Wisconsin Area Home Theater Meet Thread - Page 84 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2491 of 2734 Old 02-10-2020, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
@pennynike1 next month! Prepare for something truly spectacular when it comes to cutting edge home theater hardware. A true no holds barred theater experience.


DTS X: PRO - Check!
32 Channel Trinnov - Check!
12 Earth Shattering Subwoofers - Check!
28 Top of The Line JBL Synthesis Speakers - Check!
3 DTS:X Pro Ground Speakers - Check!
2 DTS:X Pro only center overhead Speakers - Check!
> 50,000 Watts of power - Check!
Enormous Acoustically Transparent Screen - Check!
Top of the line 4K UHD Projector - Check!
MadVR Upscaling and Tone Mapping - Check!


New Demo Content featuring Atmos and DTS X Pro? - Check! (haha)


Great Time Guaranteed... - CHECK!



Would love to make this but I won't really know if I can make it work until that week. Be a treat to see Turtle Odyssey in all its DTS: X Pro glory (this may be an inside joke from the Trinnov thread).
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post #2492 of 2734 Old 02-10-2020, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tcramer View Post
Would love to make this but I won't really know if I can make it work until that week. Be a treat to see Turtle Odyssey in all its DTS: X Pro glory (this may be an inside joke from the Trinnov thread).

There will be plenty of Turtle Odyssey!
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post #2493 of 2734 Old 02-10-2020, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by tcramer View Post
Would love to make this but I won't really know if I can make it work until that week. Be a treat to see Turtle Odyssey in all its DTS: X Pro glory (this may be an inside joke from the Trinnov thread).
It would be great to have you, Tyler. Hopefully you are able to make it!

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post #2494 of 2734 Old 02-12-2020, 06:13 PM
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Pretty cool idea for everyone with preview screens.

https://www.reddit.com/r/homeautomat...ly_to_connect/
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post #2495 of 2734 Old 02-13-2020, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
for anyone coming to the GTG today depending what time you come over, we may not hear the front door. If no answers the door I will also have the garage door open. Go stratight to the back wall and down the stairs to get to the theater.


Just saw this today, which explains why I came to the front door!


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post #2496 of 2734 Old 02-17-2020, 01:31 PM
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An update to those planning to attend my gtg on 3/21. I have now sold my 2nd JVC NX9. My original thoughts were to go out and buy a new nx9, but I have spent so much money of late, I am considering just going out and buying an nx5 to hold me over until the next line of JVC projectors are announced.
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post #2497 of 2734 Old 02-17-2020, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by pennynike1 View Post
An update to those planning to attend my gtg on 3/21. I have now sold my 2nd JVC NX9. My original thoughts were to go out and buy a new nx9, but I have spent so much money of late, I am considering just going out and buying an nx5 to hold me over until the next line of JVC projectors are announced.
It's not my money, but I would agree on waiting.
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post #2498 of 2734 Old 02-18-2020, 01:30 PM
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Quad Devastator update: it was a fun collaborative project that has now concluded

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post59198102
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post59263780

Room updates: I finally talked myself into running an HDMI cable to my projector vs using the wireless adapter. It required cable pulling through a wall and a ceiling, hence why I was not in a huge hurry to go through with it. The cable is basically a projector upgrade, very happy with the results! Also a night and day difference for input lag...
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post #2499 of 2734 Old 02-23-2020, 03:59 AM
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We are now less than a month away from my GTG on 3/21.

Here are the 21 confirmed attendees thus far:

@OdysseusG
@SteveFred
@Imidgit
@feistyacorn + Holly
@SirMaster
@SOWK
@srw1000 + Nicki
Scott Newby
Douglas Moldovan
@giomania
@lbrown105
@MMG!
@sdrucker
@PrestigeAudio
@drhack
@joeythesuper
PJ Rupp + 1 friend (Elvin)
@zacLASTECH

If any other attendees intend to bring a significant other, please advise.

There are also some members who have expressed interest in possibly attending, but I have not received official confirmation of intend to attend. This includes, but is not limited to:

@tcramer
@thebland
Jen (Steve's wife)
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post #2500 of 2734 Old 02-23-2020, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennynike1 View Post
We are now less than a month away from my GTG on 3/21.

Here are the confirmed attendees thus far:

@OdysseusG
@SteveFred
@IMI dgitd
@feistyacorn
@SirMaster
@SOWK
@srw1000 + Nicki
Scott Newby
Douglas Moldovan
@giomania
@lbrown105
@MMG!
@sdrucker
@PrestigeAudio

If any other attendees intend to bring a significant other, please advise.

There are also some members who have expressed interest in possibly attending, but I have not received official confirmation of intend to attend. This includes, but is not limited to:

@tcramer
@thebland

Hi Alex,


I am looking forward to your GTG . Could you put my wife down as a maybe, she will not know for sure until the week of unfortunately


Steve
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post #2501 of 2734 Old 02-23-2020, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveFred View Post
Hi Alex,


I am looking forward to your GTG . Could you put my wife down as a maybe, she will not know for sure until the week of unfortunately


Steve
Absolutely Steve! I added her to the maybe list

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post #2502 of 2734 Old 02-23-2020, 08:34 AM
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@pennynike1 - wow this sounds great! I have been off the forum for a while, but just getting back into it and am based in Chicagoland.


Let me know if I can attend (just myself).


Thanks.
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post #2503 of 2734 Old 02-23-2020, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by drhack View Post
@pennynike1 - wow this sounds great! I have been off the forum for a while, but just getting back into it and am based in Chicagoland.


Let me know if I can attend (just myself).


Thanks.
Hi there. Absolutely - You are most welcome to attend. It will be great to see some fresh new faces in March
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post #2504 of 2734 Old 02-23-2020, 09:53 AM
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For any of you that are Amazon Prime members, you may find this sale of interest. Woot is having a BOGO sale on shirts right now, and one of them is quite appropriate to the upcoming GTG, and many of those in the past and future.

Turn It Up to 11

The sale only goes until 2/25, and shipping is free for Prime members (you have to log into your Amazon account to get the discounts).

Scott
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post #2505 of 2734 Old 02-23-2020, 02:42 PM
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Just curious, does anyone have diysoundgroup speakers locally? I've been going back and forth on pulling the trigger.
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post #2506 of 2734 Old 02-24-2020, 04:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lmidgitd View Post
Just curious, does anyone have diysoundgroup speakers locally? I've been going back and forth on pulling the trigger.
While I don’t personally know everyone in the group, I have meet most and unfortunately I don’t believe we have any with the diysoundgroup speakers.

I would ask that same question in the diysoundgroup thread and if you find one close enough, feel free to invite them to our group.

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post #2507 of 2734 Old 02-24-2020, 05:39 AM
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Just curious, does anyone have diysoundgroup speakers locally? I've been going back and forth on pulling the trigger.

HT12s are my next room upgrade for the LCR, that would give me space for six more subs if I got a bit crazy. No timeline on that project, I have to see where things are at after kiddo number two gets here I am friends with one of the Michigan guys, he is very much impressed with the HT12s. When he finishes his downstairs he plans on using them in that room.
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post #2508 of 2734 Old 02-24-2020, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by pennynike1 View Post
We are now less than a month away from my GTG on 3/21.

Here are the confirmed attendees thus far:

@OdysseusG
@SteveFred
@Imidgit
@feistyacorn
@SirMaster
@SOWK
@srw1000 + Nicki
Scott Newby
Douglas Moldovan
@giomania
@lbrown105
@MMG!
@sdrucker
@PrestigeAudio
@drhack
@joeythesuper

If any other attendees intend to bring a significant other, please advise.

There are also some members who have expressed interest in possibly attending, but I have not received official confirmation of intend to attend. This includes, but is not limited to:

@tcramer
@thebland
Jen (Steve's wife)
Holly (Rad's wife)
PJ Rupp
If you're not overbooked, I'd love to stop by on 3/21!
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post #2509 of 2734 Old 02-24-2020, 08:43 AM
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If you're not overbooked, I'd love to stop by on 3/21!
You are most welcome to attend, Tom. It will be good to catch up with you on 3/21
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post #2510 of 2734 Old 02-24-2020, 10:36 AM
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He is very much impressed with the HT12s.
Thanks for the response. That's great to hear that he enjoys them. I'm sure they will sound great!
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post #2511 of 2734 Old 02-27-2020, 08:05 AM - Thread Starter
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I believe Alex will run three demo groups.


He can fit 7 people per demo group. (comfortably)


He will have at least one of the demo groups be for the bass heads, so please let us know if you want to be part of the bass head group.

If we get 14 people that want more of the extreme bass we can do two groups of extreme bass.


Schedule:


This is all tentative: and could change



There will be ~1 hour worth of demos for each group.


Group 1 will do their first 30 min demo session


Group 2 will do their first 30 min demo session


Group 3 will do their first 30 min demo session (Bass head group)


(small break so we can mingle.)


Group 3 will do their second 30 min demo session (Bass head group)


Group 1 will do their second 30 min demo session


Group 2 will do their second 30 min demo session


(small break so we can mingle and maybe eat)


Movies


BASS HEAD Group 1:

Scott Newby
Douglas Moldovan
PJ Rupp
Elvin






REMINDER... "Alex's Reference Bass will still be about 20dB hot... "
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post #2512 of 2734 Old 02-27-2020, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
I believe Alex will run three demo groups.


He can fit 7 people per demo group. (comfortably)


He will have one of the demo groups be for the bass heads, so please let us know if you want to be part of the bass head group.


Probably three more seats in that one.


Scott Newby, Douglas Moldovan, PJ Rupp, Elvin will be in the bass extreme demo group.


If we get 14 people that want more of the extreme bass we can do two groups of extreme bass.




Schedule:


This is all tentative: and could change



There will be ~1 hour worth of demos for each group.


Group 1 will do their first 30 min demo session


Group 2 will do their first 30 min demo session


Group 3 will do their first 30 min demo session (Bass head group)


(small break so we can mingle.)


Group 3 will do their second 30 min demo session (Bass head group)


Group 1 will do their second 30 min demo session


Group 2 will do their second 30 min demo session


(small break so we can mingle and maybe eat)


Moives
The official schedule will be dependent on when people arrive, but it would be great if we could started with the first demo group by 12:00 pm. 1st group will likely be 1st come, first served. If there are 7 there who want big bass at 12:00, that will become the first group. Otherwise, group 1 will be more at reference.

It is looking like I will likely have 21 people or more for this GTG, so it is important that things flow smoothly. People should plan to arrive about 15 minutes early if they wish to participate in the demo sessions. So, 11:45 am would be a good target to arrive if you want to be in the 1st demo group.
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post #2513 of 2734 Old 02-27-2020, 08:47 AM
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Note to self, make double sure to bring all my ear plugs. Can I specially request an avoiding hearing damage, preferably maxing out around reference level group? INB4 "where's the fun in that?"
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post #2514 of 2734 Old 02-27-2020, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by OdysseusG View Post
Note to self, make double sure to bring all my ear plugs. Can I specially request an avoiding hearing damage, preferably maxing out around reference level group? INB4 "where's the fun in that?"

I'll be in that group with you too. No worries.

I know I am a party pooper.


Alex will be focusing on showing off what a 32 channel system can do in the other 2 groups primarily. So the bass will not be high enough in those to mask what the rest of the system is doing.
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post #2515 of 2734 Old 02-27-2020, 08:51 AM
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Note to self, make double sure to bring all my ear plugs. Can I specially request an avoiding hearing damage, preferably maxing out around reference level group? INB4 "where's the fun in that?"
Yes, there are some in our group that prefer closer to reference, such as Tony, Scott, and Nicki. The speakers will be at reference for all sessions. The bass level will just change, depending on people's preferences in each demo group.
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post #2516 of 2734 Old 02-27-2020, 12:54 PM
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I would normally fall into the near reference bass category, but Alex's theater is just way too much fun in Extreme mode.

Also, not sure if this is a good deal or not, but it popped into my inbox and I figured I would share: https://sellout.woot.com/offers/gree...=w_cnt_wp_0_15
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post #2517 of 2734 Old 02-27-2020, 01:16 PM
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I think I would like to demo in “Alex mode”, so I have a clear understanding of what that means.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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post #2518 of 2734 Old 02-27-2020, 02:11 PM
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I think I would like to demo in “Alex mode”, so I have a clear understanding of what that means.


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Alex mode is the middle tier mode. There is another level that we term Extreme, which Tony, Rad and Holly experienced at my last GTG with The Conjuring. The bass caused some drywall to fall close to my basement door.

The door slam in IT is something to behold in Extreme mode. It packs quite a punch!

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post #2519 of 2734 Old 02-27-2020, 03:16 PM
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Thanks for asking, desertdome.

I have four JTR Captivator 1400s (three original 2015 models and the fourth one is the last generation). They're placed on the front and rear walls 1/4 of from the side walls. Here's a screen shot from REW's room sim that shows the positioning:



The back right sub is the more recent Cap, and the theater door is on the side wall next to it, just in front of the sub. All four subs were gain-matched prior to testing. A Cross Spectrum calibrated UMIK-1 was placed at the primary listening position.

I do not have the subs' heights aligned, due to the height of the riser in the back of the room. One thing I thought I'd try would be to turn the front subs upside down so the port is on top, which would get them more closely aligned.

My receiver's sub output feeds into a MiniDSP 2x4HD, with each of the outputs going to one of the four subs.

From there, I time-aligned the output of the front subs, and then the rear pair. This was done by looking for the smoothest response from each set of pairs, since I didn't have the ASIO drivers working in REW at that point, so I will have to go back and align them with an impulse response.

The next step was to invert the two back subs and change the sub delays. I started with a delay of 7 ms on the front subs, and 0 ms on the back subs, and then took measurements at one ms intervals until the rear subs had a delay of about 45 ms, and also flipped the polarity each way after each change, so it was over 100 measurements. Once I got to the graphs with the fewest valleys, I adjusted the gains on the rear outputs of the MiniDSP to see if there were any improvements.

That sounds like it would take a long time, but one of the beautiful things about the MiniDSP and REW tools is that it only takes a few seconds to change settings and remeasure, so the process is pretty efficient. I was really hoping that at one of those 1 ms changes that the frequency response would have just snapped into place, but it didn't happen.

Once that was done, I set a house curve and had REW calculate EQ parameters and fed them to the MiniDSP. I ended up with a better response than before, but not a clean as some other people have gotten. Also note that I haven't tested out how they sound with any real content yet, so I'm just basing the results on REW response graphs. This may not be wise.

What I still plan to do:
  • Time align the subs using REW's impulse response feature and retest
  • Try flipping the front Caps upside down to get the cones closer in height to the rear subs and retest
  • Take measurements from the front three chairs and the two middle chairs of the back row and plug them into the multi-sub optimizer
  • Construct some bass traps, which are definitely needed for the corners of the room, then go back and redo all measurements

Scott
A few comments:
If your newest 1400 has anything that measures different from the other subs, then it won't work in a double bass array. All subs have to be completely identical down to their phase and amplifier latency.

The correct placement for two subwoofers is:
y1 = y2 = 0
x1 = 1/4Lx ; x2 = 3/4Lx
z1 = z2 = 1/2Lz
This means you need to put the subs at the 1/2 way point between floor to ceiling, too. You have to be equidistant from the width and height planes in order to create a plane wave. You can't cheat and put some subs lower or higher.

The rear speakers need inverted polarity, delay, and reduction in gain.
The delay for the rear speakers uses this formula:
Delay = Length of room/speed of sound (1125 ft/s)
For a 26.08' long room, it would be 23.18 ms. Since the wave forms at the wall behind the subwoofers, the length of the room is used.

The gain reduction must exactly match the loss of SPL the front wave has as it travels to the back of the room. For your room length this is 6-8 dB depending on room treatments. This makes a huge difference!


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post #2520 of 2734 Old 02-27-2020, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
A few comments:
If your newest 1400 has anything that measures different from the other subs, then it won't work in a double bass array. All subs have to be completely identical down to their phase and amplifier latency.

The correct placement for two subwoofers is:
y1 = y2 = 0
x1 = 1/4Lx ; x2 = 3/4Lx
z1 = z2 = 1/2Lz
This means you need to put the subs at the 1/2 way point between floor to ceiling, too. You have to be equidistant from the width and height planes in order to create a plane wave. You can't cheat and put some subs lower or higher.

The rear speakers need inverted polarity, delay, and reduction in gain.
The delay for the rear speakers uses this formula:
Delay = Length of room/speed of sound (1125 ft/s)
For a 26.08' long room, it would be 23.18 ms. Since the wave forms at the wall behind the subwoofers, the length of the room is used.

The gain reduction must exactly match the loss of SPL the front wave has as it travels to the back of the room. For your room length this is 6-8 dB depending on room treatments. This makes a huge difference!


Thanks for the tips, DD. There's no practical way for me to lift the subs up by five feet, so a 100% DBA setup won't be in my future, so I'll settle for a PDBA (Pseudo Double Bass Array).

That said, I did some more testing and evaluation after my original post, and got some better (not great) results.

I started by time-aligning the front subs as a pair, and then the rears. I ran through 1ms differences between the front pair and rear pair, and ended up with a 23.25ms delay, which is very close to your calculation. I did try reducing the gain on the rear subs, but the results were worse. I'm not sure if I went as low as 8 dB, though, so that may be worth revisiting. Here are the results of what I've got so far:



These are the best results I've gotten with my four subs so far, and using the MiniDSP's EQ feature, I was able to pull the peaks down to get a pretty even response, with a bit of a house curve.

I was really hoping to get rid if the big null at 97 Hz with my mains, and I was able to do that, but it came at the cost introducing a very wide dip between 43 - 60 Hz. That's going to require a different strategy.

Scott
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