February 2017 - Kansas City Home Theater Crawl - Page 44 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1291 of 1408 Old 03-02-2017, 01:43 PM - Thread Starter
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IMO --- nearfield sealed subs need to be immediately next to the seats --- firing into the bottom, back, etc. Probably ideally within the proximity of the driver's diameter.


IE --- if an 18" sub - the cone should be within 18" of your back. Luke Kamp said something to me like that one time, and I generally agree with his preference. I started nearfield with three 10" Infinity drivers in sealed boxes, and while it was fantastic if they were immediately next to the back of the chair, I got basically nothing by the time I put them on the floor. HUGE tactile feedback as compared to nothing. As carp mentioned earlier - when he leans back over his angled driver as his chair reclines - it produces much more feel. Same here, though my boxes aren't angled. Just reclining the chair back is a BIG difference.

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post #1292 of 1408 Old 03-02-2017, 01:51 PM
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I was just reading about someone doing something similar in the DIY threads.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...fers-ht-2.html
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post #1293 of 1408 Old 03-02-2017, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladeback View Post
in building my theater I was wondering if I could make the third row bar into a near field sub?
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post #1294 of 1408 Old 03-02-2017, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stitch1 View Post
@Ladeback
I was just reading about someone doing something similar in the DIY threads.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...fers-ht-2.html
@stitch1 , cool thread, but this maybe is a little over my head right now. I think I will stick to a normal bar for now.

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post #1295 of 1408 Old 03-02-2017, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Slam a real door in real life and spec lab it. You'll likely see content all the way down to the single digits. You don't experience it like when a sub recreates because the dynamic peaks you get higher in freq drown out the effect of the extremely low freqs. Something even the very best speakers can't do. Tom Danley in a whitepaper has mentioned that just simply dropping a spoon onto the floor could have real world dynamic peaks of 150dB. That's astounding, yet we get those extremely brief peaks in our lives much more often than we would ever think. I car door slamming, 140-150dB, but it's so quick that we never think twice.
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Originally Posted by cvinfig View Post
I found this a little hard to believe so I just slammed my car door inside a closed garage multiple times with Radio Shack SPL meter in hand. I got the highest reading with the meter set to Fast Response and C-Weighted, and that was 110 dB.
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Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
I should give it a try with my ACO mic and MOTU preamp.

EDIT - ha - just finished reading through the posts and see Luke beat me to this. You know what they say about great minds...
I just measured this on my 2003 Explorer and outside the car a very casual close of the door registered a consistent 125db peak. A good slam was just over 130db.

What was interesting though is what happened when I put the mic inside the car:


134db peak.


A decent slam of the door:


141db peak.


Even just opening the door registered over 120db:



Get an older car with a heavier door and a more "metallic" slam and yeah, I think 150db transients would be pretty easy.
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post #1296 of 1408 Old 03-02-2017, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladeback View Post
Now for something completely different, in building my theater I was wondering if I could make the third row bar into a near field sub? The cabinet would be around 3.3'x11'x1'. Would that be big enough to handle 3-12" or 3-18" subs? I am new to the near field sub thing so any help would greatly be appropriated. This is just a concept right now no plans yet.
I have a little DTS-10 in my bar in the back of the room. The final picture partially shows it "finished". Black GOM on top of 3/4" MDF painted flat black. My second row seats will be just in front of this bar.
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post #1297 of 1408 Old 03-02-2017, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Ladeback View Post
Now for something completely different, in building my theater I was wondering if I could make the third row bar into a near field sub? The cabinet would be around 3.3'x11'x1'. Would that be big enough to handle 3-12" or 3-18" subs? I am new to the near field sub thing so any help would greatly be appropriated. This is just a concept right now no plans yet.


I'm planning on doing the same thing with 3 or 4 18's. I'll likely go with a few pro drivers like Dayton PA460's in modified VBSS enclosures and might incorporate a SI HST18 as well directly behind the money seat. From reading the nearfield thread, it sounds like ported is the way to go. I hope to achieve sufficient volume of the boxes by having them be taller (40 inches or so, allowing for a bar top), wider, and as shallow as possible (limited by driver size). The subs and ports would fire forward into the seats, and i would trim out the back to make it look nice. I think with your height and width you'd be fine. I'll do a build thread once I get started, but that's over a year away. Looking forward to seeing you pull it off before me!


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post #1298 of 1408 Old 03-02-2017, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DaveyK View Post
I'm planning on doing the same thing with 3 or 4 18's. I'll likely go with a few pro drivers like Dayton PA460's in modified VBSS enclosures and might incorporate a SI HST18 as well directly behind the money seat. From reading the nearfield thread, it sounds like ported is the way to go. I hope to achieve sufficient volume of the boxes by having them be taller (40 inches or so, allowing for a bar top), wider, and as shallow as possible (limited by driver size). The subs and ports would fire forward into the seats, and i would trim out the back to make it look nice. I think with your height and width you'd be fine. I'll do a build thread once I get started, but that's over a year away. Looking forward to seeing you pull it off before me!


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Subjective I'm sure, but I don't really like ported nearfield.
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post #1299 of 1408 Old 03-02-2017, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Subjective I'm sure, but I don't really like ported nearfield.


I'll definitely try it out before I implement it. I think it is supposed to increase TR around port tune. I also read a lot about people turning down the nearfield subs by a few db's so they're not as overpowering. Sealed would certainly allow for smaller enclosures. I'll either be doing 2 OS LFU's or 4000 ULF's up front, so I might also go with what will be easier to integrate with whatever I go with.


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post #1300 of 1408 Old 03-02-2017, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post
I just measured this on my 2003 Explorer and outside the car a very casual close of the door registered a consistent 125db peak. A good slam was just over 130db.

What was interesting though is what happened when I put the mic inside the car:

134db peak.


A decent slam of the door:

141db peak.


Even just opening the door registered over 120db:


Get an older car with a heavier door and a more "metallic" slam and yeah, I think 150db transients would be pretty easy.
Wait...waht?


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Peak is for wimps.

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post #1301 of 1408 Old 03-02-2017, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
Wait...waht?





Lol, I was wondering how long that would take.
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post #1302 of 1408 Old 03-02-2017, 06:27 PM
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Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #1303 of 1408 Old 03-03-2017, 03:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyK View Post
I'm planning on doing the same thing with 3 or 4 18's. I'll likely go with a few pro drivers like Dayton PA460's in modified VBSS enclosures and might incorporate a SI HST18 as well directly behind the money seat. From reading the nearfield thread, it sounds like ported is the way to go. I hope to achieve sufficient volume of the boxes by having them be taller (40 inches or so, allowing for a bar top), wider, and as shallow as possible (limited by driver size). The subs and ports would fire forward into the seats, and i would trim out the back to make it look nice. I think with your height and width you'd be fine. I'll do a build thread once I get started, but that's over a year away. Looking forward to seeing you pull it off before me!


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Sounds like you have a better plan then me and I still need to get get my theater built first. Mine was just a wild hair idea, but looks like it could be possible. You will probably have something before I do. No I do have an older down firing ported sub I could play with for now to what it does. Will see what happens.

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post #1304 of 1408 Old 03-03-2017, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
IMO --- nearfield sealed subs need to be immediately next to the seats --- firing into the bottom, back, etc. Probably ideally within the proximity of the driver's diameter.


IE --- if an 18" sub - the cone should be within 18" of your back. Luke Kamp said something to me like that one time, and I generally agree with his preference. I started nearfield with three 10" Infinity drivers in sealed boxes, and while it was fantastic if they were immediately next to the back of the chair, I got basically nothing by the time I put them on the floor. HUGE tactile feedback as compared to nothing. As carp mentioned earlier - when he leans back over his angled driver as his chair reclines - it produces much more feel. Same here, though my boxes aren't angled. Just reclining the chair back is a BIG difference.
There's a lot of good discussion with regards to the near field and its benefits. I wanted to take a moment and define it based on what I've researched. Caveat: I'm an enthusiast not a scientist.

I originally talked about the nearfield almost 4 years ago in this post.

I will try and summarize it below and use the ISO 12001 definition of near field:

First defining Sound Intensity:

Sound Intensity (SIL) = pressure (SPL) * particle velocity (PVL)

Sound intensity has a direction as particle velocity is a vector quantity. This means it has a magnitude and direction. Pressure is a scalar quantity and has a magnitude, but no direction.

Sound Energy is a form of energy associated with the vibration of matter.

Sound Intensity is sound energy per unit time per unit area.

Sound Intensity is how we 'feel' sound on our bodies.

While bass waves are said to be omnidirectional (meaning we cannot locate the sound with our ears), the intensity of those waves are directional. This means we can feel where the waves are coming from in the right conditions. (e.g. Feel a NF sub with the driver pointed directly at your LP and then turn it 180 degrees away and see if you can feel the difference; the answer is yes.).

Now, on to Sound Fields...

Sound travels through various Sound Fields.
  • Far Field - Pressure and Particle Velocity are in phase. In this sound field, because they are in phase, when SPL peaks, so does PVL. Therefore, to understand Intensity, you just need to measure one of the quantities (SPL). When we measure SPL in the far field, we can expect that the Intensity will be the same regardless of the distance (e.g. 115db 25ft away will feel the same as 115db 40ft away).
  • Near Field - Pressure and Particle Velocity are NOT in phase (as defined by ISO 12001). This means that when PVL is at its peak, SPL is not. In fact, in the Near Field, PVL is greater than SPL in the Near Field (see page 2-15 in this paper). This is commonly referred to as "the near field effect". This means to get an understanding of Intensity (or how we feel sound) in the near field, we need to know SPL and PVL.
  • Near Field Region - ISO 12001 (see 1.1.2.2 in prior link) defines that a frequency is in the near field if it is within a wavelength. An 80hz wave is 13.7Ft. A 20hz wave is 54.8Ft. Given those lengths and the placement of our subs from the LP, most bass waves in the typical home theater room will be considered in the near field; meaning to understand Intensity or how we feel sound, SPL measurements are just not enough. We also need to understand PVL.
  • The Very Near Field It is the sound field that is very close to the source (see page 2-16 in prior link) where it behaves more like an incompressible fluid. This means there is very little SPL, and mostly PVL. The paper describes that this region occurs when the distance r from the moving object (speaker cone) is much smaller than both the wavelength *and* the object dimension L (eq. 2.36), which in our case would correspond to the driver diameter. Being that these ULF frequencies are much greater in length than the typical subwoofer diameter, the very near field would be the driver diameter (15in, 18in, 21in, depending on sub).

What does this all mean in practice...

The majority of sub frequencies in our HT's exist in the near field. This means that just understanding SPL is not enough to understand Intensity, or how we 'feel' sound.

Sound intensity is dependent on distance. The closer to the source, the more intensity you will have. It is also directional.

In the Very Near Field (meets @Archaea 's description), the physics starts to enter fluid dynamics and starts to behave differently than the near field. It is said that this has high levels of PVL in this field relative to SPL.

To optimize (have the highest levels) Intensity:
  • Put the sub as close as possible. You'll get additional Intensity if the proximity of the LP is less than the driver diameter of the sub.
  • Use ported, horn, bandpass, etc.; anything with a vent. Hornresp has modeled particle velocity, and the models show increased levels of PVL compared to sealed in the near field. However, what it does not model is the behavior of the Very Near Field.


Sources:

https://www.bksv.com/media/doc/br0476.pdf
http://www.who.int/occupational_heal...ons/noise1.pdf
http://www.microflown.com/files/medi..._vibration.pdf


Measuring Sound Intensity:



1st - Microflown Acoustic Camera



2nd - Sound Intensity Mapping of a Speaker


3rd - Low Frequency Mapping of Sound Intensity of Speaker/Subwoofer

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post #1305 of 1408 Old 03-03-2017, 06:00 PM
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@dominguez1 (or anyone else who knows - @carp ?)

How do you feel that nearfield monitors compare to tactile transducers or actuators?

The trouble with nearfield monitors is that I can't figure out how to use thing with reclining chairs.
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post #1306 of 1408 Old 03-03-2017, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
@dominguez1 (or anyone else who knows - @carp ?)

How do you feel that nearfield monitors compare to tactile transducers or actuators?

The trouble with nearfield monitors is that I can't figure out how to use thing with reclining chairs.
I have a post coming to show the differences in Vibsensor, and mentioned something here about my thoughts, but here a short and sweet summary:

Tactile Transducers or actuators can recreate TR, and be very effective at doing so.

Near field subs are also effective at TR, but can be hit or miss depending on sub design, furniture, floor, etc. From what I've seen and measured though, with ample power and extension with an NF sub, you usually can very good TR.

But what I've come to realize from visiting so many HTs in 1 day...near field subs are more about reproducing high levels of Sound Intensity; or the sound energy directly interacting with your body.

Transducers or actuators will never recreate Intensity.

When I was in Carp's room and we were AB'ing with and without Crowsons/NF subs, there was a HUGE difference with the NF's off and Crowson's on, compared to Crowson's off and NF's on.

TR was pretty much identical, but with the NF's off, the Intensity was completely missing. BIG difference.

Keep in mind, this was just with the JW demo...so with other demo's the Crowson TR may be more evident. But when I get around to posting the Vibsensor readings, you'll see that there's really not much of a TR difference compared to just NFs.

BTW, carp's seat was reclining...and when reclined REALLY increased Intensity.
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post #1307 of 1408 Old 03-03-2017, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
I have a post coming to show the differences in Vibsensor, and mentioned something here about my thoughts, but here a short and sweet summary:

Tactile Transducers or actuators can recreate TR, and be very effective at doing so.

Near field subs are also effective at TR, but can be hit or miss depending on sub design, furniture, floor, etc. From what I've seen and measured though, with ample power and extension with an NF sub, you usually can very good TR.

But what I've come to realize from visiting so many HTs in 1 day...near field subs are more about reproducing high levels of Sound Intensity; or the sound energy directly interacting with your body.

Transducers or actuators will never recreate Intensity.

When I was in Carp's room and we were AB'ing with and without Crowsons/NF subs, there was a HUGE difference with the NF's off and Crowson's on, compared to Crowson's off and NF's on.

TR was pretty much identical, but with the NF's off, the Intensity was completely missing. BIG difference.

Keep in mind, this was just with the JW demo...so with other demo's the Crowson TR may be more evident. But when I get around to posting the Vibsensor readings, you'll see that there's really not much of a TR difference compared to just NFs.

BTW, carp's seat was reclining...and when reclined REALLY increased Intensity.
Thanks. I wish I would have tried that when I was there!

What would the ideal nearfield setup be with a recliner?
Just point the driver sideways and make sure it fits below the seat back?
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post #1308 of 1408 Old 03-04-2017, 08:50 AM
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That's the thing about getting old, you begin to think about maintaining function (all aspects ). As I read about these bottom loaded systems I think back to 2009 and building a 2nd row riser for the HT. It was basically an 8'X10' sheet of 1/2" plywood (void free, paint grade) with 2"x12" foundation and one central support joist. Inside of the 2 hollow spaces of this riser were 2 passive Danley TH-SPUDS originally called the Couch Sub. These Tapped Horn subs were the predecessor to the DTS-10 kits and subs that would become very popular around here but unlike the DTS-10 with it's 16" depth, the TH-SPUD was only 11" deep which made it a perfect under riser subwoofer. I also had dual passive 1st Gen Captivators up front.

The issue with the TH-SPUD was that it utilized dual 8" stock drivers. The horn design although potent had an F3 of only 20-22hz but in the audible frequencies, they could really kick some butt. The tactile response when seated on the riser was very nice. Tom Danley called it being in the sound bubble and it was. Only problem was that I preferred sitting in the front row center sweet spot and from there, the TR was like having the back of the HT chair kicked by an obnoxious kid. The bass energy was tactile but also directional which made it seem artificial. I don't know how you guys with subs directly behind the seats deal with this phenomena but my guess is that you are all car audio guys who had bad-ass sub systems in the back of your cars and you became accustomed to this feeling thus normalizing it.

Once I got it in my head that the bass energy was originating disproportionately from behind, I had to get rid of the SPUDS. That said, if they had been under the front row, I might still have them as I did enjoy the TR from that location. The SPUDS (and my front of the room Captivators) were replaced by dual Orbit Shifters up front. Those subs were a game changer and with my 22' X 19' suspended floor HT, the OS's made the entire rooms tactile response over the top. It was a fun ride while it lasted but now, I'm satisfied with only 6 15" drivers across the front or as I'm sure many of you would say ... weak sauce.

Useless ramblings over and I am out ...
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post #1309 of 1408 Old 03-04-2017, 10:08 AM
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I took some measurements of the 212 HT's and the 4722's today:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-spe...l#post51235913
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post #1310 of 1408 Old 03-04-2017, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
That's the thing about getting old, you begin to think about maintaining function (all aspects ). As I read about these bottom loaded systems I think back to 2009 and building a 2nd row riser for the HT. It was basically an 8'X10' sheet of 1/2" plywood (void free, paint grade) with 2"x12" foundation and one central support joist. Inside of the 2 hollow spaces of this riser were 2 passive Danley TH-SPUDS originally called the Couch Sub. These Tapped Horn subs were the predecessor to the DTS-10 kits and subs that would become very popular around here but unlike the DTS-10 with it's 16" depth, the TH-SPUD was only 11" deep which made it a perfect under riser subwoofer. I also had dual passive 1st Gen Captivators up front.

The issue with the TH-SPUD was that it utilized dual 8" stock drivers. The horn design although potent had an F3 of only 20-22hz but in the audible frequencies, they could really kick some butt. The tactile response when seated on the riser was very nice. Tom Danley called it being in the sound bubble and it was. Only problem was that I preferred sitting in the front row center sweet spot and from there, the TR was like having the back of the HT chair kicked by an obnoxious kid. The bass energy was tactile but also directional which made it seem artificial. I don't know how you guys with subs directly behind the seats deal with this phenomena but my guess is that you are all car audio guys who had bad-ass sub systems in the back of your cars and you became accustomed to this feeling thus normalizing it.

Once I got it in my head that the bass energy was originating disproportionately from behind, I had to get rid of the SPUDS. That said, if they had been under the front row, I might still have them as I did enjoy the TR from that location. The SPUDS (and my front of the room Captivators) were replaced by dual Orbit Shifters up front. Those subs were a game changer and with my 22' X 19' suspended floor HT, the OS's made the entire rooms tactile response over the top. It was a fun ride while it lasted but now, I'm satisfied with only 6 15" drivers across the front or as I'm sure many of you would say ... weak sauce.

Useless ramblings over and I am out ...


I did have a decent sub in my car in college and beyond but I never was much for huge car bass, so no that's not me. It's true that if you crank up the nearfield sub that it can be distracting but I have found that if it's 3-6 db's below the level of the other speakers and the up front subs are hot compared to the other speakers that it tricks me and I can't tell that there is a sub behind me.

Also, I don't see it mentioned at all but for me this is very important. I have the near field blended in with the rest of the subs in such a way so that the bass response at ALL the seats is smoother and better, not just the main seat. Even walking around the room during a heavy bass scene - the sound and the feel - is better with the nearfield sub on. The NF sub sits pretty much in the exact center point of the room, so I don't know if that has anything to do with it but it is a significant improvement in the entire room, not just the main seat.

I know what you are saying though, if I cranked it up to above level matched then it's a lot of fun for short term demo's but not for normal movie watching.

It doesn't take massive bass to have a great experience either, last night I introduced my girls to Ferris Bueller's day off. We watched from the back row couch and streaming from netflix the picture looked great - better than I have ever seen the movie by a lot since it's been so long. It made me very happy that I went with such a huge screen, it really makes it a movie theater type of experience.

I forgot how much cussing is in it!! My 5th grader reassured me when I winced a couple of times (while laughing), "it's ok daddy, I hear those words every day at school!" She thought the high school kids reaction to Ben Stein's teaching was absolutely hilarious - I agree.
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post #1311 of 1408 Old 03-04-2017, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
That's the thing about getting old, you begin to think about maintaining function (all aspects ). As I read about these bottom loaded systems I think back to 2009 and building a 2nd row riser for the HT. It was basically an 8'X10' sheet of 1/2" plywood (void free, paint grade) with 2"x12" foundation and one central support joist. Inside of the 2 hollow spaces of this riser were 2 passive Danley TH-SPUDS originally called the Couch Sub. These Tapped Horn subs were the predecessor to the DTS-10 kits and subs that would become very popular around here but unlike the DTS-10 with it's 16" depth, the TH-SPUD was only 11" deep which made it a perfect under riser subwoofer. I also had dual passive 1st Gen Captivators up front.

The issue with the TH-SPUD was that it utilized dual 8" stock drivers. The horn design although potent had an F3 of only 20-22hz but in the audible frequencies, they could really kick some butt. The tactile response when seated on the riser was very nice. Tom Danley called it being in the sound bubble and it was. Only problem was that I preferred sitting in the front row center sweet spot and from there, the TR was like having the back of the HT chair kicked by an obnoxious kid. The bass energy was tactile but also directional which made it seem artificial. I don't know how you guys with subs directly behind the seats deal with this phenomena but my guess is that you are all car audio guys who had bad-ass sub systems in the back of your cars and you became accustomed to this feeling thus normalizing it.

Once I got it in my head that the bass energy was originating disproportionately from behind, I had to get rid of the SPUDS. That said, if they had been under the front row, I might still have them as I did enjoy the TR from that location. The SPUDS (and my front of the room Captivators) were replaced by dual Orbit Shifters up front. Those subs were a game changer and with my 22' X 19' suspended floor HT, the OS's made the entire rooms tactile response over the top. It was a fun ride while it lasted but now, I'm satisfied with only 6 15" drivers across the front or as I'm sure many of you would say ... weak sauce.

Useless ramblings over and I am out ...

I agree with your assessment of the subs directly behind the seats when I first tried this configuration. However, after time-aligning the 6 sub drivers I have in the front of the room with the two sub drivers I have behind my first row of seats, and then adjusting the gain on the rear subs down, my opinion and experiences changed.
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post #1312 of 1408 Old 03-04-2017, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
Thanks. I wish I would have tried that when I was there!

What would the ideal nearfield setup be with a recliner?
Just point the driver sideways and make sure it fits below the seat back?
I would think that carps angled box for his sealed 18" NF would be ideal for reclining.

Mine is not as good as that but here is what I did. These are the 4cuft flat pack from parts express. They measure 23"H x 20"W x 20.75"D. I lay them on there side so that they are 20" tall instead of 23".

Here's a few pics with chairs reclined. The tip of the driver cone is about an inch from the top of the cabinet facing into the back of the chair, so still pretty close to the seat back. I'm able to recline all the way back if want because of the way the chair slides forward a bit as its reclined so it never smashes into the cabinet. Reclined in full, it just barely touches the top of the cab.

I usually have a MBM on top of the sealed 18" behind the MLP in the middle seat of the couch since it doesn't recline. I took it off for this pic so you could see the positioning of the sealed 18's better.

So for the reclining seats, probably not as ideal as carps angled cabinet, but works great! If I end up with actual HT style seats eventually I may try to build 3 angle cabs like his.

A fair amount of recline ....


Full recline ....
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post #1313 of 1408 Old 03-04-2017, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
That's the thing about getting old, you begin to think about maintaining function (all aspects ). As I read about these bottom loaded systems I think back to 2009 and building a 2nd row riser for the HT. It was basically an 8'X10' sheet of 1/2" plywood (void free, paint grade) with 2"x12" foundation and one central support joist. Inside of the 2 hollow spaces of this riser were 2 passive Danley TH-SPUDS originally called the Couch Sub. These Tapped Horn subs were the predecessor to the DTS-10 kits and subs that would become very popular around here but unlike the DTS-10 with it's 16" depth, the TH-SPUD was only 11" deep which made it a perfect under riser subwoofer. I also had dual passive 1st Gen Captivators up front.

The issue with the TH-SPUD was that it utilized dual 8" stock drivers. The horn design although potent had an F3 of only 20-22hz but in the audible frequencies, they could really kick some butt. The tactile response when seated on the riser was very nice. Tom Danley called it being in the sound bubble and it was. Only problem was that I preferred sitting in the front row center sweet spot and from there, the TR was like having the back of the HT chair kicked by an obnoxious kid. The bass energy was tactile but also directional which made it seem artificial. I don't know how you guys with subs directly behind the seats deal with this phenomena but my guess is that you are all car audio guys who had bad-ass sub systems in the back of your cars and you became accustomed to this feeling thus normalizing it.

Once I got it in my head that the bass energy was originating disproportionately from behind, I had to get rid of the SPUDS. That said, if they had been under the front row, I might still have them as I did enjoy the TR from that location. The SPUDS (and my front of the room Captivators) were replaced by dual Orbit Shifters up front. Those subs were a game changer and with my 22' X 19' suspended floor HT, the OS's made the entire rooms tactile response over the top. It was a fun ride while it lasted but now, I'm satisfied with only 6 15" drivers across the front or as I'm sure many of you would say ... weak sauce.

Useless ramblings over and I am out ...
Maybe I'm just used to drivers being so close behind me, but surprisingly I don't really ever feel like there is an obnoxious kid (lol nicely put RMK!) back there kicking the chair making it real distracting. Although I have felt that before though when I used to run a singe cap 2400 or a Rythmik FV15HP when directly behind me if I got to carried away with the gain or didn't move it back a way a little bit further. So this, and maybe the sealed are a little smoother than ported when the drivers are this close behind you.

I think now with 3 sealed spread out behind me a little instead of just one directly behind me, its a little better dispersed and also each sub has to be turned down a little to be at the same SPL since there 3 (basically co-located but only one directly behind me, even though the others are still pretty close).

As some of the other NF er's where saying, I too feel having the FF subs contribute also helps reduce some of the obnoxious effect that a NF firing into your back can have.
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post #1314 of 1408 Old 03-04-2017, 12:45 PM
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Just found a picture of carp's sub:


Somehow I didn't notice this during the crawl.
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post #1315 of 1408 Old 03-08-2017, 08:38 AM
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So during the crawl Brandon @beastaudio was wearing a T-shirt and I just flipped out over it. So I get a package in the mail yesterday and low and behold........

He literally sent me the shirt off his back!!



So here are a few pictures of the jedimaster doing a few of his favorite things in his new favorite communications related T-shirt!

Listening to the JTR 4000 ULF with the gain knob cranked!



Crushing his enemies underfoot in Star Wars Battlefront!



Thanks a million beast! This was an awesome surprise! I am going to wear it to crossfit (jedi training) today and you better believe I will "reach out and crush someone"!!!!!
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post #1316 of 1408 Old 03-08-2017, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post
So during the crawl Brandon @beastaudio was wearing a T-shirt and I just flipped out over it. So I get a package in the mail yesterday and low and behold........

He literally sent me the shirt off his back!!

Thanks a million beast! This was an awesome surprise! I am going to wear it to crossfit (jedi training) today and you better believe I will "reach out and crush someone"!!!!!
Just to clarify too, that day was the only day it had been worn as I had just gotten it in the mail the day or two before. Don't worry though, we are twins as I ordered another one as soon as I saw it come up again

Enjoy Bro, you were way too amped for that shirt for me NOT to send it your way. Good luck crushing

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post #1317 of 1408 Old 03-08-2017, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post
So during the crawl Brandon @beastaudio was wearing a T-shirt and I just flipped out over it. So I get a package in the mail yesterday and low and behold........

He literally sent me the shirt off his back!!



So here are a few pictures of the jedimaster doing a few of his favorite things in his new favorite communications related T-shirt!

Listening to the JTR 4000 ULF with the gain knob cranked!



Crushing his enemies underfoot in Star Wars Battlefront!



Thanks a million beast! This was an awesome surprise! I am going to wear it to crossfit (jedi training) today and you better believe I will "reach out and crush someone"!!!!!
My son would love that shirt. I remember him wearing it. Also my son gets mad when I cal it an @[email protected] instead of a AT-AT.

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post #1318 of 1408 Old 03-08-2017, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
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This weekend, I'm going to call out those of you who attended, but haven't made time to post up your thoughts.


You have been warned.











----------------


Also,
Any of you guys heading up to Apoxna this year in Chicago Il?


JTR Speakers has a big footprint there this year and will be demoing 7 JTR 215 RT speakers in a home theater setup in the LaSalle C Ballroom.
JTR will also be doing the audio for the Blues Concert on Saturday night using JTR Noesis 3TX and the new Captivator 212 Pro subwoofers.


Single day pass is $25. A few of us KC guys are considering flying in, or carpooling up to partake. Single day direct flights in and out on Saturday aren't terribly pricey. (about $200 from KC)
http://www.axpona.com/register.asp
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post #1319 of 1408 Old 03-08-2017, 04:55 PM
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Call me out if you like, but I'm still trying to put some "less then silly grin" perspective on how awesome that weekend was.
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post #1320 of 1408 Old 03-08-2017, 06:22 PM
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You can call me out too...but the crawl lit a fire under my ass to get working on my build.

I have gotten 90% of the framing done (all of the theater). So I have a valid excuse.

I did have a blast though and truly appreciate all of the hospitality of the hosts.

Can't wait to have you guys up again to break in the new theater when it is ready.

I keep confusing my intentions with my abilities.
The Blank Slate Cinema/MacGillvray Pub Build Thread
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