Samsung 71' 1080P DLP HL-S7178W (owners) - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 1724 Old 07-29-2006, 07:41 AM
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Saw the set again yesterday, and played a round with it, resetting the picture to some of what I remembered were Eliab's suggested settings (which improved the picture of the ESPN HD feed immensely).

It was probably just the size, but the picture seemed to lack the crispness of the 6186 it was positioned directly next to, which was on the same feed. Lots of noise in the graphics (more than the other sets nearby). It was tennis. No RBEs that I could see. PIP was very nice, with several options, even on the side by side.

Still on the fence as to whether to wait for the XBR2 (assuming the price comes down).
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post #62 of 1724 Old 07-29-2006, 07:53 AM
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Most certainly this is an awesome TV. Probably the best DLP on the market. However...... I am on the fence as well on the XBR2. As much as I like the new Samsung 71" the SXRD sets are sharper with more contrast when comparing apples to apples. The DLP is a little soft in the sharpness compared to the SXRD.

Still..... with that being said there is the extra 2K and the wait. I have not ruled out the Sammy yet.

Please keep posting comments. Especially as it relates to SD viewing quality, sound quality, color and sharpness.

Thanks again all,

Howard Stockdale
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post #63 of 1724 Old 07-29-2006, 12:50 PM
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OK, I've had my 7178W since thursday afternoon and here's my initial review. More details and pictures will be forthcoming, I haven't had time to dump the pics from my camera, but that's another story...

Anyway, the HL-S7178W is glossy black, since some people keep asking and I haven't seen a definitive answer actually posted. Glossy black with a matte black speaker grille on the bottom. If you've seen the current all-black Samsung LCD TVs, this set looks just like them without the pointed bottom. It has a small base in the center that's only about 32" wide or so - this TV could sit on a small cabinet if someone wanted to do it. IIRC, weight was supposed to be about 175lbs, but I swear it's not that heavy. It's very light and easy to move/reposition.

The light engine/internal fans are very quiet. I don't hear them at all unless I put my head right up close to the base of the TV.

The picutre on this set is AMAZING, INCREDIBLE and just truly EXCEPTIONAL! I fired it up and and flipped through the picture modes and made a few minor tweaks (spendt about 2 minutes is all) and I can't believe how good the results are. A full calibration on this set should really make it shine. Although, the picture right out of the box is better than most other ISF calibrated DLP sets I've seen over the past couple years -- yes, it's that good, mostly due to DLP technology and the newer color wheel systems improving in quality. I was worried about rainbows on this larger screen, but so far I have not seen any. Even watching some hockey I had saved on my HD DVR last night in a dark room, I was unable to see any rainbows. There is some DLP sparkles present on occasion, but I don't think there's any way around this as all the current wobulated DLP sets have this. But we're talking one or two sparkles every few minutes and I think I'm the only one that notices them and I actually haven't seen any since thursday night.

A lot of people have been critical of Samsung's new TVs and the level of noise in the image. I've played with a 5087, 6188 and now my 7178 and all are just fine with a proper source. I'm also going to go out on a limb and say that the 7178 is surprisingly noise free and I think the picture looks better on it than what I saw of the 6188. I'm betting that Samsung took the extra time before shipping these sets to further fine-tune some of the image processing.

There is some SSE visible when I'm closer than about 8', but nothing that distracts from the image. The diamond-shaped pixels structure is visible when up close to the TV, but if your'e that close, you're not seeing the whole picture anyway. All in all, this set has a very film-like picture. IMO, it's every bit as good as the Sony Qualia 006 70" SXRD (which is still supposed to still be better than the upcoming XBR2 70"), if the Qualia has an edge, it would be in the black detail, but I found that this set handles blacks remarkably well for a projection set.

I can't comment on the internal speakers as I don't use them, haven't even tried them.

I haven't tried any PIP functionality yet. But what I gather is that it will allow two video sources to be used simultaneously, just not both HDMI at the same time (bummer). I'll try to report on this later. I actually haven't ventured off of my HDMI-1 input yet.

But from my first impressions of this TV, I highly recommend it. For those looking for a 70" HDTV or something about that size, this is currently the one to get and I've seen everything out there except the upcoming XBR2. While some may be inclined to wait for the XBR2 (I was tempted myself), you my find yourselves waiting another 2 months and paying another $2K for something that isn't any better. Or it might be a little better, possibly perceptable in a side-by-side comparison to a trained eye, but is it $2K better? Hmmm...
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post #64 of 1724 Old 07-29-2006, 03:27 PM
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Just a few more observations...

XBOX 360 - looks awesome on this set. I don't care for the look of the "game mode". Playing under the other normal modes with DNR turned off it seems to have better color and I haven't found any real lag just yet. But I've only played it for a short period.

I have a slight pincushion effect on both sides. It's very subtle and I didn't even notice it until today. Apparently I need to find out how to get into the service menu to address this issue (if possible) I know that some microdisplay HDTVs don't have very much if any geometry adjustments...

PIP on this set is somewhat of a joke. I didn't buy based on any claims of PIP and this doesn't effect how I feel about the TV, but I realize this may be an issue for others. There are two tuners in this set - one is tied to the CableCard and all the other rear A/V inputs (component, HDMI, S.Video, etc..). The second tuner is tied to the two coaxial inputs (Air and Cable). When activating PIP, the primary tuner works as usual and the secondary tuner is positioned on the screen wherever you would like it (various sizes and options including a couple side by side modes). IMO, this sucks because it's not possible to view my Dish sat receiver on one side of the screen and a DVD or HTPC on the other side. So, PIP on this set is essentially worthless. But those who would like to do PIP with basic cable or OTA feeds on one part of the screen and any of the other inputs on another, it might be useful. Samsung should have charged the extra $150 or whatever per TV and gave both tuners access to all the inputs. I'm actually very surprised by this limitation.

Aside from all of that, the TV is still amazing. Paired with the Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD player, it's a thing of beauty. As soon as Samsung ships a BluRay player with proper working video processor or someone else ships one that works, I'll give that a try again. I've got T2 on BluRay sitting here taunting me and no player.
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post #65 of 1724 Old 07-29-2006, 03:33 PM
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Applied Visual,

Can you post a photo showing how much pincushion.

Thanks
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post #66 of 1724 Old 07-29-2006, 04:12 PM
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Went back to BB/MAGNOLIA today to look at t.v. stands to fit the 7178 when I finally purchase it. Didn't like anything so I went to CC where to my surprise they had the KDS60A2000. I got a bit excited to see the set. When I did, what a dissappointment. It looked very cheap to me. Talking about the style of it. Silver looked spray painted by some kid. PQ was horrible on SD. I asked to put the Hawaii feed, they tried but didn't work.

I walked away happy to know that my choice is sound. There will be nothing left for me to look at, as far as televisions, and now back to looking for something to put the t.v. on. I like the MDesign, Eleganza Cappuccino, but WOW it's very expensive. Any online etailers selling this piece of furniture that anyone knows of? Let me know.
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post #67 of 1724 Old 07-29-2006, 06:59 PM
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I really like this stand check it out.. A little pricey but its nice and functional.

http://www.diamondcase.com/MUNARI/Mu...les/SysM1.HTML


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post #68 of 1724 Old 07-29-2006, 07:01 PM
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Also anyone else have a directtv hughes h20 sat box and have figured out how to get hdmi to work properly on the 7178?

steve
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post #69 of 1724 Old 07-29-2006, 07:33 PM
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ssmoore - Neither my set, Nevin's or the HL-S 6767W would work with the H20. I setup my HL-P6163 with the H20 in our bedroom this afternoon. After reboot, the 6163 displayed "HDMI Mode Not Supported." After looking at the front panel of the H20 I noticed it was set to 480i. Switching it to 480p solved the problem. Tried the same thing on my HL-S7178W and it worked. No more blanking of the screen. I'll try it on HD channels once Alex Jones is through debunking the official 911 story on CSPAN 1.

Edit: Works fine on HD channels as long as the front pannel of the H20 is set to 480p and let the HL-S7178W do the rest, which means you don't really have HD...
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post #70 of 1724 Old 07-29-2006, 08:23 PM
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http://mdesignlife.com/productPage.asp?pin=2639
I would still like to find something like this, but without the heavy price tag. I've searched all day for others selling this product, but have had no luck.
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post #71 of 1724 Old 07-29-2006, 08:24 PM
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post #72 of 1724 Old 07-29-2006, 08:34 PM
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Ray - Consider the height of these units. The 7178 is a tall beast. To have your eye level at the center of the screen requires a low stand. It's going to take the mass market a while to catch up, if they do. You may be better served by contracting with a custom cabinet maker.
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post #73 of 1724 Old 07-29-2006, 08:42 PM
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AppliedVisual,

Congratulations on your new TV. Thanks for taking the time to hammer out your initial impressions. Your review so far has put the HL-S7176 back as my number one choice in terms of the sets that I have been reviewing.

It would be great to hear your review on the internal speakers. I have an acoustically challenged room and we don't always use he home theater system. Hopefully the new high definition TiVo will aid in that area. Although I have several mono block amps and my wife usually does not want to turn each one on.

I am also curious of the PC input. Have you tried PC output at 1920x1080? Does the TV look as good as a high quality HD PC display when surfing the web or using Windows XP? Can you PIP the PC input with any other input. In other words can we surf the web and watch TV. (Useful for fantasy football live scoring.)

Thanks again,

Howard Stockdale
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post #74 of 1724 Old 07-29-2006, 08:47 PM
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Thanks for the info guys.......

Anyone know if the base could be removed so it just rest flat on the bottom?
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post #75 of 1724 Old 07-29-2006, 09:06 PM
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Mr. Thompson, how many inches from the ground would you recommend for this unit?

My neighbor has a custom built wall unit. I'll ask his guy for ideas, but my neighbor warned me that though he does a great job, he will take a considerable amount of time to get it done. I'll need something in the meantime while I get something permanent.
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post #76 of 1724 Old 07-29-2006, 10:16 PM
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yes the center thing or shoe or whateever you wanna call it is removable from the 7178.. Take out 2 screws push down 2 locking tabs and slide towards the back.. I just did that yesterday. Now the whole base of the tv will rest flat on the stand. Seemed to help with stability on my stand.


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post #77 of 1724 Old 07-29-2006, 10:20 PM
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Check out this stand this is the one I just bought to hold me till I have a stand made. Its pretty nice for the money.

http://www.artvan.com/webapp/wcs/sto...7000&langId=-1

Or this http://www.artvan.com/webapp/wcs/sto...7000&langId=-1

or this http://www.artvan.com/webapp/wcs/sto...7000&langId=-1
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post #78 of 1724 Old 07-30-2006, 11:00 AM
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This is the stand I'm mostly likely going to get when I buy this set: http://www.audio-video-furniture.com...ideo-Stand.htm

Applefind: Can you post some pics?

Friends don't let friends game in SD.
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post #79 of 1724 Old 07-30-2006, 11:38 AM
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How is the PQ for standard cable, such as the Golf Channel, Lifetime, etc. My wife still watches a lot of standard cable channels and the PQ needs to match up against my current Pioneer 64 ich CRT RP. Other wise I am in big trouble
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post #80 of 1724 Old 07-30-2006, 12:32 PM
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I should have some pics to post sometime tomorrow or tuesday... Sorry about the delay on that, but someone had to borrow my digital camera in a pinch.

Anyway here's some more... I went into the service menu and as expected (with most such microdisplay sets) there are no adjustments for screen geometry. It may be possible to compensate for the pincushion by a phisical adjustment inside, but it is very slight and only noticeable in a few special situations. I can see a hint of it in the bottom right corner in my Dish channel guide or on other such graphical menus with straight lines. The pincushion is worse at the center of the screen than on the outer extremeties, but some such distortion is to be expected given the size of this projection. In some ways I'm wishing I hadn't brought it up as it may steer a few buyers away from this set for what is really a non-issue. I have yet to see *ANY* projection display with perfect screen geometry, it doesn't happen, period. So this isn't anything to worry about, but for those who may buy this (or any other rear projection HDTV) be aware that minor geometric flaws are going to exist. If you want perfect screen geometry, or as close as you can get to it, then LCD or plasma flat panel displays are your only choice. Perhaps the $40K JVC LCOS studio monitor is pretty good too.

I don't have standard cable and OTA reception in this area is very poor. I can't receive any OTA HD. OK. My TV is delivered to me via Dish (I'm a recent convert from DirecTV, but that's another story. But one of the deciding factors was getting my local channels in HD).

@ BMELVIN :

Standard definition channels look pretty good on this TV. However it does suffer from the "screen is too good" affliction that most HDTV sets (especially 1080p sets) have to contend with. It shows every single flaw in the image, every compression artifact, everything! And you do truly see how bad an SD source is. The clarity on this TV is very, very good and the difference between a top DVD transfer like the Superbit SpiderMan 2 vs. a good HD-DVD transfer like Serenity, is night and day. I know the HD-DVD and DVD comparison is a bit off key, but I'm trying to state that the resolution on this set, even with the pixels large enough to occupy the 71" diagonal space, is very very good. Your SD sources and standard cable will look OK... They will look every bit as good as what the transmission signal allows... What does that mean? Your older TV will have a much more pleasing look to the SD channels I fear as it doesn't have the resolution and is much more forgiving as it does a lot to smooth over the undesirable. FWIW, SD sources on this set look every bit as good as they do on the Sony SXRD and Qualia LCOS sets. Take that as you see fit, but I doubt you'll find SD or standard cable to be as pleasing on this set as you do on an older CRT based system.

@ sliderhss:

I gave the internal speakers a test. IMO, they're not too bad for internal TV speakers. Very usable for regular TV watching for things like the news or even regular TV programming that's broadcast in regular 2.0 stereo. I'm a poor judge of this at times, I'm somewhat of an audiophile and tend to think a lot of sound systems sound pretty bad, even when most people are pleased with them. I did detect a little bit of hissing and thought the low range was somewhat muffled and distorted, but they didn't sound too tinny or bright. I don't know what else to say here... They're the typical built-in speakers that (IMNSHO) shouldn't be a part of any TV.

I haven't had a chance to try connecting a PC yet... I will do so in the next couple days as I'm curious as well. Although, I probably won't be using it for this. There will be the overscan issue to contend with, which isn't a problem with newer nVidia hardware and drivers. Since the HDMI, Component / RGB inputs all share Tuner #1 you will only be able to do PIP with a PC and one of the two sources that are assigned to Tuner #2. Those two sources are the coaxial inputs for OTA and cable. If you have standard cable, or feed your OTA reception right into the TV, then you won't have an issue. but as I covered in a previous post, the PIP on this TV is severely crippled.

@ JimP:

I will try to take a picture showing the pincushion. As I've said, it's relatively minor and I would expect all these larger rear projection displays to have this or other similar geometry issues. Even the Sony Qualia 006 SXRD 70" is known for its radial parabola distortion (looks like pincushion, but only present in the middle of the image).

Other notes that may be of interest... Viewing angles on this set are very good, better than I expected. Horizontally, it's every bit of the 175 degrees they claim and there's very little falloff at all and you probably have to be at 150 degrees to start getting any falloff. Vertically, the viewing angles dissipate much quicker, but nothing that should cause any problems. My daughter is just over 3' tall and has no trouble seeing the TV when playing on the floor and it sits up a bit high in our room too. I can stand on the second floor loft and look down at the TV and while it does dim from this angle, is still perfectly watchable. Our primary seading position is about 15 feet back from the TV and we have a higher than average cocktail table in the room so the TV sitting higher works great. It's in a niche on a built-in cabinet with the cabinet top right at 24". That places the bottom of the screen about 30" off the floor and the top of the TV is right about 6'. It provides excellent viewing position whether standing or sitting in the room.

And for those with DirecTV and Dish HD receivers (since both seem to have HDMI issues), I am having some difficulties with my Dish ViP 622 and its HDMI output. About 70% of the time, the 7178W just reports a weak or no signal. Running off component works fine, but the picture isn't as good due to the digital to analog and back to digital conversion. What's weird is that the first two days, the HDMI worked just fine from the 622 HD DVR so I didn't report this issue right off. Now it's intermittant. I know the HDMI out works just fine because I'm splitting the signal and sending it to an LCD TV in the next room. ...And it's not the splitter either.

No connectivity issues with the Toshiba HD-A1 that some people have reported with other Samsung HL-S series TVs, but I also have the latest firmware update. For those with this player, be sure you connect to ethernet if you have decent internet access and you can tell the player to update its firmware.

I'll post my pictures and hopefully wrap up all my initial thoughts here in the next couple days. But so far so good and I'm happy with my purchase even though some of the issues I've encountered (mostly the PIP situation) may give other buyers something to think about.
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post #81 of 1724 Old 07-30-2006, 01:09 PM
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This stand has already been posted, but it is the one that I decided to go with:

http://www.racksandstands.com/BDI-De...253BD1091.html

I went with it because:
1) The top shelf of the TR71B (Accompanying Sammy stand) does not leave enough room for my center. The shelves aren't adjustable on of the support bars seems to limit the usuable space.

3) The gloss black finish should look pretty sharp with the 7178W

4) It is 19" high which is very close to the TR71B meaning that the TV should sit at the right height

On the downside it is more than I wanted to spend.
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post #82 of 1724 Old 07-31-2006, 07:54 PM
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Well, I'm getting tired of looking through all of these sites and not liking anything. My mind has a certain look that I want in a stand, also has to be stylish and elegant to fit my home. Remember, in Florida there are no basements, so my family room is there in the open for all to see.

Tomorrow I'm meeting with a builder of wall units. He will be able to see all my components, and I'll let him know of a couple of more future components I'll be adding. I want fans to circulate and probably some type of matching end table or corner piece to put my sub in, as long as it doesn't affect the sound quality. I'm basically an audiophile. I'll keep everyone posted as to what we come up with and will keep you all abreast as to our progress.
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post #83 of 1724 Old 08-01-2006, 12:31 PM
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Wow...............



More to follow (By Thursday)
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post #84 of 1724 Old 08-02-2006, 05:15 PM
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AppliedVisual

Being that most broadcast is SD and SD on the 7178 is not as good as a CRT TV, how much of a setback is it for you to watch SD with this set? I think this is the only thing left that scares me from getting a DLP (7178 in particular).
What is the closest large set with a similar engine that I could look at for a comparison (6187) ?
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post #85 of 1724 Old 08-02-2006, 06:37 PM
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That was a good review. Pity I don't have any hd content to throw at it yet. I went and got the stand from Magnolia near me. An SL20 its a 3 layer 20" hi wood with black metal supports. Cost was 900$ (a lot). TV was $4185 inc shipping from electronics expo in NJ. Always the risk doing the shipping thing since its a drop and they don't take the box away. If you pay the $500+ to Magnolia, they will take away the old set and the box and make sure its not DOA. No complaints tho, it all worked out. I am pleased with the set, progressive scan DVDs look fine and I will get a bluray player maximally when the PS3 comes out and minimally when I get an itch to see bluray hd content before nov. It is a big set and you do need to make some changes in your room to take it (at least I did). I will post a picture of my stand and setup tomorrow.
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post #86 of 1724 Old 08-02-2006, 07:52 PM
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Does anyone know how to get into the service menu?
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post #87 of 1724 Old 08-02-2006, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryK View Post

AppliedVisual

Being that most broadcast is SD and SD on the 7178 is not as good as a CRT TV, how much of a setback is it for you to watch SD with this set? I think this is the only thing left that scares me from getting a DLP (7178 in particular).
What is the closest large set with a similar engine that I could look at for a comparison (6187) ?

Viewing SD on it is not a problem. Looks just fine... I wouldn't say that it isn't as good as a CRT, it's just that these newer DLP and HD sets show off a lot of the flaws of SD content. With a good quality source connection and decent SD content, it looks just fine. DVDs look great, even the overcompressed digital through Dish or DirecTV are perfectly watchable. Those coming from a CRT TV that is not HD capable, will probably feel that the picture isn't as good. But it's just your brain telling you that since you can now actually see how crappy the picture really is.

Good sets to compare with are the Samsung HL-S6187/6188. The 60" Sony SXRD and the 70" Sony Qualia 006 SXRD also have comparable SD performance. IMO, the 7178 and the Qualia 006 are very similar in performance all across the board. And FWIW, I think the 7178 has a better picture for both SD and HD vs. the 6187/6188. Not sure why this is, but it sure looks better to me.
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post #88 of 1724 Old 08-02-2006, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ssmoore View Post

Does anyone know how to get into the service menu?

The TV must be in off/standby mode...

Grab your remote and press: Mute, 1, 8, 2, Power.

You are now in service mode... Don't F--- andything up!
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post #89 of 1724 Old 08-03-2006, 12:50 AM
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Here is the tv on its stand. Prob, could remove the base as the stand is wide enough.
LL
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post #90 of 1724 Old 08-03-2006, 07:44 AM
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Here is the tv on its stand. Prob, could remove the base as the stand is wide enough.

Time for some wire management and a wall darkening paint... would give it a clean "home theater" look.

Betcha it looks great and sounds great, too!

Nice!

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