this or even excuse it with our President, hell some even like his sordid past; finances, trace the money; attitude, but many of us can be "prickly"; what about a persons' "morality", whatever that is.... The list goes on. I was taught in school to first "check the source"; today, seemingly for many, that doesn't go beyond "does the source broadcast on my network of choice".

However, ultimately, I think most of us just use our "gut" -- unfortunately, many people have particularly bad guts (alas, I mean that both literally, in the United States at least, and figuratively). Worse, those solely using "their guts" often lack the education and intellectual capacity or curiosity to absorb information that isn't spoon-fed to them by sources they already "trust". It's way easier to trust someone "on your team" who "agrees with you" than challenge your beliefs, think outside the box, and then try to make sense of another idea. We often short-cut that, go right to a "trusted source" and mindlessly consume from it like a fire-hose. The mass media knows that, yet it feels like they maintain no obligation to actually engage in journalism. Journalism neither keeps the lights on nor brings in the viewers. Puffery, loud-mouths, crap opinion pieces...those pay -- they get people fired up. They get people on "their team"!

It seems the masses want hyperbole and group-think but, most of all, they want "their team" to win. This "group-think" attitude is a bigger virus than COVID-19 and, worse, some scientists aren't immune. It's a pretty sad state we've entered. I think the history books will recollect this period as the "misinformation age" rather than the "information age"...assuming we're around long enough to write 'em .
DreamWarrior is offline  
post #126 of 897 Old 05-26-2020, 02:32 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Collingswood, N.J.
Posts: 20,641
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2932 Post(s)
Liked: 3008
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamWarrior View Post
Honestly, you've touched on something I think is a huge problem coming out of this pandemic -- psychological health. What and who can we trust coming out of this pandemic? .
Common sense. Not internet forums. It will make you crazy(er).



If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough – Albert Einstein
Ratman is offline  
post #127 of 897 Old 05-26-2020, 03:17 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
DreamWarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Dirty South Jersey
Posts: 2,842
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1452 Post(s)
Liked: 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
Common sense. Not internet forums. It will make you crazy(er).
What is common sense? My dad always told me I had none. Most often when I didn't agree with him.

That said, honestly, from a select few, I've learned more about COVID-19 from this forum than anywhere else! I don't trust, or even read, every linked article -- many I know what to expect before I get there. But, the plethora of new sources (if even just non-peer-reviewed science sources) has been awesome; a lot of new fire-hoses!

Of course, I think someone who is intellectually curious enough to drink from as many as possible and collect the information together to form an opinion is better than a "group-think robot" all day, every day -- even if I disagree with them! Hell, even the "crazy poster" in the movie theater thread, the guy spouting on about conspiracy, interests me more than any of the red/blue party-line-toters.

But, yes, I did lose it for a...touch ...and probably still haven't collected it back up...and maybe I never will -- thanks AVS .
DreamWarrior is offline  
post #128 of 897 Old 05-26-2020, 03:19 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Dave in Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 9,549
Mentioned: 166 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4501 Post(s)
Liked: 4134
The fact that nothing in the world is perfect doesn't mean we should give up trying to find the least flawed things to rely on. That's the best we can do. It's always been that way and it will always be that way. Learn to adapt and survive or fall by the wayside in despair.
Dave in Green is online now  
post #129 of 897 Old 05-26-2020, 06:48 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
fbov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bushnell's Basin, NY
Posts: 1,693
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 356 Post(s)
Liked: 242
We will see what works.

I live in NY. We have a rational plan for reopening, following a very successful shutdown.
https://forward.ny.gov/sites/g/files...gdashboard.png

I fear for states to the West. I don't see anyone else watching this kind of data! We have weapons, but do we have the will to use them?

Stay well,
Frank
fbov is offline  
post #130 of 897 Old 05-26-2020, 10:09 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,646
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1053 Post(s)
Liked: 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyimporter View Post
The problem with optimistic news is that it's not as helpful when you're directly affected (as we all are). Those who are affected know first-hand if things are really getting better VS politicians trying to spin this so we stop noticing that they're failing us. If the news says "it's a beautiful day", that feel-good lasts until you look out the window and see the thunderstorm.

My truth is that I'm stuck at home with my kids. My Kids are going nuts without others kids their age to play with and no school etc. I'm going nuts because I'm unable to work as I'm doing the job that I usually pay daycare and school to do....

I find myself trying to resist the temptation to go news-fishing until I find a channel with a message I like. The trouble is that, when I do, I can't seem to believe it anyway. Logic takes over.

It doesn't help that there's so much shady stuff going on. It feels like politicians and certain special interest groups are actively trying to suppress and manipulate data. I'm not a conspiracy theory nut. I usually roll my eyes at that stuff. I just can't remember ever seeing so much effort in my lifetime to sensor people who aren't "on-message". Like that woman on the news who got fired for refusing to manually change data to make it look like certain counties have beaten the virus when they haven't. I believe everything she said and none of the government's explanation.
Just because your specific situation is different than or not what the news is talking about doesn't mean that what the news is talking about isn't real/happening/relevant to society as a whole. It doesn't make it "fake news."



Your problem is that you're looking towards the news for validation of your situation. Or, as you've stated, you're looking for a message you like. IMO, your expectations for the news are unrealistic. Then, possibly, you base your belief/trust of the news on whether the news validates your situation or not. The news is supposed to inform us of what's going on in the world in general, not a story about every unique situation out there. There's obviously too much politics and agenda interjected in today's mainstream national news. Not great sources if you want a broad view of what's really going on. That unfortunately takes a lot of time and personal effort, lots of reading.


And yes, politicians and governments lie. That's nothing new. As Dr. House put it, "everybody lies." Some more than others. Some try to convince us of a completely different reality. I believe now with the economy in bad shape, we're going to hear a bunch of lies about how the virus isn't as bad as we thought, isn't spreading as much as it is, and other related lies. Whatever it takes to bring back consumer confidence and spending.

LG OLED65B6P
no1special is offline  
post #131 of 897 Old 05-26-2020, 10:36 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,646
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1053 Post(s)
Liked: 756
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyimporter View Post
I agree.

This thing all started with a single person at took just a few months to cause all this. If a single case is still out there, it's not going anywhere.

Half the people here could have had Covid 19 and spread it to dozens of people without ever knowing they were sick. We know for a fact that tons of doctors and nurses got sick despite wearing surgical masks when caring for covid 19 patients. There were also various stories of nurses being fired for refusing to work unless hospitals provided proper protective masks as regular surgical masks were ineffective (as their colleagues were still getting sick and dying).

The idea that we'll gradually go back to normal and stop a second wave by wearing surgical masks sounds like fantasy to me. We've been repeatedly told how incredibly contagious this thing is. Masks alone won't help. If they were that effective, why did they cause this financial disaster instead of saying "make sure to wear a mask at work". And... Why are people still catching this thing?

So far, we have just one proven effective methodology for protecting people. I saw it in action when my wife had a baby in hospital a few weeks ago. It's simple, they tested us with a nasal swab before we were allowed in and 30 minutes later, they had our test results showing we were negative for Covid 19. All the staff and patients were tested before being allowed into the building.

The amount of skill required to do the nasal swabs, or the saliva swabs (for the other type of covid test) was not high. You could train someone else to do it in less than 5 minutes. The minimum lab techs at the hospital were all trained in less than a few hours to analyze the swabs. It's not rocket science. Whatever the cost of training a kit, it would have been cheaper than what they did instead.

For thousands of years we (the human race) have known that the way to prevent the spread of a contagious disease is by identifying and quarantining those infected.

I wish we could see actual data on the people who got sick with Covid 19. It would have been helpful to ask how they caught it. Were they wearing a mask etc? Also, it would have been helpful to see the number of deaths broken out by age and other conditions.

In my view, if you're 95 and you died with Covid 19, you died of old age. Covid 19 could just have easily been the flu or a fall down the stairs. Or if you have full blown Aids, covid was a complication not the main COD. It feels like key decisions are being made with little to no useful data.

We keep hearing that obesity is a major risk factor for Covid 19. Here in a America, the big question we all want to ask is "am I fat enough to die from it"?
Masks do reduce the amount of virus shed into the environment and air, and no one is saying anything about using "masks alone." Masks + social distancing. Social distancing does not mean government-imposed lockdowns (I think many people conflate them). Even after governments lift restrictions, people should still be social distancing and wearing masks. Our behaviors collectively will determine how many people ultimately die, assuming that better treatments and vaccine will come sooner rather than later (or never). We must assume this. The alternative is we don't wear masks, don't social distance, more people die sooner, and if the better treatments and/or vaccine eventually do arrive, many people would've already died that otherwise could have been saved.



A big reason that so many healthcare workers got infected is due to the high concentration of viral particles in the air in rooms with many Covid patients, and time of exposure. Concentration + exposure time = risk of infection. So surgical masks won't help much in that situation. N95 masks are required and full PPE even better. I read that the biggest risk of infection was during intubation of patients. But for a grocery store environment, for example, where concentration and exposure time are both much lower than in an Covid ICU, even cloth or surgical masks are beneficial.


Agree, we need more testing, but there are more challenges than just training and personnel to do them. There have been shortages of everything: testing equipment, swabs, reagents, test kits. Pandemic = shortages. We're ramping up but we're still nowhere near the daily tests we should be doing according to the experts in order to get a handle on this. Part of identifying and quarantining, as you've stated, involves contact tracing, and we're short on that as well. Hiring and training of contact tracers is in progress all over the country. This all takes time.

LG OLED65B6P
no1special is offline  
post #132 of 897 Old 05-27-2020, 07:00 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Dave in Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 9,549
Mentioned: 166 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4501 Post(s)
Liked: 4134
Quote:
Originally Posted by no1special View Post
Masks do reduce the amount of virus shed into the environment and air, and no one is saying anything about using "masks alone." Masks + social distancing. Social distancing does not mean government-imposed lockdowns (I think many people conflate them). Even after governments lift restrictions, people should still be social distancing and wearing masks. Our behaviors collectively will determine how many people ultimately die, assuming that better treatments and vaccine will come sooner rather than later (or never). We must assume this. The alternative is we don't wear masks, don't social distance, more people die sooner, and if the better treatments and/or vaccine eventually do arrive, many people would've already died that otherwise could have been saved. ...
This pretty much nails it. Just add in hand washing and not touching your face. Masks + social distancing + washing hands + not touching face = much slower spread of COVID-19 infections. And it really is important to understand that social distancing doesn't mean staying at home but simply avoiding close, extended contact with larger groups of people, especially when many of those people aren't wearing masks. Following these scientific medical recommendations won't guarantee you can't catch COVID-19 but it will substantially improve your odds of avoiding it and/or spreading it to others.
SuperFist and no1special like this.
Dave in Green is online now  
post #133 of 897 Old 05-27-2020, 07:24 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
markmon1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,185
Mentioned: 165 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6834 Post(s)
Liked: 4958
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
This pretty much nails it. Just add in hand washing and not touching your face. Masks + social distancing + washing hands + not touching face = much slower spread of COVID-19 infections. And it really is important to understand that social distancing doesn't mean staying at home but simply avoiding close, extended contact with larger groups of people, especially when many of those people aren't wearing masks. Following these scientific medical recommendations won't guarantee you can't catch COVID-19 but it will substantially improve your odds of avoiding it and/or spreading it to others.
I really don't think hand washing does much. Neither does wearing gloves, sanitizing surfaces, constantly using wipes etc. This is a virus that's spread through respiratory droplets. Yes, it's possible that it can be spread via touch but this is not really how it's spread. If you're in an area where surfaces all around you are infected with the virus, you should be wearing an N95 mask or more. I think all that hand washing is great advice if you live in the middle of NYC or are taking care of someone that's sick with covid in your house. But if you're practicing social distancing, staying home, etc. then hand washing isn't going to matter.

I think hand washing was only touted at first because the government felt it needed to give the public something they can do to fight this. They should have insisted everyone wears masks - like the other countries in the world. The problem is that as soon as they would have said that, all the masks would be out of stock everywhere.

In my opinion, you put everyone in masks and practice social distancing and this becomes manageable. Any places that are packed should be closed down. Other places should be ok to open. Unfortunately, I think church services are some of the worst. They pack tons of people into a single room close together and then worship involves everyone singing, which singing is known to spread a lot more virus than just talking.
SuperFist and no1special like this.

JVC Control - my software for controlling JVC projector via IP control.
Smart Masking - See my automatic smart screen masking system.
JVC IR Codes - free online pronto code converter for JVC IR codes.
markmon1 is offline  
post #134 of 897 Old 05-27-2020, 08:16 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Dave in Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 9,549
Mentioned: 166 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4501 Post(s)
Liked: 4134
The point is that hand washing is not pointless. While most of the coronavirus is spread in the air a small percentage is spread by touching surfaces. When you do go out in public every door handle and every other surface has been touched by hundreds of others, some of whom may be infected and don't wash their hands. Washing your hands and not touching your face may not be as important as wearing a mask but it's cheap insurance. Besides, people already don't wash their hands enough. You can clearly see this every time you're in a public restroom and folks walk out after doing their business without washing their hands. So let's not discourage anyone from practicing this simple act of basic hygiene.
Dave in Green is online now  
post #135 of 897 Old 05-27-2020, 08:34 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ratman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Collingswood, N.J.
Posts: 20,641
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2932 Post(s)
Liked: 3008
Frequent hand washing should be (or have been) a "normal" practice pre or post Covid.
CherylJosie likes this.



If you can’t explain it simply, you don’t understand it well enough – Albert Einstein
Ratman is offline  
post #136 of 897 Old 05-27-2020, 08:47 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Tom Bley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: IL. USA
Posts: 3,486
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 979 Post(s)
Liked: 957
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnplayerson View Post
If Mr. Gates was elected instead of Trump, The USA would have been the most prepared country in the world for Corona Virus.
Hahahaha.

"This guy can't keep a virus off a computer and he wants to vaccinate everyone?"

Tom Bley is offline  
post #137 of 897 Old 05-27-2020, 08:57 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Dave in Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 9,549
Mentioned: 166 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4501 Post(s)
Liked: 4134
The CDC has updated its advisory on how COVID-19 spreads to reflect that there is insufficient data to determine what percentage is spread through touching a contaminated surface and then touching your face:

Quote:
The virus may be spread in other ways

It may be possible that a person can get COVID-19 by touching a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touching their own mouth, nose, or possibly their eyes. This is not thought to be the main way the virus spreads, but we are still learning more about how this virus spreads.
cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-covid-spreads.html
Dave in Green is online now  
post #138 of 897 Old 05-27-2020, 08:58 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 393
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 405 Post(s)
Liked: 277
As long as the MAGAts are in never ending fight mode against everything meant to help them, this will never go away. Social media is constantly lit up with this rare breed of conservative that demands their civil right to do whatever it is that they please, common sense and respect to others be damned. The spread of the virus is more than than just carelessness, it's a political tool that will backfire on those still thinking it's a hoax or that it will simply disappear because the weather is nice. You have to be somewhat aware of the state of our future when people are rapidly dying and there are still those demanding to go to the gym, get their precious hair cuts or whining about wearing a mask in public because it violated their civil rights. These are the people that are dooming us all. Education more than just a vaccine will end the pandemic and as we've seen already, education is not with us.
wookiegr is offline  
post #139 of 897 Old 05-27-2020, 09:07 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Dave in Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 9,549
Mentioned: 166 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4501 Post(s)
Liked: 4134
Sad to see AV Science Forum becoming a growing platform for spreading conspiracy theories. The source of that Bill Gates video (The Corbett Report) is rated like this by mediabiasfactcheck.com :

Quote:
Overall, we rate the Corbett Report a Tin Foil Hat conspiracy and Moderate pseudoscience website, based on the promotion of 9/11 conspiracies, False Flags, Chemtrails and Deep State conspiracies.
mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-corbett-report/
Dave in Green is online now  
post #140 of 897 Old 05-27-2020, 10:31 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bdht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,515
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 790 Post(s)
Liked: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
Sad to see AV Science Forum becoming a growing platform for spreading conspiracy theories. The source of that Bill Gates video (The Corbett Report) is rated like this by mediabiasfactcheck.com :



mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-corbett-report/
Eventually some of the theories become realities.

https://www.livescience.com/23795-la...e-dangers.html
https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...ocial-networks

Did you know we're entering a Grand Alignment that will peak right around July 4th?

Did you know we're entering a Grand Solar Minimum at the end of the year?

Because the conspiracy sites do, at least the ones that didn't go full Trump over the last few years.

How many people/whistleblowers have been labeled as quacks and conspiracy theorists by pharmaceutical companies only to have a ban on some product years later.

I mean, if the Vaccine Injury Act isn't a giant red flag I don't know what is. The pharmaceutical companies arent liable for their defective products, the US taxpayer is.
bdht is online now  
post #141 of 897 Old 05-27-2020, 10:41 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
CruelInventions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Chicago-ish
Posts: 6,737
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1332 Post(s)
Liked: 1559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
The CDC has updated its advisory on how COVID-19 spreads to reflect that there is insufficient data to determine what percentage is spread through touching a contaminated surface and then touching your face:



cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-covid-spreads.html
Wasn't there some story going around last week regarding the CDC stating that it was unlikely that the virus was being spread by physical contact with surfaces, at least to any significant extent? I forgot where I saw or read that. I know it was retold to me a couple different times last week.

It may have been exactly what you've quoted here, but some people were interpreting the information more definitively, i.e., taking, "insufficient data" from this CDC update and inferring or extrapolating that the touching of surfaces was no longer being considered a significant enough cause for concern.
CruelInventions is online now  
post #142 of 897 Old 05-27-2020, 10:43 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bmcn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 6,241
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2580 Post(s)
Liked: 3482
Quote:
Originally Posted by CruelInventions View Post
Wasn't there some story going around last week regarding the CDC stating that it was unlikely that the virus was being spread by physical contact with surfaces, at least to any significant extent?..
Noticed similar from a few sources past 24-48 hours re: packages.

Last edited by bmcn; 05-27-2020 at 11:42 AM.
bmcn is offline  
post #143 of 897 Old 05-27-2020, 10:45 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Dave in Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 9,549
Mentioned: 166 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4501 Post(s)
Liked: 4134
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdht View Post
Eventually some of the theories become realities. ...
Right, a tiny percentage of the least outlandish theories do prove over time to have an element of truth. The purveyors of the most outlandish conspiracy theories count on that to get consideration from those who begin to doubt everything. Once lured down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole one's perception of reality becomes blurred and even the most outlandish theories seem to have a kernel of truth. Everyone is free to make a choice of whether or not they want to go there. It's getting to be a socially crowded place these days so if anyone decides to go there be sure to take a facemask.
Dave in Green is online now  
post #144 of 897 Old 05-27-2020, 10:55 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Dave in Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 9,549
Mentioned: 166 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4501 Post(s)
Liked: 4134
Quote:
Originally Posted by CruelInventions View Post
Wasn't there some story going around last week regarding the CDC stating that it was unlikely that the virus was being spread by physical contact with surfaces, at least to any significant extent? I forgot where I saw or read that. I know it was retold to me a couple different times last week.

It may have been exactly what you've quoted here, but some people were interpreting the information more definitively, i.e., taking, "insufficient data" from this CDC update and inferring or extrapolating that the touching of surfaces was no longer being considered a significant enough cause for concern.
The CDC initially posted that COVID-19 "does not spread easily" from surfaces. After feedback that this was confusing because it was open to interpretation the CDC changed the wording to what I posted above, which is currently on their website. The new wording reflects that the medical community is still in the process of learning how the virus spreads and it would be inaccurate to state empirically that it "does not spread easily" from all surfaces.
Dave in Green is online now  
post #145 of 897 Old 05-27-2020, 10:58 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
CruelInventions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Chicago-ish
Posts: 6,737
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1332 Post(s)
Liked: 1559
OK, that makes more sense now. Thanks for clarifying.
CruelInventions is online now  
post #146 of 897 Old 05-27-2020, 11:01 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bdht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,515
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 790 Post(s)
Liked: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
Right, a tiny percentage of the least outlandish theories do prove over time to have an element of truth. The purveyors of the most outlandish conspiracy theories count on that to get consideration from those who begin to doubt everything. Once lured down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole one's perception of reality becomes blurred and even the most outlandish theories seem to have a kernel of truth. Everyone is free to make a choice of whether or not they want to go there. It's getting to be a socially crowded place these days so if anyone decides to go there be sure to take a facemask.
That sounds awfully similar to religion, do you have similar opinions towards religion?

Im not one to believe what every random says on the internet, and sure 99.99% of the Annunaki, Thoth, Nibiru stories(and hopefully the Black Eye Club) are pure fiction, but alot of the "conspiracy" that Ive posted is factual information that fits a narrative that implys only either opportunistic capitalizing on a global crisis or worse scripted agenda.

You cant deny that nearly every pathogen lab on the planet was performing Gain of Function research over the last 10 years, you cant deny that in 2019 there were massive ceo departures, 2 separate viral outbreak war games, the federal reserve slashed interest rates and started asset purchasing, and mysterious widespread unseasonal respiratory illness.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c...ess_deaths.htm

If you look at CDC excess death charts, with how fast the virus spread through crowded areas like cruise ships and office buildings, and confirming it began at least in October and immediately spread throughout the world, there should be a marked uptick in deaths from january to march, but it literally doesnt start until a week after the panic. Had the panic superspreading event not occured would we have made it to the summer without the lockdowns?
bdht is online now  
post #147 of 897 Old 05-27-2020, 11:21 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bdht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,515
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 790 Post(s)
Liked: 377
heh I'm sorry that was kind of antagonistic. I'm kind of serious though.

Testing restrictions were lifted March 4th, and in 1 week cases were showing in every county in Florida indicating the virus had been spreading unchecked for months.

And the cronie capitalism is very real. The Federal government has been seizing PPE and medical equipment from states for months, and then sold it to several corporations recently created and without any contract bidding, only to sell back to the states in a bidding war! Even the site that is managing the bidding didnt have to bid or compete for the contract. Removing all watchdogs and oversight...

As far as I can tell the Federal government knew the virus was spreading throughout the country and had reached peak infection mid March, where they intentionally incited a panic by a national emergency declaration, overcrowding grocery and supply stores and means of travel, airports, etc. Creating a spike of infections and then enacting social distancing/lockdown orders to drag the spike out.

Now every other day some drug is touted in the media or Trump rolls out a Moderna exec, theres a nice stock bump, and then a sell off, over and over and over.

It all looks like an intentional operation or an event(lab leak) took place in late spring early summer 2019. Sure the most likely reality is a natural virus, ineptitude at governance, and oppurtunistic profiteering. Not much better though.
bdht is online now  
post #148 of 897 Old 05-27-2020, 12:07 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
fbov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bushnell's Basin, NY
Posts: 1,693
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 356 Post(s)
Liked: 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdht View Post
... If you look at CDC excess death charts, with how fast the virus spread through crowded areas like cruise ships and office buildings, and confirming it began at least in October and immediately spread throughout the world, there should be a marked uptick in deaths from january to march, but it literally doesnt start until a week after the panic. Had the panic superspreading event not occured would we have made it to the summer without the lockdowns?
Excerpted from The Economist, these are excess death charts for New York City, and several of the European countries that fed the northeastern state outbreak. Italy leads, but only by ~2 weeks. 2.2 million people came to the NYC area from these countries in Jan-March.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...733118&thumb=1

I see no sign of excess deaths in October.

The only sign I see of a "panic superspreading event" might be better called "winter break." In NYS, schools have separate, week-long "winter" and "spring" breaks tied to Presidents' Week and Easter. Over break, many families go South, to warm states, or East-West to mountainous states and countries... like Italy, which had entered outbreak phase by mid-February (based on excess deaths) concentrated in the North, near the Alps. Four weeks after Presidents' Week, the NYC death rate starts to climb. That's when the panic behavior starts to manifest, Friday, March 13 in my town.

I will also suggest that you consider two things very important in the search for truth.

Paroidelia
"the tendency for incorrect perception of a stimulus as an object, pattern or meaning known to the observer, such as seeing shapes in clouds, seeing faces in inanimate objects or abstract patterns, or hearing hidden messages in music."

Confirmation Bias
"the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information that confirms or support one's prior personal beliefs or values."

Until one knows one's own perspective, truth can prove elusive. There are many red herrings, some very well disguised.

Stay well,
Frank
Attached Thumbnails
Economist snip deaths vs expected deaths.jpg  
no1special likes this.
fbov is offline  
post #149 of 897 Old 05-27-2020, 12:30 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Dave in Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 9,549
Mentioned: 166 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4501 Post(s)
Liked: 4134
@bdht , I didn't take your post as antagonistic and I don't believe you fall for or promote conspiracy theories. I think you're a curious person who does a lot of research and are open-minded to all options. Most of the links and quotes you've posted have been good science. As for connecting dots, that often requires making assumptions. Connecting a set of dots in one way can point to scientifically sound conclusions whereas connecting the same set of dots in a different way can create a conspiracy theory.

As @fbov points out confirmation bias and paroidelia can lead us astray. From a scientific point of view it makes sense to try to be as objective as possible when looking for answers to explain events. Once the most logical sequence of connecting the dots is understood it's easier to see the fallacies in the conspiracy theory options.
Dave in Green is online now  
post #150 of 897 Old 05-27-2020, 12:56 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
bmcn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 6,241
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2580 Post(s)
Liked: 3482
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbov View Post
... like Italy, which had entered outbreak phase by mid-February (based on excess deaths) concentrated in the North, near the Alps.

...There are many red herrings, some very well disguised.

Stay well,
Frank
...So as Italians headed to the ski slopes and crowded into cafes and bars as normal, the Chinese inhabitants of Prato had seemingly disappeared.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-chinese/from-zero-to-hero-italys-chinese-help-beat-coronavirus-idUSKBN21I3I8
bmcn is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Coronavirus Discussion

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off