February 2017 - Kansas City Home Theater Crawl - Page 13 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #361 of 1408 Old 12-05-2016, 02:47 PM
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Good to know about the black levels. My theater has really great light control and I can appreciate the extra picture quality the jvc brings to the table so it seems a shame not to take advantage of that.

I am pretty bummed about the hdr though. I am coming to the same conclusion as you in my interest to just strip it out of the signal altogether. Disappointing considering what you pay for one of these things and flat panels costing a fraction offer good hdr. Just no way around it I guess.

Remains to be seen if I feel stripping the hdr will represent an overall upgrade to the image. So I am really interested in what you come up with.
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post #362 of 1408 Old 12-05-2016, 04:05 PM
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It could be in the 60's and nice or cold and snowing. On average it is usually in the upper 30's to mid 40's. The forecast right now is high in the upper 30's, lows in the 20's for the weekend. Hopefully no snow.
Thanks!
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post #363 of 1408 Old 12-05-2016, 04:22 PM
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My wife and I would like to attend.

(Kim and Ted)
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post #364 of 1408 Old 12-05-2016, 04:51 PM - Thread Starter
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My wife and I would like to attend.

(Kim and Ted)
Added to the first post.

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post #365 of 1408 Old 12-05-2016, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
just poking fun but if we go down Sheldon's display list since 2011 it looks something like this


  1. HDTV
  2. Unknown
  3. Epson 8350
  4. Epson 8350
  5. Epson 8350
  6. Epson 8350
  7. Epson 8350
  8. Epson 8350
  9. Panasonic AE8000U
  10. Epson 3500
  11. Epson 5040


of course I can't talk too loud - I went through 5 of the Epson 8350's myself with QC issues - but this is about Sheldon.



There has been one thing constant. One thing I can rely on. One thing I always know will be there when I visit his space. That trusty old Pioneer Elite AVR. In the sea of change that is Sheldon's room - that Pioneer has been old faithful.

I returned the Panny, so I don't count that - but - it did take 3 tries to get a good Epson 3500 (wouldn't focus on the whole screen at the same time) so I could add 2 more of those to the list.

I'm typing on the big screen right now, the clarity for PC is easily better compared to the 3500. I'll do some comparison picks in my room thread at some point.

Jonathan, could you see the difference in the football players faces on your home computer?
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post #366 of 1408 Old 12-05-2016, 05:39 PM
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Thank You! Very much looking forward to this, and booking a holiday around the KC HT Crawl.
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post #367 of 1408 Old 12-05-2016, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post
Well for the best overall image it really kinda comes down to the black levels and contrast ratio with a few caveats of course. So that one thing you mention about the black levels happens to be really important. However if light control in your room is sub par then that extra image quality could be completely lost in your situation. So it might not make sense to spend more for a pj with better black/contrast ratio vs getting one that is super bright and incredibly sharp. That's what you want for your Big (unreasonably large) screen and poor light control. I think you are exactly on track with this one!!

What is wrong with the way the 5040 handles hdr?

I ask bc I will have to get another pj just for gaming bc of the lag issue you mentioned. I also don't like the long warm up time for the rs400 but especially annoyed by the super duper long time to lock onto a signal when switching inputs or when starting playback of any source.

In addition I am curious to see how my image looks with the hdr stripped. I plan on using the oppo203 to do this. I would still get the resolution bump and importantly the wide color gamut.

So anyway if someone could prove to me that the 5040 does not give up much to the rs400 in contrast ratio/black levels I would be up for trading out pj's.
It has a 12 thingamajiggy in it and it needs 18 for HDR to work on any source except for 4K disk players.

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Coming from the epson ls10k to the Rs500 I can at least say that if black levels are important to you, the 5040 will not satisfy you in the least. I am working the HD fury integral into my system tonight to strip HDR as even with plenty of lumens to spare, even the brightest PJ outside of the 5 digit ones isn't going to really get you there.

Are you saying the blacks are better on the rs500 or the ls10k?
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post #368 of 1408 Old 12-06-2016, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post
Good to know about the black levels. My theater has really great light control and I can appreciate the extra picture quality the jvc brings to the table so it seems a shame not to take advantage of that.

I am pretty bummed about the hdr though. I am coming to the same conclusion as you in my interest to just strip it out of the signal altogether. Disappointing considering what you pay for one of these things and flat panels costing a fraction offer good hdr. Just no way around it I guess.

Remains to be seen if I feel stripping the hdr will represent an overall upgrade to the image. So I am really interested in what you come up with.
The Integral essentially strips the HDR while still maintaining the BT2020 color space which is where the best improvements over standard 1080P/Rec709 color space can really be seen. A few guys have calibrated to get the PJ close to good with HDR still in, but it requires a lot more work, high lamp mode, and a significant jump in the black floor. By taking out HDR, you get to retain that excellent black floor of the JVC, maintain the extremely high contrast ratio (that is also lost in the process with HDR), and get the richer colors of BT2020. I say all this without experience though. I tried everything I possibly could to get the integral to work with my panny player last night and couldn't get it to pass jack squat to the PJ. All other sources worked fine, so I just don't get it but will continue to troubleshoot.

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It has a 12 thingamajiggy in it and it needs 18 for HDR to work on any source except for 4K disk players.




Are you saying the blacks are better on the rs500 or the ls10k?
the rs500 (or other JVCs for that matter) have better blacks. It is what they are known best for. I am saying that however with a very important caveat:

While the JVC clearly wins in contrast ratio, brightness, and black level, in ALL other aspects I felt like the epson was a better machine. Well what else is there other than those things you ask? The epson IMO clearly won out on color uniformity, image stability, motion (panning and frame interpolation), and minus just needing a bit more brightness, I actually liked 3d better on it with the 120hz rate glasses.

I almost went for the 5040 carp, but I was approached with a good deal on the JVC and wanted to at least check it out
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post #369 of 1408 Old 12-06-2016, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
The Integral essentially strips the HDR while still maintaining the BT2020 color space which is where the best improvements over standard 1080P/Rec709 color space can really be seen. A few guys have calibrated to get the PJ close to good with HDR still in, but it requires a lot more work, high lamp mode, and a significant jump in the black floor. By taking out HDR, you get to retain that excellent black floor of the JVC, maintain the extremely high contrast ratio (that is also lost in the process with HDR), and get the richer colors of BT2020. I say all this without experience though. I tried everything I possibly could to get the integral to work with my panny player last night and couldn't get it to pass jack squat to the PJ. All other sources worked fine, so I just don't get it but will continue to troubleshoot.



the rs500 (or other JVCs for that matter) have better blacks. It is what they are known best for. I am saying that however with a very important caveat:

While the JVC clearly wins in contrast ratio, brightness, and black level, in ALL other aspects I felt like the epson was a better machine. Well what else is there other than those things you ask? The epson IMO clearly won out on color uniformity, image stability, motion (panning and frame interpolation), and minus just needing a bit more brightness, I actually liked 3d better on it with the 120hz rate glasses.

I almost went for the 5040 carp, but I was approached with a good deal on the JVC and wanted to at least check it out

Do you play games? I hear the 5040 is good for that but the JVC's not so much. It may or may not matter for me... I keep thinking I might get a console someday but never seem to get around to it. That and I hate all these play against other people on line type games. That would be no fun for me, I'm used to having an A and B button and 4 directions to move and that's it.
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post #370 of 1408 Old 12-06-2016, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Do you play games? I hear the 5040 is good for that but the JVC's not so much. It may or may not matter for me... I keep thinking I might get a console someday but never seem to get around to it. That and I hate all these play against other people on line type games. That would be no fun for me, I'm used to having an A and B button and 4 directions to move and that's it.
You outa get the nintendo special edition model then:



It's got a ton of games preloaded on it. Most of the old but best ones from the original NES, haha.

Yes I do play games, but don't really do the online FPS stuff as much as I used to. I haven't tried the JVC on it yet, but knew of the lag situation going in. I tried many times with the epson's settings maxed out to create the most lag I could (upwards of 150ms) and still didn't find any real issues with my particular games, except for guitar hero, but you can adjust lag in guitar hero to compensate.

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post #371 of 1408 Old 12-06-2016, 09:08 AM
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I really like the image of the Jvc rs400 but the adjustments are kind of a PITA and seem a bit limited.
For the 2016 models, JVC moved the gamma correction to the JVC Calibration Software V7. You don't need a meter attached to use the manual gamma correction with the software, but a meter is necessary to set the gamma correctly. Maybe its just because I own one, but I find JVC's menu system to be the easiest to use and the most in-depth of any display. You can even access important settings immediately with the remote without having to drill down in a menu. You can also make changes while measuring. Some displays require you to make a change, save it, get out of the menu, and then measure, get back in the menu, drill down to the correct setting, make a change again, repeat.

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post #372 of 1408 Old 12-06-2016, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
I'm not sure about the brightness, but the rs400 has better blacks I believe. I've been told by someone that has seen both projectors at the same time that the 5040 is subjectively brighter and clearer. I think the rs400 has better blacks if you are in a dark room, I don't think by a ton though. The 5040 has all kinds of issues with not being compatible for HDR with everything but 4k players, but on a screen my size there is no way I'm using HDR anyway so I don't care about that.
Interested in a direct comparison between an RS500 and the 5040 in your room on December 18?
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post #373 of 1408 Old 12-06-2016, 10:44 AM
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Interested in a direct comparison between an RS500 and the 5040 in your room on December 18?
That would be a killer comparison I would love to see the results from. I know what I've read of other opinion and what to expect, but I'd love to hear ya'll's as well!

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post #374 of 1408 Old 12-06-2016, 01:58 PM
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Interested in a direct comparison between an RS500 and the 5040 in your room on December 18?
Yep!! I replied to your email.
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post #375 of 1408 Old 12-06-2016, 02:34 PM
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post #376 of 1408 Old 12-06-2016, 06:31 PM
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Are there going to any JBL 4722's on the tour? I did not read through the whole thread to see who has what. I have yet to hear them. Would be nice to finally get a listen to them in a good room.

I'm actually debating throwing in 4722 up front. I don't think anyone in kc runs them.
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post #377 of 1408 Old 12-06-2016, 06:40 PM
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What did u do???? I've been out of the loop for a while. Did u throw in 4722n? Plus 215rt?????

What?
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post #378 of 1408 Old 12-06-2016, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm actually debating throwing in 4722 up front. I don't think anyone in kc runs them.
@MrSmithers runs 4722 in KC.

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post #379 of 1408 Old 12-07-2016, 07:34 AM
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What did u do???? I've been out of the loop for a while. Did u throw in 4722n? Plus 215rt?????

What?
Here is his thread. He sold the 215RT's and bought 4722n's.

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post #380 of 1408 Old 12-07-2016, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
You outa get the nintendo special edition model then:



It's got a ton of games preloaded on it. Most of the old but best ones from the original NES, haha.

Yes I do play games, but don't really do the online FPS stuff as much as I used to. I haven't tried the JVC on it yet, but knew of the lag situation going in. I tried many times with the epson's settings maxed out to create the most lag I could (upwards of 150ms) and still didn't find any real issues with my particular games, except for guitar hero, but you can adjust lag in guitar hero to compensate.
Good luck finding one of those things. I want one as well. Nintendo is limiting the supply or they are doing a very poor job. It would be cool to put one of these in front of my kids to see what they think since they are almost the same age I was when the NES first came out. That was 1985 and I was 7........it blew my mind! Admittedly, the Xbox Kinect is more appropriate for the skill of 3 and 5 year olds though.

And for those that don't know about the "mini" NES classic it's great short coming is that the cords for the controllers are like 2.5 feet long!!!! Almost unforgivable. There is a third party market for extenders that I will purchase when/if I can get my hands on one of these.

The lag on the JVC did bother me. I am not a good gamer. I don't play online FPS. But, even games like Mario Galaxy for example had lag that took me out of the experience. Games like Resogun for PS4 were even worse. I am looking at getting a $500 ballpark gaming PJ like the BenQ 1075 or similar Epson 2040.
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post #381 of 1408 Old 12-07-2016, 12:12 PM
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Nintendo is limiting the supply or they are doing a very poor job.
Personally, I would say they are doing a really great job of limiting supply :P

Edit: Also, it should be noted that Nintendo isn't planning on actually cutting off sales of these. In about 6 weeks, they should be a bit more obtainable
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post #382 of 1408 Old 12-08-2016, 06:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Added smoovranger to the attendee list based on a PM he sent me.

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post #383 of 1408 Old 12-08-2016, 06:54 PM
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Our flight and rental car is booked. We're building a holiday around the HT Crawl.
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post #384 of 1408 Old 12-08-2016, 09:47 PM
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Added smoovranger to the attendee list based on a PM he sent me.
Thanks Archaea, looking forward to it!

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post #385 of 1408 Old 12-09-2016, 06:46 AM
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You outa get the nintendo special edition model then:



It's got a ton of games preloaded on it. Most of the old but best ones from the original NES, haha.

Yes I do play games, but don't really do the online FPS stuff as much as I used to. I haven't tried the JVC on it yet, but knew of the lag situation going in. I tried many times with the epson's settings maxed out to create the most lag I could (upwards of 150ms) and still didn't find any real issues with my particular games, except for guitar hero, but you can adjust lag in guitar hero to compensate.
I wanted one also, but then I thought about it. We have wii and wiiu and my daughter downloads the old NES games right to the wiiu. We have been doing it for a few years now. Next best option if you don't find one. I would also wait as you will find this in Dollar General after Christmas for $25 bucks. I bought a mini Atari and Sega a couple of years ago for $20 a piece after Christmas.
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post #386 of 1408 Old 12-09-2016, 06:48 AM
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Here you go Dave!







I don't have the upgraded CD's yet, and I need to put all the insulation back behind the screen but I already know that where the mains are is not a good place for 2 channel music. 2 channel from this position does not compare to what you heard in my room with the 215's out wide in front of the screen. It is however, the perfect place for movies or multi channel music blu rays and my priorities have been changing.

Still deciding what material to put below the screen to cover the speakers.
Oh wow, LOL I have been absent. I pop in once in a week and peek around, but do not get on here like I use to. To wrapped up in the election right now. Cool, looks like I will be getting a listen to them finally.
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post #387 of 1408 Old 12-09-2016, 06:59 AM
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Any of you guys frequent flyers? I fly a few times a year, but looking for a flight from Philly to KC 2/17 morning leaving Sunday 2/19. Any one have anything you use for the cheapest price? I am finding $350 round trip non stop, would like to do better, but $350 is good. Not sure if I can fly out of AC or not, but would rather not use Spirt. Thanks
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post #388 of 1408 Old 12-09-2016, 07:20 AM
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Any of you guys frequent flyers? I fly a few times a year, but looking for a flight from Philly to KC 2/17 morning leaving Sunday 2/19. Any one have anything you use for the cheapest price? I am finding $350 round trip non stop, would like to do better, but $350 is good. Not sure if I can fly out of AC or not, but would rather not use Spirt. Thanks
Cheapest non-stop I've ever been able to do from KC to Philly round trip was right around $300 on US Airways.We usually book through travelocity...
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post #389 of 1408 Old 12-09-2016, 07:47 AM
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Oh wow, LOL I have been absent. I pop in once in a week and peek around, but do not get on here like I use to. To wrapped up in the election right now. Cool, looks like I will be getting a listen to them finally.
The election is over. You are going to give yourself a heart-attack.

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post #390 of 1408 Old 12-09-2016, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
Any of you guys frequent flyers? I fly a few times a year, but looking for a flight from Philly to KC 2/17 morning leaving Sunday 2/19. Any one have anything you use for the cheapest price? I am finding $350 round trip non stop, would like to do better, but $350 is good. Not sure if I can fly out of AC or not, but would rather not use Spirt. Thanks

From Philly to KC and back again keep an eye out on Frontier. They sometimes have specials for $49 one way - but their flights are "seasonal" between Philly and KC and right now they aren't even offered. (my wife's family is in Philly area) - We've caught those a few times.


You can sign up at airfarewatchdog.com and sign up for the e-mail alert on the trip you want -- that's how my wife sometimes gets us cheap tickets.

Otherwise SouthWest is usually the cheapest major airline and we can get roundtrip tickets through Southwest for $225ish. SouthWest does NOT advertise through the fare compare type sites - you have to book directly through SouthWest, and their sales aren't necessarily advertise.
Looks like reasonable times right now are about $341 roundtrip through SouthWest. I'll ask my wife when she thinks the best sales will be to keep an eye out.
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Archaea's 9.8.4 Home Theater Room
(13) JBL CBT 70j-1 | Denon x7200wa | Sherbourn PA 7-350 amplifier | (8) Ultimax 18" sealed subwoofers | (4) iNuke DSP 6000 amplifiers | (4) MB Quart 12" subwoofers mounted direct mounted to Berkline theater chairs BOSS style | Epson 5040UB Projector | Jamestown 144" acoustic transparent 2.35:1 screen w/ Seymour XD fabric

Last edited by Archaea; 12-09-2016 at 09:40 AM.
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