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post #4291 of 7545 Old 01-15-2015, 03:12 PM
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Welcome! And yay me for no longer being the noobiest noob!

mendezm9, I too am looking to do the front heights thing as my space doesn't allow for side surrounds anyway. Looking forward to seeing what you find.

I keep confusing my intentions with my abilities.
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post #4292 of 7545 Old 01-15-2015, 06:16 PM
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Curious if anyone here uses REW? I would like to use it so I can dial in my speakers but am a bit overwhelmed with just how technical it is to learn beyond doing basic sweeps. My umc 200 has an 11 band peq for the l/c/r and right/left surround channels. The sub is already eq'd so I don't need that.



I would love to hear about other people's experiences with REW.
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post #4293 of 7545 Old 01-15-2015, 06:20 PM
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Have you read the REW quick start thread? Basically steps you through the process. If I was able to figure it out, I am sure you can.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-aud...et-graphs.html

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post #4294 of 7545 Old 01-15-2015, 06:35 PM
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Hello Everyone. I've been lurking for awhile trying to figure out things for my dedicated HT build. We are building a new home next year. I want to have enough figured out so the plan doesn't get compromised. I am also reading up on whole home audio. Sounds like the perfect time to run wires etc.

I am definately subscribed. Looking forward to learning from all of you. I am definately interested in seeing, hearing and what I gather also feeling some local setups.

First question is how do you best control the major time consumption of this site? Good stuff
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post #4295 of 7545 Old 01-15-2015, 06:51 PM
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Welcome!

Answer to your first question, I waste a LOT of time at work on this site.
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I keep confusing my intentions with my abilities.
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post #4296 of 7545 Old 01-15-2015, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by JAMN4IA View Post
Hello Everyone. I've been lurking for awhile trying to figure out things for my dedicated HT build. We are building a new home next year. I want to have enough figured out so the plan doesn't get compromised. I am also reading up on whole home audio. Sounds like the perfect time to run wires etc.

I am definately subscribed. Looking forward to learning from all of you. I am definately interested in seeing, hearing and what I gather also feeling some local setups.

First question is how do you best control the major time consumption of this site? Good stuff
Plenty of people right in this thread that have built rooms of all types. So I am sure most questions could be answered right here. But another great way to get questions answered as you move through the build process is to start a build thread... even if you haven't broken ground on the house. If you share the area of the state you are located there may be a few theaters you can tour, get ideas from, and members you can ask questions within a few miles.

Whole home audio has really changed over the years. Running wires is still an option, but you also have amazing wireless options like Sonos and Apple AirPlay. You may be surprised at the number of people who have wireless Sonos throughout a home instead of a wired system. Cuts down on wiring and needed to plan things out. It also puts the volume and media selection at your finger tips (phone, iPod, iPad, laptop...) instead of mounted in a wall. Ton's of options, they all have pros and cons.
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post #4297 of 7545 Old 01-15-2015, 08:55 PM
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Welcome!

Answer to your first question, I waste a LOT of time at work on this site.
I think we can all agree it's not time wasted. But I know what you mean.
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post #4298 of 7545 Old 01-16-2015, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Draden1 View Post
Curious if anyone here uses REW? I would like to use it so I can dial in my speakers but am a bit overwhelmed with just how technical it is to learn beyond doing basic sweeps. My umc 200 has an 11 band peq for the l/c/r and right/left surround channels. The sub is already eq'd so I don't need that.



I would love to hear about other people's experiences with REW.
I also have the UMC-200, and I bought a UMIK-1, but I only have Macs and have had issues getting everything to work as it should.

I love my iPhone, but it will never replace my turntable. I've never seen Titanic OR XXXXXXXXX. Alexa is a stripper name.

The Cinema 1858 Remodel Thread
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post #4299 of 7545 Old 01-16-2015, 07:32 AM
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I was in the same boat as Thrillcat with REW and Mac products. I ended up buying a CHEAP PC laptop. Stunk having to make that purchase but there were so many small programs that I really wanted to run that were not available on Apple products. Cutsheet (used to find the best way to get all cabinet panels cut from a single 4x8 sheet), WinISD (used to design cabinet sizes for drivers), REW (EQ'ing a room)....

The Other Theater (most recent build)
Old Woods Remodel
Old Wood Theater (first build)
Marantz 8805 (Emotiva RMC in a box) | JVC X790R | Emotiva XPA-5 | Emotiva XPA 4-3s | Oppo 203 | DIYSG 1099 | DIYSG Volt 8 | DIYSG Volt 6 | SVS PC-4000 | Seymour UF 132"

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post #4300 of 7545 Old 01-16-2015, 07:35 AM
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I was in the same boat as Thrillcat with REW and Mac products. I ended up buying a CHEAP PC laptop. Stunk having to make that purchase but there were so many small programs that I really wanted to run that were not available on Apple products. Cutsheet (used to find the best way to get all cabinet panels cut from a single 4x8 sheet), WinISD used to design cabinet sizes for drivers, REW for EQ'ing a room....
I need to do that, too so I can run BMW diagnostic & coding software. Just haven't gotten around to it.
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I love my iPhone, but it will never replace my turntable. I've never seen Titanic OR XXXXXXXXX. Alexa is a stripper name.

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post #4301 of 7545 Old 01-16-2015, 07:55 AM
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I need to do that, too so I can run BMW diagnostic & coding software. Just haven't gotten around to it.
I have all of that up and running on my Windows 7 laptop if you need any help with it. It's annoying to configure correctly.
Of course, I keep spending my BMW money on audio equipment...lol.

I keep confusing my intentions with my abilities.
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post #4302 of 7545 Old 01-16-2015, 08:00 AM
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I have all of that up and running on my Windows 7 laptop if you need any help with it. It's annoying to configure correctly.
Of course, I keep spending my BMW money on audio equipment...lol.
Haha, and I've been spending my theater money on BMW repairs!

Thanks for the offer!

I love my iPhone, but it will never replace my turntable. I've never seen Titanic OR XXXXXXXXX. Alexa is a stripper name.

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post #4303 of 7545 Old 01-16-2015, 08:32 AM
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Welcome Draden1 and mendezm9! Always nice to meet other folks in the area with this disea... er hobby. Very curious to hear your Triads Draden1 should you be so kind to offer up a demo at some point. Not had the opportunity to hear those. I'm using an Emotiva XPA-3 for my front 3 channels and have been very pleased with it's performance.

Interesting we have another non-projector owner. mendezm9 we will convert you.

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post #4304 of 7545 Old 01-16-2015, 08:35 AM
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Welcome mendezm9 and JAMN4IA! Looking forward to future build threads and crawls with so many potential new venues to mix with the old, er, classic ones.

Audio: Marantz AV7702mkII / Marantz MM8077 / Emotiva UPA-7 for 7.2.4 Atmos/DTS:X
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post #4305 of 7545 Old 01-16-2015, 08:43 PM
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Welcome Draden1 and mendezm9! Always nice to meet other folks in the area with this disea... er hobby. Very curious to hear your Triads Draden1 should you be so kind to offer up a demo at some point. Not had the opportunity to hear those. I'm using an Emotiva XPA-3 for my front 3 channels and have been very pleased with it's performance.

Interesting we have another non-projector owner. mendezm9 we will convert you.
Sure, follow up with me in a month or so as I just ordered some more Triads to complete my setup. I currently have silver lcr's for the front and can't wait to install the new one's as surrounds.
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post #4306 of 7545 Old 01-18-2015, 07:16 AM
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Well my buddy who got the Andrew Jones pioneers recently is looking for a projector now. So we went to audio labs and AVL yesterday. While there I decided to get some ears on new speakers.

When we first walked into audio labs we went to the big room and got a demo of Dolby atmos. I was pretty impressed, will definitely have to have that capability after I move. There were some really big paradigm speakers in there that we both agreed had way to piercing highs. Pretty much hated those $5000 speakers.

Went to the back room and listened to paradigm monitor 7, 9, studio 60 and some monitor audios. In almost every song we both enjoyed the paradigms better. The cheaper paradigms have a different tweeter than the monster ones and we enjoyed them very much. I thought the monitor 7 and 9 sounded great. Then he plugged in the studio 60. Wow, I was blown away. Those are some amazing speakers.

At AVL they really only had the b&w cm 600 series and pioneer elites for prices I would be looking at. Didn't hear the pioneers. The b&w were really really good. I wish there was a way to here those and the paradigms together to see which is truly better.

As for speakers, I might be heading east next weekend. Hawkeye audio in cedar falls is a goldenears dealer. I am incredibly interested in hearing those. I have a buddy that lives south of Iowa city, he has a benq w1070, so going to take this friend from here to go check it out while were out that way.

Anyways, interesting stuff. Commercial companies makes some amazing stuff.
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post #4307 of 7545 Old 01-18-2015, 07:28 AM
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I was up at Hawkeye yesterday. Yes, they are a GoldenEar dealer, as well as Paradigm. He has the Triton 1 and believe the Triton 7's on display right now. I know he has been selling a lot recently. He's been unable to keep some stuff in stock and customers are buying the demo gear so they don't have to wait.

Depending on what your friend is looking for from a projector, they have an Epson model that is pretty good for the value at just over $1200. I know the JVC RS-4910 he had on display was sold, some speakers, a sub.... It's a good problem to have, but he is running out of gear to demo because people are buying it up before he can restock his inventory. So if there is something in particular you want to hear, you may want to give Kent a call and make sure he still has one. Heck, even as I left yesterday a guy had just shown up from Iowa City to look at the Triton 1's. So who knows if those are even still there.

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post #4308 of 7545 Old 01-18-2015, 07:30 AM
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Haha well good for him. I'm looking at triton 3s, 5s when they come out, or 7s. Not sure exactly which ones.

AVL here in DSM had an Epson 3020 for $1100 with 200hrs on the bulb. Pretty decent deal. My buddy is looking to buy a house so probably won't get the PJ until he moves. He has no room in his duplex for it now.
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post #4309 of 7545 Old 01-18-2015, 08:17 AM
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@slarity I have heard the Paradigm Monitors and Studios side by side with the Monitor Audios and the B&W CM series and previous generation 600 series.

My personal preference sort of depends on the price range (the Monitors are a closer competition with the 600s while the Studios, the CMs).
In the Studio vs CM battle, I would go with the Studios all day every day. Just something slightly piercing about the CM's tweeter.
In the Monitors vs the 600 series, the 600 win in my book.

While I like Monitor Audio aesthetically, they just do nothing for me acoustically.

Of course, I still haven't heard anything (for dual music and HT duty and not involving selling a major body organ) that makes me want to give up my Polk LSis just yet. Hehe.

Would be interested in hearing your thoughts on the Goden Ears as I have never had a chance to compare them with the others.

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post #4310 of 7545 Old 01-19-2015, 08:40 AM
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@slarity I have heard the Paradigm Monitors and Studios side by side with the Monitor Audios and the B&W CM series and previous generation 600 series.

My personal preference sort of depends on the price range (the Monitors are a closer competition with the 600s while the Studios, the CMs).
In the Studio vs CM battle, I would go with the Studios all day every day. Just something slightly piercing about the CM's tweeter.
In the Monitors vs the 600 series, the 600 win in my book.

While I like Monitor Audio aesthetically, they just do nothing for me acoustically.

Of course, I still haven't heard anything (for dual music and HT duty and not involving selling a major body organ) that makes me want to give up my Polk LSis just yet. Hehe.

Would be interested in hearing your thoughts on the Goden Ears as I have never had a chance to compare them with the others.
That's odd. My personal experience is that B&W is more laid back in the highs and that seems be the general consensus from everything I've read. Everyone hears a little differently and has different preferences, but piercing is not an adjective I hear in concert with the B&W's. Smooth, laid back and warm are usually what people attribute to them. Could be the room or equipment I suppose (or just people hearing things differently). One of the reasons I went with the CM's over the Studios was because the highs were much more forward on the Paradigms. Not shrill, but certainly leaning more towards the harsher end. That and the midrange on the CM's was better defined. The Studios were my runner ups though. Both are excellent. There's really no wrong opinion on speakers. If you're ever able to have a listen to my CM's I'd be interested if you can hear harshness there.

As I said in another post, I wasn't wowed by the Golden Ears. They seemed somewhat lifeless and rolled off in the high end. Not a bad speaker certainly. But they would not be for me.


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post #4311 of 7545 Old 01-19-2015, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by slarity View Post
Well my buddy who got the Andrew Jones pioneers recently is looking for a projector now. So we went to audio labs and AVL yesterday. While there I decided to get some ears on new speakers.

When we first walked into audio labs we went to the big room and got a demo of Dolby atmos. I was pretty impressed, will definitely have to have that capability after I move. There were some really big paradigm speakers in there that we both agreed had way to piercing highs. Pretty much hated those $5000 speakers.

Went to the back room and listened to paradigm monitor 7, 9, studio 60 and some monitor audios. In almost every song we both enjoyed the paradigms better. The cheaper paradigms have a different tweeter than the monster ones and we enjoyed them very much. I thought the monitor 7 and 9 sounded great. Then he plugged in the studio 60. Wow, I was blown away. Those are some amazing speakers.

At AVL they really only had the b&w cm 600 series and pioneer elites for prices I would be looking at. Didn't hear the pioneers. The b&w were really really good. I wish there was a way to here those and the paradigms together to see which is truly better.

As for speakers, I might be heading east next weekend. Hawkeye audio in cedar falls is a goldenears dealer. I am incredibly interested in hearing those. I have a buddy that lives south of Iowa city, he has a benq w1070, so going to take this friend from here to go check it out while were out that way.

Anyways, interesting stuff. Commercial companies makes some amazing stuff.
The best advice I can give you on trying to evaluate speakers that aren't side by side is to make notes on what you're hearing that you like. I took my own music and selected passages that I've heard a million times. I tried finding things that stressed different parts of the speaker. A cymbal that you're able to hear fall off on can tell you things about the highs. I also had a passage from one of the DIY speaker meets that featured triangles and was a good yardstick on highs. Male vocals and instruments like a stand up bass can tell you a lot about the midrange and lower extension. Once you zero in on passages like that and go back and forth a few times, you'll start to pickup on differences and how you like them.

If you like multichannel audio for more than the latest action blockbuster, then how the speakers integrate as a whole set is really important. That was another area where the speakers I choose did better than the immediate competition. The soundstage front to rear and side to side was very transparent. But that's something that you may or may not put a lot of value in.

I had a feeling you would dig the Paradigms. They are really good speakers and do justice to about any material you throw at them.

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post #4312 of 7545 Old 01-19-2015, 09:12 AM
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That's odd. My personal experience is that B&W is more laid back in the highs and that seems be the general consensus from everything I've read. Everyone hears a little differently and has different preferences, but piercing is not an adjective I hear in concert with the B&W's. Smooth, laid back and warm are usually what people attribute to them. Could be the room or equipment I suppose (or just people hearing things differently). One of the reasons I went with the CM's over the Studios was because the highs were much more forward on the Paradigms. Not shrill, but certainly leaning more towards the harsher end. That and the midrange on the CM's was better defined. The Studios were my runner ups though. Both are excellent. There's really no wrong opinion on speakers. If you're ever able to have a listen to my CM's I'd be interested to hear if you if can hear harshness there.

As I said in another post, I wasn't wowed by the Golden Ears. They seemed somewhat lifeless and rolled off in the high end. Not a bad speaker certainly. But they would not be for me.
I would like to say it was just me but even my wife who thinks everything sounds the same agreed with me. Although, her exact words were "They sound sort of 'bitter' to me."

I will readily admit that I am sort of biased towards most hard dome tweeters or metalized tweeters. But I don't think this was the case.
But the great thing about this hobby and this industry is that there are options to please everyone. And I won't begrudge anyone for liking something that I don't.
Bear in mind that the speakers I have had the longest have a radial ring tweeter which tend to be almost notoriously warm sounding so it may just be that I have grown so accustomed to that warm top end that anything else sounds overly *insert some other sound signature here*.

Either way, I think that virtually anything can be made to sound decent if it has been correctly matched with the other gear. And none of my observations were to the point of they sounded bad...just different. You also have to bear in mind that I have some outrageously sensitive ears. When I was going through MEPS before I joined the Army, the Navy doctor who administered my hearing test noted several times that my hearing went "significantly" higher on the high end than the average person and then promptly tried to convince me to give up the Army and become a Naval Sonar tech. LOL.

I keep confusing my intentions with my abilities.
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post #4313 of 7545 Old 01-19-2015, 09:34 AM
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I would like to say it was just me but even my wife who thinks everything sounds the same agreed with me. Although, her exact words were "They sound sort of 'bitter' to me."

I will readily admit that I am sort of biased towards most hard dome tweeters or metalized tweeters. But I don't think this was the case.
But the great thing about this hobby and this industry is that there are options to please everyone. And I won't begrudge anyone for liking something that I don't.
Bear in mind that the speakers I have had the longest have a radial ring tweeter which tend to be almost notoriously warm sounding so it may just be that I have grown so accustomed to that warm top end that anything else sounds overly *insert some other sound signature here*.

Either way, I think that virtually anything can be made to sound decent if it has been correctly matched with the other gear. And none of my observations were to the point of they sounded bad...just different. You also have to bear in mind that I have some outrageously sensitive ears. When I was going through MEPS before I joined the Army, the Navy doctor who administered my hearing test noted several times that my hearing went "significantly" higher on the high end than the average person and then promptly tried to convince me to give up the Army and become a Naval Sonar tech. LOL.
Even though I have hit an *ahem* older age bracket my hearing up top is still good. I can hear 10k -15k sweep tests still. Your opinion may not change a bit hearing the B&W's in a different setting and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm just very surprised to hear that conclusion as it's the first I've heard of those speakers described that way (if anything they're usually criticized for not being forward enough). So I'm naturally curious as to whether there is another factor involved or just plain preference/differences in hearing.

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post #4314 of 7545 Old 01-19-2015, 02:49 PM
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Don't get me wrong...I am not saying my hearing is better or worse than anyone elses...just different.

It could have been the environment but it was in a room with some solid (read quality) treatments. Next to The Savoy, probably the most "black" listening room I have been in.

I keep confusing my intentions with my abilities.
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post #4315 of 7545 Old 01-20-2015, 04:55 AM
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That's odd. My personal experience is that B&W is more laid back in the highs and that seems be the general consensus from everything I've read. Everyone hears a little differently and has different preferences, but piercing is not an adjective I hear in concert with the B&W's. Smooth, laid back and warm are usually what people attribute to them.

As I said in another post, I wasn't wowed by the Golden Ears. They seemed somewhat lifeless and rolled off in the high end. Not a bad speaker certainly. But they would not be for me.
This is almost exactly my opinion on the B&Ws. They were very nice but I thought the highs in the Paradigms were much brighter and detailed. The biggest thing I liked about the B&Ws was the imaging. Listening to just 2 speakers it really sounded like the music was coming from the center.

Nathan at AVL also let us demo the B&W 800s as well. I would say for $24k a pair of speakers they were obviously incredibly nice. Music sounded so real, like you were in a 1on1 concert with the artist.

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The best advice I can give you on trying to evaluate speakers that aren't side by side is to make notes on what you're hearing that you like. I took my own music and selected passages that I've heard a million times. I tried finding things that stressed different parts of the speaker.

If you like multichannel audio for more than the latest action blockbuster, then how the speakers integrate as a whole set is really important. That was another area where the speakers I choose did better than the immediate competition. The soundstage front to rear and side to side was very transparent. But that's something that you may or may not put a lot of value in.

I had a feeling you would dig the Paradigms. They are really good speakers and do justice to about any material you throw at them.
I really enjoyed the paradigms. Well the cheaper monitor series up to the Studio 60s. With the top end Paradigms I heard, the tweeter was too pronounced and piercing. I really didn't like the sound at all. But at $1300 a speaker the Studio 60s were very impressive.

I wouldn't mind bringing Bryce over and checking out yours again sometime if possible. It seems I've learned a lot about speakers recently and there are details that I've never noticed before. We listened to that song One by Metallica at audio labs, the same one Beck played on his system. The biggest detail I can hear is the strumming of the guitar. Actually sounds like his fingers are running up and down the strings. I tried the Metallica BD again on my infinity system, and those details just are not there. Going to try it again on Bryce's pioneers just to see if its there.

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I would like to say it was just me but even my wife who thinks everything sounds the same agreed with me. Although, her exact words were "They sound sort of 'bitter' to me."

I will readily admit that I am sort of biased towards most hard dome tweeters or metalized tweeters. But I don't think this was the case.
But the great thing about this hobby and this industry is that there are options to please everyone. And I won't begrudge anyone for liking something that I don't.
Bear in mind that the speakers I have had the longest have a radial ring tweeter which tend to be almost notoriously warm sounding so it may just be that I have grown so accustomed to that warm top end that anything else sounds overly *insert some other sound signature here*.

Either way, I think that virtually anything can be made to sound decent if it has been correctly matched with the other gear. And none of my observations were to the point of they sounded bad...just different.
I was pretty much the same way until recently. As noted above I've started picking out details from speakers that I just simply can't hear from other speakers.

I'm still not disappointed with my Infinity's even after hearing some absolutely amazing speakers. I've had them for almost 12 years, on 3 different AVRs, and will soon have a new and hopefully bigger theater room with a bigger budget to work with. So it's about time to say goodbye to the Infinitys.

I found a house that was seriously almost perfect this weekend. Only two real problems with it. 1: I'm not ready to move yet, I'm waiting for the weather to get nicer to finish up some things on my house before we can sell our current house. 2: It was extremely far west in Urbandale. Like to the point it would be quiet a drive for me to get to work. It was quiet an amazing house though. The basement was unfinished, but I had a great vision of it being finished. It would have had a nice play room for the kids right when you got down the stairs, have a 5th bedroom with egress window, the theater room was nice and large (guessing 16x26 or so with a really high ceiling where the screen would be), and a bathroom off the theater.
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post #4316 of 7545 Old 01-20-2015, 07:59 AM
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Great to see others in Iowa with the same interest as me. Just enjoying my latest upgrade which is my new Sony VPL-HW40ES, spending lots of time in my theater testing out different movies. Should be working but the avsforum was calling.
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post #4317 of 7545 Old 01-20-2015, 11:03 AM
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Don't get me wrong...I am not saying my hearing is better or worse than anyone elses...just different.

It could have been the environment but it was in a room with some solid (read quality) treatments. Next to The Savoy, probably the most "black" listening room I have been in.
Don't worry, I wasn't trying to compare anyone's hearing. I just know people that have lost a lot of sensitivity up top and was just saying luckily I haven't (yet). You may well hear better. It's certainly not something I can do anything about either way.

I'm honestly just curious if you hear that in my setup if you ever have the chance to stop by. If you do, I will of course be burning the speakers immediately and quitting this hobby for good

Seriously though, it's always fun to talk about this stuff. And I would never be offended if what I like isn't what someone else does. That's just silly, especially in regards to speakers.

P.S. DO NOT discuss my hearing acuity with my wife. That path leads only to pain.
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post #4318 of 7545 Old 01-20-2015, 11:06 AM
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Great to see others in Iowa with the same interest as me. Just enjoying my latest upgrade which is my new Sony VPL-HW40ES, spending lots of time in my theater testing out different movies. Should be working but the avsforum was calling.
Welcome to the group!!!

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post #4319 of 7545 Old 01-20-2015, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by slarity View Post
I really enjoyed the paradigms. Well the cheaper monitor series up to the Studio 60s. With the top end Paradigms I heard, the tweeter was too pronounced and piercing. I really didn't like the sound at all. But at $1300 a speaker the Studio 60s were very impressive.

I wouldn't mind bringing Bryce over and checking out yours again sometime if possible. It seems I've learned a lot about speakers recently and there are details that I've never noticed before. We listened to that song One by Metallica at audio labs, the same one Beck played on his system. The biggest detail I can hear is the strumming of the guitar. Actually sounds like his fingers are running up and down the strings. I tried the Metallica BD again on my infinity system, and those details just are not there. Going to try it again on Bryce's pioneers just to see if its there.
You guys are certainly welcome to visit. And bring along the Metallica disc for comparison if you like. The wife has been on a Metallica kick lately so she'll be fine with that blasting away downstairs.

My own observations when I compared the B&W CM's with the Paradigm Studios was that both had the same detail in the highs, but presented it very differently. I have not listened to the new B&W 600 S2's, but I did some comparison with the previous 600's and there was definitely less detail in the high end (vs. either the Studios or CMs). The midrange was also not as defined. The 600 S2's supposedly improved the high end quite a bit.

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post #4320 of 7545 Old 01-20-2015, 11:33 AM
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Great to see others in Iowa with the same interest as me. Just enjoying my latest upgrade which is my new Sony VPL-HW40ES, spending lots of time in my theater testing out different movies. Should be working but the avsforum was calling.
Because Good is Dumb...

Nice projector! I've really liked the 55ES's I've been able to view. I'm guessing their sibling is pretty darn nice as well. Did you pick that up locally? I know Traviss isn't really into the Sony lineup anymore.

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