Hitachi 51F500 Tweaks - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 185 Old 08-22-2003, 08:44 AM
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Mfusick. will you be posting specific information on the 51s500 after you get a chance to look at it more closely?
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post #32 of 185 Old 08-26-2003, 11:26 AM
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Mfusick - thanks for all your outstanding information. I have never owned an RPTV before. I had been doing some research and saw an "open box" 43FWX20B a couple of weeks ago for a great price, but after watching it for a week I thought that something had to be wrong with the set because the picture quality was SO bad. To my "untrained eye" the analog cable was full of fuzz, digital cable had pixels and bleeding and god knows what else, and DVD's and HDTV looked way too grainy... nothing close to a "window" effect. I called CC and they sent out a technician who fiddled around with the convergence a little bit and told me "I've seen a lot of these TV's and this is just how they look. You will have to get used to it or take it back." Well, I knew he didn't know what he was talking about because I had seen a couple of far better projection TV's in people's homes before and this thing didn't even look close. I had several articles and reviews that ranked Hitachi as one of the top RPTV's so I decided to give it one more try (and go bigger!) So, I went back to the store and arranged for them to swap out the 43" for a 51F500... Lo and behold, it was delivered on Saturday and it looked just as bad as the 43"! Maybe even worse!

Over the weekend, I found this forum and started reading (and reading, and reading). It sounds like I can expect even better results when my TV gets > 100 hours, but I went to work anyhow. I adjust the contrast back to about 30%. I went into the ISF and made the "suggested" tweaks to RY-PH, R/B-GA, GY-PH, and G/B-GA. I had no idea what "red push" looked like, but I now I know after seeing the difference this made! I also adjusted the few other parameters recommended to reduce ghosting and the "green tint". Then last night I gave myself a killer headache with 90 minutes of staring at the manual convergence. I was absolutely BLOWN AWAY by the difference. I would say that I am disappointed by the CC tech's lack of knowledge, but I do not know whether they are ISF certified. I'm not sure if I will ever shell out the big bucks for ISF calibration (its not included in the CC CityAdvantage warranty is it?), but at this point I am very happy with the quality and really glad I found this forum. I went ahead and ordered the AVIA disc from Amazon to hopefully make some additional improvements.

Thanks Mfusick and all the other contributors to this thread! If you are a "newbie" like me and not a "videophile", don't be afraid - these few changes are pretty easy and will make a HUGE difference in the enjoyment of your television.
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post #33 of 185 Old 08-26-2003, 11:44 AM
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Another success story!!! You've been F'd...MikeFusick'd that is!;)

(actually, a lot of folks contributed to the wealth of tweaking info...thanks to all...thanks to Mike for archiving it all).
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post #34 of 185 Old 08-26-2003, 02:00 PM
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is there an archived tweaks thread for the S500 models? or will some of the F500 tweaks apply in the same way? i've been looking, but can't find anything clean and clear......only this thread.....do those apply to the S500 series too? i'd like to thank everyone for their help so far too. :cool:

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post #35 of 185 Old 08-26-2003, 04:17 PM
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These apply to the S for the most part, although there are some differences in the letter suffixes for the different sources and the day/night modes.
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post #36 of 185 Old 08-26-2003, 04:56 PM
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Here are the suffix meanings (i.e. R/BGA3S, R/BGAES). Some of the parameters only have the first letter of the suffix.

First Letter:
3-NTSC
D-SDTV
E-HDTV

Second Letter:
H-High Temp
M-Medium Temp
S-Standard Temp
B-Black and White Temp

Bill
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post #37 of 185 Old 08-26-2003, 07:14 PM
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thanks....that clears up a good bit. gonna look through and make some adjustments (carefully) to the ISF menu tomorrow hopefully. wish me luck.

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post #38 of 185 Old 09-06-2003, 10:02 AM
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I love this thread!!!

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post #39 of 185 Old 09-06-2003, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Love the forum...not the thread...lol
;)

J.R.

Just like women, nobody said this was going to be cheap either...
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post #40 of 185 Old 09-09-2003, 07:32 PM
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I had my 51F500 calibrated yesterday by Randy Tomlinson of Smyrna/Atlanta.

After about 100 hours of usage (and 100 hours of tweaking? heh... not quite, but it felt like it) my wife agreed that a calibration was in order as long as I would "leave the damn thing alone." Even she noticed that things were looking "too blue" and that dark scenes lacked a lot of detail, so I knew that getting the grayscale dead on was something that I had to do.

Randy spent about 3+ hours on the set and I am very pleased with the results. The grayscale was pretty close on the high end, but dropped way off on the low IRE's and he had to bring up the green a lot. I won't bother posting the settings since every set is different and I had screwed mine up a little by ignorantly touching the intensity trimpots. I think I had the convergence pretty close, but I have noticed a definite improvement from his manual/electronic focus and additional work on the convergence.

The main point I wanted to share with the forum is that he also agreed that the color decoder settings posted here (and verified by me with Avia) were pretty much dead on.

He kept RY-PH at 02, R/B-GA at 03, and G/B-GA at 04... but he did bump GY-PH back up from 01 to the factory default of 02, but I'm sure that is probably a close call and could vary from set to set or based on other conditions like lighting, etc...

He confirmed improvements by dropping the APTR (aperture) from 01 to 00 and decreasing SRTGA-0 from 10 down to 00 to reduce ghosting. However, he said that he did not see improvements changing Y-DTL-0 from 07 to 04 so he restored the factory setting of 07. I forgot to ask him to verify the "green fix", but I am pretty satisfied with my testing that it helps. I have never played with the black stretch point, maybe I will some day (when my wife isn't around).

Bottom line: it was definitely worth it to get my grayscale fixed as well as improvements in focus and convergence (he also helped balance my speaker levels for no additional charge), but this forum had pretty much has all you need for this model Hitachi color decoder! (Of course with the disclaimer that every set could have some differences.)

Some questions:
1) We both noticed that there were several black specks (dust?) visible in the lamps when he took the screen off. He said that this is no big deal and that I wouldn't notice a difference if they were cleaned. Have other Hitachi owners seen this in brand new sets and is it really no big deal?
2) There is a narrow strip of tape on the red gun which was obviously deliberately done at the factory but does not look like the pictures I have seen of lens striping. It is about 1/3 of the way out instead of on the edge. I will try to post a picture if I take the screen off at some point again. Has anyone else observed this and know why they did it? Should I just leave it there?
3) My overall geometry looks very good to the naked eye, except for the furthest edges where the last convergence lines appear *slightly* wider at the top then at the bottom. Randy's opinion was that getting a template to correct this would be a lot of work for something that I probably wouldn't even notice. I don't have a lot of experience with other RPTV's, so I'm not sure how to spot geometry problems in normal viewing. I don't notice anything now, so should I assume geometry is OK?
4) The only further improvement he suggested was doing some Duvetyne lining on the inside, particularly the "lens hood" since the lens area is wide open. There are also some unpainted edges on the plywood. I have found some of the Duvetyne threads on here but didn't see any results yet on the 51F500. Has anyone done this and seen visible improvements in black levels and reducing any "halo" effects?

Thanks to everyone for the assistance of this forum. If you are in the Atlanta-area, I definitely recommend Randy. This is my first ISF calibration, but from everything I read on this forum he helped me out a lot for the base ISF price.
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post #41 of 185 Old 09-09-2003, 08:42 PM
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1) Yes, I have noticed specs in the CRTs. Usually, I take a couple minutes to remove the top portion and clean the dust/bugs/garbage out if I notice anything in there.

2) Yes, the narrow strip of tape exist on all F500s. It looks like a poor attempt at lens striping. If I were you, I would leave it there.

3) I use a template when calibrating sets. It takes me about 75 minutes to do full geometry and convergence on the Hitachi. Do you notice distortion when the screen pans or skewed lines on DVD black bars or 4x3 gray bars. If so, I think it is worth it.

4) I have seen improvements when using Duve on the Hitachi. The CRT well is quite nasty on reflections. You should at least cover the well.

Bill
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post #42 of 185 Old 09-09-2003, 09:58 PM
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Bill - thanks again for a very helpful response.

1) What is the benefit of removing these specks? Are they negatively impacting picture quality? If I were to attempt it when I do the Duve on the CRT well, what is the best way to remove them and would I risk messing up anything else like geometry or convergence?

2) OK, I won't touch the tape. I didn't want to anyhow. :)

3) I haven't noticed any distortion with screen pans (unless of course I am in 4:3 expanded... yuck) but I will check out the black/gray bar lines to see if everything looks OK.

4) I plan to keep reading up on the different approaches to Duvetyne linings and creating "lens hoods" a little more and give it a try in the next few weeks. I will post my results. I want to make sure it is removable in case I ever need to have a Hitachi or Circuit City service call.

I just re-read this entire thread to see if there was anything else that I had missed and that I should look at again now that my set has been ISF calibrated. I saw that Mfusick or other users made modifications to these settings but couldn't find explanations of why or how to test whether there were improvements.

SUB-BRT - I have seen several Hitachi owners who have brought this down a couple notches, my ISF tech didn't touch it. I have tested it up and down a couple and it but not sure why I would change it.
SUBCNT0 15-->05 - why?
VSM-PH and VSM-GA all turned off to 00 - why?
H-SYNC turned up a couple notches?

If anyone wants to e-mail me the 51F500 service manual to "tdejong01 @ sprintpcs.com" I could probably stop asking some of these questions. :)
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post #43 of 185 Old 09-10-2003, 07:14 AM
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1) They are rarely noticable. I just remove them because it's easy and I like make sure everything is done right.


Quote:
SUB-BRT - I have seen several Hitachi owners who have brought this down a couple notches, my ISF tech didn't touch it. I have tested it up and down a couple and it but not sure why I would change it.
The only reason to adjust these values are to center your user menu controls. I will usually set contrast and brightness to 50 in the user menu and use the service menu to adjust them. Outside of that, there is no difference.

Quote:
VSM-PH and VSM-GA all turned off to 00 - why?
Setting VSM-GA to 00 will turn of Scan Velocity Modulation. However, you can turn it off in the user menu as well, so there is not benefit in doing it in the ISF menu. Neither fully disable ringing. Usually, I set VSM-GA to 03 and VSM-PH to 07 just in case I want to turn SVM on. VSM-GA controls the Scan speed. VSM-PH will alter the scan speed and the amount of ringing. 07 produces the smallest amount of ringing, but the highest scan speed for dark (a little more distortion in small lettering). You should test them yourself using the needle pulse patterm.



Quote:
H-SYNC turned up a couple notches?
I have never touched that one.

Bill
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post #44 of 185 Old 09-10-2003, 01:36 PM
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I watched a few chapters and some HD this afternoon and the colors are beautiful, I only have one visible problem that is irritating me. I'm not sure the official name for it, so I will try to describe it and include a picture. The detail is great (I can see the individual hairs on Gandalf's beard, freckles on faces, etc...) but there is something about the texture to bright objects that just doesn't seem right, especially if there is a lot of blue. The sky looks grainy/sandy, almost as though I am seeing the pixels "dancing" around instead of a solid texture. Here is a screenshot from Chicago from a scene that is very bright and blue. I haven't figured out how to take very good digital photos yet, but I'm hoping maybe Bill or someone else will get the idea of what I am describing? I've played around with all of the user level controls and could not make it go away.

I know that the blue beam is set intentionally wider than green and red, but I see so much blue on my convergence grid that I wonder if this is part of the problem? (This photo is not very good either because I took it at an angle, so you see some green which you do not see when looking straight on.)
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post #45 of 185 Old 09-10-2003, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by tdejong01
The sky looks grainy/sandy, almost as though I am seeing the pixels "dancing" around instead of a solid texture.
I've seen Edge enhancement have this effect on 480p DVD on the S500 but not on HD. Is your SVM off?

For sharpest picture, my recommendations are to focus blue (not defocus)
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...t=blue+defocus
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...t=blue+defocus
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post #46 of 185 Old 09-10-2003, 02:21 PM
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I have started a new thread for Hitachi tweak Q&A

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=300466
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post #47 of 185 Old 09-10-2003, 06:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marc Alexander
I have started a new thread for Hitachi tweak Q&A

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=300466
NICE:D
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post #48 of 185 Old 09-17-2003, 10:03 AM
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mfusick,

do you still like the swx better than the s500?
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post #49 of 185 Old 09-18-2003, 07:09 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by ntode
mfusick,

do you still like the swx better than the s500?
It's that feeling like your first real girlfreind. You remember and like better in retrospect than the other ones that come later.

Yes. (not taking away anything from the S500, I would still choose the SWX myself)
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post #50 of 185 Old 09-18-2003, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mfusick
It's that feeling like your first real girlfreind. You remember and like better in retrospect than the other ones that come later.

Yes. (not taking away anything from the S500, I would still choose the SWX myself)
I wouldn't tell your current girlfriend/wife this analogy :)
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post #51 of 185 Old 09-22-2003, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
1. Enter the Service Menu
You do this by pressing "Input/Exit" and the "Power Button" at the same time on the front of
the TV. (Not the remote.)

Hint: Hold down the "Input" button, and then press the Power button. When you do, immediately,
let go of both buttons, and the Service Menu will appear.
This doesn't seem to work on my 46F500. Is this the way to get to the service/ISF menu on the F500s too?
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post #52 of 185 Old 09-23-2003, 03:06 AM
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MadDogMike - you do this when the TV is *off*, to get into the service menu. Works on my 51G500 (AFAIK, its a F500 with slight enhancements and an anti-glare screen, are the only differences).
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post #53 of 185 Old 09-23-2003, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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It worked on my 51F500:D

(Ofcourse it took me about 20-30 tries though...:rolleyes: ) Keep trying, you'll get in there.

J.R.

Just like women, nobody said this was going to be cheap either...
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post #54 of 185 Old 09-24-2003, 06:49 AM
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I don't know how you guys do it. Holding the input/exit button, as soon as I hit the power button, the TV comes on just like normal...no service menu.
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post #55 of 185 Old 09-24-2003, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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It really isn't easy. I swear I sat there for what seemed like forever before it worked and I couldn't tell you what I did differently then any of the other times. I guess I just got the timing at just the right millisecond....lol

Keep trying, you will get in! That's an order soldier! :D

J.R.

Just like women, nobody said this was going to be cheap either...
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post #56 of 185 Old 09-24-2003, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
[i]

Setting VSM-GA to 00 will turn of Scan Velocity Modulation. However, you can turn it off in the user menu as well, so there is not benefit in doing it in the ISF menu. Neither fully disable ringing. Usually, I set VSM-GA to 03 and VSM-PH to 07 just in case I want to turn SVM on. VSM-GA controls the Scan speed. VSM-PH will alter the scan speed and the amount of ringing. 07 produces the smallest amount of ringing, but the highest scan speed for dark (a little more distortion in small lettering). You should test them yourself using the needle pulse patterm.

[/b]
I take it that the adjustable values for VSM-GA in the SWX series correspond with the menu adjustable low-med-high VSM in the menu of the F & S series sets? I've noticed that using the low setting in my friends 51S500 adds a nice degree of clarity to HDTV broadcasts and DVD, and I'd like to be able to do that with my set as well.

These threads are incredibly helpful!
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post #57 of 185 Old 09-24-2003, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by aud19
Keep trying, you will get in!
Got it. A post above said to let go of both buttons immediately once the power comes on. That didn't work for me. I had to hold them both until the menu appeared.

Now that I'm in, the problem is what to do? The link on this thread for the tweak to fix red push is for the SWX series, and is not applicable to the F500 seres, apparently. Screw it, I'll just call Randy Tomlinson. I'm going to get it ISF'ed anyway, I'm not going to take a chance on screwing it up.
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post #58 of 185 Old 09-24-2003, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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It seemed pretty darned applicable on my 51F500. It made a world of difference! The tweaks are the same fot the F500's you just have to scroll through the seemingly endless menu of options until you get to the correct one then change to the appropriate setting and check the picture with a calibration disc.

Regardless of that an ISF tech will mostly likely do a better job than even the most strident tweaker.

J.R.

Just like women, nobody said this was going to be cheap either...
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post #59 of 185 Old 09-24-2003, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by aud19
It seemed pretty darned applicable on my 51F500.
I was talking about the link to this thread: https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=184842

Where it said, "There is an easy way to compensate for red push. It involves just one simple service menu adjustment.

COLORG0 = change from 0 to 1"

I couldn't find "COLORG0" in my ISF menu.
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post #60 of 185 Old 09-24-2003, 04:23 PM
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how come I can't find any threads like this for my new mitsu 55413? :(

The money pit:
$3800 spent sofar :p
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