Epson 5030UB vs Sony VPL-HW40ES, anyone else wrestling? - Page 15 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #421 of 1059 Old 04-21-2015, 05:00 AM
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I know that pictures don't mean much, and it's hard to tell real PQ using pictures, but - my Epson gave me this. My Sony does not provide me this type of black on the main image. So the increased contrast goes to waste, in my opinion.


Ignore the black bars at top/bottom, those have masking on them and will always be pitch black.


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post #422 of 1059 Old 04-21-2015, 06:27 AM
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JJ- I had convinced myself that I was going to buy the Sony HW40 but now am seriously reconsidering due to your assessment of the black level on the Sony. I currently have several plasma televisions in our house, Pioneer and Panasonic, and all of them have excellent black levels which I also lean toward favoring.

My eyeballs will be about 11-12 feet away from a 10 ft wide 16 x 9 screen. The projector will sit in the wall, in a rectangle, with the body resting on a shelf that will protrude into the adjacent room and will be approximately 7 feet off the ground and about 2 feet behind the couch listening position.

Do I need to worry about SDE or audible fan noise in these conditions?

It sounds like the Epson 5030 is the way for me to go, but I'm concerned of the lack of shadow detail they say the 5030 lacks.

Thoughts?
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post #423 of 1059 Old 04-21-2015, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by acribb View Post
JJ- I had convinced myself that I was going to buy the Sony HW40 but now am seriously reconsidering due to your assessment of the black level on the Sony. I currently have several plasma televisions in our house, Pioneer and Panasonic, and all of them have excellent black levels which I also lean toward favoring.

My eyeballs will be about 11-12 feet away from a 10 ft wide 16 x 9 screen. The projector will sit in the wall, in a rectangle, with the body resting on a shelf that will protrude into the adjacent room and will be approximately 7 feet off the ground and about 2 feet behind the couch listening position.

Do I need to worry about SDE or audible fan noise in these conditions?

It sounds like the Epson 5030 is the way for me to go, but I'm concerned of the lack of shadow detail they say the 5030 lacks.

Thoughts?
I think it really depends on the room. I had both in a moderately light controlled room and preferred the Sony. And I am not a fan boy of either as I used to own an Epson. I saw only marginal difference in black level and then only when the room was very dark. With even moderate ambient light, most will tell you that black level differences are further minimized. I can't speak to the experience of the poster here except to say that it was not what I saw. Still I bought the German filter and that improved things even more.
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post #424 of 1059 Old 04-21-2015, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by acribb View Post
JJ- I had convinced myself that I was going to buy the Sony HW40 but now am seriously reconsidering due to your assessment of the black level on the Sony. I currently have several plasma televisions in our house, Pioneer and Panasonic, and all of them have excellent black levels which I also lean toward favoring.

My eyeballs will be about 11-12 feet away from a 10 ft wide 16 x 9 screen. The projector will sit in the wall, in a rectangle, with the body resting on a shelf that will protrude into the adjacent room and will be approximately 7 feet off the ground and about 2 feet behind the couch listening position.

Do I need to worry about SDE or audible fan noise in these conditions?

It sounds like the Epson 5030 is the way for me to go, but I'm concerned of the lack of shadow detail they say the 5030 lacks.

Thoughts?
Cribb, that's my problem. I spent 6 years in front of Kuros and ZTs combined, so I'm used to that and expect it. However, you must also consider my viewing environment - skating rink floor and white walls, windows, white blinds, etc.

But I can safely say that you will not have to worry about SDE or fan noise. My projector is three feet above my head, four feet behind it and I can't hear it at all. SDE is unnoticeable unless you strain for it, not obvious like the Epson.

The Sony has a better contrast, so scenes of max black/max white do look a little better than the Epson, but in dark scenes the Sony is no match for the Epson's blacks. The Sony's blacks aren't on par with the Epsons, regardless - and this comment is echoed on the forum and on reviews. "Close, but not equal" is about as positive as it gets. The Epsons blacks were acceptable to me as a former plasma owner, and were non-distracting.
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post #425 of 1059 Old 04-21-2015, 07:51 AM
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Question for you guys on the SDE of the 5030. How does one mitigate the effects of this? my PJ will be mounted at about 17' from lens to screen. seating will be 13-14ft. I believe it's usually when you're sitting close? but does where the PJ is mounted affect this too?


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post #426 of 1059 Old 04-21-2015, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by JJxiv1215 View Post
I know that pictures don't mean much, and it's hard to tell real PQ using pictures, but - my Epson gave me this. My Sony does not provide me this type of black on the main image. So the increased contrast goes to waste, in my opinion.

Ignore the black bars at top/bottom, those have masking on them and will always be pitch black.
Hmmm if the bars are masked then you shouldn't have poor blacks in the image. Yes the SONY lacks the automatic iris of the 5030 and doesn't approach those blacks, but it provides adequate depth in blacks to enjoy darker movies. Maybe try using Gamma corrections to 2.4 if the room won't allow other changes.

Also with your ambient conditions you'll have to be way more aggressive than an N9 grey. I'd try that next after the higher gamma setting. You're mounted close with a very reasonable-sized screen to have any significant loss of brightness by going that route.

Here's all ambient lights on.. the actual image looked better than the crappy picture I took..



================================================== ======
Ok.... ignore all that.. saw your thread here stating your decision to abandon FP.... you're dead to us here in lamp land..

Insert pithy comment here

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Originally Posted by ChadS13TDI View Post
Question for you guys on the SDE of the 5030. How does one mitigate the effects of this? my PJ will be mounted at about 17' from lens to screen. seating will be 13-14ft. I believe it's usually when you're sitting close? but does where the PJ is mounted affect this too?


thanks.

Sit further away from it or take off your glasses if you wear them. Viewing distance is all that matters with SDE...throw distance doesn't. You may not see SDE from 13 feet but some people might.
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post #428 of 1059 Old 04-21-2015, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by RiverSide View Post
\
Ok.... ignore all that.. saw your thread here stating your decision to abandon FP.... you're dead to us here in lamp land..

Hey! I'm just doing my research and covering all my bases.


My plan of attack is:


1. Pray this filter works
2. Build N7 or N8 screen
3. Go LED
4. Move
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post #429 of 1059 Old 04-21-2015, 10:35 AM
 
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Originally Posted by acribb View Post
JJ- I had convinced myself that I was going to buy the Sony HW40 but now am seriously reconsidering due to your assessment of the black level on the Sony. I currently have several plasma televisions in our house, Pioneer and Panasonic, and all of them have excellent black levels which I also lean toward favoring.

My eyeballs will be about 11-12 feet away from a 10 ft wide 16 x 9 screen. The projector will sit in the wall, in a rectangle, with the body resting on a shelf that will protrude into the adjacent room and will be approximately 7 feet off the ground and about 2 feet behind the couch listening position.

Do I need to worry about SDE or audible fan noise in these conditions?

It sounds like the Epson 5030 is the way for me to go, but I'm concerned of the lack of shadow detail they say the 5030 lacks.

Thoughts?
I really think you should judge for yourself. The Sony is very popular...so is the Epson. Hard to go wrong with either, but personally I'm a fan of LCoS and wouldn't pay the same for LCD tech. While as mentioned a picture doesn't tell the whole story the black level on my Sony looks very similar to how that Episode VII trailer looks. I thought the black level while watching Gravity last night was very pleasing to watch in a 'medium room' . I imagine it will be even better when I can upgrade the room.
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post #430 of 1059 Old 04-21-2015, 10:59 AM
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I wouldn't want to use the 5030 without the iris. Even with the iris there is occasionally a bit of "greyishness" in some very dark scenes. So that would pretty much rule out the Sony HW40 for me.
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post #431 of 1059 Old 04-21-2015, 11:17 AM
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How about the 5025? I don't see many comments on that PJ, and the dedicated thread is equally sparse.
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post #432 of 1059 Old 04-21-2015, 12:27 PM
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Seems like the 5025 would be just as good. *Maybe* with slightly lower brightness. Would be nice to know exactly what they did change to cause the brightness rating to drop. I went ahead and got the 5030 as I wanted every lumen I could get, but there's nothing that says the 5025 even has less lumens in one of the better picture modes. That rating comes from the brightest torch mode which isn't even useful IMO.
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post #433 of 1059 Old 04-21-2015, 12:48 PM
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My biggest issue with the Sony 40es are the black bars. Hate them. Which is why I'm in the process of building masking panels so that problem is "solved". I'm sure they would bother me on the Epson too.

I would very much like to try a filter though. I'd really like to try this "german filter" but It seems we can't get it stateside.

Everyone has their limits and things they can't stand. For me, I hate SDE so the Epson is dead in the water. My projector is about 5' away from my main seating chair and about 2' above my head if I sit in the back. With the unit on "low lamp", which is very bright in my light controlled room on a 120" screen, I can not hear it sitting 2' below it unless the audio is off and I'm listening very closely. It's VERY quiet. My previous DLP projector, which was 9 years old, was very loud so a quiet projector was a must for me as well.

For SDE on the Sony, I can only see it if I'm about 12-18" away from the screen and looking very had for it. It basically doesn't exist.
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Originally Posted by AMartin56 View Post
Sit further away from it or take off your glasses if you wear them. Viewing distance is all that matters with SDE...throw distance doesn't. You may not see SDE from 13 feet but some people might.


I guess I will have to just wait and see. I don't wear glasses and I'm sure it will be ok. just hope the wife doesn't notice anything

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post #435 of 1059 Old 04-21-2015, 12:53 PM
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Seems like the 5025 would be just as good. *Maybe* with slightly lower brightness. Would be nice to know exactly what they did change to cause the brightness rating to drop. I went ahead and got the 5030 as I wanted every lumen I could get, but there's nothing that says the 5025 even has less lumens in one of the better picture modes. That rating comes from the brightest torch mode which isn't even useful IMO.
I went with the 5025, I won't be able to offer a comparison to the 5030 but from every comment and review I've seen it is pretty much a 5030 with a few cosmetic tweaks and no 3d glasses. They may have claimed less lumens in the spec sheet but a few people that have done side by sides or had both have not be able to tell a difference in brightness.
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post #436 of 1059 Old 04-21-2015, 12:55 PM
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Gaming is really the Sony's biggest advantage. Although unless you're super picky the Epson is fine in fast mode only slight loss of detail. Blacks go to Epson. Both are bright. Both have very good picture (besides dark scenes) which is basically a tie. The Lens shift and placement flexiblity hands down goes to Epson.

If you have a large screen over 120" you very well may need the high lamp mode once calibrated... This is a huge advantage for Epson... 4000 hrs vs the Sony at a measly 2000 and why I couldn't go for the Sony, that and I wanted inky blacks, and I needed to install in a boxed ceiling And Sony didn't have enough lens shift. 2000 hrs is a joke and anyone with a dedicated room at THX recommended or larger screen size with probably be at 120" if not larger. For fan noise.. It's hard to hear from a few feet.. and if it bother you Build a hush box, on 2nd thought even if it doesn't bother build a hush box.. nothing like a hidden projector!

If the screen is 120" or smaller so you can run in low lamp and not burn through lamps at 2x the rate of the competition, you are sure you can place without using keystone, and you are anal about gaming being razor sharp.. go with Sony.

If it's a large screen, you want inky blacks, you want the lamp to last in high mode on a large screen, you need some placement flexibility.. go with Epson. Ohh and gaming looks great... it's not a huge deal.

Both are great but have their pros and cons.
I disagree with some of this. Lack of SDE and quiet operation are clear winners for the Sony. Calibrated lumens are higher in the Sony as well. Lamp life? Isn't it a guess anyways? My 40es is extremely bright in low lamp mode, maybe when it hits 1500 hours I'll just to high lamp mode, but I wouldn't give either company an advantage because one thinks their lamp will last longer.

You're not getting inky blacks on the Epson vs the Sony. This is you trying to justify your purchase. I've seen them both setup and I wouldn't call the Epson blacks inky. If you want inky blacks, get a new JVC DILA. Besides, Sony has a better native contrast ratio so when there is light in that scene the blacks are better on the Sony anyways.

Epson used to rock the sub 3k market, but Sony found a way to make their excellent SXRD tech affordable by omitting a iris. After the Sony 40es was released, I wouldn't even consider the Epson unless at substantial discount vs the 40es.
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post #437 of 1059 Old 04-21-2015, 04:30 PM
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I wont be able to compare the 5025UB to the 5030UB, but will be able to compare the 5025 to the Sony and my HC2030 when I get it.


For noise, the Sony in high lamp mode is still quieter then the HC2030 in eco. The HC2030 is mounted directly above the couch about 3ft higher then my head. When I had the Sony setup temporarily it was sitting on its box on the couch directly next to me, and on high made about the same audible noise. If both were equal distance, Id say the 2030 is about 1.5x louder in Eco then the Sony in high. The Sony in low shouldn't bother anyone unless they were watching a scene with 0 sound, and had it on the couch next to them like I did.


With that said, I do not find the 2030 in eco 3' above my head to be distracting at all. Im very sensitive to fan noise as well (my PC has Noctua 120mm fans running at 400rpm and I can still hear them). So assuming the 5025/5030 is in between the two, I imagine the noise difference really wont be drastic at all between the 5025/5030 and the Sony. Im guessing the Eco mode on the Epson is equal to or slightly less then high on the Sony, making it quieter then the 2030 in Eco as well. I would also guess high on the 5025/5030 is the same as eco on the 2030, or very slightly louder. Will know for sure shortly.

Another noise related issue Im concerned with, is I find the iris on the 2030 to be unusable due to how loud it is. Im hoping/assuming the 5025/5030 is far quieter in its adjustments.




For gaming on the 2030, switching the fast mode has no noticeable input lag, and the only visual differences I saw was text becomes noticeably jaggier, and games with very poor AA get slightly more jaggy as well. In most games, there isn't really a visible difference. So really for gaming, Im suspecting the 5025/5030 to tie the Sony instead of the Sony winning. The reason being is the reality creation on the Sony. With it off, the 2030 in fast mode looked sharper (jaggier but not blurry like the Sony). With reality creation on minimum settings, it still implemented too much noise and had too much of an artificially sharpened image. I even tried adjusting noise reduction to low and medium. To me, RC just isn't a usable option, and with it off, the image is way too blurred.


As for SDE, I sit about 12' from a 120" screen and do not see it on the HC2030. Moving up to the 6-7' range I can see it if I look for it, but, I never sit that close to watch anything. Only when Im at my desk and bouncing around a guide or Xbox dashboard looking for something to watch before moving to the couch.




Between the Reality Creation, and multiple reports of panel alignment problems with the Sony (which mine has), Ive dropped it all together as a consideration. If Im unhappy in any way with the 5025UB, Ill either stick with the HC2030 until something new comes, or try to find a deal on a JVC. But with the 5025UB being $1700 with a free second lamp, that essentially makes its $1,000 cheaper then the Sony right now, and $2,000+ cheaper then a JVC.

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post #438 of 1059 Old 04-21-2015, 06:55 PM
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But with the 5025UB being $1700 with a free second lamp, that essentially makes its $1,000 cheaper then the Sony right now, and $2,000+ cheaper then a JVC.
I agree that at MSRP it would be tough to choose SONY. Which is why SONY is aggressive and discounts it often. Even now if you look hard dealers have open box or demo unit you can snag for way lower than MSRP. I know of at least one with low hours where the dealer may be willing to discount. Some have also had success talking to BB managers and getting close to the sale price.

But yes.. compare one at retail and other at promotional price.. it would be tough to not get the far cheaper one..

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post #439 of 1059 Old 04-21-2015, 07:13 PM
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But with the 5025UB being $1700 with a free second lamp, that essentially makes its $1,000 cheaper then the Sony right now, and $2,000+ cheaper then a JVC.
I agree that at MSRP it would be tough to choose SONY. Which is why SONY is aggressive and discounts it often. Even now if you look hard dealers have open box or demo unit you can snag for way lower than MSRP. I know of at least one with low hours where the dealer may be willing to discount. Some have also had success talking to BB managers and getting close to the sale price.

But yes.. compare one at retail and other at promotional price.. it would be tough to not get the far cheaper one..
The Sony I picked up was a scratch and dent model from crutchfield for $2125. But even that is higher then if it were on sale. Overall with the lamp offer and sale prices it seems the 5025 averages $700 less, give of take $100-200.

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post #440 of 1059 Old 04-21-2015, 07:21 PM
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Guys, I can safely report that, after only 10 minutes of toying with the ND2 filter I got, I believe it did the trick to make me happy with the HW40s black levels.


I will play with it in detail more tomorrow. I didn't get any reflections from the filter at all that I noticed from holding it up, or anything that seemed to be irregularities in the image from it.


The 0.3/ND2 modified the blacks just enough to make them on par and even better than the 5030s than I remember.
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post #441 of 1059 Old 04-21-2015, 08:19 PM
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Guys, I can safely report that, after only 10 minutes of toying with the ND2 filter I got, I believe it did the trick to make me happy with the HW40s black levels.


I will play with it in detail more tomorrow. I didn't get any reflections from the filter at all that I noticed from holding it up, or anything that seemed to be irregularities in the image from it.


The 0.3/ND2 modified the blacks just enough to make them on par and even better than the 5030s than I remember.
Imagine what the filter could do if you used it on the Epson.
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post #442 of 1059 Old 04-21-2015, 09:56 PM
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I know that pictures don't mean much, and it's hard to tell real PQ using pictures, but - my Epson gave me this. My Sony does not provide me this type of black on the main image. So the increased contrast goes to waste, in my opinion.


Ignore the black bars at top/bottom, those have masking on them and will always be pitch black.


wow the view of the stars from your house is beautiful, your living room is also very classy.
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post #443 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 04:37 AM
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You're not getting inky blacks on the Epson vs the Sony. This is you trying to justify your purchase. I've seen them both setup and I wouldn't call the Epson blacks inky. If you want inky blacks, get a new JVC DILA. Besides, Sony has a better native contrast ratio so when there is light in that scene the blacks are better on the Sony anyways.
Is the native higher on the Sony? Point me to a review that has measured on/off contrast on both.

The only tests I've seen are on this site,

Sony,
http://www.projection-homecinema.fr/...mecinema-sxrd/

5185: 1

Epson
http://www.projection-homecinema.fr/...du-projecteur/

8025: 1

The Sony probably has more perceived contrast due to the definite higher calibrated brightness.

Although like in my previous post, I do agree the Epson does still show some greyishness in some scenes. The problem is that almost no matter how dark of a grey the projector produces, your eyes will adjust and you can still see some light if the image is on the screen long enough. Also room treatment really comes into play in mixed scenes (like space scenes with black space, but brightly lit spaceships for example). If your room doesn't have very dark walls/floor/ceiling, then you will see a dark grey for sure in those mixed scenes.
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post #444 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 04:43 AM
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I disagree with some of this. Lack of SDE and quiet operation are clear winners for the Sony. Calibrated lumens are higher in the Sony as well. Lamp life? Isn't it a guess anyways? My 40es is extremely bright in low lamp mode, maybe when it hits 1500 hours I'll just to high lamp mode, but I wouldn't give either company an advantage because one thinks their lamp will last longer.

You're not getting inky blacks on the Epson vs the Sony. This is you trying to justify your purchase. I've seen them both setup and I wouldn't call the Epson blacks inky. If you want inky blacks, get a new JVC DILA. Besides, Sony has a better native contrast ratio so when there is light in that scene the blacks are better on the Sony anyways.

Epson used to rock the sub 3k market, but Sony found a way to make their excellent SXRD tech affordable by omitting a iris. After the Sony 40es was released, I wouldn't even consider the Epson unless at substantial discount vs the 40es.
That's a fair opinion. However right above your post a member was discussing living with SDE on the Epson because the Sonys black were just too inferior to the Epson. He felt the SDE on the Epson was acceptable but the Blacks on the Sony weren't. Are there darker blacks out there???..sure...but not seeing black bars is good enough for most especially in this price range.

And in reality if you see SDE... you're sitting pretty close to a large image, and if you must sit close.... of course you may not want the Epson. FWIW call projector people.. tell them your goals are blacks and picture.... they'll sway you to the Epson... gaming the Sony.

have no doubt if Sony could have put a better lamp life on the specs they would have. What 2000hrs means is that at that point it'll be dim to a point where it needs to be changed.. not that it'll blow. And usually the manufacturers are close with this, they built the thing and measure lumen loss to calculate when they recommend you change it. Sure a smaller screen gives the option of switching to high to overcome the dimming. But a larger screen wont have that option. Over the last 15 years with projectors I've never had a lamp die (I';ve ran a few well past 5k hours).... I just swap them when they are dim as hell.

As I said originally, they're both great projectors but they do have strengths and weaknesses.

Last edited by cdy2179; 04-22-2015 at 04:53 AM.
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post #445 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by CTM Audi View Post
The Sony I picked up was a scratch and dent model from crutchfield for $2125. But even that is higher then if it were on sale. Overall with the lamp offer and sale prices it seems the 5025 averages $700 less, give of take $100-200.
Yes, that's still higher. The unit I referred to would come under $1900 with just a few hours of testing/ demoing on it. Or one can wait for the next round of SONY sale at $1999.

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Originally Posted by JJxiv1215 View Post
Guys, I can safely report that, after only 10 minutes of toying with the ND2 filter I got, I believe it did the trick to make me happy with the HW40s black levels.

The 0.3/ND2 modified the blacks just enough to make them on par and even better than the 5030s than I remember.
Awesome.. Glad it worked out.. Welcome back to the family.. I never doubted you

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Imagine what the filter could do if you used it on the Epson.
It would crush blacks.. The SONY's shadow detail surpasses that of the Epson.

Insert pithy comment here
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post #446 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 05:11 AM
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It would crush blacks.. The SONY's shadow detail surpasses that of the Epson.
I think it would be too dark unless a pretty small screen was used, but it would have no effect on shadow detail. The filter just lowers the overall brightness of the image. Nothing more.
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post #447 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 05:25 AM
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Guys, I can safely report that, after only 10 minutes of toying with the ND2 filter I got, I believe it did the trick to make me happy with the HW40s black levels.


I will play with it in detail more tomorrow. I didn't get any reflections from the filter at all that I noticed from holding it up, or anything that seemed to be irregularities in the image from it.


The 0.3/ND2 modified the blacks just enough to make them on par and even better than the 5030s than I remember.

Where did you buy this filter? Does it fit the lens perfect?


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post #448 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 06:15 AM
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wow the view of the stars from your house is beautiful, your living room is also very classy.
Thanks, Turbo. It's actually a condo, not a house. Moved in right when they finished building it. Corner unit - no neighbors above me, no neighbors to my right, the building's demo unit is to my left, and 8" of concrete separate me and the unit below. Which has been empty 50% of the time I've lived here. I think it's haunted. Nobody who leases it stays longer than a few months. It's really weird. Anyway, I never have to worry about neighbor complaints for that reason. Kind of lucked out on apartment living that way, I can blare as loud as I want with no issues.

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Spoiler!


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Originally Posted by talon95 View Post
Is the native higher on the Sony? Point me to a review that has measured on/off contrast on both. The only tests I've seen are on this site,

Sony,
http://www.projection-homecinema.fr/...mecinema-sxrd/ 5185: 1

Epson
http://www.projection-homecinema.fr/...du-projecteur/ 8025: 1

The Sony probably has more perceived contrast due to the definite higher calibrated brightness.

Although like in my previous post, I do agree the Epson does still show some greyishness in some scenes. The problem is that almost no matter how dark of a grey the projector produces, your eyes will adjust and you can still see some light if the image is on the screen long enough. Also room treatment really comes into play in mixed scenes (like space scenes with black space, but brightly lit spaceships for example). If your room doesn't have very dark walls/floor/ceiling, then you will see a dark grey for sure in those mixed scenes.
It may be the perceived contrast, but I do see a bit more detail on shadow scenes on the Sony. The Epson was black enough for me as a former plasma owner. And now with the filter on my Sony 40, it's just as black, without the Epson's SDE (at my seating distance). So I think I finally found the perfect match. And to think I almost went back to a 65" TV. And a LCD at that! You can see above, in the spoiler image, that my viewing conditions are less than optimal, so I can't relate to anyone's experience but my own - and suggest taking my own opinions with a grain of salt due to this.

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Originally Posted by cdy2179 View Post
That's a fair opinion. However right above your post a member was discussing living with SDE on the Epson because the Sonys black were just too inferior to the Epson. He felt the SDE on the Epson was acceptable but the Blacks on the Sony weren't. Are there darker blacks out there???..sure...but not seeing black bars is good enough for most especially in this price range.

Yes, this was me. Bad blacks took me out of the experience more than SDE did. But - I could correct the blacks with a $35 ND filter. I could not correct the SDE I got. But this is a product of my seating distance and unalterable arrangement of my viewing conditions.

And in reality if you see SDE... you're sitting pretty close to a large image, and if you must sit close.... of course you may not want the Epson. FWIW call projector people.. tell them your goals are blacks and picture.... they'll sway you to the Epson... gaming the Sony.

That's what it is. If you're susceptible to SDE due to eye sensitivity or your seating arrangement vs screen size, go Sony. If not, go Epson. Out the box, the blacks and picture are better. The Sony needs tweaking. And RC takes some getting used to. It's insufferable at first, but I've found my middle ground with it where it satisfies me. (RC to Min, Noise Filtering to Min, NR to Low, MPEG NR to Low)

have no doubt if Sony could have put a better lamp life on the specs they would have. What 2000hrs means is that at that point it'll be dim to a point where it needs to be changed.. not that it'll blow. And usually the manufacturers are close with this, they built the thing and measure lumen loss to calculate when they recommend you change it. Sure a smaller screen gives the option of switching to high to overcome the dimming. But a larger screen wont have that option. Over the last 15 years with projectors I've never had a lamp die (I';ve ran a few well past 5k hours).... I just swap them when they are dim as hell.

As I said originally, they're both great projectors but they do have strengths and weaknesses. Yes, fully agree. People can take our advice here, but I still recommend they compare our viewing environments to theirs when they make their decisions. Best advice we can give.
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Where did you buy this filter? Does it fit the lens perfect?
Yes, it's a 77mm filter, the width at the focus ring is at 89mm, but the actual glass is smaller. The filter, thanks to not being curved, doesn't give me any reflections that I can notice when placed flat on the lens glass. I bought it from Amazon. Tiffen neutral density filters sell for $100 at my local camera shop, but I found them online for $30. I ordered another step up, an ND4, to see the results.
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Last edited by JJxiv1215; 04-22-2015 at 06:18 AM.
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post #449 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Kilgore View Post
Imagine what the filter could do if you used it on the Epson.
Not remove my qualm with SDE??

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Originally Posted by talon95 View Post
I think it would be too dark unless a pretty small screen was used, but it would have no effect on shadow detail. The filter just lowers the overall brightness of the image. Nothing more.
Correct. I noticed no loss in shadow detail. I do want to note, that my limited time in playing around yesterday was restricted to dark scenes, night scenes, underground areas, etc.

I haven't played with it yet in areas of max contrast and in bright scenes, or animated movies, to see how much it lowered my whites by yet. Stay tuned, I'll try that tonight.

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Awesome.. Glad it worked out.. Welcome back to the family.. I never doubted you
I can't believe I almost considered going LED TV. Argh.
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post #450 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by JJxiv1215 View Post
Yes, it's a 77mm filter, the width at the focus ring is at 89mm, but the actual glass is smaller. The filter, thanks to not being curved, doesn't give me any reflections that I can notice when placed flat on the lens glass. I bought it from Amazon. Tiffen neutral density filters sell for $100 at my local camera shop, but I found them online for $30. I ordered another step up, an ND4, to see the results.
Got a link? I recently switched from Epson 5030 to the HW40 myself, very happy with the switch but I too noticed blacks being a little less 'black' then what I got from the Epson. Not a deal breaker for me, far from it, but if a cheap filter can help a bit why not? I'm using a 1.3 gain screen which is almost a crime but there's no way for me (for now) to use another screen since the whole thing is built into the ceiling. As you can see my environment is not exactly projector-friendly either (esp during daytime) :

screen up

screen down
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Last edited by lapino; 04-22-2015 at 07:26 AM.
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