SONY VPL-HW40ES : New SONY SXRD 1080P home theater projector - Page 8 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #211 of 5117 Old 05-30-2014, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mishari84 View Post

It is well known that HW55 has a soft lens, and you have to use Reality Creation to artificially make it sharp, which adds noise. That is a reason some people are selling their HW55. I guess you need to see it by your self to see if you can live with Reality Creation.
This doesn't sound like a lens issue, it sounds like a panel alignment issue or some other issue of the implementation of LCoS with Sony. If the lens is soft, nothing will 'correct' for it. It will just be soft all the time. But, if the panels aren't producing a crisp image, then using enhancements to sharpen that image, and that image appearing sharper on screen would be because the lens supports that added clarity and sharpness.

I am thinking that perhaps the best way to test this would be with the same lens in front of a DLP single chip, which is obviously a test we can't do, but there is still no doubt that the technological differences between 3-Chip technologies and single chip DLP will always produce an image that is sharper with the single chip technology.

Still 'softer' and 'soft' are very different things. I guess I should take a look at the 55ES and see how much softer it actually compares to the W1070.

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post #212 of 5117 Old 05-30-2014, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post


... If the lens is soft, nothing will 'correct' for it. It will just be soft all the time. But, if the panels aren't producing a crisp image, then using enhancements to sharpen that image, and that image appearing sharper on screen would be because the lens supports that added clarity and sharpness.

Agreed 100%. Since the lens is the last thing in the path, making changes earlier in the path should not correct for it.

 

While I'm posting, here are some YouTube videos with comparison shots...

 

VPL-HW40es vs PT-AE8000u:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ea5UZe7Ios

 

And a review in German (which I don't understand) of the HW40 that has many comparison shots, including a screen door comparison of the Sony versus the Epson 5030 (the Sony has way less pixel gap, being LCOS):

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1iqSaWWWb8

 

And, another review in both video and text form:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IigZSSRPliE

http://www.avforums.com/review/sony-vpl-hw40es-hw40-sxrd-3d-projector-review.10331

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post #213 of 5117 Old 05-30-2014, 01:00 PM
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post #214 of 5117 Old 05-30-2014, 03:22 PM
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HW40 - 1700 lumens calibrated vs. HW55 - 1178 lumens calibrated in the homecinema.fr reviews. Also they mentioned in the HW55 review, that it has worse cal. brightness than HW50 1700 lumens.
But german review says it is the same 1300 lumens calibrated as HW55.
I'm confused.

P.S. I've asked Gregory from homecinema.fr about calibrated brightness. Here is the reply:
Quote:
-Grégory, is it 1700 lumens calibrated vs. 1178 for the HW55? So it is much brighter calibrated than HW55?
-Yes exactly. The hw55 is less brighter but with a better native contrast.

Do not know how the germans did their cal and measurements to get only 1300 lumens.
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post #215 of 5117 Old 05-30-2014, 03:38 PM
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Mishari84,

 

Why do you change 1070 ?

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post #216 of 5117 Old 05-31-2014, 01:44 AM
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I found a few motion fluidity testing videos

Sony HW55ES: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wClv2J7ZhGk

Optoma HD91: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMBihjbQ2kk

BenQ W7500: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O046MKtHayE
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post #217 of 5117 Old 05-31-2014, 01:28 PM
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I'm not sure a 3-chip projector should look softer in most applications.

The science of human optics says that, at a seating distance of 3x screen heights, someone with 20/20 vision should be at the optimal distance for 1080p video.

In short, further away than that and you're not getting all the detail, closer and you may begin to be able to see pixels/lines/jaggies, etc.

If you're sat at 3x screen heights there should be no perceivable softness unless the R, G and B pixels are not aligned properly, and by some considerable margin. I think you can adjust alignment by about 1/10th a pixel on most 3 chip models - there's no way you should be able to see that at anything like a normal distance.

Of course, when setting up/reviewing projectors people perhaps look for artefacts and imperfections in conditions which are not real world. It's not that the picture won't look soft at all, just that it shouldn't at a reasonable viewing distance with real world material.

In theory, of course.

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post #218 of 5117 Old 06-01-2014, 02:32 AM
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I also posted this info in the thread of the VW55ES owners thread, but I could not find a owner thread for the the VW40ES yet.


It is not very difficult to create a DIY cable for the Sony/Expand AD025-RF-X1 RF emitter, without the need for the 'official' Sony convertor cable.
Also, you do not need to source any hard to find connectors!

Provided you have some basic solder skills and can hold a screwdriver, this saves you at least $75.
;-)

What you need:
- the emitter
- an spare LAN ethernet cable or the tools and parts to build one from scratch
- solder gun/station, solder and some shrink tube for isolation of the wires
- Philips head screwdriver
- a helping hand can be useful for the soldering part

Steps to take:

1. Prepare the emitter:
- open the emitter by unscrewing the 4 Philips head screws on the bottom
- remove the electronics board inside



2. Prepare the cable:
- cut the ethernet cable to the length you need or want and remove at least 30mm from the outer jacket of the cable
- take notice of the color of the cables in the RJ45 connector in the following positions and write them down: 1, 2, 3, 4, 7 and 8




- remove 5 to 10 mm of the isolation from the 6 wires mentioned in the previous step
- solder the following wires together: 1+2 (supply) and 3+7+8 (ground)
- tin the nr 4 wire (sync)

3. Solder the wires to the underside of the board of the emitter:
- the cable of the emitter is connected to the board
- put a piece of shrink tube over the wires before soldering them to the board
- solder the wires according picture:


- shield the wires with the shrink tube as shown on the picture above

4. Finishing touches:
- leave or remove the black cable from the board (I was unable to remove it without damaging it so I cut the cable off)
- put the board back in the housing of the emitter and close it again.

This was done by myself and confirmed working!
I found and used the following schematics for the Sony convertor cable at this thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/t/1499280/owners-thread-sony-hw55es/1050#post_24679927

So credits to replayreb!

I use the Samsung SSG-5100GB/XC 3D glasses with the Sony VW40ES projector and the Sony/Expand AD025-RF-X1 RF emitter.
I am very happy now…
:-D
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post #219 of 5117 Old 06-01-2014, 04:22 AM
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Funny, it was done 3 years ago in the HW30 thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/t/1353988/official-sony-vpl-hw30-a-es-owners-thread/1320#post_21105048
As long as the sony cable is stright, regulator not needed. But be carefull, SONY provides 12V supply, but all modern VESA 3D emitters is 5V
You need to be sure that your emitter supports 12V supply.
Quote:
Voltage: +5 VDC, +/- 10%. NOTE: Some existing hardware using similar connectors may provide +12
VDC; therefore, equipment designed to plug into the VESA Stereo Connector must be capable of
withstanding at least +12 VDC on this input, even though VESA-standard hosts will not provide more than
5.5 VDC per this specification.

Also, it is much cheaper to use EStar ESG6100 RF-3D Starter Kit. I've bought one from Amazon for $70 for both the glasses and emitter.
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post #220 of 5117 Old 06-01-2014, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DEHiCKA View Post

Funny, it was done 3 years ago in the HW30 thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/t/1353988/official-sony-vpl-hw30-a-es-owners-thread/1320#post_21105048
As long as the sony cable is stright, regulator not needed. But be carefull, SONY provides 12V supply, but all modern VESA 3D emitters is 5V
You need to be sure that your emitter supports 12V supply.
The convertor cable from Sony is straight, no electronics (regulator) inside. The Sony/Expand AD025-RF-X1 RF emitter is advertised by Sony as optional for both the HW40ES and HW55ES projectors on the product leaflets.

So, as long as you connect the correct wires to the correct inputs, you should be fine!
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post #221 of 5117 Old 06-01-2014, 09:20 AM
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Sony/Expand AD025-RF-X1 RF is fine for sure.
But it is expensive, and hard to buy.

You can cut $70 for the cable and $200 more for the emitter/galsses smile.gif
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post #222 of 5117 Old 06-01-2014, 11:26 AM
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In Europe it is available from multiple sources, priced around 150 Euro. And yes, this is expensive.
That is also why I wanted to share the possibility to save $75 for the adapter cable.
biggrin.gif

The EStar ESG6100 RF-3D Starter Kit is not available in Europe though and, I believe, just compatible with itself or the Optoma Z2100 system.
Or were you able to use different brands of RF 3D glasses?
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post #223 of 5117 Old 06-01-2014, 12:58 PM
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$275 in US and not avalable $450 in Russia smile.gif
With Estar Kit you will stuck with Estar/Optoma glasses, but they are pretty cheap and proven good quality.
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post #224 of 5117 Old 06-03-2014, 04:26 PM
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It still seems like there is a lacking of people directly comparing this to the Epson 5030 which seems like the most direct competition to it.

The black levels on this seem to be getting some complaints, but are they warranted considering the price tag? Are they that much worse than the similarly priced 5030 or Panasonic AE8000? What about overall video quality compared to those models? Or perhaps the BenQ W7500?

This model seems like it is a solid unit, but if it doesn't match up, and actually perform better than the Epson 5030, then why bother other than to have Sony instead of Epson?

I think it's great that Sony is bringing pricing down on their LCoS offering, but if they lose all that quality on the ride down, then I'm not interested and will stick with JVC.

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post #225 of 5117 Old 06-03-2014, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

It still seems like there is a lacking of people directly comparing this to the Epson 5030 which seems like the most direct competition to it.

The black levels on this seem to be getting some complaints, but are they warranted considering the price tag? Are they that much worse than the similarly priced 5030 or Panasonic AE8000? What about overall video quality compared to those models? Or perhaps the BenQ W7500?

This model seems like it is a solid unit, but if it doesn't match up, and actually perform better than the Epson 5030, then why bother other than to have Sony instead of Epson?

I think it's great that Sony is bringing pricing down on their LCoS offering, but if they lose all that quality on the ride down, then I'm not interested and will stick with JVC.


This does have specific advantages over the Epson, including much lower fan noise and significantly less screen door (which admittedly will only affect people sitting very close to the screen).  But it also has disadvantages. I don't think this is a good choice for 3D, because using RF is either expensive or requires DIY, and the HW55 owners thread indicates there are range problems with IR. Considering the IR glasses aren't even included, I'd really only recommend this as a 2D projector.

 

I think the main advantage over the JVC is brightness. In a dark cave application, the JVC is probably a better choice.

 

BTW, I've decided to purchase one of these. I should have it late next week. I don't have anything current to compare it to, but I'm sure I'll give some impressions.

 

Cheers...

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post #226 of 5117 Old 06-03-2014, 07:24 PM
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I just got the VPL-HW40ES yesterday.

Tonight, we had a 3D session with The Hobbit part II and the Sony PS3 3D glasses (9.95$CND) at bestbuy and futureshop.

The glasses are currently discontinued on the Sony site, I do not know why.
Listed for 70$ at http://us.playstation.com/ps3/accessories/sony-playstation-3d-glasses-ps3.html and 19$ at http://store.sony.com/playstation-3d-glasses-active-shutter-zid27-PS398079/cat-27-catid-EOL-PlayStation-3. what a strange world.

The PS3 glasses are IR. I was able to go to the other room and get something from the fridge and come back without lost of sync. I tried to block the middle of the glasses from an IR signal without luck.

The technical behind the 3D just work perfectly with the PS3 IR glasses. Maybe other IR glasses are not good at syncing, but base on the experience I had with the PS3 glasses I cannot see any reason to upgrade to RF with the attached cost.

For the picture, well I am coming from a Benq W20000 (2008) DLP and so far it seems very different. It seems less focused than the W20k. Also, the VPL-HW40ES menu always looks out of focus.
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post #227 of 5117 Old 06-03-2014, 10:38 PM
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Quote:

Originally Posted by michdub View Post

The PS3 glasses are IR. I was able to go to the other room and get something from the fridge and come back without lost of sync. I tried to block the middle of the glasses from an IR signal without luck.

The technical behind the 3D just work perfectly with the PS3 IR glasses. Maybe other IR glasses are not good at syncing, but base on the experience I had with the PS3 glasses I cannot see any reason to upgrade to RF with the attached cost.
 

 

That's good news.  I was worried about the IR glasses because of some comments on the HW55 thread. It's possible that the IR has been improved, or also possible that the people complaining aren't using Sony glasses.

 

I'll keep an eye out for the $20 playstation glasses to be in stock. My interest in 3D is minimal, but having some would be good just in case I want to try it.

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post #228 of 5117 Old 06-04-2014, 12:00 AM
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I had similar good experience with the HW40 and 3D viewing. Yes, the Playstation 3D glasses do feel bulky, especially when watching a long movie. However, I had no quality or sync issues.

Reading the comments about IR glasses in general, I explored the RF option. Availability and simplicity of that option seem to depend on where you live. In Europe, there appears to be a Sony option. In the US, the Sony RF remitter is not available from Sony directly. It is available from Xpand - which looks to be the same unit Sony is selling elsewhere.

Ordering from the Xpand site is not very easy, but they do respond quickly to emails. They told me the RF product is not available in distribution or on their website yet, but you can still order it directly. Just send them an email. The emitter is $195US directly from Xpand. You also need the RJ-45-> Vesa cable. Sony is supposed to sell one for $75, but I can't find it on their site. Xpand told me they would make one for me for about $45US.

It is good to have the option, but at that price I decided to try out the IR 3D first. Even the Xpand agreed that is the way to go. From the email they sent me: "Yes, if you have built in IR emitter, I would suggest you go for it, until you really need RF. RF is only incrementally better." Nice to see some honesty for a change.
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post #229 of 5117 Old 06-04-2014, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michdub View Post

I just got the VPL-HW40ES yesterday.

Tonight, we had a 3D session with The Hobbit part II and the Sony PS3 3D glasses (9.95$CND) at bestbuy and futureshop.

The glasses are currently discontinued on the Sony site, I do not know why.
Listed for 70$ at http://us.playstation.com/ps3/accessories/sony-playstation-3d-glasses-ps3.html and 19$ at http://store.sony.com/playstation-3d-glasses-active-shutter-zid27-PS398079/cat-27-catid-EOL-PlayStation-3. what a strange world.

The PS3 glasses are IR. I was able to go to the other room and get something from the fridge and come back without lost of sync. I tried to block the middle of the glasses from an IR signal without luck.

The technical behind the 3D just work perfectly with the PS3 IR glasses. Maybe other IR glasses are not good at syncing, but base on the experience I had with the PS3 glasses I cannot see any reason to upgrade to RF with the attached cost.

For the picture, well I am coming from a Benq W20000 (2008) DLP and so far it seems very different. It seems less focused than the W20k. Also, the VPL-HW40ES menu always looks out of focus.

They quote $70 but the buy link leads you to Amazon and the price fluctuates around $20.
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post #230 of 5117 Old 06-04-2014, 11:02 AM
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For you guys that own this projector, do you feel this PJ would be better than the epson Epson 5030 and the JVC RS46 for both movies and gaming? This will not go into a living room, it will be in a dark proprietary home theater room.

I'm going from an Acer H6510BD so any of these three will be quite the upgrade nonetheless, I just want the best bang for my buck!

Also, what's this whole "soft focus" and out of focus talk? I don't want to have a projector that's not sharp. Also, how are the black levels on this bad boy?

Aerial Acoustics/Anthem/JL Audio/Linn/Sony/Theta Digital
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post #231 of 5117 Old 06-04-2014, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michdub View Post

For the picture, well I am coming from a Benq W20000 (2008) DLP and so far it seems very different. It seems less focused than the W20k. Also, the VPL-HW40ES menu always looks out of focus.
Does it have better blacks than W20000? I have Benq W5000 and looking for upgrade to HW40/HW55 and black level is my primary concern.
It's barely accepatable for me on W5000 with manual iris is fully closed and dynamic black is on.
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post #232 of 5117 Old 06-04-2014, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinlg View Post

For you guys that own this projector, do you feel this PJ would be better than the epson Epson 5030 and the JVC RS46 for both movies and gaming? This will not go into a living room, it will be in a dark proprietary home theater room.

I'm going from an Acer H6510BD so any of these three will be quite the upgrade nonetheless, I just want the best bang for my buck!

Also, what's this whole "soft focus" and out of focus talk? I don't want to have a projector that's not sharp. Also, how are the black levels on this bad boy?

II don't think either of those models are recommended for gaming.
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post #233 of 5117 Old 06-04-2014, 01:43 PM
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II don't think either of those models are recommended for gaming.


The Epson 5030 has a "fast video processing mode" which is essentially the same as a game mode, and brings the latency down to about 27 ms or so (based on the ProjectorCentral review).  It should be fine for gaming.

 

EDIT: Just re-read the projector central review, and it is 37 ms, not 27.  Still not too bad though.

 

As mentioned in Geoffrey's review, the HW40 is about 26 ms if you turn off the cinema pulldown.

 

I haven't read any latency tests for the JVC, but you may be correct that it's not an especially good choice for gaming.

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post #234 of 5117 Old 06-04-2014, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post

The black levels on this seem to be getting some complaints, but are they warranted considering the price tag? Are they that much worse than the similarly priced 5030 or Panasonic AE8000? What about overall video quality compared to those models? Or perhaps the BenQ W7500?

 

I've seen it but only compared it to JVC X35 and Epson TW7200. To my understanding the it should have the same black levels as the HW55. 

When I compared it to X35 there was a diference yes but not far behind. Where have you heard/read complaints on the black level?


Display: SONY HW40 Projector, 106" Kingpin screen.
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post #235 of 5117 Old 06-04-2014, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barleyguy View Post


The Epson 5030 has a "fast video processing mode" which is essentially the same as a game mode, and brings the latency down to about 27 ms or so (based on the ProjectorCentral review).  It should be fine for gaming.

As mentioned in Geoffrey's review, the HW40 is about 26 ms if you turn off the cinema pulldown.

I haven't read any latency tests for the JVC, but you may be correct that it's not an especially good choice for gaming.

Thanks for the correction
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post #236 of 5117 Old 06-04-2014, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonyad View Post

II don't think either of those models are recommended for gaming.

So neither the 40es and the epson are good for gaming?
Quote:
Originally Posted by barleyguy View Post


The Epson 5030 has a "fast video processing mode" which is essentially the same as a game mode, and brings the latency down to about 27 ms or so (based on the ProjectorCentral review).  It should be fine for gaming.

EDIT: Just re-read the projector central review, and it is 37 ms, not 27.  Still not too bad though.

As mentioned in Geoffrey's review, the HW40 is about 26 ms if you turn off the cinema pulldown.

I haven't read any latency tests for the JVC, but you may be correct that it's not an especially good choice for gaming.

So which projector would you recommend then between the epson and the sony? I will really only game 30% of the time so I can just stick to my plasma for gaming and just get a proper movie-only projector

Aerial Acoustics/Anthem/JL Audio/Linn/Sony/Theta Digital
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post #237 of 5117 Old 06-04-2014, 06:32 PM
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The 40es is definitely good for gaming. It's the JVC that has movies specifically as its forte.
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post #238 of 5117 Old 06-04-2014, 06:37 PM
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Also from what I've gathered, the JVC is a benefit for those with a fully treated, no ambient light, no reflection bat cave.
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post #239 of 5117 Old 06-04-2014, 06:44 PM
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Whats the uniformity on the HW40ES like? if you had a full screen white or grey on do you see any change in brightness or any uniformity problems?
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post #240 of 5117 Old 06-05-2014, 01:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMA1 View Post

To my understanding the it should have the same black levels as the HW55. 
When I compared it to X35 there was a diference yes but not far behind. Where have you heard/read complaints on the black level?
http://www.trustedreviews.com/sony-vpl-hw40es_Projector_review

It lacks dynamic iris and HW55 have better native contrast. According to PJRC reviews: 5185:1 vs 8966:1 native and up to 45000:1 with dynamic iris HW55.
In a well light/reflection controlled room blacks must be better with the HW55
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