SONY VPL-HW40ES : New SONY SXRD 1080P home theater projector - Page 6 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #151 of 5108 Old 05-20-2014, 07:16 AM
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Another review:

http://www.trustedreviews.com/sony-vpl-hw40es_Projector_review

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post #152 of 5108 Old 05-20-2014, 10:49 AM
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Also review of Panasonic

I think it has better value for money taking into account its lower price and it has pretty much everything you can wish for.

Do we even know the official contrast for Sony 40ES? I could not find it anywhere it is like hidden behind somehow...
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post #153 of 5108 Old 05-20-2014, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EugF View Post

Also review of Panasonic

I think it has better value for money taking into account its lower price and it has pretty much everything you can wish for.

Do we even know the official contrast for Sony 40ES? I could not find it anywhere it is like hidden behind somehow...


Native contrast or dynamic contrast?  And what do you define as "official"?  The made up number that manufacturers put on spec sheets?  I'm not sure having it missing is even a problem, since the number doesn't mean anything anyway.

 

In Geoffrey's review at Forbes, he measured the native contrast of the HW40 at 5151:1, which is quite good.  It's roughly the same as the Epson 5030.  The JVC LCOS projectors blow everything else out of the water though.  The Panasonic has the same LCDs as the Epson 5020, which being an older model should be lower in native contrast than the Epson 5030, the Sony HW40 and the Sony HW55.

 

As an example of the spec sheet not meaning anything, the Optoma HD91 has 500000:1 on its spec sheet, but based on the reviews the shadow detail isn't comparable to any of the projectors mentioned above.  The high contrast number comes from using dimmable LEDs as a light source.

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post #154 of 5108 Old 05-20-2014, 11:45 AM
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After calibration the PT-AE8000 was less bright than even the HW50ES. Also if I remember well Panasonic leave the HT projector business to put focus on the commercial projector market.

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post #155 of 5108 Old 05-20-2014, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post

Another review:

http://www.trustedreviews.com/sony-vpl-hw40es_Projector_review

Nice review - I'm guessing this (from page 2) is a mistake, though:
Quote:
The HW40ES manages to hold on to a surprising amount of brightness when showing dark scenes for a projector that relies on a dynamic contrast system (which closes and opens an iris to vary the amount of light the being allowed through the lens) to deliver its widest contrast range. And this fact means it’s also able to deliver more natural, punchy colours in dark scenes than you usually get at the affordable end of the projector market.

There isn't an actual Iris; so I'm guessing that's a mistake... and on the subject, it doesn't seem to have a content-sensitive lamp-power mode either (ala Smart-Eco); so I'm not sure where TrustedReviews gets that statement from wink.gif

That said, the fact that it gets away with such solid contrast (without the use of any form of dynamic brightness) is impressive indeed.

Anyone measure actual calibrated brightness in lumens? (Not that it looks like it needs much calibrating!!)

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post #156 of 5108 Old 05-20-2014, 01:00 PM
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Geoffrey measured 39.5 FL in his 102" 1.0 gain screen, so that puts something like 1200 lumens, which is a lot more than the 985 lumens that the HW50/HW55 put on calibrated mode.
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post #157 of 5108 Old 05-20-2014, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kreeturez View Post

Nice review - I'm guessing this (from page 2) is a mistake, though:
There isn't an actual Iris; so I'm guessing that's a mistake... and on the subject, it doesn't seem to have a content-sensitive lamp-power mode either (ala Smart-Eco); so I'm not sure where TrustedReviews gets that statement from wink.gif

That said, the fact that it gets away with such solid contrast (without the use of any form of dynamic brightness) is impressive indeed.

Anyone measure actual calibrated brightness in lumens? (Not that it looks like it needs much calibrating!!)

It is not a mistake. With that quote he is explaining what a Dynamic Iris system is. Read carefully before that quote: ...for a projector that relies on a dynamic contrast system (which closes and opens an iris to vary the amount of light the being allowed through the lens)

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post #158 of 5108 Old 05-20-2014, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post

It is not a mistake. With that quote he is explaining what a Dynamic Iris system is. Read carefully before that quote: ...for a projector that relies on a dynamic contrast system (which closes and opens an iris to vary the amount of light the being allowed through the lens)

Nope: take a look at the first page:
Quote:
Key Features: Full HD SXRD projector; Active 3D playback (no glasses included); Reality Creation picture processing; 1700 Lumens claimed brightness; Dynamic iris system

I'm sure they'll correct this shortly.

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post #159 of 5108 Old 05-20-2014, 01:40 PM
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OK that's mistake but to me he is very clear that there is no DI in this model. Even Sony is still showing in the Sony US website 100000:1 Dynamic contrast...

http://store.sony.com/economical-full-hd-home-theater-es-projector-with-reality-creation-3d-zid27-VPLHW40ES/cat-27-catid-All-Home-Theater-Projectors?_t=pfm%3Dcategory

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post #160 of 5108 Old 05-20-2014, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post

After calibration the PT-AE8000 was less bright than even the HW50ES. Also if I remember well Panasonic leave the HT projector business to put focus on the commercial projector market.


Panasonic, as far as I know and could find by a search, has not made any announcement that they intend to exit the home theater projector market.  What they did say, at CES 2014, is that they don't currently intend to build a 4K projector for the home market, because they consider 4K more appropriate for the professional market.

 

Quote from projectorreviews:

 

Rance Poehle, President of Panasonic Systems North American, said “while many companies are focused on 4K for the consumer, we are focused on bringing 4K technology to our business customers.” Among his discussion of 4K related products for business customers, he said there is a 4K projector coming to market later this year with pixel quadrupling that is “beyond 4K”.  - See more at: http://www.projectorreviews.com/technical_blog/ces-2014-new-productstechnologies/
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post #161 of 5108 Old 05-22-2014, 06:54 AM
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Weird, thanks for the catch. Not sure how that happened. It's up there now.

One of the best I've measured, in terms of input lag.

 

Hi Goeffrey,

 

Thank you for the review and the very interesting read.

You mention regarding the input lag:

"Input lag, or how long it takes for the projector to process and project an image, is about average: 60.4ms. If you switch Film Mode to Auto 2 or Off, that drops to an excellent 26.5ms."

 

Do you mean that regardless of picture mode, if Film Mode is OFF, input lag will fall to 26.5ms?

I'm asking because for example gaming on "Reference" mode, where FM is OFF feels more sluggish than gaming on "Game" mode where FM is also OFF.

Are there no other factors in determining the lag?

 

If there were an dynamic iris (like on the hw55es) would that have the potential to influence input lag?

 

Thanks!

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post #162 of 5108 Old 05-22-2014, 12:27 PM
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So, in other words, the HW40 gives exactly the same picture (colors, contrast, blacks, noise, motion flow) as the HW55 do with it's iris fixed full open? 


Display: SONY HW40 Projector, 106" Kingpin screen.
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post #163 of 5108 Old 05-22-2014, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ubikutz View Post

Hi Goeffrey,

Thank you for the review and the very interesting read.
You mention regarding the input lag:
"Input lag, or how long it takes for the projector to process and project an image, is about average: 60.4ms. If you switch Film Mode to Auto 2 or Off, that drops to an excellent 26.5ms."

Do you mean that regardless of picture mode, if Film Mode is OFF, input lag will fall to 26.5ms?
I'm asking because for example gaming on "Reference" mode, where FM is OFF feels more sluggish than gaming on "Game" mode where FM is also OFF.
Are there no other factors in determining the lag?

If there were an dynamic iris (like on the hw55es) would that have the potential to influence input lag?

Thanks!

In the Game picture mode it was 26.5, but when I turned FM back on, it went up to 60.4. So I went back to Cinema mode ( I'm forgetting the name of the mode, something like that), and turned FM Off (or Auto 2), it went from 60.4 to 26.5.

I'm not positive, and when I've asked Sony they've been reluctant to describe it, but I think Auto 1 is doing a 10:10 pulldown with 24fps content, while Auto 2 is doing a traditional 3:2 (or 2:2 with video). Off doesn't even do 3:2.

I don't think an iris would influence input lag. My guess is that would be slaved to the video.
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post #164 of 5108 Old 05-22-2014, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffreyMorrison View Post

In the Game picture mode it was 26.5, but when I turned FM back on, it went up to 60.4. So I went back to Cinema mode ( I'm forgetting the name of the mode, something like that), and turned FM Off (or Auto 2), it went from 60.4 to 26.5.

I'm not positive, and when I've asked Sony they've been reluctant to describe it, but I think Auto 1 is doing a 10:10 pulldown with 24fps content, while Auto 2 is doing a traditional 3:2 (or 2:2 with video). Off doesn't even do 3:2.

I don't think an iris would influence input lag. My guess is that would be slaved to the video.

Awesome news, thanks! smile.gif
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post #165 of 5108 Old 05-25-2014, 12:46 PM
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post #166 of 5108 Old 05-27-2014, 12:34 AM
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Im really interested in HW40 but Im a bit worried about not having any way of controlling the iris when/if I get a room with more light control. I have no problem being without a dynamic iris, because I would probably keep it off anyway. But,  

Im afraid that HW40 might be to bright in a really dark room. What do you all think?


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post #167 of 5108 Old 05-27-2014, 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by TMA1 View Post
 

Im really interested in HW40 but Im a bit worried about not having any way of controlling the iris when/if I get a room with more light control. I have no problem being without a dynamic iris, because I would probably keep it off anyway. But,  

Im afraid that HW40 might be to bright in a really dark room. What do you all think?

Yes, I was also wondering a similar thing concerning the HW40.

 

What is the relationship between the IRIS and the brightness control?

 

My understanding is that IRIS controls both black and white levels in the same time, while brightness controls only the white level?

 

Is it possible to adapt the HW40 to a brighter / dimmer environment using different presents by just manipulation of the lamp mode and brightness / contrast?

Or will that reduce the overall dynamic range?

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post #168 of 5108 Old 05-27-2014, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ubikutz View Post
 

Yes, I was also wondering a similar thing concerning the HW40.

 

What is the relationship between the IRIS and the brightness control?

 

My understanding is that IRIS controls both black and white levels in the same time, while brightness controls only the white level?

 

Is it possible to adapt the HW40 to a brighter / dimmer environment using different presents by just manipulation of the lamp mode and brightness / contrast?

Or will that reduce the overall dynamic range?


Using brightness/contrast to lower the image brightness will possibly lower dynamic range, because it will clip the blacks.  Some reduction of brightness can be achieved by using the color controls, much like purposely calibrating to a darker point, but going too far will dull the colors or make them too red.

 

One solution, if it truly is too bright, is to put an ND (Neutral Density) filter in front of the lens. I believe this projector has a 93 mm lens, for which a variety of ND filters are available. An ND filter will lower both the brights and the blacks equally, and can often increase the perception of contrast just like an iris. A decent ND filter is much less expensive than upgrading to the HW55.

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post #169 of 5108 Old 05-28-2014, 07:32 AM
 
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would this projector throw enough light for a nice 2D image on a 120" 1.0 screen?

I have beige walls, light carpet and dark brown ceiling. some windows, but have dark curtains over them. So "somewhat" light controlled room.
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post #170 of 5108 Old 05-28-2014, 08:04 AM
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would this projector throw enough light for a nice 2D image on a 120" 1.0 screen?

I have beige walls, light carpet and dark brown ceiling. some windows, but have dark curtains over them. So "somewhat" light controlled room.

Absolutely. It's a relatively bright projector; that's an average size screen by today's standards.

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post #171 of 5108 Old 05-28-2014, 08:10 AM
 
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Absolutely. It's a relatively bright projector; that's an average size screen by today's standards.

Thank you. That is VERY encouraging to hear!

Interesting. I see you have a Benq 1070. That was the projector I was looking at before I heard about this Sony.
Originally I was looking at the Sony 50 ES but that was too much $ for me. Decided to go "low end" with the Benq 1070 (also for the higher brightness), but this Sony 40ES may change my mind. I have enough Sony points to get this projector for $2k, which sounds like it has significantly better blacks than the Benq.

Are you looking to upgrade from the Benq to this Sony?
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post #172 of 5108 Old 05-28-2014, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Benkin View Post

would this projector throw enough light for a nice 2D image on a 120" 1.0 screen?

I just received an HW40ES. I have not run any calibration on it yet. My room is still under construction and I set up just enough sheetrock to enclose my in-wall speakers - there are still areas with framing.

I set everything up just to make sure everything works. The plan was to see the projector in action before finalizing on a screen size. That means I was projecting onto unfinished sheetrock - guessing that is less than a 1.0 gain. smile.gif

Projector is ceiling mounted about 16ft from the wall. I didn't adjust the zoom. Image size was roughly 120-130" wide. (That translates to 140-150" diagonal for a 16:9 image or >130-140" diagonal on a 2.35 image).

I tested a few blu-ray discs just to make sure things worked. About 20 minutes each of "Chronicles of Riddick" and "Moulin Rouge" (both 2D). Then I watched disc 1 of "The Hobbit" (Desolation of Smaug) in 3D.

This is my first projector setup and I have no point of reference.

Room could be considered "light controlled."


In my opinion, the light output from this unit was very good. Both 2D movies were certainly bright enough for me. While Moulin Rouge is a "dark" movie, there are some very bright colors as well - these popped and were very vivid.

At first I though the 3d was a _little_ on the dark side. However, the movie starts out with very dark scenes. As it progresses into some outdoor/daylight scenes, brightness was good.


Remember that my "screen" for this test is unfinished sheetrock. Also, the walls and ceiling (along with the subfloor material) are all white/off-white. The light from the projector image created quite a bit of ambient light from reflecting off these surfaces. As a result, the room was pretty well lit up... brighter than a movie theater. This didn't seem to effect picture quality/brightness, but I am sure darker surfaces would have made an improvment.

When other ambient light is introduced (lights on in adjoining areas where there is no sheetrock yet) picture quality (expectedly) drops off rapidly. Of course, that is expected and would be the case with any projector.

Once I finish the walls in some darker colors and get a proper screen (I will probably go with a 120" wide screen) I expect the already excellent picture will improve quite a bit.

IMO, I think this projector has plenty of light output for a 120" diagonal screen, especially for 2D images. My wife also came to watch for "Moulin Rouge" (her favorite movie) and about 20 minutes of "The Hobbit" (to see how 3D looked). She has no idea about light output/brightness issues, so wasn't predisposed to look for it. She was also very happy with the brightness of both the 2D and 3D images.

Even on a sheetrock screen with the screws and speaker grills visible, the picture was brighter and better than some theaters I have been to. smile.gif

Hope this helps.
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post #173 of 5108 Old 05-28-2014, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Benkin View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kreeturez View Post

Absolutely. It's a relatively bright projector; that's an average size screen by today's standards.

Thank you. That is VERY encouraging to hear!

Interesting. I see you have a Benq 1070. That was the projector I was looking at before I heard about this Sony.

Are you looking to upgrade from the Benq to this Sony?

That's the million-dollar (well, more like $1700! ;-) question.

In honestly I'm not - we're all extremely happy with with the BenQ. It's advantages over the Sony would be sharpness (DLP!) and somewhat better/lower-crosstalk 3D (which doesn't matter to everyone). And better fast-motion handling (DLP again!)

The Sony, OTOH, has somewhat better color accuracy (already a strong point with the BenQ - but even improved here), much better contrast (over double in real-world measurements) and better blacks.

Is that worth over 3x the price? I'm not sure. In a room like yours (painted more 'dark' than ours), it might be. In a more general-purpose room like ours (which has become more of a family hang-out - partly thanks to the projector - and therefore we don't like to keep it pitch dark - though it is actually light-controlled), those improvements might be a bit wasted.

But if you intend on using your already-suitable room as a dedicated theatre, and you can snag it at under 2k thanks to your Sony-points, it's definitely worth consideration.

I'd love to see a side-by-side shoutout between the two (taking into account their different price brackets) to see how they fare.

If you can sample both in your room (return policy?), it might make sense to do so to make a truly informed decision.

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post #174 of 5108 Old 05-28-2014, 12:58 PM
 
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Wow!
Benq sharper and handling motion better than the Sony?

that is an interesting comment that surprised me.

I might be willing to sacrifice some blacks for that!

The Benq actually has a slightly better throw ratio, and is a little brighter, than the Sony.

You are right about the cost. Even with my discount, the sony would be 2.5x more than Benq.

Hmm.

I might start with the Benq and see how it goes. The Benq seems so light and portable that I could use it in another room if I decide to get the Sony later.

For others, sorry if this seems to changing the focus on this thread, but this is the first time I have heard the Benq used in the same context as the 40es.

Now, back to our originally scheduled program!
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post #175 of 5108 Old 05-28-2014, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by kreeturez View Post

That's the million-dollar (well, more like $1700! ;-) question.

In honestly I'm not - we're all extremely happy with with the BenQ. It's advantages over the Sony would be sharpness (DLP!) and somewhat better/lower-crosstalk 3D (which doesn't matter to everyone). And better fast-motion handling (DLP again!)

The Sony, OTOH, has somewhat better color accuracy (already a strong point with the BenQ - but even improved here), much better contrast (over double in real-world measurements) and better blacks.
I loved the sharpness and motion handling of my previous DLP and I would love to get a new DLP but they all seems so loud nowdays. Back a few years I could have gotten a nearly silent DLP and I wish I had done so. Perhaps I should try to get a used BenQ W1000+ DLP instead of the Sony HW40ES.
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post #176 of 5108 Old 05-28-2014, 01:57 PM
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Again, I am in no position to compare, but the sony 40 was extremely quiet. Seating was 12' from screen and projector was 16' back on a 9' ceiling.

It was getting late and the wife wanted to sleep so I ended up turning down the movie volume to the point where I could not hear most of the dialog. Never noticed any sound from the projector. Even running in 3D it wa so quiet that's I never thought to check of fan noise.

Not sure how that compares to other, but is was quieter than I expected.
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post #177 of 5108 Old 05-28-2014, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by lordmetroid View Post

I loved the sharpness and motion handling of my previous DLP and I would love to get a new DLP but they all seems so loud nowdays. Back a few years I could have gotten a nearly silent DLP and I wish I had done so. Perhaps I should try to get a used BenQ W1000+ DLP instead of the Sony HW40ES.

I'm not sure if I'd recommend an old W1000+ (it's pretty old - and I believe it's actually a bit noisy in Normal lamp mode), but I see your point.
In many instances, operating noise is a function of chassis size: smaller projectors require more cooling due to less space for heat dissipation and smaller fans (which aren't anywhere near as efficient as larger fans and hence need to spin faster.)

The Sony has been measured as significantly quieter than both the W1070 and W1000+. Part of that being due to an increased chassis size. That said, assuming you don't get a rattling-fan W1070 (an old manufacturing defect that seemed to plague older units - I experienced it first-hand before RMA'ing mine), I wouldn't describe the replacement unit as distractingly noisy at all - especially in SmartEco lamp mode.

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post #178 of 5108 Old 05-28-2014, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Benkin View Post

Wow!
Benq sharper and handling motion better than the Sony?
Don't read to much into that.

The Sony has better optics, and always has. This could mean while the BenQ should be sharper since it is one-chip DLP, it may not actually appear any sharper because the optics aren't as good.

For that matter, the optics aren't nearly as good since Sony has far greater zoom range and has lens shift.

Likewise, motion from DLP has always been very good, but many people prefer the smoother look that LCoS can deliver. If CFI (Motion Flow) is on the Sony, that can help make the video look more precise, but may make it look more fake.

Remember, plasmas similarly have much better motion handling than LCD displays, but LCD displays are the technology which has really taken off and few complain about the motion handling of most quality LCD displays. Likewise, Sony is a quality display, it does a good job with motion, just a hair behind what DLP can deliver.

But, DLP is not delivering the black levels of LCoS. Not even close. That's a huge differentiator between the two technologies right now.

If your room is good, and you want to game, then the Sony is ideal. If your room is great, and you want to watch movies, get a JVC. If your room is mediocre/bad and you want to game and be more casual, the W1070 is a great choice.

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post #179 of 5108 Old 05-28-2014, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by kreeturez View Post

I'm not sure if I'd recommend an old W1000+ (it's pretty old - and I believe it's actually a bit noisy in Normal lamp mode), but I see your point.
In many instances, operating noise is a function of chassis size: smaller projectors require more cooling due to less space for heat dissipation and smaller fans (which aren't anywhere near as efficient as larger fans and hence need to spin faster.)

The Sony has been measured as significantly quieter than both the W1070 and W1000+. Part of that being due to an increased chassis size. That said, assuming you don't get a rattling-fan W1070 (an old manufacturing defect that seemed to plague older units - I experienced it first-hand before RMA'ing mine), I wouldn't describe the replacement unit as distractingly noisy at all - especially in SmartEco lamp mode.
I bought a BenQ W1070 on black friday last year and I couldn't stand the operating noise even in SmartEco lamp mode and I sold it for nearly full price only a few days afterwards.
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post #180 of 5108 Old 05-28-2014, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by lordmetroid View Post

I bought a BenQ W1070 on black friday last year and I couldn't stand the operating noise even in SmartEco lamp mode and I sold it for nearly full price only a few days afterwards.

You're sure yours wasn't a defective-fan unit (as I was referring to smile.gif )? My current (purpose-built) HTPC is actually louder than the projector... but my last W1070, as I said, had a dodgy fan, which was pretty common-an-occurrence at the time of purchase (and still happens on occasion even today... Though BenQ will accept a return-and-exchange for this reason.)

The W1000+ does a bit under 30dB (I've seen 28-30dB measured) in regular lamp mode; the W1070 does around 30-33dB in regular lamp mode: so there's a difference, but if you noticed a really big difference between the two, it's possible your W1070 was just plain defective.

That said - if you want super-silent projection, then yeah - you probably need to budget quite a bit higher. You could do one of the competing Optomas but they're not super-silent either (and don't do quite as good a job on PQ). Rather do this Sony if it's not going to break the bank. I doubt you'd be sorry.

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