Quote:
Originally Posted by siya /t/1532790/dear-manufacturers#post_24748197
I'm actually a components engineer and I know precisely how much each component costs. I base my requests on the fact that I've worked in the pro audio realm for over 20 years and seen first hand many 'brands' who's products were once niche and they have adapted to surface mount manufacturing and the 'digital age'. I see alot of similarities between this industry and pro audio and I'm specifically talking about the $500-$1000 range of projectors.
Look, we've all seen the death of analog over the years, and the associated drop in price, but a good studio still costs a fair bit of cash to set up, and microphones are still analog devices at the front end. A good set of speakers still costs thousands of dollars, etc. Meanwhile, businesses with excellent quality are ditching their products, going belly up, or just changing strategies. Quality takes the wayside to profitability every day of the week because people, by their nature, are cheap, and this isn't good for CEMs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by siya /t/1532790/dear-manufacturers#post_24748197
With all due respect, it is achievable and I also have extensive knowledge on R&D costs as it's what I've been doing for many years. Most components used in these cheaper format projectors are OEM components, besides a few modules such as the LED modules. When you are designing a product, the first thing you start with is a budget and time schedule. The component technology available on the market today, can easily facilitate my requests at a price range of $500-1000, this is a fact.
You think they don't start with a time, schedule, feature set, etc.? What do you think LG or Optoma does then?
I believe, rather strongly, that LG is about to find out that their 80/85U 1080p model gets hammered for not having 3D, and will be under utilized for their built in applications and additional features that many people don't want to pay for, while another group will praise them for all those features because people use them all the time. So, the bottom line is that people want as many features as can be packed in for the money.
For the money.
It's fine to make claims about $500-$1,000 and calling it 'fact', but in fact, you don't know if it can be done and still be acceptably profitably for anyone to deliver on this.
We do know that to build a media streaming player it's about $50-$100 end user cost for that product to be out and to be profitable. Roku, AppleTV, and others fit this mold. Incorporating that into any projector is an added cost in that range for every projector manufacturer at least.
We see decent projectors come out as full size units for about $800, but no smart features, and no LED technology in them, and those LED panels are typically the latest and greatest available to them. I'm not sure what corners will have to be cut to get to that next level of product that you desire.
Quote:
Originally Posted by siya /t/1532790/dear-manufacturers#post_24748197
The problem is that the leading manufacturers of this tecnnology are currently the Japanese & Koreans. Having worked with them for over two decades in pro audio, I can tell you first hand that the reason we are not seeing these developments are more to do with how it may impact their astronomical sales of TV's than with the technology not being available.
While you may believe that everyone wants to swap out all their TVs with projectors, I'm feeling like this probably isn't the case. Especially considering the true headaches involved with front projection. As for the 'astronomical sales of TV's' maybe you should talk to Pioneer, or Panasonic about it... maybe even Sony. There are a limited handful of companies making good money on TV sales, and they are limited.
As far as I know, Optoma, InFocus, and Qumi, or AAXA aren't in the TV business. They are projector manufacturers and they want to outsell each other.
Since LG released the 1080p, 1,000 lumen model with Smart features, I'm betting we will see a step up from that from the competition right? Yeah, probably not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by siya /t/1532790/dear-manufacturers#post_24748197
It's called drip feeding, the whatever is making them the most money, is part of the problem.
Drip feeding and future products are always part of a business equation and pissing and moaning about it as consumers doesn't change it. I wouldn't be surprised if the next 3-4 iPhone models are mostly designed already, but that doesn't mean that companies aren't still waiting on certain technologies to come along and have realistic pricing. Kind of like getting HDBT into products. It's a phenomenal tech that makes a ton of sense, but adds to much to the price to implement in products, so it isn't added. It's fine to say the technology IS there, but when that statement doesn't reflect reality, then it doesn't come to be. Remember, when Blu-ray Disc came to market most TVs couldn't process 1080p video and most computers were terrible with that resolution. It does take time for technology to catch up to dreams.
Quote:
Originally Posted by siya /t/1532790/dear-manufacturers#post_24748197
I agree, we're not talking about the very top end of the market but if consumers want to have confidence in these prdducts, there needs to be more effort made educating people and giving consumers what they actually need rather than making swiss army knife products.
Most consumers have no idea what they need, or what they want. They want 10,000+ lumen projectors that look good during the daytime, have silent fans, and adjust for nighttime viewing as appropriate on the fly. They want projectors to project black so that black levels are always perfect, they want it to work from 50' from their 80" screen, or 3 feet from their 200" screen. Consumers are all over the place and the product out now isn't a swiss army knife, it's a 'average'. It picks some basic realities about homes and then fits that profile as best as it can. That's exactly why the W1070 is so highly regarded. It fits more situations than almost any other projector on the market and does so for a good price and with excellent overall quality. In comparison, if they made it more of a swiss army knife of a product and added serious lens shift and zoom range from a projector like the 8350, and made it as quiet as many other projectors, put in the $99 replacement lamps that Epson uses on their 2030 model, and perhaps added the Smart features from the LG PF85U, or a LED engine that doesn't exist which delivers over 1,500 real world lumens, then it would be more popular than it is already.
I would say that the swiss army projector is the goal of most manufacturers. They want black levels and quality that puts them ahead of everyone else, and the hold up is not them, but the technologies which are required to make it all happen.
I think asking for it isn't wrong. Expecting it in 10... maybe 5 years... isn't unreasonable. But the technology doesn't move because we ask, it moves because it always moves.
Your requests mirrors those same requests I've read five, even ten years ago. Someone always stands up and 'demands' it, and eventually it all comes to pass, but it's not a quick journey. It's going to be a long slow road getting there. It certainly won't be easy.