February 2017 - Kansas City Home Theater Crawl - Page 45 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1321 of 1408 Old 03-09-2017, 06:56 AM
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You guys never told me Zach Galifianakis was going to be there ...



Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post
So during the crawl Brandon @beastaudio was wearing a T-shirt and I just flipped out over it. So I get a package in the mail yesterday and low and behold........

He literally sent me the shirt off his back!!



So here are a few pictures of the jedimaster doing a few of his favorite things in his new favorite communications related T-shirt!

Listening to the JTR 4000 ULF with the gain knob cranked!



Crushing his enemies underfoot in Star Wars Battlefront!



Thanks a million beast! This was an awesome surprise! I am going to wear it to crossfit (jedi training) today and you better believe I will "reach out and crush someone"!!!!!

Anxiety is contagious, please keep yours to yourself.
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post #1322 of 1408 Old 03-09-2017, 09:20 AM
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Didn't even recognize Grant when I first saw him. But he is super adorable with that thing.

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post #1323 of 1408 Old 03-09-2017, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
You guys never told me Zach Galifianakis was going to be there ...
''I have never been much of a groomer. I take baths a lot, but I don't wear deodorant. I don't have to. I have a miraculous body scent. I've had women smell me and say that should be bottled. I would advise guys to lay off the Drakkar, because the cavemen weren't wearing it. They might have been putting mint leaves on their balls, but [your scent] is grown naturally. I have really good dating advice.''
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post #1324 of 1408 Old 03-09-2017, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Didn't even recognize Grant when I first saw him. But he is super adorable with that thing.

I actually have to clip off a substantial amount on a weekly basis just to be able to eat soup!

You have no idea how many free haircuts I have been offered by military types who can't let a single hair touch their ears!
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post #1325 of 1408 Old 03-09-2017, 08:10 PM
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4000 ULF fun impressions.

I am lucky enough to have the JTR 4000 ULF that Jeff left in KC for awhile in my HT. I did not want to move the dual Orbit Shifters that are behind my screen wall so I set it down in front of the screen. This makes the distance from the port to the MLP around 5.5 feet. Not a near field sub but it is closer than I am used to.

The sub on the right is my OS LFU. The two OS LF's are behind the screen. The 4000 ULF is to the left. And the Cap 2400's are not in the room at the moment.


carp has already done measurements so I will just let you know what I thought and make you wish you had one!

Just a public service announcement here. Please do not underestimate the weight of this enclosure. Use a dolly. I brought a friend to carps house and without a dolly we really had our work cut out for us. My friend and I used a dolly to get it down my stairs and it was a piece of cake. But, I just want to say that if you do not use a dolly then the guy at the bottom who is backing down the stairs could easily be killed if it gets away from you!

I had a lot of compliments and complaints at the recent KC crawl about my sub levels. I was one of the very few who ran the subs flat. It seemed everyone was divided. They either raved that I had a well balanced system with tight bass or they said "hey how about we give the gain knob a few cranks??" Well rest assured bass heads I did not run the bass flat for the following impressions.

Nice and cozy with the 4000 ULF.


Since I am just looking to have a little fun here I decided to experiment with the gain knob a little bit. I had a few guys over just after getting the sub and I only ran it a few db hot since my kids were in bed. I still think stitch1 (Tim) got plenty of bass since he was in the seat that sits right next to the 4000 ULF. The next day I got the go ahead to open her up and see what she could do.

I ran the Reelwood demo disc mostly. There are many worthy scenes so I did the Terminator Genysis (golden gate bridge), San Andreas (roof rescue), BvS (trailer) etc.

Things got interesting when the bus flipped!


Started at 8 db hot and it was pretty intense. The bus flip really did a number on the whole room. Another 4 db and things started to shake that did not shake previously. Then I kind of lost count of how hot the bass was and just let her rip. The intensity was striking. The whole room "pressurized" with ease at even the slightest things like pistol shots in the golden gate scene. I never let it get quite to the "clearly nuts" levels that Jeff had at carps when flower pots were dancing on tables on the main floor above the basement.

This skyscraper crashing down is a good rattle test!


I did most of the demos at minus 8 db. The sound quality is exactly what I would expect from a JTR subwoofer. It stayed very tight and never got muddy no matter how hard it was pushed. At some point I am sure distortion would occur but I surely would never ever get there with my ear drums intact. It was not stressed in any audible way.

The BvS trailer has this really out of control bass at the end and my wife said the entire house was shaking. She was on the second floor and the kids were wondering if daddy was ok.



I am hoping to have a little more fun with it before it moves on here very soon.
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post #1326 of 1408 Old 03-10-2017, 07:06 AM
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I just kind of want to be it's forever home... Glad you found the gain knob on that sucker Grant
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post #1327 of 1408 Old 03-11-2017, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Jon, you have a lot more space to pressurize down in your HT which is what I think plays a much larger part than the 1/3 placement of your subs, at least for the front 5. There is enough of a wall there that IMO the subs should still present enough of a 2pi space reaction than your thinking of them actually being 1/3 room away from a "Real" sonic barrier.
So by the measurements -

From the back of my rear bank of subs (behind my chairs) to the back concrete wall (back of the house) there is a bit over 10' (closer to 11' before you get to the actual concrete)

From the back of my front bank of subs to the false/baffle wall there is about 4" -15" (since they are arranged in a semi circle), and then there is about 10' behind that to the concrete wall that is the front of the house.

From the back of my front subs to the back of my rear subs is about 14'.

So generally my room (not counting the false wall is about) 34' deep. The subs are placed at about 10' and 10' from the concrete reinforcement walls. I'm not so sure the baffle/false wall is really going to be adding much bass reinforcement/boundary gain. It's really just drywall, and a very very thin sheet of wainscot. Looking at the pics you think I'm getting boundary gain off that false wall?


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post #1328 of 1408 Old 03-11-2017, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
Crowsons and other transducers can create TR...but will never create PR. I'm convinced PR is really the true benefit of a nearfield sub...TR just happens to come with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
How about nearbyfield?

At one time I had one FV right behind me...and it was VISCERAL like Carps. I had a similar "wincing" experience on certain demo clips...it was awesome.

But the other seats were so far off from a TR standpoint compared to the MLP. So I bought another FV and placed them behind the non-lp seats. It was a good comprise, as now all the positions have very good TR and are more even seat to seat.

The other thing that hasn't been discussed yet that bothered me when the FV was directly behind me...I hated getting "slammed" on things that have no business having that effect; things like doors shutting, guitar picks, etc. It was absolutely incredible for those bass demo scenes, but some other films, the Intensity was out of place and sometimes affected the overall experience and perceived sound quality.

@carp or @Archaea , do you run into this problem at all?
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
I don't really notice a slam by things that shouldn't, but the level that the near sub was on for the JW demo is higher than I normally run it. For JW the nearfield sub was 4 db's hot compared to the subs. For most tv and movies I have it set at 3 db's less than the speakers. I watched Hacksaw Ridge with the near sub 3 db's below the other speakers and the bass was insane so I can't imagine how powerful the bass would be if I bumped it up a few db's. It's the most impressive scene I've seen in my room.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominguez1 View Post
Archaea, are you able to recline your seat like carp so that you get even more nearfield? Can you describe in more detail on what you feel was missing [as compared to carps setup]? Shaking? Pummeling effect? Loudness? Dynamics?
For example in my current setup, I'm lacking that "pummeling" effect that he had...to me that's what stood out the most, not so much as the couch shaking.
I'm missing that pressure feeling (PV or sound intensity) as it relates to what carp's room can do. I have some, but not to the degree he does. The pant leg flapping feeling isn't as strong throughout my room on the John Wick club scene as it is in carp's room. As beast mentioned earlier - my room is quite a bit larger than carps when you take into account the size of the actual basement, and the break of rooms to the side. Carp has that laundry room area to the side, and a bathroom to the back, but other than that - that's the whole size of his basement(split level home). My theater room is less than 1/2 of my overall basement (traditional home), and the rest of the space is not at all sealed off from my listening position. It's gotta be the same sort of reasoning that allows chirpies place to be pretty adequately pressurized by a single 12" driver. I think that basement theater room is fairly small in his place (like carp's a split level home). I mean you can see in this video that we had my eight 18" drivers really pumping during the tactile test at -5dB. I have double the amplifier power on my eight 18"s to that carp is using, yet carps registers objectively and subjectively more tactile feel and pressure, a good portion of that has to be boundary gain, and room size (total air space) delta.

timestamp 1:06


Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
What really tops it off was Doug's design of my nearfield sub enclosure. It angles up so that when you recline it's even closer to your back and head. I don't think it's good for your hearing though, last fall after cranking Need for Speed and Terminator Genisys back to back my hearing was muffled for a few days. In Terminator there were scenes in TG that had bass that I've never experienced and the only way to re-create it was to be reclined with the near field right there. It feel silly describing it... it made my whole body tingle and gave me a sense of euphoria. Like anything else though, too much of a good thing is not so good for us and my ears paid for it. I have made sure to turn down the nearfield when reclining ever since. The difference between reclining and not reclining is a big one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
IMO --- nearfield sealed subs need to be immediately next to the seats --- firing into the bottom, back, etc. Probably ideally within the proximity of the driver's diameter.
IE --- if an 18" sub - the cone should be within 18" of your back. Luke Kamp said something to me like that one time, and I generally agree with his preference. I started nearfield with three 10" Infinity drivers in sealed boxes, and while it was fantastic if they were immediately next to the back of the chair, I got basically nothing by the time I put them on the floor. HUGE tactile feedback as compared to nothing. As carp mentioned earlier - when he leans back over his angled driver as his chair reclines - it produces much more feel. Same here, though my boxes aren't angled. Just reclining the chair back is a BIG difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
I don't know how you guys with subs directly behind the seats deal with this phenomena but my guess is that you are all car audio guys who had bad-ass sub systems in the back of your cars and you became accustomed to this feeling thus normalizing it.
I was a car audio guy yes, but you'll notice is some of this conversation that my preference is clearly sealed for nearfield --- it certaintly doesn't feel like someone kicking the back of my chair - which i also dislike. The sealed nearfield is 'smoother' than the horn or ported nearfield experience - IMO. Doug had a pair of othorns directly behind the couch once, and ghorn to the side of the couch another time. Both times was a blast (OUT OF CONTROL TACTILE) - but it's a MUCH more aggressive feel than a sealed sub behind your seat and I don't need, nor want that for everyday use. Similar to ported. I'll stick with sealed nearfield, thank you kindly. I also really love the effect of the actual acoustic energy feel when the cone really gets moving on the deepest notes. Say 20hz and below. As dominguez1 expressed earlier at the close proximity to the driver cone their is an element of fluid dynamics that may relate closer to the feel. The wobble tactile feel effect of the cone is really my favorite part of the sealed nearfield and on a ported subwoofer that driver cone isn't moving as much on the lowest stuff, (as the port tune on the box is limiting excursion) and so it's missing the effect I love the most. That effect being a drunken wobble pulsing on your back. It's a lot of fun. I don't enjoy so much the kick drum or higher 'teeth buzzing' tactile feel nearly as much as the drunken wobble feel. Personal, subjective preference and all that.

Also --- I run my sealed nearfield about 1dB less than the front sub bank. That keeps the sound balanced in the room to my senses and doesn't allow the sound (nor feel) to originate from behind me. I also thinking having the driver exactly centered behind my chair allows for it not to feel like it's originating behind me. I don't think I can tell there is a sub behind me at all, except just WAY more feel than the front bank of subs when the sealed sub is directly behind me and 1dB less than the front bank.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SBuger View Post
Maybe I'm just used to drivers being so close behind me, but surprisingly I don't really ever feel like there is an obnoxious kid (lol nicely put RMK!) back there kicking the chair making it real distracting. Although I have felt that before though when I used to run a singe cap 2400 or a Rythmik FV15HP when directly behind me if I got to carried away with the gain or didn't move it back a way a little bit further. So this, and maybe the sealed are a little smoother than ported when the drivers are this close behind you.

I think now with 3 sealed spread out behind me a little instead of just one directly behind me, its a little better dispersed and also each sub has to be turned down a little to be at the same SPL since there 3 (basically co-located but only one directly behind me, even though the others are still pretty close).

As some of the other NF er's where saying, I too feel having the FF subs contribute also helps reduce some of the obnoxious effect that a NF firing into your back can have.
I agree with this. I tried my captivators behind my seat nearfield at the old house and it was too much for me. too intense. Similar to what sbuger and dominguez1 both said their experience with ported nearfield was. I didn't think it sounded as clean either - being that the port itself sometimes contributes some sound that I didn't want coming from behind me. (wind noise, whatever). The sealed nearfield worked much better for me than the ported nearfield. I can lay my seat back and while not as ideal as carps angled driver, the box driver -- like sbuger really does give me as much as I need. If the chair happens to touch the box, like sbuger's picture shows - it's almost over the top with the sealed setup too. I personally don't typically allow my chair to touch the sub box itself, but I want that driver cone just as close as I can have it to my back when sitting down.
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post #1329 of 1408 Old 03-11-2017, 02:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
All of you KC HT hosts (+dlbeck) deserve a huge thank you from those able to attend and those just watching from home. Obviously a lot of effort went into this and some traveled very long distances to attend making this a notable event in the history of AVS HT Meets/GTG's. Again, well done to you all and looking forward to your casual and more detailed comments. Very

Will all of those be posted here, or will there be another thread be created for comments, measurements etc?
This is the single thread for everything related to this crawl - and as mentioned earlier this week - it's come time to call out individuals who attended but haven't made the time to provide some feedback. It's been three weeks. No more excuses.

Let's hear what you liked, what you didn't (opportunities to improve?), what was memorable! Post some pictures and video!

I've gone back through the posts since the meet and organized the crawl attendees into four groups. I'd sure be nice to see all 50 attendees fall into one of the first two categories.




MVP Reviews (Crème de la crème)
@beastaudio MVP Contendor - Strong - Post 1180 - https://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-are...l#post51027545

@dominguez1 MVP contendor - Strong - Post 1113 - https://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-are...l#post50936249

@jeahrens MVP contendor - Strong - Post 1115 - https://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-are...l#post50937153

@Luke Kamp MVP contendor - Strong - Post 1065 - https://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-are...l#post50910977

@Scott Simonian MVP contendor - Strong - Post 1184 - https://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-are...l#post51042537


Reviews (Thanks for taking the time to write up your thoughts)
@ahmedreda Post 1116 - https://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-are...l#post50938129

@BRAD S Post 1152 - https://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-are...l#post50961225

@femi Post 1151 - https://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-are...l#post50957753

@Gorilla83 Post 1107 - https://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-are...l#post50933985

@HuskerOmaha Post 1103 - https://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-are...l#post50928753

@Mike Garrett Post 1109 - https://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-are...l#post50934689


Minimalist Reviews (Deep down inside you know your review was too short)
@dlbeck weak, post 1021

@ZLTFUL weak, post 1038

@dsl1 weak, post 1043

@Rowan611 weak, post 1050

@Ladeback weak, Post 1051

@smoovranger weak, post 1052

@stitch1 weak, post 1063

@rcohen weak, post 1105, and 1106

@lilmike weak, post 1118

@Ricci weak, post 1127

@Tedd weak, post 1168

@popalock weak, post 1174



No reviews (Wat? you better have been in a coma or something!)
@andersa

@baniels

@desertdome

@dk-customs

@gsmotherman

@hellerbrewing

@ishmaela

@Jeff Permanian

@jreb14

@Mark Seaton

@Randy Bessinger

@sassuki

@sigma722

@slarity

@turls






Obviously there were quite a few friends and such too that don't have handles so I can't call them out.

Let's see more reviews posted up.



I didn't include the 9 hosts above, as we didn't have the opportunity in most cases to participate in each of the rooms. But a few of the crawl hosts did post little reviews - here they are, as well, for reference:

@Archaea Post - 1142 https://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-are...l#post50948585

@chirpie Post 1153 - https://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-are...l#post50965289

@d_c Post 1058 - https://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-are...l#post50909121

@JDontee Post 1144 - https://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-are...l#post50949441

@jedimastergrant Post 1191 - https://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-are...l#post51059897
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post #1330 of 1408 Old 03-11-2017, 04:28 PM
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Can I please be upgraded to Minimalist Reviews?

Archaea -
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chirpie -
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post #1331 of 1408 Old 03-11-2017, 05:05 PM
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post #1332 of 1408 Old 03-11-2017, 05:43 PM
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Nice Brad! No, that won't do. And then!
I think we need to stop with the "Dude, Where's My Car?" references before the thread devolves into a debate over whether or not barns have to be red...
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post #1333 of 1408 Old 03-11-2017, 09:11 PM
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Fine Jonathan...ya danged review whore you!

I will leave out my opinions of the Alamo and John Wick Chapter 2 (both were enjoyable but I like our Flix Brewhouse up here better so I am biased).

@cvinfig

Obviously, everyone's first stop for the weekend.
First, let's get it out of the way...you and your wife were amazing hosts. You let this entire group of miscreants into your home AFTER they had been drinking and carrying on at the movie beforehand. You were both gracious and your home is absolutely amazing. Even if your cat never came to visit me, the crazy cat guy...tell your wife I apologize for forcing her to sit through countless cat videos and pictures.
Your home is a great space and your personalities truly show in it. It is fun, inviting, welcoming and cool as the butt of a polar bear sitting on an iceberg!
The theater space is a tremendous use of available space without detracting from the loft feel of the entire condo. I didn't spend a whole lot of time checking out demos but what I did see and hear was top notch. Being a big fan of the Dynaudio, it was refreshing to see them being used in a theater space. A lot of people shy away from using "audiophile" speakers in a theater but I don't understand why. What you give up in *some* dynamics, is more than made up for in a flat out buttery smooth delivery.
And those Rythmik subs were integrated nicely and simply disappeared into the ambiance of the room.
Again, thank you both for allowing us to share your space.

@ChldsPlay

Our first stop for Group C on Saturday morning...and we were WAY late getting there. Fortunately, it worked in our favor as he planned on 2 demos.
Sitting upstairs, I kept thinking that your wife must be a saint of a woman because frankly, my wife would kick me and the theater out of the house if our sofa was dancing like yours was.
Once in the theater, it is very evident that the space is well thought out. The color scheme is colorful and engaging without being overbearing and it also simply disappears once the lights go down. Aside from the blue, the color scheme and the columns/fabric panels are similar to my design so it was nice to see my design ideas in practice...or a close representation of the same.
The JTR 228HTs reinforced my own decision to go with JTRs for my front stage. They were incredibly dynamic without being overbearing and they played really well with the Klipsch surrounds. And the passive Captivators showed that without a doubt, you don't *NEED* a 4000ULF to make friends and influence people. Hehe. I kept swearing that there were transducers or a rear sub in the space. Just outstanding.
The Atmos application in this theater is most like what I will be doing myself but I was too busy being distracted by demo material to really pay that much attention.
This theater reinforced my own belief that the Panasonic punches well above its price point.

@Stoked21

The multi-use space with the bar, theater and table gaming area felt a lot like the space my wife and I had originally thought about doing in our new house. The entertaining potential of this space is through the roof and made for a nice chance to either immerse yourself in a demo or sit back and people watch others as they experienced this great theater.
This space had one of the best all around sound "envelopes" I heard all day. The last scene from Gravity where the capsule is bobbing above and below the surface of the water actually sounded like you were being dunked below the surface and then being pulled back above.
The full JTR speakers made for a great blend from mains to surrounds to Atmos and all around.
Another great feature of this theater is how one seat didn't really outshine the others. The sound was great throughout.
While not my tastes personally, I really did dig the old school theater style of the ropes and drapery. It made the space feel like the classic theater space.
The JVC in this theater was fantastic. It reinforced my own plans to go with a JVC RS and a Seymour screen. I believe it was Lndon who said that it was like the JVC actually projects blacks.

@JDontee

First and foremost, that rear projection setup...amazing. The idea that you can project a screen that size without having it wash out with the lights on had me trying to figure out how to redo my own space to do the same. It was that good.
I have to admit that I was very pleasantly surprised by the sound in your theater. I sort of went into it with a bit of a bias thinking that the BIC surrounds would be underwhelming... I knew what to expect from the DIYSG mains and the HT18 subs but my previous experiences with BIC speakers has been...well...not great. I will happily concede that they completely annihilated my previous expectations of BICs.
One thing I really liked about this space is how relaxed it felt. It was more like a over-built living room space in that it just felt more comfortable and less purpose built.
The channel mapping/center channel equalization was in and of itself, quite a solid feat. It definitely made the front sound stage that much better.

@d_c

Seriously dude? I mean seriously? You don't compete regularly? The 'que was fantastic. Considering I am a bit of a pitmaster myself, I have to say that ranked in my top 10 easily. And that cheesy corn...sweet jeebus.

Speaking of sweet jeebus, what have you drugged your wife with? Because I don't know a woman on this planet that would let any one of us get away with shoving 2 g-horns into the attic.
And then there was the 4000ULF. I am surprised that the fish in your reef tank upstairs weren't instantly liquefied!

So I have to ask...do you bribe your neighbors on weekends like that? Because I know my retiree neighbors would have the entire law enforcement staff on duty kicking my door down. We heard the bass from half way down the block!
Did I mention the bass?
I mean I consider myself a bit of a basshead but damn dude...
(Side note, you were right...I am slipping down the rabbit hole like you suggested in the Central Iowa theater crawl thread...but I *only* am going with 6 sealed HT18s.

Looks like I will have to up my smoker game when you guys head up this way next...but I have a secret weapon in my arsenal...can you say "pork belly burnt ends"?

@Archaea

Probably the theater I was looking forward to the most. Outside of @dlbeck this was the first build thread I read from start to finish.
I was also looking forward to hearing the Mackies live up to the hype.
And the subwoofers were the closest to what I was planning in my own build.

The space reminded me of my grandparent's basement growing up. Don't take that the wrong way, it is a great compliment as mt grandparent's had an awesome basement that EVERYONE wanted to hang out in.
Your basement has that same feel.
The demo was skewed because...well...let's face it...that RS600 was insane! Far and away the best picture IMHO of the weekend.
And a solid choice on your demo material. The Star Spangled Banner is now part of my own demo playlist.
Those Mackies do live up to your hype. Hard to believe the price point on them for as good as they sounded. And they blended nicely with the subs.

I particularly enjoyed the hearing test. Especially the group trying to differentiate between tactile sensation and actual hearing.

On a side note, thank you very much for spearheading this and organizing everything. I know that it makes for a chaotic weekend and you really stepped up to the plate.

@carp

Out of all of the spaces, this is the one I can see myself passing out on the couch while watching football on a Saturday afternoon.
That old school (old is relative hehe) Pioneer does an awful darn good job for its stone-agedness.
And your MLP is arguably the best of the weekend. It may be the nearfield sub...it may be the Crowson...heck...you may be pumping amazing opiates in the air above that seat...whatever it is, I liked it...I liked it a lot.

Another reassurance of my choice to go with JTRs. The overall sound was great here. And I loved (LOLed) the curve names.

@jedimastergrant

When we first got to your place, I swore you were my buddy Dan. You are his (or he is yours) doppelganger. You guys could easily pass as twins.
But I digress.
Your space was my favorite of the weekend. The overall design, the sound, the demo material. The whole experience is what I am aiming for with my build.
You also made everyone feel welcome and included when you had us playing musical chairs. It worked great to get everyone a chance to experience that whole theater space.
Your Atmos application was also my favorite in the MLP. And while it didn't give the whole theater experience that Derek (Derrick? Sorry...) had in his space, it was, again, what I am aiming for with my space (considering my wife and I will be the only ones in the space 90% of the time).
Visually and acoustically, your space hit all the high marks for me.
I also enjoyed your choice of memorabilia and reading material. Matches a lot of my same tastes.

@chirpie

If I didn't own 3 SVS PC12NSDs and know myself what they were capable of, I would swear you were sandbagging. That little woofer that could is actually quite capable and leaves you wanting nothing.
I was also happy to see someone else with a love for Anime and Kung-Fu/Martial arts cinema.
Your demo was great and I love that you automated it to allow for you to chat while the demo ran for the group in the theater.
I am truly looking forward to what your next space has in store when you get to not compromise (not that yours was a compromise in any way but creating a space in an existing home requires some compromise).
I must admit, your mother in law is a pretty solid baker. And this is coming from someone who's wife is an amazing baker herself. Hehe.


After chirpie's we decided to call it a night. I was burnt out and wanted to get at least some rest before heading back to DSM on Sunday.


@Scrappydue

On Sunday, as we headed out of town, @slarity wanted to swing by @Scrappydue 's place and check out his theater as well as his 893s.
This dude can build some speakers. As a woodworker myself, I was very impressed by the 893s he built.
His theater space is also nothing short of fantastic. I fully expected 8 HT18s to bombard us some more like the previous theaters had (not a negative by any means but after a day of 18s and 4000ULFs and Orbit Shifters and Captivators...oh my...I was ready for a bit of a break. This theater didn't fail to deliver in any way but it did so in a manner that didn't leave you feeling used and abused.
Props to yet another wife who indulges this insane hobby. Hehe.


Overall, it was a tremendous weekend. It also lit a fire under my butt to get back to work on my own space.

A couple of things that stood out overall,
I am glad I don't use JRiver. Seems like everyone down there who was had a crash at some point. I know how powerful it is but I am also a turn it on and it works kind of guy. I get to tinker with technology all day, every day at work so I think I will stick with Plex for now.

You people are bass fanatics. I thought I liked my bass but y'all are insane! In a good way though. I approve.

Well, now that I have cramps in my fingers from typing, Jonathan will deem me worthy to at least get out of the poor showing part of the class.

I wish I could remember more but the most important thing that this weekend brought me was a desire to get my own space done so I can host y'all up here.

Ryan
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The Blank Slate Cinema/MacGillvray Pub Build Thread
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post #1334 of 1408 Old 03-12-2017, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by ZLTFUL View Post

Obviously, everyone's first stop for the weekend.
First, let's get it out of the way...you and your wife were amazing hosts. You let this entire group of miscreants into your home AFTER they had been drinking and carrying on at the movie beforehand. You were both gracious and your home is absolutely amazing. Even if your cat never came to visit me, the crazy cat guy...tell your wife I apologize for forcing her to sit through countless cat videos and pictures.
Excellent write-up!

I pulled out the part about our cat because I don't think I've told anyone her story for the crawl. Her name is Dre and she is VERY skittish, rarely showing herself when we have guests. Our plan was to lock her in our master bedroom and we moved her food/water in there. The afternoon of the crawl, we had a cleaning service come through and the wife and I hung out in the HT while they did their thing. Dre was with us spending most of her time hiding behind an amp in the front of the room. After the cleaners left, we started to watch a movie (John Wick) but didn't get too far before we had some early arrivals. At some point I realized I hadn't seen Dre in awhile but assumed she had found a hiding spot. I left the door to the bedroom cracked open in case she needed to dart in there. The party was a blast and after a little clean-up we went to bed around 2:00 - 2:30. At 3:00, I was really getting nervous as Dre still hadn't come out from hiding to jump up on our bed. I got up and walked down the hall calling for her and listening for any meows. Nothing so I laid back down. About 15 minutes later it hit me. The last time I had seen her was in the HT about 12 hours before. I jump out of bed, went to the HT, and reclined the first chair. Out ran a very scared kitty. She must've got trapped in there when the cleaners left because we sat in different seats for the movie. And after that, if that seat ever did get reclined there were too many people in the room for her to venture out.

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Our Diamond is that exact same way. When people come over she disappears like a little white ninja. Same hiding spot too...under the reclining ends of the sofa. Took us weeks to figure out where she would disappear to.

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The Blank Slate Cinema/MacGillvray Pub Build Thread
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post #1336 of 1408 Old 03-12-2017, 11:31 AM
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So by the measurements -

From the back of my rear bank of subs (behind my chairs) to the back concrete wall (back of the house) there is a bit over 10' (closer to 11' before you get to the actual concrete)

From the back of my front bank of subs to the false/baffle wall there is about 4" -15" (since they are arranged in a semi circle), and then there is about 10' behind that to the concrete wall that is the front of the house.

From the back of my front subs to the back of my rear subs is about 14'.

So generally my room (not counting the false wall is about) 34' deep. The subs are placed at about 10' and 10' from the concrete reinforcement walls. I'm not so sure the baffle/false wall is really going to be adding much bass reinforcement/boundary gain. It's really just drywall, and a very very thin sheet of wainscot. Looking at the pics you think I'm getting boundary gain off that false wall?


Pics:
Ok, to bank on this post, and the following where the additional conversation took place, I can only take what I got from your room, Carp's room, and in effect, what I experience in my own personal room with a similar sealed setup, that is effectively a dead middle difference between yours and carp's.

To start with my own well-known experience of my own spot, which is located in a "Traditional home" basement, that is split 12x29x8 for the HT, with a small full bath 6x8x8, a hallway to the outdoor access 6x13x8, a small under-stair storage room and a larger storage room about 8x29x8 which is the largest other part of the basement. Each of these room is insulated and doored off, with sealing I put around the jambs to help with rattling and air movement, as none of the unfinished areas are conditioned. Air gaps on the bottoms of the doors still need to be addressed, but that will come after some nicer flooring goes in there at some point, along with some nicer doors.

SO, where does this all go... as we all have extremely potent systems that we could perhaps dial in to compensate and match each other's type of "TR", we each have our systems already dialed in as we see fit. Carp's room had the pressure and power from the front 8 that I am used to in my own space, but the NF totally kicked butt compared to mine, where I follow a much more similar "Feel" to how your room does Jon. This is perhaps partly because I run the front bank of subs about 8dB hot, while the NF setup is basically level matched with the rest of the satellites, therefore 8dB lower than the front 8 subs.

I also took the time to EQ both setups, front and NF to nearly the same FR. I know this is blasphemy in many people's opinions, but I could never get them to sound right doing global EQ on the entire system at one time. After matching both up and looking at the gain adding and subtracting the NF, it looked better than any other method I had tried, and was a universal gain as I brought the level in on the NF subs. This required some serious work taming down some peaks around 40-60hz on the NF with substantially more LT on the bottom end than what I normally run on the main 8 subs, but I digress.

As far as room layout goes, I think Jon that your baffle wall will at least help a little with reinforcement, although how much I can't really say. The funny part about all of this is I feel like Austin's space in his old HT had some seriously intense pressure, more than I have felt elsewhere, but it was basically wide open to the rest of his basement that was equal to if not larger than either of our spaces. It was the most intense TR I have ever felt outside of standing next to that damn cap4000, or shoving my head a foot into my old f-20's.


The Concept of uninsulated walls that are not as rigid as say a concrete foundation type wall kind of baffles me (No pun intended). They do reinforce for the simple fact that the air displaced by the sub system is not passing through these walls, so they should help there, but for an actual sound wave absorption, they are not going to react the same as your foundation walls of course. The simple fact that the air displacement of the system can be somewhat contained by these sheetrock walls HAS to play a decent part in the whole TR/PR concept. Think of sticking a sheet of thick paper down into a bin of water and then creating waves on one side of it, it still stops the water from propagating waves on the other side of the sheet, even though it is only a millimeter thin. This obviously doesn't translate completely to sound waves, but enough of the scientific concept would have to match to a certain degree.

So what I am basically saying is, It's weird man. Rooms are weird, systems are weird, we are weird for even caring this much.
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Belly of the Beast: Bass Bunker Theater
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post #1337 of 1408 Old 03-12-2017, 11:37 AM
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Man, where to begin? I get it, I know I should try to get a few thoughts posted, but let's be honest. Like a bunch of words from me in a post are going to do this effort justice?

I've been thinking about how I could put my thoughts into words since I got back. Epic blur of a weekend was epic. Thoroughly enjoyed my trip and really liked being able to see all of the different theater setups. Meeting all of you was fantastic. Collectively, you’ve raised the bar significantly for me, I have a lot of work in front of me to even get a result that is remotely close to what I experienced.

Travel? Pretty uneventful, all things considered. Once @Scott Simonian and I realized we were in separate terminals at KCI, we tagged up, managed to get to the car rental counter, then I snagged a Charger R/T for the weekend, for the same rental rate as what I’d “reserved”. Not quite sure how that happened, but I just signed, smiled and nodded, might be one of the few benefits of being a grownup...

Meeting up for John Wick 2 was good fun. Glad I had some time to have a beer and chat with @popalock , @beastaudio , @Ricci , @dominguez1 , and @HuskerOmaha (among others) before the film. Finally putting faces to names and meeting everyone was great. John Wick 2? More like John Wick^2. Good fun. Movies with food and beer? Not bad at all.

@cvinfig : I gotta say, it was pretty bold of you to just open the door to a bunch of random folks from the Internet. That said, thanks much for doing so. Your home is amazing. Really enjoyed the theater experience, and love the way that you put the room together. Fantastic picture, excellent sound, and super nice seating. Huge thanks to you and your wife for the hospitality.

@Archaea : Well, we showed up late and missed a significant portion of the demo (this will be a recurring theme)… I'll blame the navigator. Still, WOW. That picture was incredible. The sound was extremely well balanced, very nice implementation. Can't thank you enough for the efforts in organizing this and the hospitality you offered.

@JDontee : Again, we rolled in a bit late. I suppose I could blame my navigator. Turns out we keyed in the address wrong, we were standing outside someone else's place a block away and the neighbors were all giving us some weird looks... We managed to get there eventually... Very nice looking theater. Why, oh why did I have to see that RP setup? It was fantastic. The brightness was amazing, even with lights on. Very impressive. Just sad that there is no way I can integrate something similar in my room.

@d_c : As I recall, we got here about when we were supposed to, one of the few times we weren’t fashionably late. Suppose I can give the navigator a bit of credit. Your DIY speakers are works of art, and they sounded as good as they looked. The food was excellent sir, absolutely fantastic. Sucks that the HTPC was cranky (that seemed to be a recurring theme though). Still, it was great fun rolling some tunes and being unable to speak or breathe. The bass was incredible. Gjallerhorns in the ceiling, that’s another thing I can’t do with my room…. Can only imagine what you’re going to put together for your theater downstairs, should be pretty epic.

@carp : Well, we rolled up fashionably late, again… As usual, I blame the navigator, definitely not the car, and it couldn't be the driver... Glad it was just an inline breaker that caused the amp issue, because your room was good fun. A “John Wick” bass curve? Seriously? Your projector was fantastic, the bass was great fun, but the mains stole the show, seriously. Those mains are simply amazing. As a whole, I thoroughly enjoyed your setup, the combination sets a high bar, hope that I am able to achieve something remotely close. Wish I’d have had more time to experience the room, specifically your transducer setup, but there was way too much other fun stuff going on.

@jedimastergrant : Yay, we got here on time! Extremely well-executed room, but the bass was a bit weak… Amazing picture and overall experience. Excellent acoustics and an extremely well-balanced room. I’d be thrilled if I could come up with something remotely close. Did I mention the picture was fantastic?

@chirpie : Another one where we weren’t late. Suppose I should give the navigator a bit of credit…that’s two in a row. As far as the theater? Well done sir, well done. Great picture, good sound, just a solid setup. Loved the experience, and really loved the presentation. I know I am repeating myself here, but I’d be thrilled if I could manage a similar result. I can’t wait to see what you’re conjuring up for the new place.

@ChldsPlay : Rolled in late, pretty much par for the course. Still, we got to experience most of it. Another fantastic room, extremely well-balanced sound, excellent acoustics, great image, and just a fantastic experience all around. The “secret door” setup to the equipment and media room is pretty cool.

@Stoked21 : We got there first! Yay! Holy crap man. What a theater, sad to hear that you’ve got to take it all apart, but life happens. Great picture and great sound. Comfy chairs too. Thanks for handling the after-crawl hospitality, those breaded and fried risotto balls were fantastic, the tiramisu was excellent too. Chatting with you, Jeff, Mark, and Doug until the wee hours was a great time, though my liver tells me otherwise. I sincerely appreciate the hospitality (even the wake up call).

As far as the rest of the folks I finally got to meet? It was great to get to know you all. I got to meet a lot of my “imaginary friends”, it was great to put faces to names and meet the actual person behind the screen name. Thanks again @carp for the location for a meetup Sunday, hope we didn’t damage the house too much. Epic bass was epic. Back over to @d_c ’s after we finished breaking carp’s place, cause we all needed more BBQ, bass, and beer. A group photo that partially submerged a pontoon boat? Yeah, let’s just say the group’s judgement might have still been a bit clouded. @d_c 's ninja-like reflexes kept us all dry and no one even spilled their beer.

Collectively, this experience was fantastic. I learned a bunch about what makes a theater work well for me and which parts I need to most focus on. I sincerely appreciate the invite, the effort in organizing it, and the hospitality I received from everyone. Thank you all.
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post #1338 of 1408 Old 03-13-2017, 09:22 AM
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I am new to the group and the crawl was a first for me so here is what I came out of the crawl for a review. Sorry I am still learning all the terms you all use and am finding out there is more to just putting 5 speakers around in a room with a sub.

The Start.
Friday night started at the Alamo Draft House. I had been here before when it was AMC and not much looked like it had changed. Everyone met first in the bar then we moved up to the theater to watch John Wick 2. The movie was good, but the tables are little small and the seats are comfortable for large people sitting for 2 hours in my opinion so I don’t know if I will be going back. The picture and sound were great, but I prefer the Dolby Cinema at AMC Berrywoods.

After the movie we all walked to @cvinfig ’s condo. Chuck your condo is awesome and what a view from you deck. I did not get to hear or see anything in his theater, but I did check it out and it is a perfect place for intimate movie watching. I wonder how you neighbors feel who live below and above you. You were a great host and thank you for opening up to us. You gave me directions on how to get to the trolley and that was easy. I rode the trolley back down to the P&L with one of your neighbors who had crashed the party with a friend of his. He said he had seen the signs in the lobby and wanted to see what your house looked like and see your theater. He said he is on the forum, but is not very active any more. He is more into 2.1 and listening to music and is looking to getting some new Kef speakers. He and his friend seemed ok just a little drunk and was heading to a bar downtown.

On aturday I was in Group C and it was fun talking with the others and learning more about home theaters in that most of them new more than I did.

First up @Chi eldsplay.
When I got there with the first part of the group Kevin offered us breakfast and drinks and I was not expecting that. It was very nice of him. He did say that he now understands why his wife complains about the floor shaking when he is watching a movie in that it does vibrate and shake more then he thought. He took the first group down while I waited upstairs for the rest to arrive. The floor defiantly was shaking, but you could still carry on a conversation and wasn't that bad to me, but my wife would have been saying the same thing to me about it. When we in the second group got our chance I was sitting in the back row and it was interesting experience. It felt like there was a sub under the sites or in the back row. I liked the feeling I got from the whole theater and the clip from Deep Horizon was incredible and I had seen the movie on our TV in our living room instead of my makeshift theater and now I want to re-watch it when I get it done. I wish I could have looked around his theater more, but we were pressed to get to the next one.

Next up was Stoked21.
Derek’s son greeted us and showed us where to go to the theater. His theater is a combined entertainment area with a bar and sitting area and the theater off to one side. I liked his set up and we all took turns sitting in different chairs to get different experiences. I really like the Hacksaw Ridge clip and I wanted to sit down and watch the whole movie. I liked how he could easily access his speakers if needed by just moving a panel.

@JDontee.
The first thing I noticed when I walked into his theater that the screen was very bright for having the lights up and he was replaying the super bowl. He then explained that when he was trying to decide where to build his theater his dad mentioned that he could go with rear projection. He played a clip that was for Dolby Atmos, but sounded great in his 7.2 system. It made me wonder if I want to spend the money on DA yet or not. I have the space to do rear projection I just think that a column I have in my basement may block part of the picture. I still like the idea of staying with what I am building right now.

@d_c.
When I arrived a Doug’s people were everywhere and I made a bee line to the food. Dog the food was great as promised. The dogs were very friendly and I couldn’t believe they didn’t mind all the people and the loud music. After I was done eating I went to get a drink then walked in the kitchen and could feel the floor vibrate and the lids on the food was rattling and I thought the plates on the wall was going to come down, but didn’t. When I went to walk downstairs with a full drink, someone coming up said I should drink some of it before going down the basement or I was going to lose it from the bass of the speakers. The 4000ULF was incredible and fun to experience, but I couldn’t stay down there very long. I did notice Doug re-screwing dry wall back in as the 4000 shock the walls. When I went out and sat on the deck and talked to others and Doug’s wife, she told us a story of one of your dog’s that had fallen asleep laying in one of you big speakers while she was listening to music. That was funny and the dog’s like to jam I guess.

Now to @Archaea
I think he had the best picture with the JVC-600 and the sound of the pipe organs was cool. I thought my hearing was pretty bad and I was surprised I could hear the low bass when played the samplings. Maybe I can’t hear highs well, but lows better. That may be why I don’t always understand my wife and son with their higher voices. I didn’t get to feel the near field straight on, but did sit off to the right side on the front row and could still fell it. I think a lot of us wish we could have stayed longer there.

Time for a long haul to @carp .
This was a long trip to get over to the other side of town. I am glad this was not a week day. Sheldon’s basement is about the size of what I am building for my theater and it gave me a lot of ideas for mine. I also liked his Epson 5040 projector and am thinking of getting one maybe. He played a clip from Pink Floyd the Wall and that was incredible. After reading some of the post about the John Wick clip I wish we could have heard it, but we had seen it a lot that day and we were pressed for time. I believe the screen size he has will work well in my theater. I also want to get my 7.2 system set up and eventually Dolby Atmos.

@JediMa satergrant.

Grant met us all at the door and showed us the way to the theater. I was surprised we were all able to get into the room. We all got to move around the room as he played clips. The Ginger Baker drum solo was probably one of my favorites and I want to get that DVD now. You could tell his room was very tight and soundproofed well. When I went in I remembered the post about mounting the surround speaker to the door band it was interesting how that worked out. His orbital shifter subs were impressive.

Now for it’s time for dinner so we all headed to the Blue Moose Bar and Grill. This is where we got to talk a little more with each and learn a little more about each other. AT my table they seemed to be a lot of people in the IT business. I kind of know a little bit about what they were talking about. We then headed to our last theater for the night.

[B @Chi rpie.[/B]
I was in the first group to go into Ryan’s theater to watch his clips. It was pretty cool how he had it automated and just pushed a button on his phone. The clips were cool and I was very impressed at the bass coming from just one SVS 12” sub. You would swear there were more. Also I couldn’t believe how bright and colorful the Sony 40ES was. If I don’t go faux 4K I may go with the 40ES or the new 45ES and hold out till real 4K gets more reasonable. I then made the long trip back home up north and boy was I tired and glad I had Sunday off.


In conclusion I learned that most everyone likes the AT screens and a lot of base. I am looking into changing things up and going with a larger AT screen for my build. As for bass I will be staying with my current two 300 watt 12” tower subs for now, but will be running more wiring to add more subs later if the wife is ok with it. After seeing all these awesome theaters and am thinking of moving walls that are just framed out farther to create a bigger theater and cooler experience. Thank you everyone one again for the hospitality. I just wish we could have spent more time at each theater, but since I live the area
I hope to get to experience them some more.
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post #1339 of 1408 Old 03-13-2017, 09:40 AM
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@d_c

Seriously dude? I mean seriously? You don't compete regularly? The 'que was fantastic. Considering I am a bit of a pitmaster myself, I have to say that ranked in my top 10 easily. And that cheesy corn...sweet jeebus.

Speaking of sweet jeebus, what have you drugged your wife with? Because I don't know a woman on this planet that would let any one of us get away with shoving 2 g-horns into the attic.
And then there was the 4000ULF. I am surprised that the fish in your reef tank upstairs weren't instantly liquefied!

So I have to ask...do you bribe your neighbors on weekends like that? Because I know my retiree neighbors would have the entire law enforcement staff on duty kicking my door down. We heard the bass from half way down the block!
Did I mention the bass?
I mean I consider myself a bit of a basshead but damn dude...
(Side note, you were right...I am slipping down the rabbit hole like you suggested in the Central Iowa theater crawl thread...but I *only* am going with 6 sealed HT18s.

Looks like I will have to up my smoker game when you guys head up this way next...but I have a secret weapon in my arsenal...can you say "pork belly burnt ends"?

@ZLTFUL , I to love to smoke meat and I have done pork butt burnt ends before and my wife prefers those over pulled pork now. I have been wanting to try pork belly brunt ends sometime. I do brisket burnt ends all the time. I too plan on smoking some meat for everyone when I get my theater done, but that maybe a year away or so for me.
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post #1340 of 1408 Old 03-14-2017, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Nice redemption fellas!
Those are some fantastic reviews posted recently! Great fun to read!


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post #1341 of 1408 Old 03-14-2017, 06:55 AM - Thread Starter
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I booked my flight for Saturday April 22 - to and from Chicago for the Axpona conference.
Cost of single day Axpona Conference day pass is $25. The event runs three days (fri, sat, sun) for those that can spare the time.

There is a free shuttle running from O'Hare to the Axpona event every 15 minutes (Westin Hotel Shuttle)
http://www.axpona.com/travel.asp


So if you are flying in for one day - it's only your fight expense + $25 for the conference pass.

There will be over 650 audio vendors there, and JTR will have a big footprint, showcasing in one of the ballrooms, L - LaSalle C, (seven JTR 215RT speakers in a home theater demo setup) and providing the pro-audio setup Noesis and the new 212 Pro subwoofers for the Saturday night Blues Concert as well. Mark Seaton is showcasing Seaton Sound gear (8' tall stacks of F18', Cat 12c) in the L - Grand Ballroom C.


I posted a thread here so attendees can determine who is going and potentially make arrangements to meet?
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-are...l#post51489777




@Randy Bessinger , @Mark Seaton , @Jeff Permanian , @desertdome , @eng-399 are attending. I'm not sure who else.

If you are going to attend - speak up!



Did you decide to go, @beastaudio ?


Last edited by Archaea; 03-14-2017 at 08:50 AM. Reason: fixed JTR room per DD's post below.
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post #1342 of 1408 Old 03-14-2017, 07:01 AM
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If you guys aren't going out afterwards your welcome to stop by my house afterwards. Hopefully my 4-21" B&C build will be finished by axpona.
Last year we went (5 of us) and after 5 hours walking around we seen maybe 40-50 percent of the show. There's a lot to see there. Mark seaton had one hell of a demo room there it was my favorite of the show.
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post #1343 of 1408 Old 03-14-2017, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

@Randy Bessinger , @Mark Seaton , @Jeff Permanian , @desertdome , @eng-399 are attending. I'm not sure who else.[/COLOR]
If you are going to attend - speak up!



Did you decide to go, @beastaudio ?

Working on it... I hopefully can make it.

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post #1344 of 1408 Old 03-14-2017, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
There will be over 650 audio vendors there, and JTR will have a big footprint, showcasing in one of the ballrooms, L - LaSalle B, (seven JTR 215RT speakers in a home theater demo setup) and providing the pro-audio setup Noesis and the new 212 Pro subwoofers for the Saturday night Blues Concert as well. Mark Seaton is showcasing Seaton Sound gear (8' tall stacks of F18', Cat 12c) in the L - Grand Ballroom C.
Here is the floorplan of the Lobby Level. Note that JTR has been moved to LaSalle C instead of LaSalle B.



Here is the ULF Scorecard for the JTR room:

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post #1345 of 1408 Old 03-14-2017, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Looks fun DD -- thanks for posting the room correction!


What source equipment will you be using to run the 215RT?

Archaea's 9.8.4 Home Theater Room
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post #1346 of 1408 Old 03-14-2017, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Looks fun DD -- thanks for posting the room correction!

What source equipment will you be using to run the 215RT?
I just posted this in the JTR speaker thread:

JRiver Media Center is a part owner of the room.

Source & Processor: HTPC running JRiver Media Center
Content: Blu-ray concerts, Blu-ray movies, CD's, SACD's, High resolution PCM and DSD files either stereo or multi-channel
Amplification: Two Lab Gruppen FP10000Q amps
speakers: Seven JTR Speakers Noesis 215RT
Projector: JVC DLA-RS4500 laser 4K
Screen: Seymour Screen Excellence 180" wide Enlightor 4K fabric
Video Processing: madVR video renderer with a 3D LUT
Rack: Rapid Racks 35U

Alternative source for UHD Blu-rays: OPPO UDP-205

JRiver Media Center will be used for all bass routing, high pass filters, and EQ. What is nice about a room this size is that the 1st-4th axial length and width modes are all below 40 Hz.

With Blu-ray concerts and movies, the non-LFE bass can be in the L/R channels, just Center, LCR, or any combination of LCR and surrounds. For example, The Art of Flight had some bass that just comes from the side surrounds. There are basically two ways to route the bass:
1. Reroute the LFE to all 7 channels. Each speaker plays fullrange whatever bass was originally routed to that speaker plus the LFE.
2. Combine bass below ~40 Hz (or whatever frequency) from all speakers with the LFE. Then route that to all 215RT's. All speakers play all bass below 40 Hz plus the LFE. This more like traditional bass management, but using all 7 215RT's as the "subwoofers."

Here is a list of the Blu-ray concerts we will have:
Code:
25th Anniversary Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
A John Williams Celebration
AC/DC: Live At Donington
Adele – Live at the Royal Albert Hall 
Beethoven: Piano Concerto No. 5/Korsakov: Scheherazade conducted by Andris Nelsons
Blue Man Group
Chris Botti in Boston
Cream – Live at the Royal Albert Hall
Dave Matthews - Live at Radio City
David Foster & Friends – Hit Man
David Foster & Friends – Hit Man Returns
Dream Theater – Live at Budokan
Eagles – Farewell I Tour Live From Melbourne
Elton John – Elton John 60 Live At Madison Square Gardens 
Elton John – The Million Dollar Piano
Enrique Iglesias – Bailando from Atmos Demo Blu-ray
Eric Clapton – Crossroads
Eric Clapton –  Slowhand at 70 – Live at the Royal Albert Hall 
Foo Fighters - Live At Wembley Stadium
Foo Fighters: Sonic Highways
Jeff Beck: Performing This Week... Live at Ronnie Scott's
Jethro Tull – Live at Montreux 
Joe Bonamassa – An Acoustic Evening at the Vienna Opera House
Journey – Live in Manila
Kings of Leon Live At The O2 London,England
Led Zeppelin – The Song Remains The Same
Legends – Live at Montreux (Eric Clapton & others)
Legends of Jazz
Mahler Symphonies 1-7 conducted by Claudio Abbado
Metallica – Through the Never
Michael Jackson – This is It
Nine Inch Nails – Beside you in Time
Prince – Sign O the Times
Saint-Saëns – Symphony No. 3 'Organ Symphony', Danse Macabre, Cyprès et Lauriers 
Scorpions Unplugged 
Sheryl Crow – Miles From Memphis Live at the Pantages Theater
Styx and the Contemporary Youth Choir of Cleveland:  One With Everything
U2 – iNNOCENCE and eXPERIENCE Live in Paris
Within Temptation – Black Symphony
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post #1347 of 1408 Old 03-14-2017, 01:15 PM
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Hmm, I've been called out. But I'm old, and my memory isn't so good. I did take some notes.

First of all off the top of my head without checking my notes, I did not realize until I got back that @carp started one of my favorite "off topic" threads here (a thread about metal music). I think we have very similar tastes in tunes...so I did appreciate most of his music demo selections, maybe more than others...

I said this during the crawl I was very impressed in the lack of rattles in all locations. That is something that I have been fighting...although when I say "fighting" like so many other things in my theater, my home automation, etc. I have tons of todo lists but they don't get done very quickly.

I also said this during the crawl--I am glad I only got two major "must" items to buy over the next few years after seeing all these great rooms. I needed more controllers for SceneIt (thanks @Archaea for reminding me how fun that is)--those are already bought off eBay. Now i can have up to 8 players. I think you can have up to 500 so you are ahead of me there, but 8 will do me for now.

The other thing was after visiting @dlbeck 's place and realizing I really can do a 9.4.1 setup in my room. I just need to move my surrounds down a little and put the ceiling speakers at an angle to bounce off my ceiling. That will be much later though.

Not a huge fan of fighting HTPC although I've had one for years. I will be looking at Equalizer APO, Hyperspin, MadVR, JRiver, etc. since I actually saw those working and was impressed.

Sad I don't think I have any hope of spearheading something even a fraction of what you guys did in St. Louis area, but maybe can try again in a couple of years.

If any of you guys are in St. Louis would love to have you stop by and check out my setup--I have a decent build (no build thread, long story)...I'm a little bit of a drive but just off I-55...near Litchfield. I have a few unique things I didn't see in KC.

Thanks guys!
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Last edited by turls; 03-14-2017 at 01:19 PM.
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post #1348 of 1408 Old 03-15-2017, 04:02 PM
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Apologies for not writing down any thanks or opinions on the crawl yet. I'm a pleb, been working hard on my theater ever since I got home, and ever since they blocked avs at work I don't find the time to check here nearly as often.

The Trip
Firstly I want to thank @Archaea and everyone else who helped set this up to include the most generous hosts. It was an amazing event. I would also like to thank @ZLTFUL , @jeahrens , and Russ for being great travel companions. It was a great trip, thanks for driving Ryan, thanks for sharing your room Joel, and it was great to meet and hang out with Russ.

Precrawl
The Alamo draft house was a really cool place. I enjoyed the setting being in an old building with such character. The Tank 7s at the bar and the short meet and greets were a great way to start the crawl. I was disappointed in the amount of table space and the seating definitely could have been better. The picture quality surprised me and despite one of the rear left speakers cracking a couple times during the movie the experience was still really good. I had just watched John Wick again a few days prior to this. I was happy the second movie kept with the same feel and enjoyed it very much.

Thank you @cvinfig and your wife for opening your place up for us. It was such a neat space and provided a great opportunity to meet more people and have good conversations. My only complaint was we stayed too late, was an early morning for a looong Saturday.

The theaters
@ChldsPlay
I loved your color scheme. The way you built your panels with the beveled edged on the underlying wood was a great touch. Since my theater will only be 13.5' wide I appreciated your angled columns. Hearing the front JTR stage set the precedent for the rest of the day and how I appreciate and absolutely love the sound signature. I wasn't a huge fan of the Klipsch surrounds, I found them to be too bright for my ears. The front row didn't have nearly the tactile feel that the rear row or possibly even your couch in the living room had. Obviously this is a problem with a concrete slab. This got me to look into redesigning my riser and try to incorporate a small platform for the front row as well. I liked your lighting as well. As someone who is building my 2nd theater now I was wondering if 3" lights around the perimeter like that would be sufficient, they were in your room and looked great. I thought it was really cool to show the Battlefront clip as a demo, it was unique and fun. Thanks again for having us over.

@Stoked21
Let me get this out of the way immediately, you're atmos presentation and implementation was the best I had ever heard. It actually got me to think about the layout of the atmos speakers I am setting up in my room. As previously stated, the JTR speakers really are amazing and the S8 angled surrounds did amazing for the atmos effect. You again set a precedent that would follow me throughout the rest of the day. That is the JVC projectors just can't be beat. @jeahrens has an older model and I always loved the picture quality, however, being a gamer the input lag had always put me off. I'm happy to learn during this crawl that should be a non issue on the newer models. I felt the front row was too close to the screen, obviously this is personal preference just sharing my opinion. The space was really cool, I like how you had an entertainment space and not just a dedicated theater. The gravity crash scene was amazing to watch with your atmos setup. The hacksaw ridge scene was awesome, I hadn't seen the movie and it made me buy the 4k UHD BD the day I got home and watch it that night. Thanks again for allowing us to come check out your amazing setup.

@JDontee
I was immediately impressed by the rear projection screen. The fact that you had the lights on and it was still super bright was incredibly cool. I thought it was neat that you found the equalizer apo program to mix your sound signal in a way that really did enhance your center channel. I apologize I didn't write down the specifics but your DIYSG speakers sounded very good to me, not tinny or too bright which is what I was originally worried about. I was actually really impressed by your "cheap" in wall surrounds as well. You're house is where I learned that the new JVC projectors have a new game mode that makes them much more suited for gaming. I also really liked how you used Kodi the way it was meant to be used. It is such a slick front end, I've always enjoyed it ever since having it on my original xbox (XBMC).

@d_c
The bass house, the party house, the...OMG this beans are amazing house. Seriously thanks so much for setting up lunch for everyone. The food was absolutely spectacular. The bass you had running throughout your entire home was absolutely ridiculous, and I loved every minute of it. The ghallahorns are definitely one of a kind and sound amazing. The JTR 4000 surprised me probably the most out of anything throughout the day. The sheer output that thing was capable of was unexpected and just glorious. I was happy to hear the JTR speakers in a stereo setup in the living room.

@Archaea
I'm not going to lie, your house is probably the one I was looking forward to the most. You have speakers I can actually afford lol. I was incredibly surprised on the SQ you could achieve with them, they really did sound fantastic. They are still on my consideration for my 7 channel, my reservations with them are A: am I going to be able to get them to fit in columns for the 4 surrounds, B: what atmos speakers will I pair them with. You had a solution for the atmos but I don't think I really want to go that route. I thought it was really cool that you did the bass test. The guys I was with said you ran your bass too hot for your tests, to me it was about perfect. I thought it was funny to see you were a fellow PC gamer? I've been meaning to message you about that but as stated at the beginning of this post, I'm a pleb and have troubles with time management apparently. Thanks again for setting the crawl up and inviting us to your home. If I end up going with the Mackies, I will most likely reach out for tips and what not again.

@carp
It was a very long hall to make it to carp's house. I wish we would have had more time to explore his great area. Thank you very much for providing some healthy snacks, I felt like I had too much junk food all day and it was nice to get some broccoli in me lol. I thought the bass response in your room was fantastic, don't need to change a thing in that department. I was really excited to see the Epson 5040 in action. I enjoyed it at first, but someone kept pointing out that the optics were not as good as the JVCs. I shrugged it off until we went and saw more JVCs in the following theaters and eventually agreed. Now that the JVCs have a game mode they seem very hard to beat and I think I will pay the additional money to get one over the Epson. This might also be swayed by the fact that I am on my 2nd epson, and both of them ran into the pink band on the bottom of the screen problem, and the first one had a dust blob problem.

@jedimastergrant
First thing I remember was your unique selection of music to show off your system. Not the type of music I would normally listen to but I appreciated it, it was different and sounded amazing on your system. I like what you did with your space. The sound isolation seemed superb and likely worth the hassle and additional cost you incurred. As I've already stated on other theaters above, the JVC was fantastic. Just can't wait to get one of my own. I like how you were able to add temporary seating that fit everyone at once. Also the way you rotated seats between clips was very organized and worked extremely well. Really helped get a feel for the theater from every aspect of the room.

@chirpie
This was our last stop of the night after a very looong day. Despite that it was a great experience. I love how you had the playlist all setup with a countdown timer and everything. I remembered your clips being the most exotic and extremely entertaining. I was surprised the room gains you got on your single SVS sub, you really seemed to squeeze out the performance that thing was capable of. Congratulations on building a new house, can't wait to see more progress of your next theater. Really looks like it's going to be amazing as you are so detail oriented and seem to have a deep knowledge on all aspects of building the room.

Sunday
@Scrappydue
On the way home on Sunday we stopped by Stevens house. You're theater was great to see, and even better to hear. I generally have not liked Klipsch speakers but yours were definitely different and amazing in every way. Your DIYSG 893s were second to none, literally probably the best set of them anyone has made. They sounded absolutely fantastic. Apologies I can't purchase them off you yet. lol

Closing
Thanks again to everyone for making this such a great crawl. I met a lot of great people, got to experience some amazing systems, and most importantly while I'm building my new theater now I got lots of amazing ideas. Hope to see everyone at future events.
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post #1349 of 1408 Old 03-18-2017, 06:11 AM - Thread Starter
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@slarity ,
I appreciate your review style - specifically that you felt comfortable both speaking to the positive, and the to the things you subjectively thought didn't match your preferences - you and I may be kindred.

Quite clearly a few great reviews added recently! Thanks fellows!

More to come from some of the guys we still haven't heard from??? 1 month mark today.
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post #1350 of 1408 Old 03-18-2017, 06:37 AM - Thread Starter
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I've had a couple people ask me about my playlist and specifically about the Star Spangled Banner clip. It's from a politically charged documentary called Hillary's America, that I rented on DVD from Netflix. I was really impressed with the final song clip in the documentary, and so subsequently bought the retail Bluray disk to cut that clip for the crawl. It is linked here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/65r8a1zlxq...nner.m2ts?dl=0

It occurred to me that the hosts should post their final playlists ---- and volumes used.

This is my playlist and associated volumes from the crawl demo sessions.

I used MakeMKV and TSMuxor and MKVToolNix GUI to make most of my clips off my retail purchased BluRays, and then played the clips through J-River. I just used the Denon remote to change the AVR master volume per clip.

Hillary's America - Star Spangled Banner = -6dB
DTS X - Gravity (Textures and Sound) Trailer - 4dB
Chris Botti in Boston - Katherine McPhee vocal = Reference
Dolby Atmos Amaze Trailer = - 4dB
Dolby Atmos Dolby Unfold Trailer = Reference
Brave - Bear Scene Intro = Reference
Zoolander 2 - Old and Lame = -3dB
Mad Max Fury Road (Atmos) - Movie intro = -3dB
Terminator Genisys (Atmos) - You were never strong enough = -3dB
Gravity (Atmos) - Initial debris encounter = - 3dB
Xbox Scene It Game = - 18dB
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