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post #7201 of 7545 Old 12-05-2018, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by thrillcat View Post
I’ve been fighting this crusade since 2005, and I finally convinced my buddy Tom and one of his colleagues to help out.

https://twitter.com/tomcruise/status...757616128?s=21


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I am also in this camp, for the most part I cannot stand the interpolation features.

My whole hearted thanks for getting Tom on board!
Now if we can just get Joel to fix this on his projector =P
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post #7202 of 7545 Old 12-05-2018, 05:31 PM
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!
Now if we can just get Joel to fix this on his projector =P

The first step is admitting you have a problem.



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post #7203 of 7545 Old 12-06-2018, 04:44 AM
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@deewan


I just saw the picture of your room on the EMO forums... fantastic looking to say the least.


Im trying to build out something similar, and was wondering who did you have choose all the colors/materials....


I have no fashion sense and would like some advice/recommendations.


Additionally I was wondering ... are you using front wides? If so how is the upmixing to them?
Is it true that you cannot apply any upmixing that will spread the front/side surround bed channels to the front wides or are the front wides playing object only?


Thanks!

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post #7204 of 7545 Old 12-06-2018, 04:49 AM
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Joel - I read your comments on your new bluray players tone mapping and had a question.


Are you using the HDR custom gamma curve all the time and then the tone mapping on top of it?
Or are you using the SDR calibrated settings with tone mapping for HDR content?
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post #7205 of 7545 Old 12-06-2018, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by theblackangus View Post
@deewan


I just saw the picture of your room on the EMO forums... fantastic looking to say the least.


Im trying to build out something similar, and was wondering who did you have choose all the colors/materials....


I have no fashion sense and would like some advice/recommendations.


Additionally I was wondering ... are you using front wides? If so how is the upmixing to them?
Is it true that you cannot apply any upmixing that will spread the front/side surround bed channels to the front wides or are the front wides playing object only?


Thanks!
Thanks for the compliments. There are more pictures and even a video in my build thread (hyperlink in my signature).

I designed the room completely myself. I used CAD to get a sense of the room and make sure my sight lines, door placement, projector throw and speaker placements would work. For colors, textures, lighting and materials I also made all those decisions. I enjoy interior design. If you have questions I'd be happy to help, but design is normally personal preference so always keep in mind what I like you may not.

I'll try to address your wide channel questions in a bit. The answer is lengthy and I need to run off to a meeting.

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post #7206 of 7545 Old 12-06-2018, 11:22 AM
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Too funny! I’m the guy that has turned off this feature on as many friends/families sets as I can. The strange (to me) thing is that most of them say they can’t tell a difference.
Holy crap, so much this! I'm amazed at the people that say they can't see it!

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post #7207 of 7545 Old 12-06-2018, 11:27 AM
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The first step is admitting you have a problem.



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You'll be pleased to know I religiously cycle this on/off when changing modes just to make sure it isn't on. And I still don't think it was on during the John Wick 2 demo as I usually spot it quickly (you never know though, low mode on the JVC is fairly subtle).

P.S. My wife would send explosives to your house if she knew you were the reason that I now do this. But I have omitted this information so she can focus her hate on me where it belongs


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post #7208 of 7545 Old 12-06-2018, 11:27 AM
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Holy crap, so much this! I'm amazed at the people that say they can't see it!
Remember all the people who say they can't hear a difference between white van speakers and high end speakers. I have a friend with a dedicated room who stated he couldn't hear the difference between his in-wall Bic of America 2-way speakers without a backer box compared to my 3-way tower speakers with ribbon tweeters. Some people just don't care or want to see/hear a difference.

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post #7209 of 7545 Old 12-06-2018, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by theblackangus View Post
Joel - I read your comments on your new bluray players tone mapping and had a question.


Are you using the HDR custom gamma curve all the time and then the tone mapping on top of it?
Or are you using the SDR calibrated settings with tone mapping for HDR content?
No, I'm using the non-curve calibrated gamma with the UB820. I still have a preset that has the custom curve to use if I want to. But my main presets aren't using it since going to the Panny.

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post #7210 of 7545 Old 12-06-2018, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by deewan View Post
Remember all the people who say they can't hear a difference between white van speakers and high end speakers. I have a friend with a dedicated room who stated he couldn't hear the difference between his in-wall Bic of America 2-way speakers without a backer box compared to my 3-way tower speakers with ribbon tweeters. Some people just don't care or want to see/hear a difference.


Ummm.. wow

That would be like flooring a Prius and a McLaren and saying "well that's pretty much the same"

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post #7211 of 7545 Old 12-06-2018, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by jeahrens View Post
You'll be pleased to know I religiously cycle this on/off when changing modes just to make sure it isn't on. And I still don't think it was on during the John Wick 2 demo as I usually spot it quickly (you never know though, low mode on the JVC is fairly subtle).



P.S. My wife would send explosives to your house if she knew you were the reason that I now do this. But I have omitted this information so she can focus her hate on me where it belongs


I think it was Blade Runner, wasn’t it? Either way, my condolences.


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post #7212 of 7545 Old 12-06-2018, 01:04 PM
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I think it was Blade Runner, wasn’t it? Either way, my condolences.


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Meh we're in this TO THE DEATH. It's just a question of who can outlast the other

I thought it was the Wick demo. We did watch Blade Runner as well. So could be either.

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post #7213 of 7545 Old 12-06-2018, 01:11 PM
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Meh we're in this TO THE DEATH. It's just a question of who can outlast the other



I thought it was the Wick demo. We did watch Blade Runner as well. So could be either.


I’m pretty sure I first noticed it on an aerial nighttime skyline shot.


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post #7214 of 7545 Old 12-06-2018, 01:53 PM
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I’m pretty sure I first noticed it on an aerial nighttime skyline shot.


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See and I thought that was the opening night time building shot from Wick 2. And my mind is still sharp as a tack, so I'm obviously right. And don't tell me different Terrence!
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post #7215 of 7545 Old 12-06-2018, 04:51 PM
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Who’s Terrence?

I keep confusing my intentions with my abilities.
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post #7216 of 7545 Old 12-06-2018, 04:57 PM
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Meh we're in this TO THE DEATH. It's just a question of who can outlast the other

I thought it was the Wick demo. We did watch Blade Runner as well. So could be either.

Which did we watch 1st, it was the very 1st thing we watched that it was noticed.
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post #7217 of 7545 Old 12-06-2018, 05:00 PM
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Holy crap, so much this! I'm amazed at the people that say they can't see it!

Im amazed at people who say they cannot live w/o it.
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post #7218 of 7545 Old 12-07-2018, 08:20 AM
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Which did we watch 1st, it was the very 1st thing we watched that it was noticed.
Wasn't that your copy of Magic Mike you brought over? I think you mentioned wanting to see how a projector with actual contrast made Tatum's pecs stand out. Then Travis had to use the restroom.

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post #7219 of 7545 Old 12-07-2018, 04:10 PM
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Wasn't that your copy of Magic Mike you brought over? I think you mentioned wanting to see how a projector with actual contrast made Tatum's pecs stand out. Then Travis had to use the restroom.

Oh yeah... then I followed Travis to the bathroom... Damn he was in there a while.... You're right. =(

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post #7220 of 7545 Old 12-07-2018, 06:09 PM
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Oh yeah... then I followed Travis to the bathroom... Damn he was in there a while.... Your right. =(


*You’re


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post #7221 of 7545 Old 12-07-2018, 07:04 PM
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*You’re


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Really? =P


After a comment like that, all I get is a grammar correction?

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post #7222 of 7545 Old 12-07-2018, 07:16 PM
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So I was listening to some music tonight and messing with my mini-dsp which I have setup on my L/R for a high pass filter.
At first I was futzing around with my bass curve and then I start looking through the interface more and playing with some other stuff.

Completely by accident I stumbled across something pretty astounding to me.
I am running only two channels atm, with only the L/R hooked up so there is no chance of any sound from anything else.

If I invert the polarity on 1 speaker the sound field become very pronounced stereo, like the sound is really coming from all around me as long as I am at MLP.
The high end sounds more crisp, but I loose some pretty significant mid-bass.
When I say all around, I mean the sound stage pulls forward, is much more airy, and instrument/vocal positioning is much more apparent and spread out.
However this also shows playing about 6 db quieter on my spl meter.

Without the single polarity inverted speaker (how I normally run) the stereo field collapses to sounding like most of the sound is coming from around where my center channel is located.
This creates more mid-bass, and the bass/mid-bass seems a bit more clear, but at the cost of the higher frequency clarity.
The sound positioning is much more condensed and the sound stage pulls forward to sound like its centered on the screen and not my my MLP.

Anyone have any idea why this is or what is happening?

At the moment I'm feeling like the configuration with where on of the speakers is polarity inverted is better for music listening but Im not quite sure. (Haven't tried this while watching a movie yet)

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post #7223 of 7545 Old 12-08-2018, 05:56 AM
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If I invert the polarity on 1 speaker the sound field become very pronounced stereo, like the sound is really coming from all around me as long as I am at MLP.
The high end sounds more crisp, but I loose some pretty significant mid-bass.
When I say all around, I mean the sound stage pulls forward, is much more airy, and instrument/vocal positioning is much more apparent and spread out.
However this also shows playing about 6 db quieter on my spl meter.

Without the single polarity inverted speaker (how I normally run) the stereo field collapses to sounding like most of the sound is coming from around where my center channel is located. This creates more mid-bass, and the bass/mid-bass seems a bit more clear, but at the cost of the higher frequency clarity. The sound positioning is much more condensed and the sound stage pulls forward to sound like its centered on the screen and not my my MLP.

Anyone have any idea why this is or what is happening?

At the moment I'm feeling like the configuration with where on of the speakers is polarity inverted is better for music listening but Im not quite sure. (Haven't tried this while watching a movie yet)
Interesting, are vocals clear (sound like they should) or does everything sound it’s drenched in reverb? Either way, I’d say trust your ears, listen whichever way you enjoy more. You are describing what stereo should sound like, it being centered between the 2 speakers.

As for why it’s happening, the music gods want you to pull your hair out giving you another thing to have to mess with!
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post #7224 of 7545 Old 12-08-2018, 06:04 AM
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Interesting, are vocals clear (sound like they should) or does everything sound it’s drenched in reverb? Either way, I’d say trust your ears, listen whichever way you enjoy more. You are describing what stereo should sound like, it being centered between the 2 speakers.

As for why it’s happening, the music gods want you to pull your hair out giving you another thing to have to mess with!

With a single speaker polarity inverted the vocals sound a bit more clear to me, but neither sound abnormal... just more spread out with the single polarity inverted speaker. For both sound is "Centered" but, for instance, on The XX Crystalized - there is male and female vocalist singing in turn.

In my "standard" config - they both sound like they are singing from close to center, however with the single polarity reversed they sound like they are singing from left or right significantly more, which is actually how it sounded long ago (before I had to have my AVR repaired) and how I have heard it sound on other systems as well.


I may have to go through all my cabling... over time I have moved stuff I wonder if some how something is actually wired in reverse.
As I get closer to my treatments being finalized Im re-wiring everything anyway.


Im kind of thinking that since I lose about 6db with the single polarity reversed speaker and some noticeable mid bass reduction that I have the speakers wired correctly as I have read that adding a second speaker will result in a 6db volume increase, and Im reading the bass reduction as phase cancellation from having the reversed polarity, but I do like how much more airy and spread the sound stage is.

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post #7225 of 7545 Old 12-08-2018, 10:25 AM
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Im kind of thinking that since I lose about 6db with the single polarity reversed speaker and some noticeable mid bass reduction that I have the speakers wired correctly as I have read that adding a second speaker will result in a 6db volume increase, and Im reading the bass reduction as phase cancellation from having the reversed polarity, but I do like how much more airy and spread the sound stage is.
Yep, that's exactly right. If you have a mic and REW, you can look at the impulse response graphs to verify the polarity of the speakers. I use this video when setting up speakers and the offstage left and offstage right audio plays around with phase to produce a similar effect to what you're describing by inverting the polarity. And a gnit pick, it's +3db for doubling speakers/subs while maintaining the same power and +3db for doubling power. So the +6db comes from adding a second speaker AND giving it the same amount of power as the first, not just sharing power. I feel that's a bad explanation so scenario: 1 speaker on 1 amp channel getting 100w. Adding a second speaker to that same channel so that each speaker sees 50w gives you +3db. But if you added that second speaker to a second amp channel so that each one gets 100w, you get +6db.



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post #7226 of 7545 Old 12-08-2018, 03:40 PM
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And a gnit pick, it's +3db for doubling speakers/subs while maintaining the same power and +3db for doubling power. So the +6db comes from adding a second speaker AND giving it the same amount of power as the first, not just sharing power.

Yeah that was my understanding, I just wasn't going to deep dive into the super detail =)
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post #7227 of 7545 Old 12-22-2018, 04:52 PM
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Just want to wish all of my fellow Iowa based AV Nerds a very Merry Christmas and wishes on a Happy and Prosperous New Year!

To those who do not celebrate the Christian holiday, to you, I wish you a Happy Hanukkah, Joyous Kwanzaa, Blessed Yule, and Happy Festivus!!!
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post #7228 of 7545 Old 12-23-2018, 06:53 AM
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Just want to wish all of my fellow Iowa based AV Nerds a very Merry Christmas and wishes on a Happy and Prosperous New Year!

To those who do not celebrate the Christian holiday, to you, I wish you a Happy Hanukkah, Joyous Kwanzaa, Blessed Yule, and Happy Festivus!!!

And to you as well my friend!
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post #7229 of 7545 Old 12-23-2018, 02:11 PM
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Thanks ZLTFUL! Celebrating Festivus today! The pole is out, feats of strength and the airing of grievances tonight!
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post #7230 of 7545 Old 12-31-2018, 06:00 AM
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I had an interesting experience over the holidays.
A buddy of mine brought over his DJ gear and we listened to some music.
My Flacs via his mixing board sounded considerably better than my AVR, I had never A/B'ed DAC's before.


So what DAC's are you guys using in your gear?
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