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post #9811 of 9825 Old 04-22-2020, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by dschulz View Post
So my question is this: have you seen anyone with a curved baffle wall, in order to get some toe in on the L/R pair? And with careful design and tuning can you achieve that same depth of soundstage with baffle-mounted or in-wall speakers when running in 2-channel stereo mode? Or is our inability to place the mains speakers 2 or 3 feet away from the wall an inherent compromise here?
Here's an example of a curved baffle wall from Nyal:



It is detailed further in this AVS thread.

If the magic of a good stereo involves room reflections off the front and side walls, there's little chance of achieving it in a theater. I see many enthusiasts with dedicated spaces for each purposes.
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post #9812 of 9825 Old 04-24-2020, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by dschulz View Post
Usually to achieve this sort of imaging, the two speakers need to be placed well into the listening room, rather than against the back wall.
I'm going to start by assuming what you call back wall (wall behind the speakers) is what I call front wall (wall in front of listeners). Moving speakers away from the front wall changes the ratio between the direct sound from the speakers and their reflections off the front wall. Since these reflections are coming from the same direction as the direct sound, then can muddy the front soundstage. IF you can't place the speakers away from the front wall, broadband absorption between them will do the same thing.
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Toeing in the speakers also helps quite a bit.
Not all reflections are unwanted. Side wall reflections come from outside the L/R speakers, helping to widen the front soundstage and give a greater sense of spaciousness (their near-wall reflections are roughly where the Wides would go). You can control this effect with toe in: the more you toe in the speakers, the less their side wall reflections; the more you toe them out (e.g., pointing straight into the room), the more spacious the sound. Like having a slider that says Envelopment on one end and Detail on the other. Your preference will likely be somewhere in between.
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So my question is this: have you seen anyone with a curved baffle wall, in order to get some toe in on the L/R pair?
One of our local home theatre group, @adude (Manoj), has a curved baffle wall. From what I remember, his L/R speakers are cross-toed (aimed at the listener at the opposite end of the couch) for some time/energy trading.
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And with careful design and tuning can you achieve that same depth of soundstage with baffle-mounted or in-wall speakers when running in 2-channel stereo mode? Or is our inability to place the mains speakers 2 or 3 feet away from the wall an inherent compromise here?
You achieve the same results using any of the methods that minimize front wall reflections between the speakers: move them away from the front wall, cover the front wall with absorption, baffle mount the speakers.

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post #9813 of 9825 Old 04-24-2020, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
You achieve the same results using any of the methods that minimize front wall reflections between the speakers: move them away from the front wall, cover the front wall with absorption, baffle mount the speakers.
Thanks! This would be fun to experiment with.

Another thing that occurred to me is that some of the pleasing effect may be psychological - when you can *see* the speakers, but clearly *hear* instruments from both in front of and behind the plane defined by the two speakers, you marvel at how cool that is; an effect that is diminished when you're looking at a screen. You may hear the same depth of soundstage, but be less struck by it.
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post #9814 of 9825 Old 04-24-2020, 06:29 PM
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If you were able to get the speakers setup right for a solid 2 channel rig...I wonder how much affect the screen would have if any on the sound..?

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post #9815 of 9825 Old 04-24-2020, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by WOKNROX View Post
If you were able to get the speakers setup right for a solid 2 channel rig...I wonder how much affect the screen would have if any on the sound..?
Screen attenuation is a pretty known quantity, and can be measured and compensated for with EQ.

Although that raises a separate question - for those who have adopted the practice of using room optimization only up to the Schroeder frequency, do they not worry about the screen attenuation?
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post #9816 of 9825 Old 04-24-2020, 10:00 PM
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Although that raises a separate question - for those who have adopted the practice of using room optimization only up to the Schroeder frequency, do they not worry about the screen attenuation?
Even if you're limiting automated room correction to below the transition range, you can still use PEQ to manually compensate for screen loss. Those that are are absolutist about it can tell themselves that they're technically not doing "room" correction above transition.

The same speaker moved to 5 different locations in the room will result in 5 different frequency response measurements. IF (big if) you have good sounding speakers, then it is OK to limit the fixing of peaks and (shallow) dips to below transition, since you are legitimately removing unwanted audible colourations that the room is adding to the sound.

Above this range, it is still worth using EQ to gently shape the frequency response (like a mild tone control) so that you end up with the same timbre from all speakers, allowing sounds to remain consistent as they pan around the room. Those that limit correction to below the transition range can miss out on that speaker-to-speaker consistency.
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post #9817 of 9825 Old 04-25-2020, 06:28 AM
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Forgive me if I'm using the wrong terminology here but, do you think the screen can cause reflections/reverberations from the sound being blocked/not making it through the screen. I know that some speaker makers say their speakers are better with the grill covers off.

Speaker grills are typically much closer and squarely mounted on the speakers.

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post #9818 of 9825 Old 04-25-2020, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by WOKNROX View Post
Forgive me if I'm using the wrong terminology here but, do you think the screen can cause reflections/reverberations from the sound being blocked/not making it through the screen. I know that some speaker makers say their speakers are better with the grill covers off.

Speaker grills are typically much closer and squarely mounted on the speakers.
The purist in the days of stereo almost always took off the cloth screens from their speakers, although it may have been next to impossible to detect whether or not the screens were in place via AB testing. Theaters are set up with speakers and sub's behind their screens. So there maybe a trade off, but what else can one do with a projection screen, if one wants to hide the speakers?
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post #9819 of 9825 Old 04-28-2020, 02:45 PM
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Pearl Jam Streaming in Atmos

If anyone here has an Apple TV 4K, I recommend checking out the new Pearl Jam "Gigaton" Visual Album Experience streaming through the end of the week. It's the full album, but with accompanying visuals (somewhere between a music video and a screen saver). Mastered in Dolby Atmos and Dolby Vision!

If you don't have an ATV4K you can also watch/listen on any MacBook, albeit only in stereo. Or, a newer iPhone, with the Atmos mix delivered over headphones.

AVS Forum thread here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/112-s...lby-atmos.html
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post #9820 of 9825 Old 04-29-2020, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by dschulz View Post
If anyone here has an Apple TV 4K, I recommend checking out the new Pearl Jam "Gigaton" Visual Album Experience streaming through the end of the week. It's the full album, but with accompanying visuals (somewhere between a music video and a screen saver). Mastered in Dolby Atmos and Dolby Vision!

If you don't have an ATV4K you can also watch/listen on any MacBook, albeit only in stereo. Or, a newer iPhone, with the Atmos mix delivered over headphones.

AVS Forum thread here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/112-s...lby-atmos.html

Thanks for the heads up on this! I just listened to it and while I wish there was more use of the height speakers they did sound really good when they were used. Hopefully we get more music releases in Atmos! I enjoyed this music video/movie/screensaver too.


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post #9821 of 9825 Old 05-03-2020, 01:15 PM
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I have 4 Ficar 18" IB18 V1 subwoofers that have never been used.

pm me if interested.



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post #9822 of 9825 Old 05-04-2020, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post
Here's an example of a curved baffle wall from Nyal:


It is detailed further in this AVS thread.

If the magic of a good stereo involves room reflections off the front and side walls, there's little chance of achieving it in a theater. I see many enthusiasts with dedicated spaces for each purposes.
I just found this old Anthony Grimani white paper, which alleviates many of my concerns. Also featuring a curved baffle wall!

http://www.pmiltd.com/published%20ar...ed%20Again.pdf
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post #9823 of 9825 Old 05-11-2020, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by dschulz View Post
If anyone here has an Apple TV 4K, I recommend checking out the new Pearl Jam "Gigaton" Visual Album Experience streaming through the end of the week. It's the full album, but with accompanying visuals (somewhere between a music video and a screen saver). Mastered in Dolby Atmos and Dolby Vision!

If you don't have an ATV4K you can also watch/listen on any MacBook, albeit only in stereo. Or, a newer iPhone, with the Atmos mix delivered over headphones.

AVS Forum thread here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/112-s...lby-atmos.html

I heard about that, but too late. I have an iPhone and a new pair of headphones that are still in the box. Would have been interesting.


Did you experience it? If so, what are your thoughts?
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post #9824 of 9825 Old 05-11-2020, 05:42 PM
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I heard about that, but too late. I have an iPhone and a new pair of headphones that are still in the box. Would have been interesting.


Did you experience it? If so, what are your thoughts?
I greatly enjoyed the record, and the work that went into the accompanying video. Definitely a worthwhile way to spend an hour if you're a Pearl Jam fan.

As for the Atmos mix, I wish I could have experienced it in a proper Atmos home theatre (I have not yet upgraded, my own rig is 5.1). I watched the whole thing on my old MacBook pro, which does not support Atmos, and then the first 20 minutes or so again on my iPhone which does. The virtualized Atmos was pretty cool, although not mind-blowing.

I've always been frustrated by surround music's persistent failure to launch - quad, the DTS music label for 5.1 music, DVD-Audio in 5.1, Pure Audio Blu Ray, Auro-3D - none of it ever seems to get off the ground. My hope is that this latest Atmos music will succeed, but early efforts were only available to stream in Atmos in limited circumstances on limited devices. This Pearl Jam record was the first effort I knew of that you could stream in Atmos properly, and I hope its a sign of more to come.
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post #9825 of 9825 Old 05-12-2020, 08:12 AM
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Thank you for the response!
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