Wisconsin Area Home Theater Meet Thread - Page 36 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1051 of 2108 Old 01-29-2019, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
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I know I said I was likely to keep the Sony VPL-HW40ES, but I may just sell it and keep the current projector until the new ones get released instead of selling early like I have in the past.

Is anyone interested in a near mint 40ES with sub 350 hours on its first bulb for $700?

Will have it on the WI gear for sale post.

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post #1052 of 2108 Old 01-30-2019, 08:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Did anyone else have gear for sale they want me to add to the Gear For Sale post?

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post #1053 of 2108 Old 01-30-2019, 06:35 PM
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Hi, I'd like to join the WI thread as I live about an hour north of Milwaukee.
Application denied until you change your screen name.

Just kidding, welcome aboard. Nice job on the room. Always better to wire for more than what you think you'll need so you have options for the future.

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post #1054 of 2108 Old 01-30-2019, 06:39 PM
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OK... Who here will be first to implement the new official Dolby Atmos layout?
Dang, they put the rear wides right where my entry door is, so I guess I'm out. I did have a discussion with the wife about buying another set of 590s for front wides just a week ago. Seeing that Dolby is still using them in this configuration kinda helps cement that idea, even if I don't use them immediately.

Thanks for posting this,

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post #1055 of 2108 Old 01-31-2019, 04:43 AM - Thread Starter
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@srw1000

With surrounds and rears being so close together in most people's setups I'm not seeing the huge benefit of what rear wides would bring TBH.

I think I will be stopping at 9.1.4 for the foreseeable future.

So we will have to go to @pennynike1 's if we feel the need for 9.1.6 and greater.

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post #1056 of 2108 Old 01-31-2019, 05:50 AM
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Application denied until you change your screen name.
LOL! When I moved back to WI I did try to change my screen name and ended up with an official AVS forum infraction for using a different email! The AVS admins I think are relatives of the Russian gestapo...
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post #1057 of 2108 Old 01-31-2019, 06:32 AM
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Speaking about multi-speaker setups.

I have only ever had 5.1 and wont change that any time soon given my room limitations, however I have recently been wondering.

Say I have 5.1 now, and added 2 speakers. What would most people recommend for the configuration with 7 speakers.

7.1 or 5.1.2?

And then say I add 2 more speakers to go to 9. Would you go with 5.1.4 or 7.1.2?

My guess is 5.1.2 and then 7.1.2.

Also what's the recommended way or what are systems called nowadays to upmix say 5.1 into 5.1.2 or 7.1.2.

I have a Denon X4200w right now and I feel like there are multiple systems these days like something form Dolby (Dolby Surround?), something from DTS (DTS Neural:X?), and something called Auro3D. I've only ever had to think about upmixing from stereo to 5.1 before and I feel I haven't kept up on the terminology heh.

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post #1058 of 2108 Old 01-31-2019, 06:32 AM
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LOL! When I moved back to WI I did try to change my screen name and ended up with an official AVS forum infraction for using a different email! The AVS admins I think are relatives of the Russian gestapo...
Yes, it is a hazard to put a geographic location in your name (in case you move).
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post #1059 of 2108 Old 01-31-2019, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
Speaking about multi-speaker setups.

I have only ever had 5.1 and wont change that any time soon given my room limitations, however I have recently been wondering.

Say I have 5.1 now, and added 2 speakers. What would most people recommend for the configuration with 7 speakers.

7.1 or 5.1.2?

And then say I add 2 more speakers to go to 9. Would you go with 5.1.4 or 7.1.2?

My guess is 5.1.2 and then 7.1.2.

Also what's the recommended way or what are systems called nowadays to upmix say 5.1 into 5.1.2 or 7.1.2.

I have a Denon X4200w right now and I feel like there are multiple systems these days like something form Dolby, something from DTS, and something called Auro3D. I've only ever had to think about upmixing from stereo to 5.1 before and I feel I haven't kept up on the terminology heh.
Having moved from 5.1 to 7.1 years ago, I remember hearing only a slight improvement. I think you would be much better off with a 5.1.2 layout. Dolby Atmos and DTS:X are the main formats here in the States that get you the overhead speakers. However, there are some major limitations with Dolby Atmos upmixing. I'd wager almost all mid and high end AVR's have the correct decoders (Dolby and DTS) and built in amps for a full 5.x.2 speaker layout. It's when you get into 7.x.2 (or 5.x.4) and more you have to pay closer attention to internal amp channels.

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post #1060 of 2108 Old 01-31-2019, 06:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
7.1 or 5.1.2?

My guess is 5.1.2 and then 7.1.2.

Also what's the recommended way or what are systems called nowadays to upmix say 5.1 into 5.1.2 or 7.1.2.
Because of your limited space


5.1.2 would be optimal for now. Then 7.1.2 like you have suggested. But unless you are willing to move the couch a way from the wall, 5.1.2 seems to be the most realistic for your room.


As for upmixers:

DTS Neural:X
Dolby Surround

are the correct names.

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post #1061 of 2108 Old 01-31-2019, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by deewan View Post
Having moved from 5.1 to 7.1 years ago, I remember hearing only a slight improvement. I think you would be much better off with a 5.1.2 layout. Dolby Atmos and DTS:X are the main formats here in the States that get you the overhead speakers. However, there are some major limitations with Dolby Atmos upmixing. I'd wager almost all mid and high end AVR's have the correct decoders (Dolby and DTS) and built in amps for a full 5.x.2 speaker layout. It's when you get into 7.x.2 (or 5.x.4) and more you have to pay closer attention to internal amp channels.
Yeah I have plenty of content with Atmos or DTS:X and my AVR can decode both, but I do still have a ton of content with just 5.1 or 7.1 so I would want upmixing to work so that the speakers wouldn't go to waste in half my content. What are the major limitations with upmixing, it just isn't that good? I always thought Dolby PL II (now Dolby Surround) and DTS Neural:X were somewhat impressive with how well they did 2.0 to 5.1, is 5.1 to 5.1.2 or 7.1.2 just not very impressive with any upscaler?

My AVR does have 9 channel processing, however it only has 7 amps so I would need a basic 2 channel amp to go to 7.1.2. Of course they gave the AVR line 2 more channels the following year with X4300H heh.
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post #1062 of 2108 Old 01-31-2019, 06:53 AM
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Because of your limited space


5.1.2 would be optimal for now. then 7.1.2 like you have suggested. But unless you are willing to move the couch a way from the wall, 5.1.2 seems to be the most realistic for your room.


As for upmixers:

DTS Neural:X
Dolby Surround

are the correct names.
Well no I wouldn't do it in my apartment because I'm not sure how I would even mount ceiling speakers there (short of building some sort of metal bar system up my wall and across my ceiling heh). And I don't know if I am sold on the effectiveness of upward firing Atmos speakers, plus not being ale to re-use them once I move to a real theater room. And I know I need space behind the seating for 7.1.

I should have asked it more directly, but assume given an ideal rectangular basement room, how would one ideally move on from a 5.1 system, 2 channels at a time. That's really was I was just curious about peoples thought on it and just for my future knowledge when I have the opportunity to add more speakers in a real setup.
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post #1063 of 2108 Old 01-31-2019, 07:46 AM
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Nx9

Well, last night I took the plunge and opened up my JVC NX9! Shout out to @SOWK for his suggestions for optimal settings. Back in 2014 when I purchsed my first 1080p Sony projector, I could never have imagined spending this kind of money on a projector. Looking forward to showing the NX9 off the group this year

For sale: 2 Mackie c300z speakers, Tag Mclaren av32r preamplifier

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post #1064 of 2108 Old 01-31-2019, 07:52 AM - Thread Starter
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I hope the Projector throws pictures better than your camera catches them....

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post #1065 of 2108 Old 02-01-2019, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Going to head over to PennyNike1's with SirMaster tonight for a little bit of NX9 / MadVR / 2160P Compressed vs uncompressed MKV comparisons / John Wick Gun Shot Bass scene extravaganza.

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post #1066 of 2108 Old 02-01-2019, 12:05 PM
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I have been very happy with MadVR on my compressed material I also have to say, I am a little bit jealous. Have fun tonight!

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You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
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post #1067 of 2108 Old 02-01-2019, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I have been very happy with MadVR on my compressed material I also have to say, I am a little bit jealous. Have fun tonight!

Are you using MadVR for UHD HDR Tone mapping as well?

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post #1068 of 2108 Old 02-01-2019, 12:52 PM
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I have not had a chance to fiddle around with the tone mapping. I currently have it set on defaults with MPC-HC and it looks good out of the box. I should test it against MPC-BE without MadVR. I can say the 1080p compressed content with MadVR on MPC-HC looks much better than the Plex Media Player. The H265 encoding really washes out the colors.

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post #1069 of 2108 Old 02-01-2019, 12:57 PM
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If you are getting good color with HDR content on a SDR display (or an HDR display in non-HDR mode) using MadVR then you are tone mapping with MadVR which should actually be the default now and the default setting is a 200 nits target.

Plex Media Player (which uses mpv.io player via libmpv) has basic HDR tone-mapping support (as does VLC), but it's not really configurable and doesn't work well at all in my experience. It does make the picture look better than no tone-mapping (which appears completely washed out), but its result is still not what I would call usable IMO.

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post #1070 of 2108 Old 02-01-2019, 01:28 PM
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Going to head over to PennyNike1's with SirMaster tonight for a little bit of NX9 / MadVR / 2160P Compressed vs uncompressed MKV comparisons / John Wick Gun Shot Bass scene extravaganza.
That sounds like fun! Maybe I am missing something here, but why are you testing compressed MKVs?

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post #1071 of 2108 Old 02-01-2019, 01:30 PM
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That sounds like fun! Maybe I am missing something here, but why are you testing compressed MKVs?
Because I suggested the difference in quality is essentially imperceptible at a substantial disk space savings. But it's certainly an individual decision as to which you would prefer to store yourself.

I've been comparing myself for my own purposes, pixel peeping on my high res monitor, but perhaps I will find out something else when viewed from a quite large NX9 screen.

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post #1072 of 2108 Old 02-01-2019, 01:48 PM
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Because I suggested the difference in quality is essentially imperceptible at a substantial disk space savings. But it's certainly an individual decision as to which you would prefer to store yourself.

I've been comparing myself for my own purposes, pixel peeping on my high res monitor, but perhaps I will find out something else when viewed from a quite large NX9 screen.

Please post some of those results The space savings is very substantial on the UHD content. It also takes a lot of CPU time to shrink them down. I think it took 26 hours for The Black Panther and Avengers Infinity War. That was giving my Linux VM 12 threads on a Ryzen 1700X, stock clocks. Handbrake keeps crashing due to a .Net issue on Windows.

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post #1073 of 2108 Old 02-01-2019, 01:54 PM
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Because I suggested the difference in quality is essentially imperceptible at a substantial disk space savings. But it's certainly an individual decision as to which you would prefer to store yourself.

I've been comparing myself for my own purposes, pixel peeping on my high res monitor, but perhaps I will find out something else when viewed from a quite large NX9 screen.
Gotcha! But for those results you need to run MadVR otherwise the difference is noticeable? How much space savings are you experiencing? I'm definitely interested in this because storage can be a problem. Please let us know the results with the NX9!

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post #1074 of 2108 Old 02-01-2019, 02:01 PM
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Gotcha! But for those results you need to run MadVR otherwise the difference is noticeable? How much space savings are you experiencing? I'm definitely interested in this because storage can be a problem. Please let us know the results with the NX9!
No, madVR is just something SWOK wanted to see how it compares to JVC native tone-mapping. Maybe to get a better (brighter) picture from his NX7.

It has nothing to do with the encoding comparisons, it's just something else to do

And as far as space savings, it varies wildly depending on the complexity (i.e. graininess) of the content. I've seen some movies go from around 50GB as a Remux (untouched video and 1 Atmos or DTS:X audio track) down to around 15GB for something super clean like Lucy. Or like 60GB down to about 40GB on something super grainy like Saving Private Ryan. Again, with what I would classify as an imperceptible difference in quality and I personally think I'm being rather picky. Also I will note that I never touch the audio track, the original Atmos or DTS:X is worth keeping and not too big really.

I could create some comparison screenshots (I need to find a good screenshot comparison web app to use) later and perhaps some short cutout video clips as well if people wanted to try comparing it themselves with their own eyes on their own gear.
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post #1075 of 2108 Old 02-01-2019, 02:05 PM
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No, madVR is just something SWOK wanted to see how it compares to JVC native tone-mapping. Maybe to get a better (brighter) picture from his NX7.

It has nothing to do with the encoding comparisons, it's just something else to do

And as far as space savings, it varies wildly depending on the complexity (i.e. graininess) of the content. I've seen some movies go from around 50GB as a Remux (untouched video and 1 Atmos or DTS:X audio track) down to around 15GB for something super clean like Lucy. Or like 60GB down to about 40GB on something super grainy like Saving Private Ryan. Again, with what I would classify as an imperceptible difference in quality and I personally think I'm being rather picky. Also I will note that I never touch the audio track, the original Atmos or DTS:X is worth keeping and not too big really.

I could create some comparison screenshots (I need to find a good screenshot comparison web app to use) later and perhaps some short cutout video clips as well if people wanted to try comparing it themselves with their own eyes on their own gear.
Very cool. No need to do the screen shots, but demo clips for future GTGs would be awesome!

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post #1076 of 2108 Old 02-01-2019, 03:43 PM
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Compression can take the size down, but again varies wildly. Audio is untouched I think this was an RF 20 with medium speed.

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post #1077 of 2108 Old 02-01-2019, 11:48 PM
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Just got home from the little GTG with @SWOK and @pennynike1 .

I... have... no... words...

Wow, what a home theater experience! Thank you pennynike1 for having me and sharing your epic system!

We actually got a lot accomplished. We spent a little time just demoing some scenes for me to experience pennynike1's personal bass mode which was just out of this world, feeling the massive shockwave hit you when something big happened on screen.

After that we compared Oppo vs. JVC built-in vs. madVR tone-mapping. Once we got the madVR settings set right (i.e. getting it to tone-map to BT.2020) the results were just incredible when mapping to 100 nits on his giant screen. Both the Oppo and the JVC did respectable jobs tone-mapping, but each had some pretty big and annoying drawbacks. madVR seemed to have no drawbacks in regards to picture quality.

It looks like 2 people will soon be owners of new HTPCs

We did compare a couple shots between untouched UHD and compressed and the consensus seemed to be that yeah the quality is "pretty much" perfect. It's possible to spot that there are differences in the more grainy structures, but the differences are pretty minute and would not be something that would really interfere with the overall quality of the picture and viewing.

A purist may still want to keep uncompressed and I can certainly respect and understand that, just depends on how many movies you are going to have and how much HDD space you are willing to manage.

But man, what a fun night hanging out and just talking about home theater stuff. Looking forward to many more!

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post #1078 of 2108 Old 02-02-2019, 05:07 AM - Thread Starter
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SirMaster is a vast wealth of knowledge. What a fantastic addition to our group.



Few items:


1. MadVR properly setup... Epic is all I can say. So much so, that I will be testing MadVR on my own setup and if I love the results as much as I did at Alex's I will be building a HTPC sooner rather than later.


2. Compressed MKV vs Uncompressed... I can see a difference close to the screen, and possibly even at seating distance (From Alex's first row) on a "Still" image. We are at the point of "impossible to tell" without Direct A-B with immediate switching.
So I can understand why some people would choose to do this. I personally still wont because of my OCD tendency and the purist in me would rather just buy another 8TB+ HDD once I fill one.


3. Thank you again to Alex for being so gracious to let yet another Home Theater Enthusiast into his home to experience your amazing system.


4. NX9 Lens is BEAUTIFUL!!!! So crystal clear from corner to corner, UHD Computer text was just as easy to read on the projector as it was from an actual computer display.


5. WOW... What a striking image we were able to achieve once we got MadVR dialed in. It took what I LOVE about my NX7's image and made it bright enough to use REC 2020 Color Profile on Alex's NX9 but with even BETTER tone mapping.


I could go on for days how great the NX9 with MadVR was, but I will stop at this point. LOL


Alex, once again you have been able to raise the Home Theater bar yet again!

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SOWK Home Theater

Last edited by SOWK; 02-02-2019 at 11:11 AM.
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post #1079 of 2108 Old 02-02-2019, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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So its official.... madVR will be a project in Feb to finish.


Once I learn it fully Nick and I will plan a training class for our Wisconsin members if they too want the best tone mapping on the planet!!!!! Except maybe a lumagen.

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post #1080 of 2108 Old 02-02-2019, 12:00 PM
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@SOWK what are you planning on building for the HTPC?

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Stormbreaker | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread | The Devastator Index
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
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