Wisconsin Area Home Theater Meet Thread - Page 37 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1081 of 1966 Old 02-03-2019, 07:55 PM
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Had a great time today over at @Mike_WI today, in order to see how well the Lumagen handled tone mapping on a JVC projector. I got a chance to see @SOWK work his magic with a calibration of the JVC projector and the Lumagen. Man did the picture look super nice by the time we concluded things. I was very envious of how nice of a job the Lumagen does with tone mapping as well.

As far as I have seen, the Lumagen and MadVr are the 2 best options for tone mapping HDR content. If money was no object, I would choose the Lumagen, but MadVr is likely the the best price to performance option currently on the market!

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post #1082 of 1966 Old 02-03-2019, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennynike1 View Post
Had a great time today over at @Mike_WI today, in order to see how well the Lumagen handled tone mapping on a JVC projector. I got a chance to see @SOWK work his magic with a calibration of the JVC projector and the Lumagen. Man did the picture look super nice by the time we concluded things. I was very envious of how nice of a job the Lumagen does with tone mapping as well.

As far as I have seen, the Lumagen and MadVr are the 2 best options for tone mapping HDR content. If money was no object, I would choose the Lumagen, but MadVr is likely the the best price to performance option currently on the market!
Great to have you guys come out and for SOWK to optimize the picture.

HT: Oppo UDP-203 -> Lumagen RadiancePro 4446 {18 GHz input x2 & 18 GHz output x1 cards} - "new (112818 FW)" 18 GHz microcode - parallel outs to --> [Audio: Denon 5308CI] --> [Video: JVC RS520 FW v30.1]
HT Details: link
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post #1083 of 1966 Old 02-03-2019, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
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You are very welcome Mike.

I want to also thank Alex for allowing me to see the JVC NX9 before he sells it to purchase more of his JBL speaker setup!

The lens of the JVC NX9 is outstanding.
The color is top notch
Contrast is a highlight feature as well

I know whomever ends up with your JVC NX9 is in for a serious visual treat!

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post #1084 of 1966 Old 02-03-2019, 08:24 PM
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What a great weekend. It isn't often that I get to witness 2 excellent tone mapping devices, especially so close-in-time together, but that is exactly what @SOWK was able to arrange for me this weekend! Thanks Tony!!

On Friday, I had the opportunity to meet @SirMaster , and Tony and I got the unique opportunity to see what an amazing job the MadVr handled tone mapping with the NX9. I really felt it was truly amazing on my 13 foot wide screen!! It was great to meet you Nick, and thank you for the suggestions for the gaming PC build as well. A very sincere welcome to the WI group

Today, Mike was nice enough to allow me to see his JVC 520 in action with an ISCO III anamorphic lens, combined with a Lumagen. While it was not apples to apples due to smaller screen size and added brightness associated with the lens, I was extremely impressed with how the Lumagen handled the tone mapping as compared to the JVC 520 itself and the Oppo.

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post #1085 of 1966 Old 02-04-2019, 05:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Alright guys I'm looking to get down a date for my first GTG and my first chance to get to meet some of you. I'm located in Sussex, WI.

Looks like Sunday 2/17 works better so far so I am setting the date to that. I'm not sure what time-frame yet either but I am open to whatever works best for everyone.

I want to keep it small as this is my first GTG and I only really have 5 seats and seeing as it is an apartment, so I am limiting it to 4 guests.

Gear that you will get to see and hear:
Panasonic PT-AE8000U (with 3D ability to use) (and an interesting custom apartment mounting solution)
136" DIY painted screen
Denon X4200W AVR
Axiom M22 Front / VP100 Center / QS4 surround
BIC F12 Sub (I know, I know, but it IS an apartment after all )

Bonus things to do and see if people want:
Sennheiser HD800 headphones and Woo Audio WA7 DAC/Tube Amp
HTC Vive VR setup with large roomscale playspace
Interesting hybrid home server / HTPC virtual machine setup for mass video storage, backups, and media playback on for the theater.

So I figure we can hang out and do what people want, watch/listen to video demo clips, watch a full movie (I have LOTS on my file server), eat some food and of course talk HT stuff! I am planning some upgrades soon so you guys can give me your knowledgeable suggestions and such. It should be a really fun time and a good chance to meet a few of you before I start to come to some of your own GTGs.


Sunday 2/17 Attendee list:
1. SOWK
2. pennynike1
3.
4.
Can we get 1 or 2 more? Don't be shy guys!!!!

Red Five?
Last Mile?


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post #1086 of 1966 Old 02-04-2019, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
Can we get 1 or 2 more? Don't be shy guys!!!!

Red Five?
Last Mile?

Very cool.
I can't do it that weekend.

HT: Oppo UDP-203 -> Lumagen RadiancePro 4446 {18 GHz input x2 & 18 GHz output x1 cards} - "new (112818 FW)" 18 GHz microcode - parallel outs to --> [Audio: Denon 5308CI] --> [Video: JVC RS520 FW v30.1]
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post #1087 of 1966 Old 02-04-2019, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
Can we get 1 or 2 more? Don't be shy guys!!!!

Red Five?
Last Mile?


I will ask and see what is happening that weekend. Also I find this amusing.



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You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
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post #1088 of 1966 Old 02-04-2019, 06:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Obviously its a sign you have to come.

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post #1089 of 1966 Old 02-04-2019, 06:24 AM
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Obviously its a sign you have to come.
It is your destiny.

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You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
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post #1090 of 1966 Old 02-04-2019, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
Can we get 1 or 2 more? Don't be shy guys!!!!

Red Five?
Last Mile?

I think I can make it. Would like to meet you guys.
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post #1091 of 1966 Old 02-04-2019, 07:42 AM - Thread Starter
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One more spot open!

Get that Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner!

PubG reference sorry! LOL

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post #1092 of 1966 Old 02-04-2019, 08:14 AM
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Update for my 2/17 Sussex GTG.

Gear that you will get to see and hear:
Panasonic PT-AE8000U (with 3D ability to use) (and an interesting custom apartment mounting solution)
136" DIY painted screen
Denon X4200W AVR
Axiom M22 Front / VP100 Center / QS4 surround
BIC F12 Sub (I know, I know, but it IS an apartment after all )

Bonus things to do and see if people want:
Sennheiser HD800 headphones and Woo Audio WA7 DAC/Tube Amp
HTC Vive VR setup with large roomscale playspace
Interesting hybrid home server / HTPC virtual machine setup for mass video storage, backups, and media playback on for the theater.

Sunday 2/17 Attendee list:
1. SWOK
2. pennynike1
3. tortelvis
4.
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post #1093 of 1966 Old 02-04-2019, 04:08 PM
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I had it pointed out that it is my wife's bday that weekend, not sure how I missed that... Whoops!

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You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
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post #1094 of 1966 Old 02-05-2019, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow, Wow, Wow....

It is amazing what the NX7 and NX9 can do with madVR or a Lumagen Pro tone mapping on a large screen.

Alex stopped by to check out madVR on my NX7 and I'm sure he was blown away as I was with the picture.

But I seriously NEED to focus on my baffle walls and stop playing with madVR and the projector.

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post #1095 of 1966 Old 02-06-2019, 06:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok.... We are going to need some of our members to get Epson, Sony 2160P projectors so we dont all end up looking like JVC fanboys/fangirls




Who is going to take one for the team. haha!

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post #1096 of 1966 Old 02-06-2019, 06:56 AM
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Question madVR

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
Wow, Wow, Wow....

It is amazing what the NX7 and NX9 can do with madVR or a Lumagen Pro tone mapping on a large screen.

Alex stopped by to check out madVR on my NX7 and I'm sure he was blown away as I was with the picture.

But I seriously NEED to focus on my baffle walls and stop playing with madVR and the projector.
Can you concisely explain more about was madVR is?
Do you need to go through a HTPC or another mechanism?

HT: Oppo UDP-203 -> Lumagen RadiancePro 4446 {18 GHz input x2 & 18 GHz output x1 cards} - "new (112818 FW)" 18 GHz microcode - parallel outs to --> [Audio: Denon 5308CI] --> [Video: JVC RS520 FW v30.1]
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post #1097 of 1966 Old 02-06-2019, 07:17 AM
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Can you concisely explain more about was madVR is?
Do you need to go through a HTPC or another mechanism?
The madVR website actually pretty concisely describes what it is.

Quote:
madVR is a high quality DirectShow video renderer.
Designed as a no-compromise approach, madVR tries to achieve the best possible video playback quality.
What is DirectShow?

From Wiki:
Quote:
DirectShow (sometimes abbreviated as DS or DShow), codename Quartz, is a multimedia framework and API produced by Microsoft for software developers to perform various operations with media files or streams.
Quote:
madVR Features:

· high bitdepth processing (32bit per component)
· high quality algorithms for scaling, sharpening, debanding, dithering etc.
· smooth motion playback without 3:2 pulldown judder even at 60Hz
· frame packed 3D playback via HDMI 1.4+ (Windows 8.1 or newer)
· forced film mode turns 60i movies into perfect 24p
· very reliable playback using automatic fullscreen exclusive mode
· many more...
So, madVR is a video renderer plugin/addon (the software that is decoding the video file and manipulating how it will be displayed on the screen) that is highly configurable and that focuses on a no-compromise quality-first approach.

It runs only on Windows (so yes you need an HTPC) and can only be used with certain media players that support using an external DirectShow video renderer plugin. It also pretty much requires a somewhat powerful GPU (like you would have for video gaming) if you want to engage any of the high quality image processing features and don't want to compromise on quality. Particularly an NVidia GPU. AMD GPUs work, but they do not have the same performance level as NVidia GPU's do (at least when it comes to madVR's algorithms and AMD also doesn't support a few of madVR's features)

Installation is as simple as downloading a ZIP file, extracting it to any location on the PC, and running a .bat file as administrator. Then when using one of the madVR supported media players, making sure madVR is selected as the output video renderer. madVR configuration beyond that is then all handled through a traditional Windows GUI screen.

In addition to the quoted features, madVR can also do things like color space conversion, HDR to SDR tone-mapping (and soon dynamic tone-mapping!). It can also sort of do what a Darbee does with image enhancement, if you play with the various enhancement knobs, and even other stuff i'm probably forgetting.

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post #1098 of 1966 Old 02-06-2019, 10:48 AM
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^^^
So, no stand alone madVR box.
Need HTPC to function.
Likely a great option but not as plug-and-play as many HT options.

HT: Oppo UDP-203 -> Lumagen RadiancePro 4446 {18 GHz input x2 & 18 GHz output x1 cards} - "new (112818 FW)" 18 GHz microcode - parallel outs to --> [Audio: Denon 5308CI] --> [Video: JVC RS520 FW v30.1]
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post #1099 of 1966 Old 02-06-2019, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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^^^
So, no stand alone madVR box.
Need HTPC to function.
Likely a great option but not as plug-and-play as many HT options.
Correct. It unfortunatly is currently only for the super nerds like Nick, Red Five, Rad, Alex, and I that are willing to run a HTPC.

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post #1100 of 1966 Old 02-06-2019, 10:56 AM
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^^^
So, no stand alone madVR box.
Need HTPC to function.
Likely a great option but not as plug-and-play as many HT options.
Yeah, madVR software is free, an entry-level HTPC that could do all the tone-mapping and get the up-scaling quality and such like 95% of the way to placebo starts at around $500 for a custom build so it's certainly pretty affordable.

Another big downside is that though you can play Netflix and Amazon on a HTPC, there is no way to feed either of these services into madVR, so you will not get any tone-mapping in the PC for HDR sources like this.

The typical source would be to rip your UHDs to a hard drive and play them that way, and there are some really nice programs that will make it easy and look really nice to browse through your movie collection like Kodi, Emby, and JRiver, all of which support madVR.

It's also possible to play UHD discs in the HTPC through madVR directly without ripping, but the setup, software, and special optical drive (same as a drive you would need to rip) needed to to do this is more tricky, so unfortunately it's not going to be for everyone.
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post #1101 of 1966 Old 02-06-2019, 11:09 AM
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@SirMaster I really want to see your VM setup. We just retired a host that has more than 20TB worth of spindles. I could ask my boss if I can pull it from the junk pile. He might go for it if I say it is for cat videos and science... Not sure if it is worth the power and space though

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You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
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post #1102 of 1966 Old 02-06-2019, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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@SirMaster I really want to see your VM setup. We just retired a host that has more than 20TB worth of spindles. I could ask my boss if I can pull it from the junk pile. He might go for it if I say it is for cat videos and science... Not sure if it is worth the power and space though
Tell your wife she only gets her BD on Saturday and not Sunday!

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post #1103 of 1966 Old 02-06-2019, 11:25 AM
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If you never see or hear from me again, that would be why lol. Asking about Axpona went a lot better, Saturday should workout as long as no one is really sick

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You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
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post #1104 of 1966 Old 02-06-2019, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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If you never see or hear from me again, that would be why lol. Asking about Axpona went a lot better, Saturday should workout as long as no one is really sick
AKA You will be there Saturday for Axpona?

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post #1105 of 1966 Old 02-06-2019, 11:27 AM
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@SirMaster I really want to see your VM setup. We just retired a host that has more than 20TB worth of spindles. I could ask my boss if I can pull it from the junk pile. He might go for it if I say it is for cat videos and science... Not sure if it is worth the power and space though
Ahh dang, it's too bad you can't come to my GTG then

But yeah the reason I did a VM is because before I was using a HTPC to drive my home theater, I already had a generic server PC mainly used for data storage and running other sort of headless server applications, and this server runs Linux, because that's got the best data storage tech like software RAID and such.

I decided to use my server as my HTPC because it was the most cost effective, and here's why.

These days, virtual machine tech has gotten to the point where you can pass physical devices into a virtual machine including PCIe cards like GPUs. Normally when you think of a VM, you think of bad, non-native GUI performance, you think of viewing the VM through a software VM viewer like VMWare or similar or remote desktop software like VNC or RDP or Teamviewer or something.

Well, when you pass-through a PCIe GPU into a VM, it disconnects that device from the host PC and connects it to the VM as if it's a real physical physical PC. This allows you to now connect a HDMI cable to the GPU and get native performance HDMI output from the VM.

So within my Linux server host, I am running a Windows 10 VM with a native HDMI output with full GPU performance. With GPU passthrough you only actually lose a few % of performance, it's actually pretty negligible.

And so, all I had to do in order to have essentially a full blown high-performance HTPC was to add a dedicated GPU to my server, and I had recently bought a new GPU for my gaming desktop, so I simply put the old one into my existing server. The other nice thing is that since it's all in my server, my server is already running 24/7 (because, well, it's a server), so that means my HTPC VM can simply just be running 24/7 as well and I'm not really wasting additional power running a whole separate HTPC. Just whatever extra power cost there is associated with idling a GPU in the server. With a modern GPU that's only a few extra watts. It's nice that the HTPC is always on, so when I turn on my projector, it's just there, ready to go.

For control then, you can simply pass through a USB port to the VM and use whatever controls you would normally use with a PC, you could get a USB remote or KB/mouse combo, or even a USB IR reciever like a FLIRC and map an IR remote to PC controls.

Although all being said, I would not actually recommend this sort of a setup to anyone as it can be pretty complicated to get running smoothly. It only made sense because I wanted to consolidate my computers as much as I could and since I already had a fully functioning server. But I am a software engineer by trade, so it's something I could manage without too much trouble for myself.

I'm sure I can have future GTGs as well, especially since I am planning on upgrading to a new projector soonish.
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post #1106 of 1966 Old 02-06-2019, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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^ This is why I love our new member... LOL

I only understand the generalized concepts of what he is writing about.... But he actually knows how to set all that stuff up!!!!

Hats off to your SirMaster. But please only use all that knowledge for good and not evil please!


It's like the "Force"

All that knowledge is like raw power, but lets just make sure we keep SirMaster on the Light side of the force.

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post #1107 of 1966 Old 02-06-2019, 12:02 PM
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AKA You will be there Saturday for Axpona?




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Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
Ahh dang, it's too bad you can't come to my GTG then

But yeah the reason I did a VM is because before I was using a HTPC to drive my home theater, I already had a generic server PC mainly used for data storage and running other sort of headless server applications, and this server runs Linux, because that's got the best data storage tech like software RAID and such.

I decided to use my server as my HTPC because it was the most cost effective, and here's why.

These days, virtual machine tech has gotten to the point where you can pass physical devices into a virtual machine including PCIe cards like GPUs. Normally when you think of a VM, you think of bad, non-native GUI performance, you think of viewing the VM through a software VM viewer like VMWare or similar or remote desktop software like VNC or RDP or Teamviewer or something.

Well, when you pass-through a PCIe GPU into a VM, it disconnects that device from the host PC and connects it to the VM as if it's a real physical physical PC. This allows you to now connect a HDMI cable to the GPU and get native performance HDMI output from the VM.

So within my Linux server host, I am running a Windows 10 VM with a native HDMI output with full GPU performance. With GPU passthrough you only actually lose a few % of performance, it's actually pretty negligible.

And so, all I had to do in order to have essentially a full blown high-performance HTPC was to add a dedicated GPU to my server, and I had recently bought a new GPU for my gaming desktop, so I simply put the old one into my existing server. The other nice thing is that since it's all in my server, my server is already running 24/7 (because, well, it's a server), so that means my HTPC VM can simply just be running 24/7 as well and I'm not really wasting additional power running a whole separate HTPC. Just whatever extra power cost there is associated with idling a GPU in the server. With a modern GPU that's only a few extra watts. It's nice that the HTPC is always on, so when I turn on my projector, it's just there, ready to go.

For control then, you can simply pass through a USB port to the VM and use whatever controls you would normally use with a PC, you could get a USB remote or KB/mouse combo, or even a USB IR reciever like a FLIRC and map an IR remote to PC controls.

Although all being said, I would not actually recommend this sort of a setup to anyone as it can be pretty complicated to get running smoothly. It only made sense because I wanted to consolidate my computers as much as I could and since I already had a fully functioning server. But I am a software engineer by trade, so it's something I could manage without too much trouble for myself.

I'm sure I can have future GTGs as well, especially since I am planning on upgrading to a new projector soonish.

That is a nice setup! Definitely interested in attending one of your GTGs.


The only VM I currently have running is just an Ubuntu OS on VM Workstation Player, Handbrake is more stable on Linux from my recent experience. I just have one PC now, I sold off my guest gaming PC. I am thinking about upgrading my main media drive to 6TB (yes I know that seems puny around here, but much better than 2 TB) and picking up a second drive for a cold backup I will run once a month. I am down to just one gaming PC that runs 24/7. My graphics card is getting long in the tooth and so are the spindles. My small budget has all gone towards HT stuff for the last couple of years Once the PC upgrades are done the slow HT upgrade crawl can resume (who knew an $80 RX-V663 could become so costly).

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You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
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post #1108 of 1966 Old 02-06-2019, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post
^^^
So, no stand alone madVR box.
Need HTPC to function.
Likely a great option but not as plug-and-play as many HT options.
Like you, I would prefer a plug and play option. I think dynamic tone mapping will change everything. If madvr implements that, then a HTPC is in my future. I would buy the lumagen right now if it had dynamic tone mapping. My understanding that dynamic tone mapping is in beta with madvr.

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post #1109 of 1966 Old 02-06-2019, 12:22 PM
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My understanding that dynamic tone mapping is in beta with madvr.
Yep, it is, and it should be released in the next release. Not that you can't use it in beta now, the beta is public, but I just don't think it's worth the time figuring out until they make the final decisions for its release, because it might change yet.
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post #1110 of 1966 Old 02-06-2019, 06:56 PM
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Correct. It unfortunatly is currently only for the super nerds like Nick, Red Five, Rad, Alex, and I that are willing to run a HTPC.
And here I thought I was just a standard run of the mill nerd.... not a SUPER nerd! 🙂

The amount of knowledge in our Wisconsin group is incredible. Thanks for all of the info and explanations @SirMaster !

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