The Toshiba DLP (HM/HMX) Owners Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 8205 Old 09-01-2004, 06:54 PM
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Can anyone explain what the differences are between the HM and HMX models? I plan on getting one of these two models in the near future, and I found a 52HMX84 for $2996 on-line, and a 52HM84 for $3500 at BB, as well as $2700 on-line. Is the only difference in the inputs? Even the sales rep couldn't explain it, other than "It's (the HMX) just the next model higher."
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post #62 of 8205 Old 09-01-2004, 08:08 PM
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The HMX has an extra HDMI input, a different color bezel, and a better internal speaker system. Thats all that i have gathered.

2 Definitive Technology ST-L Fronts, CS-8080HD center channel, Gem XL rears, SuperCube 8000 subwoofer, Marantz SR-7008 , and Sony KDL-55w900a
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post #63 of 8205 Old 09-02-2004, 06:27 AM
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Vertical viewing has a tight range, but horizontal is pretty good.

Panny UB820, Denon X6300H in 6.1.4 mode, Epson 5040UB, SVS PCUltra paired with a MiniDSP HD and BEQ (of course!)
Working on making things blacker...
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post #64 of 8205 Old 09-02-2004, 07:49 AM
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For those of you that have the sets, if you're in a darkened room are the speakers on side very noticeable while you're watching the TV? (Do they reflect off the screen?)
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post #65 of 8205 Old 09-02-2004, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by CarlosC
For those of you that have the sets, if you're in a darkened room are the speakers on side very noticeable while you're watching the TV? (Do they reflect off the screen?)

I was not sure if it was going to be noticeable or not. But in my case, i don't see them at all.

Absolutely not a show stopper for me !
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post #66 of 8205 Old 09-02-2004, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by CarlosC
For those of you that have the sets, if you're in a darkened room are the speakers on side very noticeable while you're watching the TV? (Do they reflect off the screen?)

I don't notice the speakers at all! This is with the room lights on or off.

I _do_ notice, and dislike, the vertical gray bars for 4:3 content. Anyone found a way to change them to black? Black bars like the ones broadcast with 4:3 HD content don't bother me whatsoever.

To answer on the viewing angle: horizontal is very wide, and vertical is somewhat slim. Standing up from my couch that's 13' from the TV does produce a noticable darkening. Not a big issue for me though, as I spend 99% of watching time on the couch.

Oh and if anyone really wants to see this baby make some rainbows, check out Star Trek: First Contact. There's a scene right at the beginning with Captain Picard in a fairly dark room with a long BRIGHT WHITE vertical light right behind him (it's a pretty poorly composed scene - bad director!). Every time Picard moves, the camera moves with him and giant rainbows are produced. Even my "can't tell the difference between VHS and DVD" roommate saw the rainbows and asked "is anyone else seeing green?".
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post #67 of 8205 Old 09-02-2004, 09:06 AM
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Wow! I completely understand gray bars on the sides of 4:3 material with a CRT display, but on a DLP where burn-in is not an issue I would've thought for sure they'd make them black. Hopefully someone has a fix for this!
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post #68 of 8205 Old 09-02-2004, 10:13 AM
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i know that you can change the gray bars to black on a Toshiba CRT with the Service Menu.

So i guess we will be able to change it on the DLP too once we know how to get into the SM.

I'm not a big fan of those Gray bars either !
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post #69 of 8205 Old 09-02-2004, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheGrub
i know that you can change the gray bars to black on a Toshiba CRT with the Service Menu.

So i guess we will be able to change it on the DLP too once we know how to get into the SM.

There's partial instructions on page 3 (up to the S appearing on screen). Anyone know what to do from there?
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post #70 of 8205 Old 09-02-2004, 12:37 PM
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Well, I see the service menu code hasn't changed. (I used to do ISF calibrations). If you decide to play in this menu, do it at your own risk. My advice would be to go through and write down ALL settings first before you try changing anything.

I am still waiting for the 62HMX94 to come out, but when it does I'll want to change the gray bars to black. I trust that whoever finds it, or anything else useful, will share the wealth.
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post #71 of 8205 Old 09-02-2004, 01:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by phoenxhwk
There's partial instructions on page 3 (up to the S appearing on screen). Anyone know what to do from there?

SwampDawg78's instructions on how to get into service mode
worked for me. First thing I did was cycle thru the settings which
are displayed as one setting at a time per screen. I wrote down
the initial values from my 52hm84. The settings are about 50 terse three
or four letter mnemonics followed by hex values. Some of the mnemonics
can be guessed at and seem to be RGB drive controls of some kind. These
should be useful for anyone wanting to adjust any perceived bias. Some
have reported a "red push" I notice it a little but it doesn't bother me. Most
of the rest of the settings are totally meaningless without a service manual
which according to SwampDawg is not published yet. Later I will post
my list of mnemonics and hex values. As a firmware engineer my instincts tell
me that randomly tweaking these settings could easily render the monitor
broken. I have only been able to exit service mode by cycling power.
I think the first thing we need to establish is how to exit service mode and
under what circumstances are the changed values saved back to flash.

I give my vehement warning about tweaking with these values...that said
I will by and by try a few things on my unit and report. If others are fool
hardy enough to do same please post your results. Remember that screwing
around with service mode (and being caught) will most likely void warranty.
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post #72 of 8205 Old 09-02-2004, 01:18 PM
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I have been calling a few places around Chicago trying to find out when the 52hmx94 will be released, and also what kind of pricing one can get for it. Does anyone have definitive info on this? Much appreciated!
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post #73 of 8205 Old 09-02-2004, 05:53 PM
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Victor,

thanks for bravely volunteering to risk it all for the greater good! This weekend I will try to find my old notes from Toshibas past. Maybe they will be useful for deciphering some of the service menu codes.

With any luck we might have this thing figured out by the time I'm able to get mine.

I wonder if my old boss will let me borrow his Sencore gear for old times sake?
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post #74 of 8205 Old 09-03-2004, 08:49 AM
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Can anyone tell me if there is a way to display what signal is currently being processed by the TV ?

I play alot of xbox and would like to see if the game is 480p, 720p or 1080i ?

Thanks.
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post #75 of 8205 Old 09-04-2004, 09:24 AM
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Just wanted to give anyone who cares, an update on my HTPC delimma.

I am now using an nvidia 5700 ultra card. I am unable to correct overscan to make the display completely fit my 52hm84 (Using PowerStrip). This is completely disappointing to me, as it renders my TV useless for displaying HD content from my PC tuner. However, there is a clever utility bundled with Forceware called "NVKeystone" which will help you fit your Windows desktop onto your TV. Unfortunately it doesn't apply to full screen/overlay modes, so anything done in full screen will still be overscanned.

Any chance of overscan correction from the service menu? I guess for now I will just have to stick to my 19" Monitor for HD broadcasts. I thought DVI was supposed to FIX these ridiculous issues common to analog TV signals?

-A

PS: Thanks to everyone investigating the SM. I too don't like the grey bars and am not brave enough to mess with the settings.
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post #76 of 8205 Old 09-05-2004, 09:17 AM
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Neo42,

Don't the latest ATI drivers for ATI based video cards (not NVidia) have some built in utilities to correct for the problem you're having? You might consider returning that Nvidia for an ATI card?

CK in RRTX
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post #77 of 8205 Old 09-06-2004, 01:15 PM
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My Toshiba 52hm84 arrives tomorrow and cablevision will be bringing the HD tuner on Friday. I know that they bring the basic component cable to set up TV. Any suggestions as to HDMI cable? I went on Pacific Cable site but so many choices. Thanks.
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post #78 of 8205 Old 09-07-2004, 05:53 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by tonyunclejohnny
My Toshiba 52hm84 arrives tomorrow and cablevision will be bringing the HD tuner on Friday. I know that they bring the basic component cable to set up TV. Any suggestions as to HDMI cable? I went on Pacific Cable site but so many choices. Thanks.

I got mine from pccables.com for ~$30 delivered via ground UPS. That was the "DIGITAL DVI-D-M to PREMIUM HDMI CABLE 2M 6FT."

My cable guy left me a DVI cable, but it was unfortunately DVI-DVI, not HDMI.

An aside:
Has anyone noticed low-quality color on their sets from time to time? I see it sometimes when a camera is panning. It sort of looks like something I've seen on PCs before: such as when you try to view a picture in 16-bit color, you can see all the color gradiations. Anyone seen this yet? I've observed it over component and HDMI connections, and from both my DVD player and HD cable box. It's annoying because even the most beautiful HD picture (such as from Discovery HD Theater) looks like crap sometimes when the camera moves. Maybe I've got something set wrong?
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post #79 of 8205 Old 09-07-2004, 07:12 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by phoenxhwk

Has anyone noticed low-quality color on their sets from time to time? I see it sometimes when a camera is panning. It sort of looks like something I've seen on PCs before: such as when you try to view a picture in 16-bit color, you can see all the color gradiations. Anyone seen this yet? I've observed it over component and HDMI connections, and from both my DVD player and HD cable box. It's annoying because even the most beautiful HD picture (such as from Discovery HD Theater) looks like crap sometimes when the camera moves. Maybe I've got something set wrong?

If you are talking about the image being very "Pixelated and grainy" when the camera is panning fast, then i have seen it on SD a couple times. I was wondering if it was my eyes or the TV !

I havn't seen it with the DVD feed over components, and i was looking for it. So it's not a big deal for me.
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post #80 of 8205 Old 09-07-2004, 07:41 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by TheGrub
If you are talking about the image being very "Pixelated and grainy" when the camera is panning fast, then i have seen it on SD a couple times. I was wondering if it was my eyes or the TV !

I havn't seen it with the DVD feed over components, and i was looking for it. So it's not a big deal for me.

I've been seeing it on both DVD and HD broadcast TV over component and HDMI. But yeah, it's exactly the effect you described. I can't really think of a good way to put it. Watch Scrubs on NBC HD tonight - I saw the effect everywhere on their blue uniforms every time the camera panned. I also see it in people's faces in well-lit scenes (Scrubs again is a good example).
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post #81 of 8205 Old 09-07-2004, 11:16 AM
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How close or far do you sit away from the TV? I sit about 11 ft away from my TV, and have not noticed any of those effects. If I go really close to the TV, less than 2 feet, then I could see the pixalation occasionally. I think it has to do with the signal quality. Do you have cable or dish? I have cable, and the quality has been great. I have friends who have dish, and I think cable quality is better, because dish tends to compress the signal alot more to cause those pixalated effects.
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post #82 of 8205 Old 09-07-2004, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by Neo42
Just wanted to give anyone who cares, an update on my HTPC delimma.

I am now using an nvidia 5700 ultra card. I am unable to correct overscan to make the display completely fit my 52hm84 (Using PowerStrip). This is completely disappointing to me, as it renders my TV useless for displaying HD content from my PC tuner. However, there is a clever utility bundled with Forceware called "NVKeystone" which will help you fit your Windows desktop onto your TV. Unfortunately it doesn't apply to full screen/overlay modes, so anything done in full screen will still be overscanned.

Any chance of overscan correction from the service menu? I guess for now I will just have to stick to my 19" Monitor for HD broadcasts. I thought DVI was supposed to FIX these ridiculous issues common to analog TV signals?

-A

PS: Thanks to everyone investigating the SM. I too don't like the grey bars and am not brave enough to mess with the settings.



Did you try the Forceware 66.00 leaked Nvidia drivers I mentioned earlier
in this thread?...You dont get thease from Nvidia. They wear probably leaked
to the underground by an Nvidia employee. The leaked drivers do work
for me. The 66.00 driver version dosent include the 5700 in it's support list
(which I posted earlier in this thread) but I think it's worth a try. I have
the GeForce4 Ti 4600 with the 66.00 drivers and the overscan problem is
history. Hope this helps....

As for the settings in the SM...I will start playing with them very slowly as
most look very very cryptic and dangreous.
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post #83 of 8205 Old 09-07-2004, 11:52 AM
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im interested in buying the Toshiba 62HM94 and saw a good deal on BigBang elec. online. Does anyone know about these guys?
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post #84 of 8205 Old 09-07-2004, 11:58 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by elitelight
How close or far do you sit away from the TV? I sit about 11 ft away from my TV, and have not noticed any of those effects. If I go really close to the TV, less than 2 feet, then I could see the pixalation occasionally. I think it has to do with the signal quality. Do you have cable or dish? I have cable, and the quality has been great. I have friends who have dish, and I think cable quality is better, because dish tends to compress the signal alot more to cause those pixalated effects.

I use Dish and sit at about 12 to 13 feet from my 52HM84.

It does not happen everytime the camera is panning. But it is very visible on some scenes.

But i agree with you with the source quality. I can't see this problem when i use my LG7832/DVB318 HD DVD player.


I'll try to take a picture tonight and post it so you guys se what we are talking about.
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post #85 of 8205 Old 09-07-2004, 01:27 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by elitelight
How close or far do you sit away from the TV? I sit about 11 ft away from my TV, and have not noticed any of those effects. If I go really close to the TV, less than 2 feet, then I could see the pixalation occasionally. I think it has to do with the signal quality. Do you have cable or dish? I have cable, and the quality has been great. I have friends who have dish, and I think cable quality is better, because dish tends to compress the signal alot more to cause those pixalated effects.

I sit around 12 feet from my 53HM84 and see this often (around 5 times per half hour show). I have Comcast digital cable. My DVD player is getting up there in age, at ~2 years old - it's one of the slim silver Pannys (can't for the life of me remember the model number at the moment). If my problem is the signal from Comcast, is there anything I can do about it?
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post #86 of 8205 Old 09-07-2004, 07:23 PM
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Just thought I would add that I received my 52HM84 on Saturday (thanks TVA and Seiko) and its picture quality is superb. I watched The Last Samarai and I was blown away by the pic. Just beautiful.

As for the HTPC application, I have run component and am running it at a custom resolution of 1776 x 1000 via an ATI X800 XT Pro w/ Catalyst 4.9 and it works great via XP MCE. The desktop fits perfectly (very light underscan) and with large fonts the text is quite crisp but can run pretty small on certain websites (set your text size in IE to largest). For what it is worth, I know it is not 1:1, BUT I will say that the text/fonts look VERY sharp and are better than on my std. comp. monitor.

That being said, I tried 1280 x 720 via component and I've gotten HUGE overscan (no start bar; the left row of icons on the desktop are sliced in half). I am going to start experimenting with DVI - HDMI as I now have my tech support guru on hand to help me out . In any event, this will certainly work just fine for me as a computer monitor 'as is' at the above resolution, but I will certainly work to get the appropriate 'correct' resolution.

UPDATE -- I have set Optmization 'on' for 720p in the Displays portion of Catalyst Drive Component video edit menu. By doing so, the card 'autofit' my resolution to my screen and I basically have something akin to a 1280 x 720 resolution (the actual resolution is 1152 x 648). It works very well to fill up the screen AND I can now use 'normal' size text, instead of 'large'.

I did notice something odd, when I used the TheaterWide option on the TV to zoom in on 4:3 resolutions I noticed that the left side of the screen is titled ever so slightly (meaning I have a small triangle on the left hand side of the screen). I haven't called anyone yet on that one, but I wanted to play with different sources (everything I have tried is rolling through my HTPC right now) before I sound the alarm.

In any event, a beautiful TV that just needs a little tweaking!
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post #87 of 8205 Old 09-07-2004, 07:50 PM
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It would have to be a pre-ordet since the 94 hasn't been released yet. I'm waiyibg in a 52HM94 myself. I'll either buy locally or from OneCall or TVA.

Quote:


Originally posted by f1restarter
im interested in buying the Toshiba 62HM94 and saw a good deal on BigBang elec. online. Does anyone know about these guys?

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post #88 of 8205 Old 09-07-2004, 08:33 PM
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Quote:



Has anyone noticed low-quality color on their sets from time to time? I see it sometimes when a camera is panning. It sort of looks like something I've seen on PCs before: such as when you try to view a picture in 16-bit color, you can see all the color gradiations. Anyone seen this yet? I've observed it over component and HDMI connections, and from both my DVD player and HD cable box. It's annoying because even the most beautiful HD picture (such as from Discovery HD Theater) looks like crap sometimes when the camera moves. Maybe I've got something set wrong?

I would call what I see pixelation more than low-quality color. I think it is definitely a feed problem. I saw this nearly every time movement occurred during the Olympics in HD and see it often on PBS HD, but I've never noticed it on many other channels, such as HBO HD. I sit about 8 feet from the set.

I also get some audio/video sync problems probably about 1/4 of the time. Anyone else?

And what is a good DVD player to use with the set? My old non-progressive Sony isn't getting the job done.
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post #89 of 8205 Old 09-07-2004, 08:37 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by nickindc03
I would call what I see pixelation more than low-quality color. I think it is definitely a feed problem. I saw this nearly every time movement occurred during the Olympics in HD and see it often on PBS HD, but I've never noticed it on many other channels, such as HBO HD. I sit about 8 feet from the set.

I also get some audio/video sync problems probably about 1/4 of the time. Anyone else?

And what is a good DVD player to use with the set? My old non-progressive Sony isn't getting the job done.

1- I'm seeing it on SD channels too and not only HD Channels... i tried to take a picture... but could not do it... i will try again tomorow.

2- I'm using a LG7832 (Canadian clone of the Zenith DVB318) that upconverts DVD's to 720p or 1080i. It does a amazing job on this TV.

Check out my review on my 52HM84 in the thread called "My 52HM84 has arrived". There are some pictures attached.
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post #90 of 8205 Old 09-08-2004, 06:24 AM
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This is just a jpeg file played on my DVD player using component cables. I do not have hd feed nor connection to my PC yet. Even with DVD resolution, I am stunned at the PQ. I can't wait to see HD and get my computer hooked up!
LL
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