Hitachi XWX Red Push in HDTV vs NTSC?? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 529 Old 11-24-2002, 11:35 PM
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Hey inaka thanks for the settings :) I got the 51swx20b on Friday and been tweaking around since. I could not find the avia disc but they would order it for me for 100.00 canadian :( So with my VE disc going I could not get the colors set right.

Using my blue filter they just wouldn't correct. But after doing your settings By the way my old settings were the same as yours.. and bingo!! the colors, I could set right now and the dvd's look even better now. I can't wait till I get my 200 hours on the guns to see how good it will become.
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post #32 of 529 Old 11-25-2002, 03:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by madden
I could not find the avia disc but they would order it for me for 100.00 canadian
Check the price at Amazon.ca .
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post #33 of 529 Old 11-25-2002, 07:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by inaka


I'm still wondering, how will we get those AVIA color test patterns to appear in 1080i? Or will we need to?

If I see red push in 1080i, will these adjustments to one mode, in this case, the (F) settings, just need to be carried over for the 1080i (G) settings?
My thoughts.

You could eyeball it on somthing like HDnet or OTA with flesh tones and get it acceptable.

or,

you could carry over the values from the others and a starting reference.

A combination of the two would probably yeild better results, and in the event your competent and wrote things down, there little risk envolved and easy enough to go back once you get the hang of things and understand them.

Or, your could try and run a signal through an HDTV set top box upconvert it to 1080i and try that....

or buy a signal generator....

or a D-VHS deck

or, rent a signal generator or and ISF tech to come and do it...

I would just eyeball it, using the previous 480i and 480P as your reference, and back tracking if you mess things up.
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post #34 of 529 Old 11-25-2002, 07:37 AM
 
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by madden
I could not find the avia disc but they would order it for me for 100.00 canadian
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...s=dvd&n=507846

or click this LINK
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post #35 of 529 Old 11-25-2002, 07:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks.

Given that the red push on HDTV seems more extreme, I am imaginig that the settings there will need to be a bit different.

There is an unknown HDTV station in my area (25-1) that has been generating a color bar pattern for over a week now in 1080i. Not perfect but perhaps I can play around with using that as a reference?
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post #36 of 529 Old 11-25-2002, 08:15 AM
 
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I'm sure your can make it "not objectionable" quite easily.

Red push fix is one of the best you can do, it alows you to use more or "full" color settings.

When you adjust for redpush by lowering the "color" you colors lose vibrancy and depth.

Fixing red push allows you to re-adjust for more and better colors.
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post #37 of 529 Old 11-25-2002, 10:21 AM
 
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A buddy and fellow co-worker bought the SWX57"

I am going to help him tweak it, and this is one place I will have to start my own learning curve once again since my Hitachi did not have any red push that needed correcting.

This thread should continue to grow and amass knowledge... I'll compile a full tweak thread when I get time.
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post #38 of 529 Old 11-25-2002, 10:26 AM
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hi, this is a very informative thread. i just got my 51GWX20B over the weekend and was wondering how to get into the service menu. There's no "INPUT" button on the remote, just individual ones for each of the 5 inputs. Does anyone know what the sequence for this unit is?

thanks
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post #39 of 529 Old 11-25-2002, 11:11 AM
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vksf01;

On the front panel of the tv, Input + Power
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post #40 of 529 Old 11-25-2002, 11:14 AM
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didn't think of looking there!

thanks!

i'll try that tonight!

vincent
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post #41 of 529 Old 11-25-2002, 11:15 AM
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I have the GWX as well, but have not yet tried to do this tweak ( I still need to get Avia ). I'll play around a bit today to see if I can get into the service menu and post my results here. If anyone else figures it out please post here for us GWX/UWX owners. :)
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post #42 of 529 Old 11-25-2002, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
hi, this is a very informative thread. i just got my 51GWX20B over the weekend and was wondering how to get into the service menu. There's no "INPUT" button on the remote, just individual ones for each of the 5 inputs. Does anyone know what the sequence for this unit is?
It's not on the remote. You have to use the "Input+Power" combo on the front of the set, not the remote. (The Input button also says "Exit" below it.) Be patient. I swear it still takes me a good 15-20 tries to get into the Service Menu.

I just thought of something which may help. Since some users have said that the red push in HDTV seems to be more extreme than other settings, that could be because the original settings in my list under the (G) settings are different than those for 480i (4) and 480p (F). Especially if you look at the "R/B-GAG" setting. My original setting shows "08" and the settings for 480i/480p are set to "0C". That's a BIG swing. As Reflex-Arc pointed out, that appears to be the setting for Saturation, so that would also explain the easily noticeable difference in red color saturation for 1080i.

Just bumping that to my revised setting of "03" could change things quite a bit. I'll know more when my HD200 arrives in a few days.

Mike, thanks for the info. I plan on eyeballing the settings in 1080i, but I have a gut feeling, carrying over the 480p settings I used to 1080i will do the trick. Especially since my revised settings seemed to have helped a user with a 51SWX20B. I'll just have to wait an see.

Great info, if anything more about these tweaks is uncovered, please let us know, thanks.
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post #43 of 529 Old 11-25-2002, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Just finished playing about in my 65xwx. Sure enough, the default settings were the same as others have reported.

I did not use Avia, I simply changed the settings to those reported by inaka. Results .... WOW! Big time improvement. I applied the same settings to the G (1080i) parameters. The diference in red push across inputs has been about 95% eliminated.

I will probably go in and tweak further with Avia. Still, I suspect the settings reported here will prove a big improvement over the factory settings for most owners of the XWX/SWX/TWX series who are experiencing red push. I also noticed that I was able to bring the overall color way up and was also able to bring brightness down afterward which should be good for preventing burn-in.

A big thanks to Mike and everyone else. Hitachi should be paying you guys.
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post #44 of 529 Old 11-25-2002, 05:03 PM
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That's GREAT news that the 1080i settings helped as well.

Just curious, did you also adjust the 480i (4) settings? If so, did you notice any changes in color in 480i material?

I haven't changed anything for the 480i settings, but if I go in can make changes for 1080i, I may do them both in one shot.

Also, you're right, I can now bump the color up to about 40% or so, and it looks great. No need to dim it down to 18% so that fleshtones look decent.

Again, great news about the 1080i settings helping across the board. That's very promising.
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post #45 of 529 Old 11-25-2002, 06:46 PM
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Ok guys.. I can't for the life of me get into the service menu. I got in last week on the first try now I can't get in at all!!

Would there be a lock out function of something. I just can't get in
Do you have to be on a certian input, anything??

HELP
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post #46 of 529 Old 11-25-2002, 07:34 PM
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OK OK I FINALLY got in. I made the adjustments on my 51SWX20B. The factory setting were also the same on this set.

One question. How do save the changes? Or do they save automatically

Thanks
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post #47 of 529 Old 11-25-2002, 10:18 PM
 
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Yes.

Enter the ISF mode...

then you'll see this:
ISF Mode Settings

RGBOUT0
SUB-BRT
G-DRV-H
G-DRV-M
G-DRV-S
R-DRV-H
R-DRV-M
R-DRV-S
R-CUT-H
R-CUT-M
R-CUT-S
G-CUT-H
G-CUT-M
G-CUT-S
B-CUT-H
B-CUT-M
B-CUT-S
SUBCNT0
COLOR-4
COLOR-F
COLOR-G
TINT-4
TINT-F
TINT-G
SHARP-4
SHARP-A
SHARP-B
SHARP-9
SHARP-E
RY-PH-4
RY-PH-F
RY-PH-G
R/B-GA4
R/B-GAF
R/B-GAG
GY-PH-4
GY-PH-F
GY-PH-G
G/B-GA4
G/B-GAF
G/B-GAG
DC-PNT0
DC-RET0
DC-LMT0
DABLPN0
DABLGA0
H-POSI
H-POSIH
H-POSID
APRTR-4
APRTR-A
APRTR-C
APRTR-E
CLT-4
CLT-A
CLT-C
CLT-E
SRT-TR4
SRT-TRA
SRT-TRC
SRT-TRE
SRT-FQ4
SRT-FQA
SRT-FQC
SRT-FQE
VSM-PH4
VSM-PHA
VSM-PHC
VSM-PHE
VSMGA4
VSMGAA
VSMGAC
VSMGAE
VSMGAM4
VSMGAMA
VSMGAMC
VSMGAME
CDE-4
CDE-A
CDE-C
CDE-E
CLPPHS0
HBPPH10
HBPPH20
DCUBRT0
DCUCNT0
OSDACL0
OSDBRT0
OSDCNT0
DCRRSW0
COLORG0
YCGA-0
BSP-0
APL/BS0
BLC-0
BDL-0
BS-ARE0
SRTGA-0
WPL-LE0
ABL-PN0
ABL-GA0
TYNCG10
DYNCG20
STATG10
STATG20
YOUTG-0
Y-DTL-0
WP-PNT0
WP-GA-0
HI-VRT0
WPS-0
BLS-0
G-STR-0
BSTRG-0
BSTRP-0
BSCHR10
BSCHR20
SCT-SW0
BBE-LO
BBE-HI
AGC
SURR
OSD-HP
OSD-VP
OSDCL12
OSDCL3
SMPLING
POLLING
START
TIMEOUT
STATUS
WAIT
REPEAT
HFRQ-N
SUBBRTH
M-CONT-H
M-CLR-H
S-CONT-H
S-CLR-H
INPUT1
INPUT2
SYNCDET
F-STD
H-STD
NOISE
DYGA
DCGA
VAPGA
VAPIN
YHCOR
HSYNC-M
VSYNC-M
CSYNC-M
HSYNC-S
VSYNC-S
CSYNC-S
M-CONT1
M-CONT3
M-CONTD
M-COR-1
M-COR-3
M-COR-D
MTINT-1
MTINT-3
MTINT-D
MTOFF00
MTOFQ-0
S-CONT2
S-CONT3
S-CONTD
S-CLR-2
S-CLR-3
S-CLR-D
STINT-2
STINT-3
STINT-D
STOFF00
STOFQ-0
Y-DL1-4
Y-DL1-D
Y-DL2-0
YBLACK4
YBLACKD
BBLACK4
BBLACKD
RBLACK4
RBLACKD
AFCRAN4
AFCRAND
F-DET4
HSEPL-4
HSEPL-5
HSEPL-6
HSEPL-C
VSEPL-4
VSEPL-5
VSEPL-6
VSEPL-C
DSEPL-A
DSEPL-C
AFCMD-L
AFCMD-3
AFCMD-D
VMODE-4
VMODE-5
48ISEP4
BANDW-4
BANDW-5
HDPOSI4
HDPOSI5
HDPOSI6
HDPOSI7
HDPOSIK

RY's R/B's -
GY's G/B's - are what you want

Do not use the AVIA color decoder check to adjust the color decoder. This screen is only meant for measuring and not for adjusting.

It appears that the (4) settings are for 480i signals the (F) for 480p signals and the (G) is for the 1080i signals.

Use the AVIA flashing color bars and with the appropriate filter. First select the blue bars and adjust the color and tint. Then select the red bars and adjust the R/Y and R/B controls. Then select the green bars and adjust the G/Y and G/B controls. Then start at the top again. After you complete the above process about 3 times you should have the chroma portion of your set nailed.

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0&pagenumber=2
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post #48 of 529 Old 11-26-2002, 04:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by inaka
Be patient. I swear it still takes me a good 15-20 tries to get into the Service Menu.
I press & hold the INPUT button and then hit the POWER button. As soon as I see the red LED power indicator light up, I let go of the INPUT button. This works almost every time for me.
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post #49 of 529 Old 11-26-2002, 07:00 AM
 
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I nail it evertime.

Just do it quick and don't think...

It' when your nervous or twitchy and don't time it correct that it does not.
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post #50 of 529 Old 11-26-2002, 07:07 AM - Thread Starter
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In terms of saving the changes.

After you scroll to the value you want for a particular setting you must push the select button on your remote to lock in that change for each setting. I did not do this at first and it reverted back to the original settings once I hit exit. Probably a good "safety feature", just one you need to be aware of.
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post #51 of 529 Old 11-26-2002, 07:11 AM
 
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Yes.

Click the joystick. No click, No save
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post #52 of 529 Old 11-26-2002, 07:56 AM
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ah, one of my questions answered, didnt know how to save the values.

i have the 57uwx, and when my dvd is in 480p, the G values affected my picture, not the F values as has been suggested. i am hooked in thru input 2, via component. i have yet to try in 480i mode to see if the other values affect that.
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post #53 of 529 Old 11-26-2002, 08:08 AM
 
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Yup.

You got to save that.

otherwise, you'll exit and turn the set off, and it will look like it did before.

No change.
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post #54 of 529 Old 11-26-2002, 08:51 AM
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Has anyone adjusted the 480i (4) mode. If so, what are the values and would this be the change to cable and Directv (NSTC stuff)?

I do not have a progressive DVD plaver, but I did make the adjustments talked about in this thread, however I do not see any difference in Cable or DirecTV mode. DirecTV is in input 3 with S-Video.

Would the changes I made to the (F) values only effect a progressive scan image of a DVD player??
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post #55 of 529 Old 11-26-2002, 09:03 AM
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ok, here's what else i noticed. when using component inputs of dvd (input 2), i used G. antenna input used 4. dvd thru composite (input 3) was also affected by 4.

dvd in 480p or 480i component (input 2) both used G, so im guessing its based on input rather than signal type alone, which i had thought was the case from the other posts, perhaps just my interpretation was incorrect.

have yet to see what F controls, for me its not component dvd like the others have used.

what inputs are ppl using for dvd when they use F for adjusting?
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post #56 of 529 Old 11-26-2002, 09:26 AM
 
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There is also gain controls for component inptuts... in the service menu. Untill I know more, I would recomend leaving them alone.

Component inputs are best for DVD....better colors and less dot crawl.

every DVD should be hooked with component video.

Hitachi has an excellent 4MB 3-Dy/c combfilter... but no comb filter is perfect.

Composite and S-video are not as good as component interconnects.
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post #57 of 529 Old 11-26-2002, 10:07 AM
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i have always used the components on dvd, but i used the composites only to adjust the F values for my antenna input.

the dvd thru the composite was pretty disgusting. the avia menus were pretty nasty.
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post #58 of 529 Old 11-26-2002, 10:31 AM
 
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they shake and edges are not clear...

Dot crawl.

Thus S-video or better component
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post #59 of 529 Old 11-26-2002, 11:05 AM
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Just got my set Saturday, calibrated it with VE, also had WAY too much red. I think I found the procedure to get into the service menu every time (after trying about 30 times unsuccessfully!). Hold the input button down, press the power button, release the input button, release the power button. I did this relatively quickly, but was able to do it several times in a row (then declared victory and moved on :) My default settings were also the same as the posted settings, so either Hitachi has very consistent quality control, or they don't worry about setting the color for each set. Anyway, I used the posted after settings, and changed all 3 inputs. Using both the component input (VID 2 w/480p) and the s-video input (VID3) the color is MUCH better (getting our HD cable box in a week or so, so no chance to check that out). DVD's looked awesome (watched Monster's Inc., colors were spectacular) and Insight Com. digital cable looked OK. I will check w/Avia when I receive it from Amazon.com, but I'm pretty satisfied! If only the stretch modes worked well. I'm getting used to 4:3 Zoom 1 however.

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post #60 of 529 Old 11-26-2002, 03:50 PM
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I'm really glad to hear that the ISF color settings seem to be helping people across the board. I also think I've mastered the pushing of the buttons to get into the Service Menu. :)

tpsully99, just curious, why are you using, 4:3 Zoom 1? I use 4:3 expanded, and it is looking better and better.

I too will be able to test out HD later this week with my HD200 (on the way), but for those that really don't like the included stretch modes with the SWX/TWX, if you use DirecTV, and you're planning on buying an external HDTV box like the Sony HD200 or Zenith 520, you can have the box do the stretching for you.

I don't have my box yet, but I'm assuming that once the HD200 is hooked up to the SWX/TWX via DVI, the SD broadcasts will look better as well. All stretching will be done in the digital domain, and thus, may appear clearer, even for SD signals. Then, you'd just leave your TV on 16:9 Standard, and be golden.
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