Hitachi 51swx20b Manual Convergence - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 25 Old 08-15-2002, 09:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I picked up my 51swx20b the other day and have noticed the images of up-close shots, specifically faces, seem to be a little grainy. I have used the "magic focus" two times but I am sure I would be able to get it dialed in better with the manual convergence. The only problem is I have no idea what I'm doing. When I get to the grid I have 2 different rectangles, red and blue. My question is am I trying to get these 2 rectanges to line up on top of each other? Ummm, I think I just figured it out LOLOL. WOW is this going to take a while!!!! I sure hope its worth it.

Does any one know if there is any freeware out there I can load on my laptop and hook up to the Digital RGB Input (DVI w/HDCP) Interface to assist with manual convergence?

Also will I degrade my video by using the progressive scan in my DVD player, panasonic DVD-RP62, at the same time using the 1080i setting on the tv?
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post #2 of 25 Old 08-16-2002, 07:31 AM
 
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The trick is to line up the "RED" and the "BLUE" on top of the green to make the line "WHITE"

Since CRT rear projection tv's only have three CRT's (RED, GREEN, BLUE) they make all other colors by mixing them together.

If all three CRT are not aligned perfectly you'll get ghosting and loss of picture resolution.

Let the Set warm up for atleast 20 minutes, use the digital auto MAGIC FOCUS feature to get it in line before you manually converge.

Then, line up and adjust each color where you see red or blue sticking out to create a perfect white grid.

I know it takes some time, but the results are worth it.

I would start in the very center and work your way out in a clock wise rotation.

EXAMPLE: From the center, move on to the right, then down, then left, then left again, then left again, then up, then up again, then right, then right again, then right again, then right again, then down... ECT...

Somtimes it's best to fix the real problem ereas first, then start in the middle and work out in clockwise rotation for the fine adjustments. Make sure you hit exit on the remote when done and hit the right Key for "DONE" Don't reset it, or hit "cancel" or you'll have to do it all again.

ALso, after a manual convergence don't use the magic focus feature again unless you notice a significant drifting or problem develop over time.

Just be glad your 20B model has a manual adjustment in the user menu, or else I would be typing hear all day telling you how to do it via the service menu, where you can really mess things up.

Good luck, Instant message me for some more help.. MIKE
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post #3 of 25 Old 08-16-2002, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
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REALLY!!!! I don't know if that is good or not. Magic focus ended up getting all the lines white, there are no colors at all peaking around at all !! All white. If that is the case I must have another problem. Like maybe I am sitting to close to the set (7'). Or maybe I'm just too picky. I'm looking for that glass picture.
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post #4 of 25 Old 08-16-2002, 07:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by wsm0911
REALLY!!!! I don't know if that is good or not. Magic focus ended up getting all the lines white, there are no colors at all peaking around at all !! All white. If that is the case I must have another problem. Like maybe I am sitting to close to the set (7'). Or maybe I'm just too picky. I'm looking for that glass picture.
WOW-

That goes to show ya that perhaps the magic focus 8feature really does work.

It is unusual for people to report as you did, usually there is stand out problems and bleeding of red and blue with most projections out of the box.

This years sony's seem to need some major work, one today was unwatchable and the manual convergence system on the new sony's are a joke compared to the manual mode in the Hitachi's

I had to do the PJE (display, 5 volume+, power) in the service menu to get it acceptable. Not great, just acceptable. In defense of the sony though, I might have gotten a bad one, cause the Box was pretty mashed up too...Focus was off too...
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post #5 of 25 Old 08-19-2002, 06:48 PM
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Hi Mike,

Seems you're the Hitachi expert here so I'm adddressing this to you if you don't mind? :)

First of all, I'm a newcomer to Hitachis. Quite frankly, I've been known to proudly (and loudly) proclaim my Sony and Pioneer bias and have never considered Hitachis in the past. Don't know why, just never even thought about them. Then, a little while ago I read somewhere that Hitachi supplies most (60% I think) of the CRTs for all RPTVs. Well obviously that peeked my interest. And then I read a bunch of posts on this and other forums extolling the wondrous virtues of this year's product line. Well, I guess it took a bit of doing but I can now safely say that Hitachi has finally caught my attention. I just have to take a look now (I'm in the market for a new 57" model) and I hope to do so over the coming weekend.

But a post above brings up a question. The person asked about hooking up a computer to the DVI input of these machines and I've read in the user's manual (which I just downloaded) that this is not allowed -- or at the very least, not supported. Do you have any knowledge/experience about this? Why couldn't you hook up a HTPC if it's a standard DVI input?

TIA.
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post #6 of 25 Old 08-20-2002, 05:52 AM
 
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Nope-

I use an interalced DVD player:p

I also read that it had to be the DVI spec input with copy protection and flag circuitry. The idea of DVI is to allow uncompressed full quality digital picture to be transmitted for the best possible PQ, yet, not allow people to go nut copying and pirateing copy protected programs and software.

don't think it will work:(
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post #7 of 25 Old 08-20-2002, 06:12 AM
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Tia, If everyone follows the rules this will be true of all HDTVs with a DVI connection. Our "friends" at the MPAA made sure that this was part of the standard. Just thought I'd make your day a little brighter:mad:

Ken
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post #8 of 25 Old 08-20-2002, 06:47 AM
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Thanks Mike, thanks Ken.

(By the way Ken, TIA = Thanks In Advance, it's not my name. :) )

I realize that the dastardly evil folk at the MPAA don't want me to copy the DVI signal. But how does connecting a computer to the DVI port facilitate this? It's a one way trip to the TV. I'm sure I've read that other TVs support computer connections to the DVI/HDCP port (specifically the new Samsung DLP). If they can do it, why can't Hitachi?

TIA. :p
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post #9 of 25 Old 08-20-2002, 09:02 AM
 
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I have not tryed it, so who knows?

you could always get a VGA to component video adapter and set the output to 540P or 1080i with the computer resolution. That should work fine.

try this:

http://www.rca.com/product/viewdetai...45063,00.html?

Good luck
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post #10 of 25 Old 08-20-2002, 01:08 PM
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Hmmm.....I was just assuming that if it had a DVI input I would be able to use my comp (with DVI out) with this TV. I would be a little bit disgruntled if this wasnt the case :|
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post #11 of 25 Old 08-21-2002, 02:49 PM
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Noone with any of these sets have a pc they can give a try? Not a deal breaker for me but definately a bummer if it wont work.
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post #12 of 25 Old 08-29-2002, 09:23 AM
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i'm about to buy the 51swx20b, for dual use for computer. unless they wont let me return it if it won't work w/ the computer. new video card on order w/ dvi out. worst case, i'd go w/ maybe the jvc's, they have been confirmed to work w/ comp thru dvi.
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post #13 of 25 Old 08-30-2002, 06:20 AM
 
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Cool.

We'll get a straight answer on this issue.

Think Windows XP will reckognize it?
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post #14 of 25 Old 08-30-2002, 10:30 PM
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well, you will get an answer, but i can't promise on how soon. may be a couple weeks b4 i actually pull the trigger on the purchase.

as far as XP goes, i have been using 98se since i was having alot of trouble w/ XP. just found out some issues that may have caused my problems instead of XP, so i MAY try it again when i install my new video card.

BTW, i think i'm going w/ the geforce 4 ti 4200 w/ dvi out since i will be mostly using for desktop/games instead of dvd playing.

i will definately let you all know what happens when i do get the set.

Dave
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post #15 of 25 Old 08-30-2002, 10:57 PM
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Mike, let me know when you can come over for a corona. Oh yeah, while you are here, umm, could you please manually converge my 65SWX20B. :)
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post #16 of 25 Old 09-03-2002, 07:53 PM - Thread Starter
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computer DVI out to DVI in to TV works.
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post #17 of 25 Old 09-04-2002, 09:54 AM
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great to hear. can u tell me if u used a single or dual link DVI cable? also, what video card? after much debating i decided on a geforce4 ti 4200 due to the fact that i will use it for gaming rather than dvd playback.

Dave
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post #18 of 25 Old 11-27-2002, 06:53 AM
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I have a Hitachi 51SWX20B and yes, I regularly use a PC hooked up to the DVI port to watch DVDs and TV. The trick is creating a resolution in Powerstrip that lessens the overscan. 1920 x 540, 960 x 540 are interpreted as 1080i by the television.

I play DVDs with TheaterTek software. The picture is much better than my hardware DVD player - almost no scaling artifacts.

I also discovered my old TV tuner card is supported by software called DScaler. I put the card in my HTPC and turned on an option in DScaler called non-linear stretch. It stretches a 4:3 image to 16:9 without the annoying distortion that the Hitachi introduces in 4:3 expand mode! Very nice. I keep wondering why Hitachi couldn't do the same thing in hardware - am I seeing what Toshiba owners are bragging about? In any case, it was a pleasant surprise.
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post #19 of 25 Old 11-27-2002, 07:25 AM
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hey bgrier, what video card are u using?

and can u please list your powerstrip settings?

when i was using dvi out from a geforce 4, in the 'clone' mode, the ps settings didnt seem to take affect. the computer on the tv was great, perfectly legible etc, but i had some other problems. i think part of the problem was the clone mode. the gf4 had some non related problems so i had to send it back. and i have yet to screw around more.

was considering using a transcoder also, but would prefer dvi. i'm mostly insterested in getting the desktop to fill the screen, not so much in dvd playback.

thanks
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post #20 of 25 Old 11-27-2002, 07:58 AM
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since we have two topics going on here:

1) Why does the hit manual (I have 65X) say NOT to use magic focus after manual focus? (don't know if I'll use manual, because I too can see NO color overlap in the grid after magic focus)

2) since you CAN use dvi computer input contrary to what's printed in the manual, does anyone know if computer or minidv cam will work through firewire? (manual says this won't work either, but now I wonder)

Thanks.
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post #21 of 25 Old 11-27-2002, 08:02 AM
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Right now I'm using a Radeon 7500 but my initial setup used an Nvidia GForce3 Ti500.

I had luck with the 960x540 and 1920x540 settings already configured in Powerstrip. These worked on both the Radeon and Nvidia cards although there was a bit too much overscan.

The optimum setting I found (1800x540) was suggested by someone at the TheaterTek forums (www.theatertek.com) - they have the exact timings over there. I couldn't get that res to work right on the Nvidia card though. I like this mode because there's very little overscan on the Hitachi and it's supposedly an excellent choice for scaling DVDs without losing detail or creating artifacts.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'clone mode' - I don't recall that setting on the Nvidia drivers I was using (not to say it wasn't there).
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post #22 of 25 Old 11-27-2002, 10:34 AM
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the radeon 7500 and gf3 ti500 have dvi outs? could be newer versions than mine, and since i was getting a new card, i didnt look into another gf3 (which i have now, gf3 ti200) to see if they did indeed have dvi outs.

on the gf4, there is a thing called 'nview' it allows u to watch 2 displays at once, where the 2nd display is 'cloned' from the 1st. i didnt get to play w/ it much so i cant really elaborate on it.

thanks for the other links, powerstrip kind of baffles me. i read all the stuff from karnis and mark rejhon and thought i understood it, until i actually tried to do it!
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post #23 of 25 Old 05-06-2003, 05:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by RichUF
since we have two topics going on here:

1) Why does the hit manual (I have 65X) say NOT to use magic focus after manual focus? (don't know if I'll use manual, because I too can see NO color overlap in the grid after magic focus)

Thanks.
Becuase if Magic Focus memory is flawed and you spend an hour correcting and pefecting your convergence in the manual convergence mode and then press magic focus button... all of your changes and work will be reset in less than 20 seconds... and you have to do it again.

Manual Convergence is not permanent changes..

DCAM service menu is permanent changes....the changes you make in DCAM come out when you press magic focus. Magic focus sets the convegence to what you save to the ROM after your adjustments are complete.
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post #24 of 25 Old 12-06-2003, 10:43 PM
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Question...

I did the magic focus. The picture looks good, but because I'm wondering if it can get better I did the manual convergence thing. With p-scan DVD hooked up with comp cables, moves like Matrix... the characters still look grainy. Not as sharp as I had hoped (not that I have a reference point or anything).

When I looked at the grid, everything was pretty spot on white lines. So magic focus did a good job. only in some very edge corners were blues sticking out.

is this the best it gets? can it get better? how?
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post #25 of 25 Old 12-07-2003, 07:38 AM
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Manual convergence is better. You just have to remember that you need to stay in manual mode. If you run Magic Focus, all your work in manual mode will be lost.
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