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post #7591 of 7601 Old 12-03-2019, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by FireDust58 View Post
How many of you guys have experience going from a receiver to a pre/pro and external amp? Been reading about how "big of a difference" it makes, but am looking for someone with real experience that's actually taken the time to setup their system(s). Was it worth it? Does it matter the size of room and listening levels, or is there a benefit at all levels?
I went from a Marantz AVR 7011 to just adding an external amp with the same AVR using its pre-outs for the front three (emotiva xpa 3) since the front 3 get the most sound and are more likely to be further away from you than the other speakers. Did it make a difference for me? At lower volumes, no. At higher volumes a bit but not "huge" like i've heard others mention. Basically it sounded clearer at louder volumes than when using the AVR amp.

Will it make a difference to you? That depends on your room, your speakers, and how far away they are from you.

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post #7592 of 7601 Old 12-03-2019, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techtvman View Post
I went from a Marantz AVR 7011 to just adding an external amp with the same AVR using its pre-outs for the front three (emotiva xpa 3) since the front 3 get the most sound and are more likely to be further away from you than the other speakers. Did it make a difference for me? At lower volumes, no. At higher volumes a bit but not "huge" like i've heard others mention. Basically it sounded clearer at louder volumes than when using the AVR amp.

Will it make a difference to you? That depends on your room, your speakers, and how far away they are from you.



Thanks for the responses. My thought was to continue to use my current amp - Earlier this year I bought the Denon AVR-X4500h which has pre-amp outputs. Then, more recently, I purchased Polk LSiM 7.0 speaker set (702, 703, and 706 towers). I've really been impressed with the speakers over the previous set that I had . I've been read many suggestions around having a dedicated amp for these speakers (and in general) and having the speakers really come alive.



My room is pretty short, so I sit rather close to the front speakers. I can tell the speakers start to come alive as I play them louder, but it's usually louder than my listening preference when at this distance. I was hoping the dedicated amp would help them come alive sooner at the lower volume levels since I sit so close - and it sounds like maybe not.
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post #7593 of 7601 Old 12-03-2019, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDust58 View Post
My room is pretty short, so I sit rather close to the front speakers. I can tell the speakers start to come alive as I play them louder, but it's usually louder than my listening preference when at this distance. I was hoping the dedicated amp would help them come alive sooner at the lower volume levels since I sit so close - and it sounds like maybe not.
If the speakers aren’t doing it for you until you have the volume louder than you’d like, why not try different speakers? That’s not to say the Polks sound bad but the 703 and 706 are 88db sensitive. This means your receiver may not have enough juice to really get them going, which leads to turning the volume louder than you prefer.

If you are absolutely set on keeping the receiver, higher sensitivity speakers may be a better match for what you’re wanting. The below statements are in generalities, YMMV.

Lower sensitivity speakers with low to mid volume = uninspired, dull sound
Higher sensitivity speakers with low to mid volume = livelier, punchier sound
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post #7594 of 7601 Old 12-04-2019, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FireDust58 View Post
Thanks for the responses. My thought was to continue to use my current amp - Earlier this year I bought the Denon AVR-X4500h which has pre-amp outputs. Then, more recently, I purchased Polk LSiM 7.0 speaker set (702, 703, and 706 towers). I've really been impressed with the speakers over the previous set that I had . I've been read many suggestions around having a dedicated amp for these speakers (and in general) and having the speakers really come alive.



My room is pretty short, so I sit rather close to the front speakers. I can tell the speakers start to come alive as I play them louder, but it's usually louder than my listening preference when at this distance. I was hoping the dedicated amp would help them come alive sooner at the lower volume levels since I sit so close - and it sounds like maybe not.

Also there are a few stores around town that will let you demo some amps in your home. So you could get a demo amp and take it home for a while and see if you find value.


My 2c was that the switch to a dedicated amp with sensitive speakers gave me a small to medium bit of extra clarity, separation, and dynamics. I wouldn't likely go back for my main music system.


Also for what its worth I heard the polks on some good cambridge stuff and they were very good.
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post #7595 of 7601 Old 12-04-2019, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Draden1 View Post
If the speakers aren’t doing it for you until you have the volume louder than you’d like, why not try different speakers? That’s not to say the Polks sound bad but the 703 and 706 are 88db sensitive. This means your receiver may not have enough juice to really get them going, which leads to turning the volume louder than you prefer.

If you are absolutely set on keeping the receiver, higher sensitivity speakers may be a better match for what you’re wanting. The below statements are in generalities, YMMV.

Lower sensitivity speakers with low to mid volume = uninspired, dull sound
Higher sensitivity speakers with low to mid volume = livelier, punchier sound
In general, I agree. FWIW that sensitivity is similar to the B&W's I'm using. With 200w going to the front 3 and 125w going to the back 4 I don't find that low to mid volume is dull. So the speaker/setup can still buck a general trend. Now I've not listened to this setup on a receiver, so it may indeed sound less engaging with less power behind it.

Another generality I find is that high sensitivity speakers tend to get harsh and shrill at high volumes. Obviously there's no hard rule here.

One thing I will say is that when I moved the front 3 speakers to the 3x200w amp that male vocals seemed to benefit. Anyone who's listened to me blab about music knows I'm a Pink Floyd fan. I did a crude A/B test with a 24/96 2ch David Gilmour DVD when swapping the amps. Even with a ~-4dB deficit the 200w amp picked up more of the huskiness and gravelly nuance of the vocals. Which I'm theorizing is that the extra oomph is able to more delicately manipulate the stiff kevlar midrange. Which could be completely wrong too. But the difference was there and I honestly wasn't expecting any since the 125w amp was no slouch.

I'd definitely do what Black Cow says and demo an amp at home. That's really where the rubber meets the road.

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post #7596 of 7601 Old 12-04-2019, 01:47 PM
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So I have some personal experience with the speakers you are using.

(702s are the bi-pole surrounds, the 703s are the bookshelf speakers and the 706 is the larger of their 2 centers...towers are the 705s which I have and the 707s. The second center is the 704).

Anyway, the 705s sound "fine" on receiver level power. But they will really open up with good, high current amplifier power. Remember, not all watts are the same. And almost all AVRs lose a considerable amount of power as you add speakers. You have one shared power supply that not only has to provide power to your amplifier boards but also has to handle the processing portion as well.
Going from 2 to 5 speakers, most AVRs will be down 50% or more power from their 1 or 2 channels driven rating you see in their spec sheets.

Even off-loading the front mains or even all 3 fronts will gain you a considerable amount of amplifier overhead. Your transients will be smoother and cleaner and the internal amps won't run out of gas so quickly when all they have to do is provide power to surrounds.

I have a Marantz AVR and a Marantz pre/pro with external amps that I would happily A/B for you to show you the difference even on high efficiency speakers (my theater's JTR Triple 8s).

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post #7597 of 7601 Old 12-04-2019, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ZLTFUL View Post
So I have some personal experience with the speakers you are using.

(702s are the bi-pole surrounds, the 703s are the bookshelf speakers and the 706 is the larger of their 2 centers...towers are the 705s which I have and the 707s. The second center is the 704).

Anyway, the 705s sound "fine" on receiver level power. But they will really open up with good, high current amplifier power. Remember, not all watts are the same. And almost all AVRs lose a considerable amount of power as you add speakers. You have one shared power supply that not only has to provide power to your amplifier boards but also has to handle the processing portion as well.
Going from 2 to 5 speakers, most AVRs will be down 50% or more power from their 1 or 2 channels driven rating you see in their spec sheets.

Even off-loading the front mains or even all 3 fronts will gain you a considerable amount of amplifier overhead. Your transients will be smoother and cleaner and the internal amps won't run out of gas so quickly when all they have to do is provide power to surrounds.

I have a Marantz AVR and a Marantz pre/pro with external amps that I would happily A/B for you to show you the difference even on high efficiency speakers (my theater's JTR Triple 8s).
I would like one to test the AVR preouts on the external amp vs using the pre/pro with the external amp.

7.1.4 system:
JVC NX7 / 120" Seymour Screen | Marantz SR7011 | Emotiva XPA 3 Gen 3 | Nvidia Shield | OPPO BDP 203 UHD | Tivo Roamio OTA | Roomie Remote | 4x B&W 600 series surrounds | 4x Definitive Technology AW 6500 Atmos | B&W 700 Series Front LCR | Rythmik FV15 | Insteon Automation | Philips Hue accent lighting
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post #7598 of 7601 Old 12-04-2019, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ZLTFUL View Post
So I have some personal experience with the speakers you are using.

(702s are the bi-pole surrounds, the 703s are the bookshelf speakers and the 706 is the larger of their 2 centers...towers are the 705s which I have and the 707s. The second center is the 704).



Oops you are correct. The 707 are the towers I picked up!


707 x2
706 x1
703 x2
702 x2
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post #7599 of 7601 Old Yesterday, 06:57 AM
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Hey All!
What is the HDMI brands you all are using for 2.0 connections?
I need to get a 35-40' cable to replace my old monoprice HDMI 1.4 cable (or at least I feel like I should)=)
I have used mono-price and blue jeans in the past with good success.


Thanks for the input.
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post #7600 of 7601 Old Yesterday, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by theblackangus View Post
Hey All!
What is the HDMI brands you all are using for 2.0 connections?
I need to get a 35-40' cable to replace my old monoprice HDMI 1.4 cable (or at least I feel like I should)=)
I have used mono-price and blue jeans in the past with good success.


Thanks for the input.


Have you tested your current cable?

I had a pre-2.0 monoprice cable sitting around when I was remodeling last, and decided to run it through the wall/ceiling as a backup before putting in the drywall.

When I got my 4K projector last year, the main cable I had been using didn’t work, so I ordered a new one. But because the backup old Monoprice was so fat, I wasn’t able to pull anything new through, or even pull it out. So just for the hell of it I connected it and tried, and I’ve never had a single issue with it.

The cable itself was originally bought in probably 2015 or earlier.


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post #7601 of 7601 Old Today, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theblackangus View Post
Hey All!
What is the HDMI brands you all are using for 2.0 connections?
I need to get a 35-40' cable to replace my old monoprice HDMI 1.4 cable (or at least I feel like I should)=)
I have used mono-price and blue jeans in the past with good success.


Thanks for the input.
I had some Swell hdmi cables there were all working great, but I decided to swap them out of fiber cables. I took a chance on these from Amazon and they have been great.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...2?ie=UTF8&th=1

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