Optoma HD70 to HD25-LV or Benq w1070 & screen considerations - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 16 Old 12-04-2013, 12:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello all,

It's about that time of year, I am due for my yearly upgrades to my dedicated home theater room. The room itself is fully light controlled with no windows and measures approximately:

1) 16' wide by 20' deep x 11' height
3) Rear projection wall is 9” tall x 16 feet wide
4) Prime seating position is currently 14’ to the back wall/screen

I currently have a Optoma HD70 (720P "1000" lumens rated) projector and a 96" screen. I've only got about 1,000 hours on the lamp so I think it still has good brightness. I am using an Elite 96" manual screen (Maxwhite 1.1 material I believe). The top of the current Optoma HD70 projector is 104” from the floor on a telescoping mount.

I would like to upgrade and have been researching projectors for a few days. My goals are good 3D performance, excellent 2D performance, and the largest screen that is reasonable for my space.

I have been looking at screens in the 120" - 150" range. My projector throw distance is currently 13', I could move it if necessary but would prefer not to have to move the mount if possible. The Cinegray 5D screen material looked appealing, but it appears to only be offered in the EZ frame model instead of the more affordable (for me) Sable model. Can the material be purchased separately? I don't mind building a screen frame if it is going to be a significant savings.

Right now I am leaning towards the following:

Optoma HD-25LV
Elite ER135WH1 135" 1.1 Cinewhite

From what I've read on here the Estar RF emitter and glasses are the way to go?

My main questions are this:

1) With my room/distance dimensions will I be able to project onto this screen correctly?
2) Am I in the ballpark for the correct screen size? I would like to do the 150" screen but I'm afraid it is too big for my room.
3) Will I need more screen gain? Is it appropriate to do the Airbright3D2 2.0 gain in the 150" size? Cinegray 5D?

Using the little tool on projectorcentral.com it says I would need to increase my throw distance to 16' for 1.1 zoom @ 135" and 15' for 1.2 zoom @ 135". Is that roughly accurate? All information/gentle flaming appreciated smile.gif.
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post #2 of 16 Old 12-05-2013, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhammans View Post

Hello all,

It's about that time of year, I am due for my yearly upgrades to my dedicated home theater room. The room itself is fully light controlled with no windows and measures approximately:

1) 16' wide by 20' deep x 11' height
3) Rear projection wall is 9” tall x 16 feet wide
4) Prime seating position is currently 14’ to the back wall/screen

I currently have a Optoma HD70 (720P "1000" lumens rated) projector and a 96" screen. I've only got about 1,000 hours on the lamp so I think it still has good brightness. I am using an Elite 96" manual screen (Maxwhite 1.1 material I believe). The top of the current Optoma HD70 projector is 104” from the floor on a telescoping mount.

I would like to upgrade and have been researching projectors for a few days. My goals are good 3D performance, excellent 2D performance, and the largest screen that is reasonable for my space.

I have been looking at screens in the 120" - 150" range. My projector throw distance is currently 13', I could move it if necessary but would prefer not to have to move the mount if possible. The Cinegray 5D screen material looked appealing, but it appears to only be offered in the EZ frame model instead of the more affordable (for me) Sable model. Can the material be purchased separately? I don't mind building a screen frame if it is going to be a significant savings.

Right now I am leaning towards the following:

Optoma HD-25LV
Elite ER135WH1 135" 1.1 Cinewhite

From what I've read on here the Estar RF emitter and glasses are the way to go?

My main questions are this:

1) With my room/distance dimensions will I be able to project onto this screen correctly?
2) Am I in the ballpark for the correct screen size? I would like to do the 150" screen but I'm afraid it is too big for my room.
3) Will I need more screen gain? Is it appropriate to do the Airbright3D2 2.0 gain in the 150" size? Cinegray 5D?

Using the little tool on projectorcentral.com it says I would need to increase my throw distance to 16' for 1.1 zoom @ 135" and 15' for 1.2 zoom @ 135". Is that roughly accurate? All information/gentle flaming appreciated smile.gif.

Congrats on the upgrade. The calculators are generally accurate. rolleyes.gif
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post #3 of 16 Old 12-05-2013, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Congrats on the upgrade. The calculators are generally accurate. rolleyes.gif

Does that mean that you think I am generally on the right track? I'm assuming the calculator is accurate enough to say that it will work - but I might need to move things around a few inches in whatever direction to get everything to line up correctly. Definitely looks like I'll need to move the mount back a couple feet.
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post #4 of 16 Old 12-05-2013, 12:33 PM
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I went from the Optoma HD70 to the BenQ1070 and it was a very good upgrade. I use a Dalite HP 2.8 gain 110" screen that I've had for 13 years since owning my original projector, the Sony W400q. I sit about 8-9 feet from the screen, which would have been too close for the HD70 IMHO. I am a fan of higher gain screens, especially on bigger screens and especially watching 3D. The rainbows are similar between the two projectors, maybe a little more on the BenQ due to the greater brightness. The BenQ is much sharper with good material. So you could sit closer or go with the bigger screen without fear of the picture becoming too soft. The BenQ is much brighter than the HD70 and the perceived contrast is better to me, perhaps due to the brightness. On a high power screen it really feels close to a giant plasma. In 3D, brightness is much less but still good.

The BenQ can throw a 119" to 156" diagonal picture from 13 feet back. The Optoma HD25-LV can throw a 100" to 119" picture from that distance. You may want to make sure if your mount is compatible with the BenQ. While, limited, the lens shift on the BenQ was extremely helpful in the setting it up properly.

I probably would go with a higher gain screen and go 120" or 135" inches, but that's just my preference because I like a bright image and 3D will cut the brightness tremendously. I'm sure either projector will feel like a major upgrade for you.
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post #5 of 16 Old 12-05-2013, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by dhammans View Post

Does that mean that you think I am generally on the right track? I'm assuming the calculator is accurate enough to say that it will work - but I might need to move things around a few inches in whatever direction to get everything to line up correctly. Definitely looks like I'll need to move the mount back a couple feet.

Definitely on the right track as your numbers look right for the projectors you are considering. A couple more thoughts...

Screen size.... Like in the theatre, the bigger the better. Throw caution to the wind on this one and get the biggest size your wall and projector can push. The BenQ 1080St is a great option to push a large and bright image. When I upgraded from a Sanyo PLV-Z3, task of moving the ceiling mount was well worth the effort. If you are in the market for a screen, Severtson is the way to go. Their screen materials and coatings set the industry standard used by IMAX, IMAX 3D, RealD, etc. Chances are you've already watched a movie on their tech....

Overview of my 1080ST installation:
  • 119" Severtson Screen with .95 gain & 4" black velvet frame(2005), with the 1080ST 's lens mounted about 6' from the screen,
  • Light leakage on a dark ceiling is not an issue.
  • Fan noise is not an issue as it's projected forward and in front of the audience.
  • 3D brightness is not an issue.
  • Projector placement works great for Kinect - there's no standing in front of the image.
  • The image holds up well with ambient light.
  • Seating at 9' to 10' delivers a theatre like experience.
  • Gaming from a pull up couch @ 6' is over the top.
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post #6 of 16 Old 12-05-2013, 05:27 PM - Thread Starter
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The BenQ can throw a 119" to 156" diagonal picture from 13 feet back. The Optoma HD25-LV can throw a 100" to 119" picture from that distance. You may want to make sure if your mount is compatible with the BenQ. While, limited, the lens shift on the BenQ was extremely helpful in the setting it up properly.

I probably would go with a higher gain screen and go 120" or 135" inches, but that's just my preference because I like a bright image and 3D will cut the brightness tremendously. I'm sure either projector will feel like a major upgrade for you.

I am leaning towards the HD25-LV due to the RF glasses option and extra light output. I have had good experience with BenQ in the past though on other products.

135" is where I'm going to have to go. My projection wall is about 195" (3" over 16) wide, and 9 feet tall. The room however has vaulted ceilings, so the projector mount actually has an 11' ceiling. If I were to put a 150" screen in there it would literally cover so much of the wall I am not sure I could get my speakers (Klipsch RF-83) and subwoofers (Klipsch RW-12D x 2) on either side of the screen. It would also be extremely tight vertically. I have the 135" mocked up on the wall right now with tape and I have 36.5" on either side of the screen for the speakers so that's a tight fit already. With the 150 I would only have 29" on either side, and I would have to take down the ceiling fan in order to raise the projector up high enough. It is a dedicated theater room and the fan isn't that big of a deal, but it's nice in the summer to keep the air moving.

Is the 1.1 gain 135" screen going to have enough gain? I want it to be bright for 3D, I'm guessing I will probably have to turn the brightness down for 2D if I get a 2.0 gain screen. It's difficult to calculate with the projectorcentral.com calculator because it is using 3200 lumens (which obviously the HD25-LV does not do in real life, only in Optoma's marketing department's fantasy land). I would rather have too much light and have to back it off a bit than not enough though.
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post #7 of 16 Old 12-05-2013, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhammans View Post

I am leaning towards the HD25-LV due to the RF glasses option and extra light output. I have had good experience with BenQ in the past though on other products.

135" is where I'm going to have to go. My projection wall is about 195" (3" over 16) wide, and 9 feet tall. The room however has vaulted ceilings, so the projector mount actually has an 11' ceiling. If I were to put a 150" screen in there it would literally cover so much of the wall I am not sure I could get my speakers (Klipsch RF-83) and subwoofers (Klipsch RW-12D x 2) on either side of the screen. It would also be extremely tight vertically. I have the 135" mocked up on the wall right now with tape and I have 36.5" on either side of the screen for the speakers so that's a tight fit already. With the 150 I would only have 29" on either side, and I would have to take down the ceiling fan in order to raise the projector up high enough. It is a dedicated theater room and the fan isn't that big of a deal, but it's nice in the summer to keep the air moving.

Is the 1.1 gain 135" screen going to have enough gain? I want it to be bright for 3D, I'm guessing I will probably have to turn the brightness down for 2D if I get a 2.0 gain screen. It's difficult to calculate with the projectorcentral.com calculator because it is using 3200 lumens (which obviously the HD25-LV does not do in real life, only in Optoma's marketing department's fantasy land). I would rather have too much light and have to back it off a bit than not enough though.

In my case @ 119", with .95 gain, projector centrals calculator shows that I'm right at the edge of ambient operation. The screen is hella bright compared to the PLV-Z3 it replaced. Again, this is for standard AND 3D viewing. Centered on the wall, I currently have 25" between the screen and the wall, more than enough space for a RF-52, or 83 in your case on each side.

With the Optima HD25LV, @ 135", you are close to the brightest image the projector can throw. A high screen gain with that amount of light would have hot spotting (this bit from projector central helps). The Optima thread may have some good details on what types of screens are working best for that platform.



One more thing..
About the 3D glasses, I had concerns about going with DLP Link technology. If you get gold glasses like these it's not a concern. At all.
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post #8 of 16 Old 12-05-2013, 07:32 PM
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I have no hotspotting with my 110" 2.8 gain Dalite HP screen sitting 8-9 feet away. Because its ceiling mounted I'm not getting the full 2.8 gain. Its probably more like 2.0 or so. But I can't speak about hotspotting on other high power screens.
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post #9 of 16 Old 12-05-2013, 08:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by vidkidd View Post

In my case @ 119", with .95 gain, projector centrals calculator shows that I'm right at the edge of ambient operation. The screen is hella bright compared to the PLV-Z3 it replaced. Again, this is for standard AND 3D viewing. Centered on the wall, I currently have 25" between the screen and the wall, more than enough space for a RF-52, or 83 in your case on each side.

With the Optima HD25LV, @ 135", you are close to the brightest image the projector can throw. A high screen gain with that amount of light would have hot spotting (this bit from projector central helps). The Optima thread may have some good details on what types of screens are working best for that platform.



One more thing..
About the 3D glasses, I had concerns about going with DLP Link technology. If you get gold glasses like these it's not a concern. At all.

Vidkidd, thanks for taking the time to help. I think I will just go with the 135" 1.1 gain Elite Sable frame, since it is only $378 from Amazon. That's cheap enough that if I need to revisit a higher gain screen for adequate 3D performance it won't be a total loss. I do have enough wall to (literally) shoehorn the 150" screen in there, but I would have to remove the ceiling fan in order to get the projector high enough for the bigger screen. In order to do the short throw BenQ I would also have to remove the fan.

I was having trouble finding a screen that would be good for 2D and 3D performance - now after reading more I think I know why. It's a trade off one way or the other since the PJ is outputting much more light in 2D mode.
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post #10 of 16 Old 12-08-2013, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
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I ordered the HD25-LV, and screen. Should be here Wednesday smile.gif.
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post #11 of 16 Old 12-09-2013, 07:31 PM
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Thanks and congrats! Look forward to the update on the new toy. The HD25-LV was on the top of my list, but a duct drop down and the throw angle cut it from the running.
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post #12 of 16 Old 12-10-2013, 07:38 AM
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Personally, I'm using an HD25-LV with an Elite Screen Sable Frame CineWhite (1.1 gain) @ 135". My mounting distance as predicted by the calc is 14' 8" for that screen. The brightness has been more than adequate for even a small amount of ambient light and 3D looks excellent when the room is darkened(both using ECO mode). I use the EStar RF glasses and can confirm the are 100% exactly the same hardware and software as the Optoma branded glasses(I have both and there is no difference in quality at all).

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post #13 of 16 Old 12-10-2013, 08:42 AM
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Noticed this image compared the HD20-LV which is discontinued, instead of the HD25-LV. :x

Sony XBR-65X900E, Denon AVR-X2300W, Polk CS20 Center, Polk Monitor 75T Fronts, Polk TSI300 Rears, Power Sound Audio S1500 Subwoofer.
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post #14 of 16 Old 12-21-2013, 10:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry I haven't posted any updates for a while, but I still don't have my screen. The projector came relatively quickly from VisualApex (good service thus far), but I ordered the screen from B&H Photovideo to avoid Amazon sales tax... Elite dropships for B&H out of California, and my screen has been sitting in a UPS hub in Mesquite TX for the last ~9 days. Original ship date was 12/9, and it's still not here. UPS is processing newer packages first, and not getting the previously delayed ones out. So for now all I can do is sit on my hands and hope that UPS gets it here before Christmas. They are also holding my wife and daughters Christmas presents hostage...
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post #15 of 16 Old 12-21-2013, 10:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Personally, I'm using an HD25-LV with an Elite Screen Sable Frame CineWhite (1.1 gain) @ 135". My mounting distance as predicted by the calc is 14' 8" for that screen. The brightness has been more than adequate for even a small amount of ambient light and 3D looks excellent when the room is darkened(both using ECO mode). I use the EStar RF glasses and can confirm the are 100% exactly the same hardware and software as the Optoma branded glasses(I have both and there is no difference in quality at all).

That's exactly what I ordered, Sable Frame CineWhite in 135" smile.gif. I wanted to do 150" but just didn't feel comfortable trying to cram it all in there.
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post #16 of 16 Old 01-05-2014, 12:37 AM - Thread Starter
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I have everything!

UPS finally delivered the screen. I saw the UPS guy walking up to my house with a huge box so I went outside. He saw the puzzled look on my face and double checked the address with me. I told him yeah, I'm expecting something like this - but it was supposed to be held for pickup and was shipped on Dec 9th so I wasn't expecting to see him roll up with it. Of course no scans or out for delivery on the tracking info, it literally just showed up out of nowhere. Good thing I happened to be home. We got a pretty good laugh about how bad the local hub's sorting center is, at least he had a good sense of humor.

Anyhow, that was a couple of days ago and I now have the screen assembled & mounted. Due to my old HD70 having a different throw distance I pulled down the existing mount and swapped the HD25-LV over to it. I just put it back up today using the hardware from the previous installation and I'm not happy with the results at all!

Need some help from the experts here for sure!

I did not install the mount originally as it was already in my theater room when I bought the house 6-7 years ago. After looking for new mounts online it appears to either be a low end Peerless w/ telescoping square rod (inner/outer rod with a clamp to set height), or a very similar knock off. It was mounted to the ceiling with toggle bolts. Using my laser level I lined everything up to the center of the screen and re-installed the mount/projector with the toggle bolts.

The problems.

1. The mount is not sturdy at all. If I push on the projector there is an easy 2-3" of play in it as the mount is made of thin gauge metal and flexes/moves. It is very difficult to get the aim correct.
2. I need to drop the projector another 2" from the ceiling but don't have enough adjustment range. The image is slightly narrower at the top than the bottom. Am I interpreting this correctly?
3. My subwoofers (RW-12D which aren't even all that powerful) shake the living crap out of the projector. I never had this problem previously, so I think it's because telescoped the mount longer for the proper mounting height of the new projector/screen combo.

The solutions?

In looking online I've come to like the Chief products, and am considering the following:

Chief Rubber isolated plate
Chief CMA345

Chief RPA-U mount
Chief RPA-U

Chief 18-24" 1.5" NPT adjustable pole
Chief CMS018024


For less money they also have this ceiling plate which looks really nice, but I'm worried about vibration on the projector especially considering I'm planning on building 4 x 18" subwoofers DIY for the room later this year smile.gif.

http://www.chiefmfg.com/Products/CMS390
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