Νew Optoma's HD20 brochure available at Greek avsite.gr - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 317 Old 06-13-2009, 01:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Greek Audio & Video forum AVsite.gr published a brochure with specs and pictures of the new Optoma HD20. It's a full-HD DLP projector that's expected to give the market a stir with its ultra-low price.
You can download the brochure and participate at the ongoing Greek & English discussion here (a free subscription is required).

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post #2 of 317 Old 06-13-2009, 07:21 AM
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Thanks for the tip. I'm very interested in the next round of product updates from Optoma, Infocus, and Panasonic (others too). I have high expectations for the next 3-4 months that the under $1200 projector market will heat up with innovative options.

I don't have any inside info... just hopes and dreams.
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post #3 of 317 Old 06-13-2009, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Headroom View Post

Greek Audio & Video forum AVsite.gr published a brochure with specs and pictures of the new Optoma HD20. It's a full-HD DLP projector that's expected to give the market a stir with its ultra-low price.
You can download the brochure and participate at the ongoing Greek & English discussion here (a free subscription is required).

It looks like the HD20 brochure says basically the same thing about CR as the HD86 brochure and I addressed that over in the thread about the HD86 on the >$3k forum. I'll just post a link to that for the long version:

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post16641812

For a short version, if people claim that ANSI CR tells the CR that people will get in the real world with real content, I think people should ask them how they came to that conclusion, how CRT front projectors do for perception of blacks in the real world with lots of various real content, how earlier digitals have done for perception of blacks in the real world with lots of various content in comparison, and then how CRTs do for ANSI CR (they are amongst the worst for ANSI CR in case anybody doesn't know that).

As far as the HD20, the specs say 500:1 ANSI CR vs 700:1 for the HD86. I wonder if that is really the case. Based on the lens they show it could be from that. I wonder how these do for on/off CR. They don't spec it, but despite any claims trying to disparage on/off CR, the fact is that it is relevant to real content and it would be interesting to know what it is. Native for the HD20 and both native and dynamic for the HD86.

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post #4 of 317 Old 06-13-2009, 11:03 AM
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Wow, ive never seen a manufacturer state ansi contrast. I am extremely glad Optoma is starting to use ANSI and not the worthless on/off. Good job Optoma.
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post #5 of 317 Old 06-13-2009, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by *UFO* View Post

Wow, ive never seen a manufacturer state ansi contrast. I am extremely glad Optoma is starting to use ANSI and not the worthless on/off.

Wow. I'm assuming you are serious about "the worthless on/off" and not joking because you realize how wrong that is. Other than some ignorant kid in Australia claiming things like that in an article, how did you get to that conclusion? I assume it wasn't by comparing things like with CRTs that have poor ANSI CR and high on/off CR to see what happens with real video.

If on/off CR is worthless, then why have TI and Optoma been working to improve it? Or do you think the biggest CR improvements from TI and Optoma have been to ANSI CR? They had big ANSI CR years ago. What is the point of Optoma's implementation of DynamicBlack if on/off CR is worthless?

If your position is that on/off CR specs are worthless then that has some validity in the same way that all things that aren't true are worthless (manufacturers can lie) and that using modes that aren't calibrated isn't really relevant to what people will get in calibrated modes (the same thing applies to other specs), or if it is that dynamic on/off CR isn't the same as native on/off CR of the same amount then that has validity, but if you think that real on/off CR is worthless to real video, then you have a lot to learn.

I'm amazed at the number of people who don't seem to understand that the black pedestal that images are built upon is relevant to real video and not just the washout effect that ANSI CR mostly measures. Especially when the ANSI CR test is so much different than even average images (ANSI checkerboards are very bright compared to average images, let alone dark images).

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post #6 of 317 Old 06-14-2009, 05:02 PM
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Darin, I do agree that true on/off contrast ratio is important. I was talking about the useless specs that manufacturers exploit super high on/off contrast ratios, when in reality, a properly calibrated and tweaked projector wont come near the claimed spec. There are however a few rare occasions where its close. Now for how important on/off ansi contrast is, thats all opinion. Manufacturers are most likely trying to improve on on/off contrast to make their spec numbers biger so that people will read their spec sheet and go, "Wow!, 1,000,000:1 contrast ratio!", when in reality, that spec is completely worthless when calibrated to D65. To me, Ansi contrast is more important. I see a huge difference in picture when I compare a low ANSI contrast projector to a higher ANSI contrast projector. The color jump out at you and in a scene with blacks and whites, the blacks are nice and inky, while a lower ANSI picture results in grayish blacks.
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post #7 of 317 Old 06-14-2009, 11:38 PM
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The HD20 might just be what I need to replace my HD70 with. Anybody know the price and release date? Thanks for the info.

My HD70 has been an excellent projector for 3 years now. I have high hope for this new projector.
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post #8 of 317 Old 06-15-2009, 05:24 PM
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I to and very interested in the price of the HD20. Maybe its the first 999.99 1080p projector.
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post #9 of 317 Old 06-15-2009, 06:22 PM
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The 5 year color quality guarantee is interesting, as well. I don't recall this being offered on other lower end Optoma projectors, unless it's something I had overlooked. I was ready to pull the trigger on the Tiger Direct X10 deal, but I'd like to see what new models like the HD20 lie on the horizon.

Where's Guitarman when you need him with some info on the HD20?
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post #10 of 317 Old 06-15-2009, 10:58 PM
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Did I miss it, or no offset was listed? I hope the offset for this thing is like that of the HD65, not the HD70.
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post #11 of 317 Old 06-16-2009, 07:06 AM
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I am really looking forward to some more information on this as I am ready to buy something but don't want to jump before some new pjs are released. Come on Guitarman chime in
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post #12 of 317 Old 06-16-2009, 09:13 PM
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Found this quote at hometheaterprojector.org, for whatever it's worth - "Optoma HD20 has somehow found a competition in InFocus IN82 because they have generally similar specifications and they offer the same quality performance in Media Projection."

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post #13 of 317 Old 06-16-2009, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reconlabtech View Post

Found this quote at hometheaterprojector.org, for whatever it's worth - "Optoma HD20 has somehow found a competition in InFocus IN82 because they have generally similar specifications and they offer the same quality performance in Media Projection."

Let's hope it doesn't share the IN82's $5,400 list price.
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post #14 of 317 Old 06-17-2009, 06:34 AM
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Looks like they are on sale in Canada and no where near $5,400.
Google Optoma HD200X and you will see that they are at the place that shall not be posted.

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post #15 of 317 Old 06-17-2009, 07:19 AM
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Not a bad price after currency conversion, from that retailer which shall not be named; particularly if the HD20 is comparable to the IN82 in presentation. I like the fact that it offers 2 HDMI 1.3 inputs. Now if we can just get a clarification on the offset...
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post #16 of 317 Old 06-17-2009, 08:12 AM
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That's the same projector? Nothing is listed on Optoma website. Whatever it is, it has some impressive specs for the price: 1080P, 1,500 lumens, 4,000hrs lamp. One area of concern is the light weight of 6.4lb.
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post #17 of 317 Old 06-17-2009, 08:22 AM
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This could be my next projector... Lets see more info on placement and some reviews!

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post #18 of 317 Old 06-17-2009, 08:28 AM
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Definately interested in this now especially since it looks to be on sale in some places.
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post #19 of 317 Old 06-17-2009, 10:11 AM
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sweet...let's hope it's quiet and minimal RBE. I returned my refurb W5000 due to bad RBE and noisy picture.
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post #20 of 317 Old 06-17-2009, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidt1 View Post

That's the same projector? Nothing is listed on Optoma website. Whatever it is, it has some impressive specs for the price: 1080P, 1,500 lumens, 4,000hrs lamp.

One other thing that one lists is 2500:1 on/off CR. I don't see anything about DynamicBlack there.

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post #21 of 317 Old 06-17-2009, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by DooLocsta View Post

I am really looking forward to some more information on this as I am ready to buy something but don't want to jump before some new pjs are released. Come on Guitarman chime in


Ok I found out they will be out in 2 months, Best Buys will even have them. Details I got is Full 1080p, 1700lumens, 230watt lamp, RGB/RGB colorwheel 4x speed, white projector somewhat small a little larger than the HD65. My friend says I'm first in line for a machine to review here. Oh the price isn't set yet. They may stay close to the competitors machines, don't know just guessing.

I'm hoping it's low like the speculation one can only hope, I could use one also.

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post #22 of 317 Old 06-17-2009, 11:23 AM
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The Optoma 200x is available in Canadian C0$tC0 stores for $1599. Not bad, but I expected $1299.

My HD70 will last me another 2 years easily. Hopefully, they'll have LEDs replacing lamps for around $1000.

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post #23 of 317 Old 06-17-2009, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

Ok I found out they will be out in 2 months.

Thanks for the news. Any info on the HD86 for the other forum?

--Darin
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post #24 of 317 Old 06-17-2009, 12:56 PM
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How can the big retailer sell something that's not even on Optoma website? LED projectors are not going to be affordable for at least a few models. So far there is none.
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post #25 of 317 Old 06-17-2009, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

Ok I found out they will be out in 2 months, Best Buys will even have them. Details I got is Full 1080p, 1700lumens, 230watt lamp, RGB/RGB colorwheel 4x speed, white projector somewhat small a little larger than the HD65. My friend says I'm first in line for a machine to review here. Oh the price isn't set yet. They may stay close to the competitors machines, don't know just guessing.

I'm hoping it's low like the speculation one can only hope, I could use one also.

Glad to hear it I can't wait for you to start the review thread.
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post #26 of 317 Old 06-17-2009, 03:50 PM
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If it retails for $1599 at Best Buy, we should be able to find one for @ $1,000 when they come out. Looking forward to the reviews!

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post #27 of 317 Old 06-18-2009, 08:30 AM
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For HDTV viewing experience, you must contact your local cable or satellite provider for HDTV services in your area.



The Optoma® HD200X provides superior image quality with native TrueHD 1080p (1920 x 1080) resolution. The HD200X delivers vibrant life-like images and videos using BrilliantColor™ and the latest 1080p DLP® chipset from Texas Instruments®. Its high native contrast ratio makes for crisp, clean text in bright rooms using Optoma®'s proprietary ImageAI™ technology. Optoma®’s filter-free design allows for a lower total cost of ownership by eliminating the need to change filters.



Features:
BrilliantColor™ technology
Brightness: 1,500 ANSI lumens
Projection system: 0.65-in DMD TM DLP® technology by Texas Instruments®
Contrast ratio: 2,500:1 using proprietary ImageAI™ technology from Optoma®
Native aspect ratio: 16:9 (4:3 and 16:10 selectable)
Native resolution: TrueHD 1080p (1920 x 1080)
Throw ratio: 1.28-1.536:1
Minimum throw distance: 1.2 m (3.93 ft.)
Maximum throw distance: 10 m (32.8 ft.)
HDTV compatible with: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p
Video compatibility: NTSC, PAL, SECAM, SDTV, EDTV, HDTV
Computer compatibility: HD, UXGA, WXGA, SXGA+, SXGA, XGA, SVGA, VGA, VESA, PC and Macintosh
Image size (diagonal): 36.3 in. to 362.7 in.
Zoom ratio: 1.12:1
Vertical keystone correction: ±40 degrees
Lamp type: 230 W P-VIP
Lamp life: 4,000/3,000 hours (standard/bright-mode)
Auto switching power supply: 100 to 240 V AC, 50 to 60 Hz

Inputs:
2 x HDMI™ v1.3
1 x composite
1 x VGA
1 x component video

Included Accessories:
AC power cord,
Composite video cable
Remote control with batteries
User guide
Quick start card
Warranty card
Lens cap

Specifications:
Dimensions (W x D x H):
32.4 cm x 23.4 cm x 9.7 cm
(12.8 in. x 9.2 in. x 3.8 in.)
Weight: 2.9 kg (6.4 lb.)

Warranty and Return:
90 days on lamp
Costco extends manufacturer warranty to 2 years
Returns accepted within 90 days from date of purchase

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post #28 of 317 Old 06-18-2009, 08:35 AM
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Contrast ratio: 2,500:1

Why........ soooo......... low?

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post #29 of 317 Old 06-18-2009, 10:05 AM
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DLP's in general come in at 1200.1 to 3000.1 with no DI enabled. Sharps have had good native CR with the Iris they used. I told Wing yesterday the since the HD20 is so bright 1700 lumens tops why not install a simple Iris like the NEC HT1000 had.

He said he did suggest adding one the cost would have been around $10 a unit but higher ups wanted to keep the cost low. I say the company could have sold many more projectors with this small addition. CR would go way up and word of mouth on forums from videophiles recommending this new projector would sky rocket the sales. Who do they think are buying these projectors, not walk in store customers who know nothing of front projectors. It's the internet forums knowledgeable video members that make the sales.

Next time I hope they add this low priced and very valuable feature. Man they should have been adding this all along. Think of the sales they missed, wow open up your mind out there.

I will now step off the soapbox.

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post #30 of 317 Old 06-18-2009, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

He said he did suggest adding one the cost would have been around $10 a unit but higher ups wanted to keep the cost low. I say the company could have sold many more projectors with this small addition. CR would go way up and word of mouth on forums from videophiles recommending this new projector would sky rocket the sales. Who do they think are buying these projectors, not walk in store customers who no nothing of front projectors. It's the internet forums knowledgeable video members that make the sales.

Next time I hope they add this low priced and very valuable feature. Man they should have been adding this all along. Think of the sales they missed, wow open up your mind out there.

It would add a little more cost, but 2 irises like the Sharp 12k had (one before the DMD and one after, lined up pretty well) is even more magical as far as on/off CR with DLPs. The HT1000 had the iris in the lens like you mentioned and it worked well. The Sharp 10k around the same time did the same. Then Sharp went to 2 irises with the 12k. The first iris in the lens cuts the light a fair amount and increases the contrast ratio a fair amount (at least when done right and compared to having the lens be open). Then the 2nd iris cuts the light a small amount, but increases the CR quite a bit. I could explain the physics, but it gets a little long and you may have seen me go over that before.

Sharp had 3 modes for the irises, but a projector could just have 2. One for both irises open and one for both irises closed down. With single chip DLPs at least it is almost to the point that once you close one iris down, you might as well close the other one down some to go along with it.

If Optoma does an LED based projector I hope they will do something like this. Some might think that since LEDs can be dimmed there is no reason for manual irises, but that isn't the case because dimming LEDs dims white and black equally, while irises done right will dim black much more than white (increasing the native or static on/off CR). And when the user is given a choice they don't have to use the higher contrast ratio and lower lumens mode, but having modes like that has helped Sharp and Marantz sell projectors. Also, with a dynamic system with LEDs the higher the native on/off CR, the higher the dynamic on/off CR should be able to go with the same amount of side effects. So, if 2k:1 native on/off CR allows say 10k:1 dynamic on/off CR with LEDs, then 8k:1 native should allow at least 40k:1 dynamic with LEDs. Or something like that.

Also, as far as sales missed, I think you are pretty much on the right track. Despite some comments from luminaries and others in the industry against on/off CR that basically show they don't understand the physics/subject matter, higher on/off CR continues to be something that viewers see the improvement from and spend their money on. Just imagine how JVC sales would be if they weren't the on/off CR leaders. I get the impression that sales ratios between them and Sony largely swapped when JVC went from trailing Sony in on/off CR to leading them. And the SIM2 Lumis has gotten sales from leading 3 chip DLP in on/off CR. So, it would behoove manufacturers to pay attention to that, going along with what you said.

--Darin
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