Hitachi swx20b - Adjusted Overscan and Static Focus, Now What? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 37 Old 10-12-2002, 03:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Last night I adjusted the overscan (4%) and static focus ( I think ,the little trimpots inside the TV which bring the focus in and out)... Then I performed a service level convergence.

However, now my convergence grid has a strange gap on the righthand edge of the screen. Is this normal?

See attached picture.
LL
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post #2 of 37 Old 10-12-2002, 04:16 PM - Thread Starter
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post #3 of 37 Old 10-12-2002, 09:38 PM
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That looks like "wrap around" of the convergence pattern from the left side - now visible since you reduced the overscan. You may be able to fix it with the HPOS(Horizontal Position) and/or Horizontal Blanking adjustment, if you can find them in the service menu.

It may not even be visible with actual picture information.
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post #4 of 37 Old 10-13-2002, 06:00 AM
 
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Is that the Dcam service level grid or the user grid?

Looks like the user grid.

I would check Dcam mode grid to see if you reduced overscan too much.

The SWX20B I was just playing with came with 4% stock out of the box on top and bottom and 5% on sides.

If you can't see the edge of the picture and magic focus works correctly, then I woudl say leave it alone.

Put up some test DVD grids and look at them for signs of trouble.

Me guess is that what your talking about effect the user level grid only, and nothing else. I believe the user level grid is super-imposed and not real like the Dcam grid is.
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post #5 of 37 Old 10-13-2002, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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That was a pic of the user-level grid.

In DCAM mode.. I do not see this effect.

My SWX came with about 5% top/bottom, and 6% or so on one side.

I cannot see the edge of the picture when watching movies.

I'll try some test images and try out magic focus... good to hear that the user-level grid isn't "the real thing" and can be misleading.

Thanks!
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post #6 of 37 Old 10-13-2002, 04:36 PM
 
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I think the Dcam is better way to go anyways,

the changes you make are permanent that way. ( a good thing if you know what your doing)

Who the hell wants to do it over and over again in the user mode?
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post #7 of 37 Old 10-13-2002, 05:10 PM - Thread Starter
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When i do a service level convergence..

and use "PIP MODE" & "PIP MODE" to save to ROM.
Then PIP MODE & PIP CHANNEL to initialize sensors...

Does that mean it is "Saved Permanently" ? If I was to then do a "Magic Focus", it would reset to my settings that i programmed in?

Thanks,

Steven
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post #8 of 37 Old 10-13-2002, 05:24 PM
 
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Your doing things correct.

If you do the pip mode and pip mode then the pip mode pip channel your changes become permanent with the save to ROM (pip mode X2) and the the sensore re-initialize with the the PIP mode PIP channel.

Yes, your changes are permanent short of the set drifting, settleing and normal changes.

The User menu system does not allow for as good control (thought it seems like it's better at first) and if you hit Magic focus after you do manual your changes will be changed by the magic focus system and overwritten.

Since I know that the changes I make are the best, I like how when magic focus is pressed it reverts back to my setting from the DCAM mode (which are perfect)

These digital convergence systems are a big joke for normal people because they do not work very good.

They rock for us "POWER USERS" though....

Since the magic focus system only reverts back to a custom setting from the factory, it's flawed if the factory setting is. (normally is)

If you take the time to do a good DCAM mode convergence and then save and intilize it. Even weeks later and if you ran magic focus many times, the convergence should still be dead on.

Then only tune ups from time to time are neccesarry.
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post #9 of 37 Old 10-13-2002, 05:28 PM
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Mike,

Are you sure that in the new 20B series the user convergence doesn't get saved by magic focus? I thought it did in mine. I thought the Hitachi owner's manual said it's saved. But I haven't really converged much because the set has been rock steady so far.

Les
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post #10 of 37 Old 11-27-2002, 08:04 PM
 
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Pretty sure.

When the Manual convergence via the user menu is done, it can still be changed and effected with magic focus.

I learned this the hard way, after doing a Manual on a problem set and then having to do it again after pressing the magic focus.

When you do it in the DCAM service menu level access, it sticks after you manually save the new setting into ROM and take the time to re-intialize the 8 magic focus sensors.
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post #11 of 37 Old 12-06-2002, 02:38 AM
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Mike,

In the manual of the SWX/TWX sets, it states that if you do a manual convergence you should not do a Magic Focus because it will overwrite the manual convergence.

I am not sure I understand what is meant about doing a manual convergence in the DCAM service menu and saving it into ROM and then re-intialize the 8-point Magic Focus sensors. I'm at a lost. Has that procedure been posted on this site? If it has, can you lead me to it. It seems to me that I might of read something like that some place, but right now I am having a senior moment. Thanks.
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post #12 of 37 Old 12-06-2002, 08:19 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Happyme
Mike,

In the manual of the SWX/TWX sets, it states that if you do a manual convergence you should not do a Magic Focus because it will overwrite the manual convergence.

I am not sure I understand what is meant about doing a manual convergence in the DCAM service menu and saving it into ROM and then re-intialize the 8-point Magic Focus sensors. I'm at a lost. Has that procedure been posted on this site? If it has, can you lead me to it. It seems to me that I might of read something like that some place, but right now I am having a senior moment. Thanks.
Happyme,

Yes your are correct.

In the manual for the SWX/TWX it does say that if you do magic focus auto, it will overwrite the manual mode that you have done or made changes to via fine tuning.

DCAM is the name for the Service mode convergence.

You enter DCAM by setting first in the user menu magic focus to "AUTO" mode and pressing the magic focus button on the front of the tv set under the lift up lid to start the magic focus sequence.

Once the magic focus is running....you hit magic focus button on the front of the tv again.....this gets you a quick "STOP" screen.

Quickly, before it goes away you need to hit either the "INFO" or the "STATUS" button on the remote control (R/C) to enter the DCAM mode.

DCAM is the name of the service menu convergence system.....


You can do much more with DCAM....and even adjust geometry (green color)

Here is some quick instructions on how to learn DCAM convergence:


Manual Convergence for the Hitachi
1) Receive an NTSC signal.

2) Press Magic Focus to begin magic focus

3) Press magic focus again during the magic focus process to get the ‘stop’ screen

4) While stop screen is up, press STATUS or INFO on the remote control (R/C) to bring you to DCAM mode and the service grid (64 point grid)

5) When you first get in here… I believe red is the selected color by default (it is flashing).

6) To choose other colors to converge, use the following buttons on the R/C:
a) “STATUS†- Green
b) “0†- Red
c) “ANT†– Blue

7) Start from the center of the screen and work your way out on one color at a time. I adjusted red across the whole screen to match green. Then I switched to blue, and adjusted that to green as well. After you adjust blue, you may want to go back and adjust some red again… etc. until the convergence looks good.
(a) Use 4, 6, 2, and 5 on the R/C to move the cursor position(dotted lines).
(b) Use thumb stick to move the convergence point color.
** There have been other posts in here to tape together the color filters found in the Avia DVD to help converge lines more easily. I have used this method, and it works well for adjusting to a greater detail. Basically, you put the red filter next to the green and adjust your red to the green line both horizontally, and then vertically. Then you do the same with the blue next to the green. Some people recommended you should be at normal viewing distance. I did mine from just a few feet back from the set. Maybe my eyes aren’t as good… maybe I just felt like it worked better this way. There are some other posts also recommending using binoculars. I think it’s great that people suggest things to make the process easier… but my girlfriend would think I was insane if she saw me with binoculars on the couch adjusting the convergence. I don’t know… whatever works best I guess.

8) I did not adjust the green at all. I use the green as the guide and did not adjust the location of any green point. This is highly suggested unless you have geometry problems.

9) When going along the lines and adjusting, you may run into the problem of getting an ‘S’ curve on the line. You’ll know if you get there. Basically, no matter what you do to adjust the line to be converged, the middle of the line between the points will not straighten out (it bends between the points). To fix this, the manual recommends going to the (7x5) mode which gives you less points to adjust. I had this problem, and the solution worked. There is also another mode (3x3) which gives you even less points. Basically, if the set looks good, you only fine tune it in (13x9) mode (64 point). If you have serious problems, the grids work as:
3x3 – ‘coarse’
7x5 – ‘medium’
13x9 – ‘fine’
10) To get to each of these patterns use the following on the R/C: (only if you need to)
1. (3x3) Press “STATUS†5 times (only works when DCU is in uncorrected state)
2. (7x5) Press “0†5 times
3. (13x9) Press “ANT†5 times

11) If you adjust the 3x3, then you should go to the 7x5, and then the 13x9. You get the point… depending on where you start, work your way up, and always finish on the 13x9

12) When finishing up the 13x9 mode, to get additional ‘grids’ on the edges of the screen, press the PIP CH button on the remote control while in the digital convergence adjustment mode (DCAM). Fine tune the edge convergence as necessary. To exit, press PIP CH again.

13) When convergence is acceptable, press PIP MODE to write data to ROM memory. ROM WRITE? is displayed to alarm system that ROM will be overwritten with new data. Press the PIP MODE button again to write displayed data to ROM.

14) DATA WRITE TO ROM will take approximately 4 seconds and no picture will be displayed.

15) Green dots will be displayed when operation is completed.
WARNING: YOU MUST DO THE FOLLOWING STEPS TO COMPLETE MAGIC FOCUS INITIALIZATION!!! THERE HAVE BEEN MANY POSTS THAT PEOPLE HAVE HAD PROBLEMS WITHOUT DOING THIS STEP BECAUSE THEY LOOSE MAGIC FOCUS!

16) Press MUTE to return to convergence pattern, then confirm again convergence is acceptable.

17) Press PIP MODE and then PIP CH to initialize Magic Focus. The initialize operation starts and several windows appear during this operation. It takes about 30 seconds or less.

18) When green dots appear, initialize operation is finished.
19) Turn power OFF.

21) Wait a few seconds. Turn the TV on, and you should have your normal signal. Press Magic Focus button just to make sure the magic focus still works (and that you did the last few steps properly)


Hope that helps...

There are other tricks you can learn in DCAM, like pressing the menu button eliminates the color you are not adjusting....

Good Luck-
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post #13 of 37 Old 12-06-2002, 08:33 AM
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Where do you get a manual that tells you all of this stuff? I have been looking at the Hitachi (51 & 57 inch) and am impressed with it. But I can tell it isn't good "out of the box" and would need some tweaking. Just curious where this "manual" can be had!

Thanks,

Dave

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post #14 of 37 Old 12-06-2002, 05:24 PM
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Mfusik....where do you get this information from and how do you go about getting a service manual?

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I got most of what I know surfing these boards....
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post #16 of 37 Old 12-09-2002, 08:41 AM
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Mfusick,
Thanks...that is how I am finding out as well. I still need to "fix" the convergence on my new 57swx20b and plan on using your "tutorial". In setting the convergence, would it be good to use the red, blue and green filters from avia? If so, then how?

Thanks,
Dave

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post #17 of 37 Old 12-09-2002, 09:02 AM
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David;

I ordered an SWX20B service manual from Pacific Coast Parts Distributors.
800-421-5080. $18 + $8 shipping.

http://www.pacparts.com/

I just ordered last week (SWX arrives Monday), so I haven't received it yet.


Mike;

Thanks for taking the time to write all of that out. I copied it all and will keep the printout with my manual.

John
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post #18 of 37 Old 12-09-2002, 09:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dave Vaughn
Mfusick,
Thanks...that is how I am finding out as well. I still need to "fix" the convergence on my new 57swx20b and plan on using your "tutorial". In setting the convergence, would it be good to use the red, blue and green filters from avia? If so, then how?

Thanks,
Dave
Need help?

Explain...
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post #19 of 37 Old 12-09-2002, 12:23 PM
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Mfusick,
When I look at the convergence, it looks like a big blurry white line (maybe my eyes are bad or the convergence is way off). When I am done, isn't it supposed to be a 'solid' white line without any blurriness? Do you use the red, green and blue filters to help in this?

Thanks,

Dave

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post #20 of 37 Old 12-09-2002, 08:01 PM
 
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Sounds like your focus is off.
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post #21 of 37 Old 12-09-2002, 10:56 PM
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How do you fix the focus?

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post #22 of 37 Old 12-18-2002, 08:08 AM
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Hey, Mfusick's back! :D I've had some q's for you!
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post #23 of 37 Old 12-18-2002, 08:21 AM
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Im very new at this. Can some one tell me what the service manual is for? Sorry if thats a stupid question.
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post #24 of 37 Old 12-18-2002, 08:22 AM
 
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Yes,

I moved into a new home.

No cable model yet.

after holidays....it's high on the list of many things to do.
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post #25 of 37 Old 12-18-2002, 08:24 AM
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I want to learn more about calibration. Im very new to this. Where do I start? Im sorry if this is a stupid question, but what's the service manual for?
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post #26 of 37 Old 12-18-2002, 08:36 AM
 
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For working on and understanding the set.

It's like a bible for a repair guy or calibrator, let you know how the set is designed, specs, and works.
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post #27 of 37 Old 12-19-2002, 06:57 AM
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Mfusick,

I've done the red push tweaks in the service menu and tinkered with the focus adjustments inside (both with slight nervousness, but not too bad).

Given the above, how would you rank the difficulty of service level convergence on a scale of simple/safe...moderate/use caution...difficult/I may be sorry I attempted this...for the pro's only/I could permanently screw up my $$$ set.

tia for the opinion and any further comments.

Rich
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post #28 of 37 Old 12-19-2002, 01:36 PM
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Rich,

Following your posts, I doubt you'd have any trouble with it. In fact, I find tweaking service level convergence much easier than getting into the service menu!

I've done DCOM level convergence several times now. The last two times I even ventured to successfully correct some slight geometry errors I noticed on one edges.

Yes, you do want to be careful if you are messing with anything besides red and blue (green=geometry), but other than that, its no more difficult than the user level manual mode.

Also note that AFAIK, the only benefit to doing this in the first place is to allow you to hit the Magic Focus button with confidence. If you prefer manual over Magic, then don't even bother with the DCOM.
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post #29 of 37 Old 12-19-2002, 01:57 PM
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Slammin,

Thanks. I was haning in there right with your comments until the last paragraph. My understanding is that the service level convergence (just read comment in another thread by user MichaelTLV) is more accurate than the user level manual convergence in addition to being able to save to ROM so you can continue to use magic focus over your new settings.
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post #30 of 37 Old 12-19-2002, 02:07 PM
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Well, the concept is the same as well as the procedure once you get there. I think the fact that you are able to do the convergence from several different points of reference from the DCOM actually would make it more accurate, so I stand corrected.

I only did DCOM in the 64 point mode, though I'm sure I will go back one of these days and do it again, working my way UP to the 64 point mode instead.

Btw, DISH has degraded my TV! Arghh! Fuzzy and washed out on all channels. One thing though, it is consistent between channels, they all look the same.

The variance with Dig cable swung wildly between channels, but the good ones were almost as good as DVD, and some just as good. The Bad ones with cable were much worse than anything I've seen so far with DISH.

It's only been a couple of hours though so verdict is still out.
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