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post #8731 of 8744 Old 05-19-2020, 02:09 PM
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I watched the video and was going to join the Zoom session and completely forgot about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
However, to batpigs quote — Triad and Procella also allow nice markups and profit for the installer. There may be a fairly strong element of that “partnership” which helps their product recommendation fall within some installers’ strong, sometimes exclusive, choice —- vs. their recommendation being assumedly made on superior performance merits.
As a dealer that has researched which brands I carry, I agree. Triad and Procella keep dealers happy by having a large selection of products (in-wall & in-ceiling, etc), pricing is only available through the dealer, there is no online pricing for price shopping, and the manufacturer spends tons of money on advertising and marketing. The actual cost of the individual product components vs what the end user pays is usually quite small. Most dealers needs to sell products like this in order to make a living. Another thing to consider is that some manufacturers require an annual sales volume by the dealer with incentives for reaching certain levels.

I posted this in another thread:
I have a unique business model in that I spec theaters and try to only sell products only from companies that I have a direct relationship and contact with the owner/engineer. All of these desire for their product to sound and look the best and design for that purpose. They aren't willing to compromise for lower quality to increase profit, but they also don't "upsell" something that doesn't produce any benefit. The only exception is that I don't actually know the person responsible for designing/programming JVC projectors. However, I work with their US reps and technicians.

Speakers - JTR Speakers (Jeff Permanian)
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Music and Movie source - JRiver Media Center (Jim Hillegas and Matt Ashland)
Projector Screen - Seymour Screen Excellence (Chris Seymour)
Anamorphic Lens - Panamorph (Shawn Kelly)
Video Processing - Lumagen (Jim Peterson)
Acoustic Treatments - GIK Acoustics (Glenn & Shelly Kuras)
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post #8732 of 8744 Old 05-19-2020, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by JDontee View Post
Are you able to position the tweeter, or do they have really good off-axis performance? My biggest wish for my inwalls is to be able to aim them at the MLP.
Yes, you are able to adjust the tweeter. My MLP is in a good spot that even if they didn't have great off axis sound I wouldn't be able to tell. However I have been in the other seats and the surrounds sound good in all seats so it must not be too bad.
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post #8733 of 8744 Old 05-20-2020, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Speaking about inexpensive 8" inwalls.

Monoprice has a sale on their 8" 2 way in walls. A pair for $33 shipped.

Ummm... Wouldn't shipping cost at least half that? How is this even possible?

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=34709

Oh and not too shabby review scores either!?!?
279 reviews - 4.8 star average



A co-worker of mine just bought eight of these for his soon to be home theater. He wanted in-walls and I had been telling him to hold out for the JBLs. We saw these today at this sale price, and I told him if he didn't want to wait for the JBL refurb sale, to pick these up and give them a try - at $15 a speaker he's not out much, and if he doesn't like them he can probably sell them without losing much and buy the JBL 8" in wall next time they do show up on sale -- and even use pretty much the same cut out holes.
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post #8734 of 8744 Old 05-20-2020, 07:12 PM
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I finally got around to watching the final Star Wars.

I think I liked it... I didn't mean to, it just kinda happened.

I think it may have been because my expectations were about as low as they have ever been for a movie. I think I just sat back and enjoyed all the feels from the BOSS. It was absolutely nuts with the lightning to the sky from Palpatine.

Unrelated, who else has watched The Expanse on Prime? I finished season 2 last night, this show just keeps getting better.
The Expanse absolutely does get better as the seasons progress. It was essentially dropped by Scy Fy and then improves after being picked up again by Amazon Prime but with a larger budget. The black levels in the show are nothing short of jaw dropping. After the Mandalorian debuted I thought the black levels were pretty good and I was quickly corrected by some eagle eyed dorks on the forum....jk. I just got excited and my judgement took a back seat. After doing a back to back with The Mandalorian and The Expanse they have a radically different idea about the color black. So the AVS dorks that ripped me apart were right.

I am jealous of the unfiltered ROS BOSS experience. Maybe one day.....
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post #8735 of 8744 Old 05-20-2020, 07:18 PM
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Expanse is great. Wanna talk about black levels? That show and Altered Carbon get it done better than any other show I've seen. Kinda funny an amazon original series can get space to look right and Disney can't...
I just watched AC and it was a phenomenal showcase of HDR. It was so good in fact that I chose to watch it on my OLED instead of having the better sound experience in my HT. I really liked the basic idea of the show and the darker sci fi take. Season 1 is just so good and even though season 2 was inferior I am still looking forward to season 3.
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post #8736 of 8744 Old 05-20-2020, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post
I just watched AC and it was a phenomenal showcase of HDR. It was so good in fact that I chose to watch it on my OLED instead of having the better sound experience in my HT. I really liked the basic idea of the show and the darker sci fi take. Season 1 is just so good and even though season 2 was inferior I am still looking forward to season 3.


I had the same feelings, Grant. Season 1 was so so good and the. I actually couldn’t even muscle through episode 1 of season 2. Just didn’t holdup compared to the first season.
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post #8737 of 8744 Old 05-20-2020, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post
The Expanse absolutely does get better as the seasons progress. It was essentially dropped by Scy Fy and then improves after being picked up again by Amazon Prime but with a larger budget. The black levels in the show are nothing short of jaw dropping. After the Mandalorian debuted I thought the black levels were pretty good and I was quickly corrected by some eagle eyed dorks on the forum....jk. I just got excited and my judgement took a back seat. After doing a back to back with The Mandalorian and The Expanse they have a radically different idea about the color black. So the AVS dorks that ripped me apart were right.

I am jealous of the unfiltered ROS BOSS experience. Maybe one day.....
Do you know how many seasons were on Sci Fy and how many are on Prime?
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post #8738 of 8744 Old 05-20-2020, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Do you know how many seasons were on Sci Fy and how many are on Prime?
Three on Syfy, 1 on Prime (so far). Though, all the seasons are on Prime now (and much better quality than on Syfy).

I'm finally getting around to season 4. Watching episode 3 as I type this.
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post #8739 of 8744 Old 05-21-2020, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
What's a decent cheap webcam recommendation these days from those of you who do more streaming? I'm using an old xbox 360 USB2 camera - it's merely okay. Or do you have to spend significant money to get much of an upgrade? I tried my wife's 1080P logitech webcam from about the same timeframe, and it was no better than the Xbox cam - and it doesn't have a focus ring - so it's worse really.
I use my cell phone. I'm not sure what's on a PC, but I spent 8 bucks for an app so I can use my iPhone with my Mac. I can even set the bitrate and resolution. So... 8 bucks for the camera in my iPhone XR, which is definitely better than most webcams. The catch is you have to bring your own mic. I use my UMIK. lol. Between that mic and my cell phone, most calls someone notices that I'm looking and sounding better than most.
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post #8740 of 8744 Old 05-22-2020, 11:01 AM
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The catch is you have to bring your own mic. I use my UMIK. lol.
I've been using my Omnimic for Zoom meetings. @Archaea , you could do the same.
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post #8741 of 8744 Old 05-22-2020, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Kansas City Area Home Theater Meets and Movie Night Events!

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Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
I've been using my Omnimic for Zoom meetings. @Archaea , you could do the same.


That's a good idea and one I had not considered before you and Chirpie presented the idea here. However for the mic, I'm set. A few years back I bought a Blue Yeti mic and it works well for the audio recording side. It's nice to have a mute button handy with it. (on it).


Archaea's 9.8.4 Home Theater Room
208, 1" tweeters | 52, 5" woofers | 8, 18" subwoofers

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post #8742 of 8744 Old Yesterday, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
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as cheap as the Ultimax UM18-22 go...
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/122-g...er-coupon.html

Archaea's 9.8.4 Home Theater Room
208, 1" tweeters | 52, 5" woofers | 8, 18" subwoofers
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post #8743 of 8744 Old Yesterday, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
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Regarding our Zoom call last night when I was talking about how I came to use Triad in-wall & in-ceiling speakers in my new, dedicated HT. Coincidentally, the same day was this post over on the Triad owner's thread. I didn't even know all this when I chose Triad with no reviews or demos to help in the decision process (the same could be said for my purchase of JTR subs). They were a blind buy. But the following is nice to know about my speakers.
I also had Triad in wall speakers as my surrounds in my initial build. I do think they make a good product. It is kind of an unfortunate reality that hidden prices and dealer mark ups are part of their business model. That business model doesn't mean the product isn't high quality but it could mean you are paying a little more for that performance versus something else. The dealer I worked with for my room was very specific with what brands I could use. It was presented to me essentially as quality control and that does make sense. They want to know the real data on the speaker that they are designing a room for and not many manufacturers provide it. Eventually their unwillingness to look at any other brands for any aspect of the room became frustrating. Most of their revenue comes from selling the equipment that goes into the room. It's not terrible or anything it's just the way it is.

Another big reason that custom installers spec Triad is they design architectural speakers around the product being hidden for a clean look. This is important to attract high end clients who will spend the big bucks. I sent in a sample of my GOM fabric and they color matched the speaker grill perfectly. It was pretty slick and looked nice installed.

So just to address the following quote from the Triad thread.

"With respect, I know it's frustrating to be an enthusiast and not see all the data you want.... but remember that Triad is trusted by nearly every top custom installer in the world. Not just average joe local installers, but the famous guys like Dennis Erskine, Anthony Grimani, Shawn Byrne who are building world-class theaters that win CEDIA awards. And, also, not only are these big names, they are also HT acoustics experts and thought leaders who don't just slap a product into a room and call it a day, these are the guys doing custom acoustic designs by making calculations based on what they know about speaker directivity / off-axis response. They would NOT use Triad speakers if they didn't have great measurements, i.e. consistent, predictable performance with low distortion and excellent off-axis response.

And Dolby trusts them to test and develop new technology, they used Triad speakers to demo Atmos when it first came out in 2014 and last CEDIA they chose Triad for their super high channel count Trinnov demo room which won awards.

My feeling is that is that if ALL of these top pros trust Triad in their flagship theater designs, what possible reason is there for you or me, amateur HT guy, to doubt that they are high performing products? What are you or me going to figure out looking at some spinoramas or polar plots that Dennis Erskine or Anthony Grimani didn't?

At a certain point, it's safe to accept even without a personal audition that Triads are superb performing, robust and reliable designs that do what they claim to.

I started collecting used Triad, "sight unheard", simply because of this reputation they've established. I have never heard anyone who owns them be displeased with their performance. Zero regrets. Sometimes people overthink this stuff."

My theater was designed by Shawn when he was with Erskine Group. Even after talking to Dennis himself I got nowhere in my quest for them to spec out equipment that wasn't behind a hidden price list.

I am fairly sure that certain custom installers who have a partnership with Triad are given detailed information about their speakers. It is baffling to me that they will not release that information to the public or allow a third party to analyze their speakers so the data can be known. You can find more data on the lowliest of JBL products than the most costly Triad.

When I went Atmos I contacted them again to purchase speakers and I was offered those Dolby partnership speakers that Triad developed. It was super secretive and they wouldn't even tell me exactly what the speakers were made of. Like not even driver configuration and of course not the price. It was this nebulous moving target but at every turn I was so very lucky to even have the opportunity to purchase them. In the end they were basically up firing drivers relying on reflection for ambience. As my Atmos journey continued over the years I went from Volt 6 to JBL SCS 8 and eventually to JTR S8's and each time moved them closer to my MLP. It turns out I just wanted something different than what the installer assumed.

I would not blindly trust the installers but I do have a lot of respect for what they do and I humbly submit that my knowledge is far inferior. I have fundamentally changed the surround speaker layout from my pro design and it has resulted in dramatic improvements. I would bet that if I installed a high end Triad surround in my current locations I would be impressed with them.

I was just drooling lately over the Triad Platinum LCR because there is a demo set for sale on Ebay. They are the main speakers in the best theater that Jonathon had ever been to a few years ago. A soft dome tweeter with a horn wave guide. I would love to hear some in my own room up against the JTR 212 3 ways.

In short for a blind buy I think you made a fantastic choice. It is a quality product no doubt and I can see myself owning them again under the right circumstances. What you will find on AVS over and over again regarding speaker choice is people basically poo pooing anything that isn't DIY because you must be some kind of fool to throw all that money away. But not everyone wants to make their own speakers. And not everyone wants their speakers to be seen. The price performance police just won't accept that.

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post #8744 of 8744 Old Yesterday, 08:25 PM
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Maybe things were different a few years ago as far as Triad pricing. The MSRP is readily available and I bought them at the typical discounts you see on most other AV gear. The dealer didn't push Triad, just mentioned them as something I should take a look at given my desire for a clean look. I looked on the AVS Triad owners page, and decided they were pretty perfect for an in-wall/in-ceiling system.

Price-wise, probably more expensive than JBL, but less costly than JTR (although the JTR subs I bought are a better value, mainly because the Triad subs are also mostly in-wall). While I like the the big JTR subs sitting on the floor (I can hide them well in the corners if desired, but I like them in my face), I wouldn't like the their big surround & Atmos speakers hanging all over. Price-wise, I think Triad is competitive with the big brands: JBL, Klipsch, B&W, PSB, etc.

I think the system sounds & looks great. No complaints. I doubt I could do better within the budget spent. To my ears, which aren't professional ears (although they are big ears), I can't imagine much better. I know there is better, but it would probably be a lot more money for a small performance increase.

Same could be said for my Epson 6050. I'm sure the JVC NX-5 is better, but at twice the price, not sure it's that much better for me. Yeah, the blacks bother me sometimes, but I don't know if it's the movie itself or if the projector could make a difference. Certainly, nobody else beside myself notices the blacks. The rest of the Epson is pretty dazzling. I'll probably never see them side by side to know.

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