Rainbow Effect DLP, Can it Be Minimized? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 51 Old 10-27-2015, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post
Anything can cause a headache. I wouldn’t go by once viewing for 10 minutes. but if it happens every time DLP might not be for you. LCD is totally a different system and works completely different.

thanks!
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post #32 of 51 Old 10-29-2015, 04:57 AM
 
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I just tried a Vivitek H1186. It went back within an hour. The picture was great for the price. It really was. The headache it gave me was not. So while I certainly get why fans of DLP like the lack of convergence issues etc IMO none of these entry level projectors have GREAT contrast so I'll be looking for a Epson 2030 or 2040 for my non-critical viewing in the backyard etc. I'm just not interested in 'training my brain' to overcome the limitations of DLP tech. Life is too short. I'll still have my 40ES in the main theater for movies.
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post #33 of 51 Old 10-29-2015, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by AMartin56 View Post
I just tried a Vivitek H1186.

I wonder what wheel speed it operates at. (I don't see it mentioned on the spec sheet.)

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post #34 of 51 Old 10-29-2015, 08:13 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kreeturez View Post
I wonder what wheel speed it operates at. (I don't see it mentioned on the spec sheet.)
Don't quote me on this but I believe I've read elsewhere that it's a six segment color wheel that effectively runs a 3x speed.
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post #35 of 51 Old 10-29-2015, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by AMartin56 View Post
Don't quote me on this but I believe I've read elsewhere that it's a six segment color wheel that effectively runs a 3x speed.
If true, that'd be pretty slow: about half of what the Optoma HD50/BenQ HT1075 (and onwards) runs at. (The older W1070 runs at about the same for 24Hz sources).
That may explain why it's not listed on the spec sheet!

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post #36 of 51 Old 10-29-2015, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kreeturez View Post
If true, that'd be pretty slow: about half of what the Optoma HD50/BenQ HT1075 (and onwards) runs at. (The older W1070 runs at about the same for 24Hz sources).
That may explain why it's not listed on the spec sheet!
Most DLP manufactures do not list their CW speed. IF they do, it's just like their contrast or brightness specs - suspect!

It's like the wild wild west.
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post #37 of 51 Old 10-29-2015, 10:31 AM
 
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Originally Posted by dragonbud0 View Post
Most DLP manufactures do not list their CW speed. IF they do, it's just like their contrast or brightness specs - suspect!

It's like the wild wild west.
We'll I certainly don't wish to treat the 1186 unfairly just because I can't stand DLP. It would probably be fine for fans of that tech.
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post #38 of 51 Old 10-29-2015, 10:34 AM
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Rainbow Effect DLP, Can it Be Minimized?

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Originally Posted by AMartin56 View Post
We'll I certainly don't wish to treat the 1186 unfairly just because I can't stand DLP. It would probably be fine for fans of that tech.

Yes but remember that the level of rainbow visibility is indirectly proportional to the rate at which the image is produced on-screen: so color wheel speed makes a massive difference. (I'd know: I'm sensitive myself).

They're not all created equal.

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post #39 of 51 Old 10-29-2015, 10:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kreeturez View Post
Yes but remember that the level of rainbow visibility is indirectly proportional to the rate at which the image is produced on-screen: so color wheel speed makes a massive difference. (I'd know: I'm sensitive myself).

They're not all created equal.
Fair enough. Hopefully someone will be able to confirm it.

On an unrelated note I wish three chip DLP would become affordable. Although maybe you might as well be into LCoS at that point since you would now be dealing with convergence etc.
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post #40 of 51 Old 10-29-2015, 11:52 AM
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Well, Sony and Epson both claimed outrageous contrast ratios consistently. Looks like JVC is following that trend; the X900 specs from 150,000 to 1,500,000.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/JVC-DLA-X900R.htm
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post #41 of 51 Old 10-30-2015, 08:29 AM
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Just chiming in about the Vivitek 1186. I jut got one yesterday and played with it a little last night on a white wall. I could see RBE with the normal lamp mode and SFI night mode, but it was not super distracting. I am VERY sensitive to RBE and have seen DLPs that are unwatchable for me. After changing to Eco lamp mode and lowering brightness and contrast, the rainbows were pretty much gone. YMMV, but don't disregard the Vivitek without trying it first -of course, buy it from a place with a good return policy to be safe,
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post #42 of 51 Old 10-30-2015, 08:41 AM
 
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I have a colleague who can't watch the big DLP projector at work for more than 5 minutes before getting uncomfortable.

I'm curious about the color wheel speed when using the VGA input on the w1070. I can over-drive the analog signal to get close to 72hz (70hz) so I'm wondering if that will bring the CW speed back to 6x.

Dropping to 50hz is just not an option for me. I find 60hz irritatingly slow compared to the CRT days of yesteryear, and want to increase it rather than decrease it.

I never used to see rainbows but now I do on my w1070 for some reason, I really think my color wheel is out of sync because I used the projector for three years and only started getting rainbows visible (on white text only) after I sent in my projector for repairs (actually the color wheel's cable was broken) after the bulb blew and I tried repairing it myself.
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post #43 of 51 Old 05-17-2016, 12:34 PM
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Hi.
This is the 2nd thread that comes up with google when searching for ways to reduce the rainbow effect and and couldn't find one method here.. or nowhere to be honest. So this is a single post:

I have Acer's H5380BD, knew about the RBE before buying and omg, It was pretty damn annoying at first.
1. You CAN get used to it and learn to ignore them - they mostly appear when your eyes are MOVING between objects, never when they are focused on a steady spot. They become ignorable with any setting in time. The better the movie, the less that nasty effect will bother you.. although you will see them forever probably.
2. Experiment with gamma. I use "bright" setting and they are pretty much gone in the movies. For me it worked so well that I'm almost completely happy now and will not gonna return the device. On the other hand, I don't care about the colors being "true", so if you do care about that stuff then run away
3.Gaming is usually pretty safe and RBE-free. Well, a white spot on a black surface will always make the rainbow appear.
3. "Avoid cheapo DLP if possible" is probably the best advice still

***avoid single chip DLP when you get the projector primarly as a presentation/classroom tool. That would be a bad bad mistake.
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post #44 of 51 Old 05-18-2016, 02:30 PM
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I went looking for answers on the RBE when I got my Samsung DLP (240Hz long before people were really talking about frame rate.) back in 2008 and I could see it. I read an article by an eye doctor that said it's part of the "human condition". I know of "Persistence of Vision" that allows us, humans, to see "moving pictures" where animals can't, but also the RBE is part of that. I have my DLP Gamma at -3, Brightness 40, all black, contrast, dynamic range block settings off, which gave me over 15,000 hours on my first bulb and as time went on I was less and less aware of it the more I didn't think of it. But now with a new bulb, every so often when I look move my gaze across the screen, such as crossing the room or getting up from sitting and I see it out of the corner of my eye and it doesn't matter what the settings are at, the RBE is constant across the board. I even see it on my newer Mitsubishi LaserVue. It's the nature of the DLP beast and the limitations of the human eye.
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post #45 of 51 Old 05-19-2016, 08:26 AM
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RBE sensitivity varies significantly from person to person. A few are ultra-sensitive to it and there is no good solution other than to avoid single-chip DLP. That's why onesinglepost's advice above to avoid single-chip DLP for presentation/classroom use is so important. The larger the audience the more likely someone is to be so sensitive to rainbows that they can't stand to watch the presentation.
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post #46 of 51 Old 05-24-2016, 09:50 AM
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but isn´t that kind of same thing like knife in the leg. it´s not that bad, but why would you wanna get used to it as it still isn´t that healty.

Bigger the picture the easier it is to see. Atleas i like big picture and eyes tend to move, and when eye move you see it imidetly. and atleast my oppinnion is that it´s super annoying when ever you see the rbe.
you become a RBE huntter.

And i always get a feeling my face is melting after watching a little while.

Once read somwhere no matter how fast the color wheel it can´t be fast enough to be no RBE.
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post #47 of 51 Old 05-24-2016, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Vaan Janne View Post
but isn´t that kind of same thing like knife in the leg. it´s not that bad, but why would you wanna get used to it as it still isn´t that healty. ...
Not a good comparison. A knife in the leg will hurt everyone. Millions of people around the world watch DLP projection without in any way being hurt or even bothered by RBE. The world is full of minor annoyances that most are able to ignore and a few happen to be ultra-sensitive to.
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post #48 of 51 Old 05-24-2016, 10:03 AM
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Not a good comparison. A knife in the leg will hurt everyone. Millions of people around the world watch DLP projection without in any way being hurt or even bothered by RBE. The world is full of minor annoyances that most are able to ignore and a few happen to be ultra-sensitive to.
yes but if some people get head aces ect. how can you be shure it does not do anything negative to you ?

it´s like active 3D. is it really a good idea to watch a blinkin image, allthoug some don´t see it blinking.
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post #49 of 51 Old 05-24-2016, 02:48 PM
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By definition every movie made on film for 100 years was a "blinkin image." You know they used to call movies flicks because moving film flickered. So did everyone who ever saw a flickering movie on film suffer some kind of damage?

There are plenty of things in life that have been proven to damage people, and yet some people still do those things. I'd worry about all of those proven dangerous things first before imagining something dreadful about something based on no scientific evidence. This is, after all, the AV Science forum.
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post #50 of 51 Old 05-24-2016, 07:12 PM
 
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I'm sensitive to RBE but even if I wasn't I'd prefer a projector that ALL my guests could enjoy without worrying about if any of them will get a headache. I mean why bother with it if there are alternatives?
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post #51 of 51 Old 05-25-2016, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMartin56 View Post
I'm sensitive to RBE but even if I wasn't I'd prefer a projector that ALL my guests could enjoy without worrying about if any of them will get a headache. I mean why bother with it if there are alternatives?
The answer is obvious: Because some people prefer the look of a single-chip DLP image to three-panel LCD. Beyond that, I don't buy my projectors based on what others see but what I see with my own eyes. I don't have dozens of people over to my home for movie nights so I don't have to worry about the occasional person who has problems with rainbows. If I were buying a projector to use with large groups in business or social situations I'd choose LCD over DLP because the more people watching the more likely some might have problems with RBE. But my home is my castle and the king gets to choose the image he likes regardless of what anyone else may think.

P.S. I previously owned a DLP projector, currently own an LCD and am likely to go back to DLP for my next one.
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