Epson 5030UB vs Sony VPL-HW40ES, anyone else wrestling? - Page 16 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #451 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 08:03 AM
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I'd like a link also, to both the current filter you have and the nd4. Thank you very much for the help


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post #452 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lapino View Post
Got a link? I recently switched from Epson 5030 to the HW40 myself, very happy with the switch but I too noticed blacks being a little less 'black' then what I got from the Epson. Not a deal breaker for me, far from it, but if a cheap filter can help a bit why not? I'm using a 1.3 gain screen which is almost a crime but there's no way for me (for now) to use another screen since the whole thing is built into the ceiling. As you can see my environment is not exactly projector-friendly either (esp during daytime) :

screen up
Spoiler!
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I'd like a link also, to both the current filter you have and the nd4. Thank you very much for the help
Hey, nice place, man. I can see how switching out that screen would be a pain in the ass. And I agree with your environmental comments, I know!

Anyway, here's the one I bought:

http://www.amazon.com/Tiffen-77mm-Ne...eutral+density

And here's the one I ordered to see if it helps even more:

http://www.amazon.com/Tiffen-77mm-Ne...eutral+density

I haven't scientifically measured the light output differences, but I will do so today. My estimate is that the first one, the 0.3/ND2 filter, drops brightness by around 15-20%. Shadow detail is the same as it's an even brightness drop across the entire spectrum.
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post #453 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by JJxiv1215 View Post
Thanks, Turbo. It's actually a condo, not a house. Moved in right when they finished building it. Corner unit - no neighbors above me, no neighbors to my right, the building's demo unit is to my left, and 8" of concrete separate me and the unit below. Which has been empty 50% of the time I've lived here. I think it's haunted. Nobody who leases it stays longer than a few months. It's really weird. Anyway, I never have to worry about neighbor complaints for that reason. Kind of lucked out on apartment living that way, I can blare as loud as I want with no issues.

Pic:
Spoiler!




It may be the perceived contrast, but I do see a bit more detail on shadow scenes on the Sony. The Epson was black enough for me as a former plasma owner. And now with the filter on my Sony 40, it's just as black, without the Epson's SDE (at my seating distance). So I think I finally found the perfect match. And to think I almost went back to a 65" TV. And a LCD at that! You can see above, in the spoiler image, that my viewing conditions are less than optimal, so I can't relate to anyone's experience but my own - and suggest taking my own opinions with a grain of salt due to this.





Yes, it's a 77mm filter, the width at the focus ring is at 89mm, but the actual glass is smaller. The filter, thanks to not being curved, doesn't give me any reflections that I can notice when placed flat on the lens glass. I bought it from Amazon. Tiffen neutral density filters sell for $100 at my local camera shop, but I found them online for $30. I ordered another step up, an ND4, to see the results.

JJ, out of curiosity why did you go ND instead of FL-D? I'm going to try out a FL-D myself as - in theory - it should have a smaller drop in brightness but a equal increase in blacks, increasing the actual contrast.

I'll probably order a ND2 as well, can you post or PM a link? I could only find a ND3 on B&H.

EDIT - See you posted the link just before I asked for it! haha.
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post #454 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 08:15 AM
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Does this fit automatically?

Oh and another thing: projectors (esp white like mine) seems to attract flies a lot. My projector is often covered is small fly 'sh*t' even though there are very little flies indoors here in Belgium. Anything to prevent them from using my projector as a toilet??
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post #455 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lapino View Post
Does this fit automatically?
I'll post a pic tonight. And no, it doesn't. It sits snugly inside the diameter of the focus ring, but you need to have something hold it up. Double sided tape, packing tape, glue if you wanna make it permanent.

And I cannot comment on bugs,

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post #456 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift_grind View Post
JJ, out of curiosity why did you go ND instead of FL-D? I'm going to try out a FL-D myself as - in theory - it should have a smaller drop in brightness but a equal increase in blacks, increasing the actual contrast.

I'll probably order a ND2 as well, can you post or PM a link? I could only find a ND3 on B&H.

EDIT - See you posted the link just before I asked for it! haha.
I didn't want to deal with color correction, and - well, to put it bluntly - I couldn't see how that light ass shade of a red could affect my black levels in a satisfactory way. The photographs I saw of the FL-D in action on that German website provided only the most subtle differences in blacks.

I knew that would not help me whatsoever. I figured going ND, thanks to the recommendation of a buddy on the blu-ray forums, would provide that even brightness drop across the entire spectrum.

Again, I want to reiterate - I haven't scientifically confirmed the brightness drop yet, or seen how much top end white I've lost yet. That's for tonight. Yesterday was just to check out black levels.
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post #457 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJxiv1215 View Post
Hey, nice place, man. I can see how switching out that screen would be a pain in the ass. And I agree with your environmental comments, I know!

Anyway, here's the one I bought:

http://www.amazon.com/Tiffen-77mm-Ne...eutral+density

And here's the one I ordered to see if it helps even more:

http://www.amazon.com/Tiffen-77mm-Ne...eutral+density

I haven't scientifically measured the light output differences, but I will do so today. My estimate is that the first one, the 0.3/ND2 filter, drops brightness by around 15-20%. Shadow detail is the same as it's an even brightness drop across the entire spectrum.
Drops by 50%,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutral...filter_ratings

It's a large brightness hit. Although if your screen is around 100", that will probably still work ok, at least while the lamp is fairly new. Might just remove the filter after you hit 1000 hrs or so.
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post #458 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 08:26 AM
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Question about the Filter. What else does it do besides reduce brightness? I take it, it must do more since you can just reduce the brightness of the projector itself right?
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post #459 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by lindino08 View Post
Question about the Filter. What else does it do besides reduce brightness? I take it, it must do more since you can just reduce the brightness on the projector itself right?
Nope, that's all it does. No different than reducing brightness by using low lamp, moving the projector back for a longer throw, etc...

That's one advantage of the Epson though. You can get a huge range of brightness depending on how you set it up and what picture mode you use.
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post #460 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by talon95 View Post
Nope, that's all it does. No different than reducing brightness by using low lamp, moving the projector back for a longer throw, etc...

That's one advantage of the Epson though. You can get a huge range of brightness depending on how you set it up and what picture mode you use.
I don't have the Sony yet but I am 99% sure I'll be picking one up on the next sale. So there is no "brightness" setting like you find on TV's? You can only choose the set picture modes that it provides and then adjust color content, etc.?
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post #461 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talon95 View Post
Drops by 50%,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutral...filter_ratings

It's a large brightness hit. Although if your screen is around 100", that will probably still work ok, at least while the lamp is fairly new. Might just remove the filter after you hit 1000 hrs or so.
Incorrect. I would notice a visible drop in 50% - it was nowhere near that much. I think that's maybe because cameras and projectors dont work exactly the same - one receives light for processing, the other outputs it.

In no way is it a visible 50% drop in brightness. Not even close. Hence why I ballparked 15-20%. Another guy on the bluray forums told me his ND2 measured out like 25% for him in his viewing environment.

I thought so too when I checked Wikipedia, but thats just for cameras. I wouldnt adhere to that at all now that I've tried it.
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post #462 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lindino08 View Post
I don't have the Sony yet but I am 99% sure I'll be picking one up on the next sale. So there is no "brightness" setting like you find on TV's? You can only choose the set picture modes that it provides and then adjust color content, etc.?
It does have a brightness setting. It just has a brighter "standard" black than the Epson. Boy, it's hard to explain that scientifically.

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Question about the Filter. What else does it do besides reduce brightness? I take it, it must do more since you can just reduce the brightness of the projector itself right?
It reduces light output across the entire spectrum - it is NOT the same as reducing brightness on the projector. You maintain shadow detail, which you will lose if you reduce brightness on the projector.

The blacks on the Sony don't get any blacker for me by turning down the Brightness setting. Just everything else. You get black crush on the grays if you reduce brightness.

The Epson is a great projector, honestly. The only reason it didn't work for me was SDE at my screen size and viewing distance. But try both out and see for yourself which one you like best. The Sony with the lens filter on it covers all my bases satisfactorily.

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post #463 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 08:54 AM
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All of these projectors have "brightness" and "contrast" adjustments in the menu.

Brightness: this adjust black level (I know, doesn't make sense with the name)
Contrast: adjusts the upper end (bright white)

But you don't want to reduce the "contrast" setting to reduce brightness. All you will do is reduce the max on/off contrast of the image which is not desirable. It's much better to adjust brightness by other means mentioned in this thread.
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post #464 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJxiv1215 View Post
It does have a brightness setting. It just has a brighter "standard" black than the Epson. Boy, it's hard to explain that scientifically.



It reduces light output across the entire spectrum - it is NOT the same as reducing brightness on the projector. You maintain shadow detail, which you will lose if you reduce brightness on the projector.

The blacks on the Sony don't get any blacker for me by turning down the Brightness setting. Just everything else. You get black crush on the grays if you reduce brightness.

The Epson is a great projector, honestly. The only reason it didn't work for me was SDE at my screen size and viewing distance. But try both out and see for yourself which one you like best. The Sony with the lens filter on it covers all my bases satisfactorily.
Thanks JJ. I think I am sold on the Sony though. I do game quite a bit not as much as I would like because of my wife and young daughter. But the lower input on the Sony and lower fan noise were the selling points. The projector will be mounted directly above my main seating position and will be only about 3-4 feet from my head. My wife hates when I crank my sound / subs so when we are watching movies together I do not want to hear the projector at all. I am pretty OCD when it comes to things like the possible fan noise and SDE on the Epson. I am building a DIY screen with a SilverFire paint mix to hopefully help out on the black level.
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post #465 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJxiv1215 View Post
I didn't want to deal with color correction, and - well, to put it bluntly - I couldn't see how that light ass shade of a red could affect my black levels in a satisfactory way. The photographs I saw of the FL-D in action on that German website provided only the most subtle differences in blacks.

I knew that would not help me whatsoever. I figured going ND, thanks to the recommendation of a buddy on the blu-ray forums, would provide that even brightness drop across the entire spectrum.

Again, I want to reiterate - I haven't scientifically confirmed the brightness drop yet, or seen how much top end white I've lost yet. That's for tonight. Yesterday was just to check out black levels.
I'll report back next week when I get one installed, but the idea is that these and most UHP projectors are red deficient, so they push green and blue. To calibrate they have to pull the green and blue back so the colors are even. By putting a FL-D filter in you get a red push and because it's tinted, it lowers the light ouput. You can now increase the green and blue to get your light output back, but you're still getting the better blacks due the lens.

I'm going to try them both. I'll post up what I find out.
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post #466 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 09:18 AM
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Between the Reality Creation, and multiple reports of panel alignment problems with the Sony (which mine has), Ive dropped it all together as a consideration.
You bought your Sony as an "Open Box return" from Crutchfield, correct? I can't help but think someone returned it due to the panel alignment issues you're experiencing. It would make sense that someone returned the PJ because something was wrong with it. And I don't know where you found "mulitple reports of panel alignment problems"? Some users here have only had to slightly adjust their panels once the PJ is mounted but the panels can get misaligned during shipping, etc. Some haven't had to adjust the panels at all. Hardly a product defect.

My previous projector was an Epson HC2000, little brother to your 2030, and I experienced all the same issues you mentioned, fast mode compromises vs high gaming lag, louder fan, lighter black levels, SDE. As a gamer, it's really too bad the HW40es didn't work out for you since it has the lowest lag of any sub $3K price range, almost zero fan noise and no SDE. I couldn't be happier with my HW40 for gaming, movies, everything.

As for RC, set it to the minimum and also lower the sharpness to 5 or less, see if that helps (worked for me). If not, return the Sony and hopefully the 5030 or 5025 will work for you. GL

**EDIT** - Just saw your post on the HW40es thread, looks like you got an ND filter and are now keeping the Sony?

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Imagine what the filter could do if you used it on the Epson.
Would it hide the SDE? Or muffle the fan noise? (sorry, couldn't resist)

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post #467 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 09:36 AM
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For those holding out on the Sony, I was told by one of the popular Web stores that word is Sony will have a sale in the middle of the summer. The last one last Fall knocked it down well under $2k.
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post #468 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 10:37 AM
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I won't be buying an Epson because of the panel issues I have had with my 6500UB. I am on my 3rd unit (under warranty) because of a 2 to 3 inch red or blue haze that appears on the bottom and top of the screen. My 3rd unit is out of warranty now and has had the issue for the last 6 months. It is slowly getting worse. Hopefully Epson has figured this out by now.

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Imagine what the filter could do if you used it on the Epson.
I think it's important to note that JJxiv1215 freely admits that his room is a projector torture test. And I'm not surprised that he likes the Sony black levels with a filter as much as he did the Epson since the filter basically adds a fixed iris for all practical purposes. The projectors are otherwise very similar.

But I think it's important to understand that in a better room the difference is not likely to be all that apparent and most people will be fine with the Sony black levels in that better room. And don't get me wrong....that's a nice condo...but almost ANY room is going to be better for a projector than that.

I was watching Gravity on a white screen in a 'moderate' room (blueish gray walls and white ceiling) a few nights ago on my 40ES. The image was very pleasing. It never made me wish I was watching my F8500 plasma instead and while that display can't achieve Kuro like blacks it's no slouch either.

That's not to say it was a PERFECT experience. In brighter scenes the letter boxes would really wash out. It's not like the projector just $%#@ the bed....as the image got brighter the walls and ceiling got brighter as well and all that ambient light bouncing around landed on the screen. Darker walls and ceilings would lessen this.

I think the largest part of JJxiv1215's success with the filter was due to lessening the amount of ambient light flying around his terrible (for a projector....I'm sure the ladies love it) room. Which is great since he now has something he is pleased with after losing his flagship plasma. But unfortunately I think it's creating a bit of FUD about the Sony based upon some of the comments here.

If you are coming from anything other than a ZT60 or Kuro and aren't projecting from the surface of the sun I think most people are going to be extremely pleased with the 40ES. It blows my side lit local dimming VA panel away (as it should) and is close enough to my plasma for me not to care unless I'm watching them side by side (and that is unlikely to ever happen).

I may end up trying a ND filter because I see flicker in the low lamp setting and my throw distance and screen size may end up being a bit fatiguing for me until the bulb ages a bit. But I personally won't be trying it to improve black level.
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post #470 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 10:51 AM
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Yea bottom line is you probably can't go wrong with either projector and they both have their strengths, so like some have posted, buy the one that fits your needs/desires the best.

And yes, as I mentioned a few posts ago, your room has a huge impact on the performance of the projector. A lower end projector will look better in a fully treated light controlled room than a high end projector in a lousy room.
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post #471 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by BDUB619 View Post
You bought your Sony as an "Open Box return" from Crutchfield, correct? I can't help but think someone returned it due to the panel alignment issues you're experiencing. It would make sense that someone returned the PJ because something was wrong with it. And I don't know where you found "mulitple reports of panel alignment problems"? Some users here have only had to slightly adjust their panels once the PJ is mounted but the panels can get misaligned during shipping, etc. Some haven't had to adjust the panels at all. Hardly a product defect.

My previous projector was an Epson HC2000, little brother to your 2030, and I experienced all the same issues you mentioned, fast mode compromises vs high gaming lag, louder fan, lighter black levels, SDE. As a gamer, it's really too bad the HW40es didn't work out for you since it has the lowest lag of any sub $3K price range, almost zero fan noise and no SDE. I couldn't be happier with my HW40 for gaming, movies, everything.

As for RC, set it to the minimum and also lower the sharpness to 5 or less, see if that helps (worked for me). If not, return the Sony and hopefully the 5030 or 5025 will work for you. GL

**EDIT** - Just saw your post on the HW40es thread, looks like you got an ND filter and are now keeping the Sony?



Would it hide the SDE? Or muffle the fan noise? (sorry, couldn't resist)
No Im not keeping the Sony. I just did that to try it on the new white screen instead of the grey I had. To me blacks were fine on the grey, but not dark on the white. With the ND4 filter, they were back to the levels they were on the grey screen without a filter. The grey screen I had shimmered too much and had hotspotting though.


The Sony is a really good projector with an exceptionally sharp and poppy image with RC on. I just don't like the artificial enhancements and artifacts though. I had it set to RC with both options on min, 0 sharpness, and NR low, Mpeg NR low (tried medium on these as well). Just couldn't accept it when spending so much on it.




I think overall the two tie, but it comes down to personal preference and needs. Do you notice SDE or want lowest possible input lag while being able to accept artificial artifacts? Then get the Sony. Want slightly better blacks, more adjustment range, "cleaner" image (if you are far enough away to not see SDE) and better / more accessible 3D? Get the Epson.


I picked up a Samsung UN48H6350 for gaming specifically, so only use for me now on the projector is movies in a dark room.




As for the panel alignment, someone in the Sony thread said there have been quite a few reports of misaligned panels and you have about a 1/3 shot of returning it for one like that. Crutchfield seems to have at least a few open box, and scratch and dent Sonys, while they have no previously used 5030UBs, whatever that is worth.
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post #472 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 12:18 PM
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While I still find the sony quieter than the Epson I notice that the fan tends to make a rattle like sound. Very faint. Is this normal?
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post #473 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMartin56 View Post
I think it's important to note that JJxiv1215 freely admits that his room is a projector torture test. And I'm not surprised that he likes the Sony black levels with a filter as much as he did the Epson since the filter basically adds a fixed iris for all practical purposes. The projectors are otherwise very similar.

Couldnt have said this any better myself. That's why I always tried to include 'in my experience' or 'in my room' or 'YMMV' whatever in my posts, because I have a very unique viewing environment. Read: Terrible.

But I think it's important to understand that in a better room the difference is not likely to be all that apparent and most people will be fine with the Sony black levels in that better room. And don't get me wrong....that's a nice condo...but almost ANY room is going to be better for a projector than that.

Yes. Again, right on all points. I was sufficiently impressed when testing an Epson 2030 projecting onto a white painted piece of 4x8 plywood that I decided to go further into it, leading me to believe it would work just well. It does!

I was watching Gravity on a white screen in a 'moderate' room (blueish gray walls and white ceiling) a few nights ago on my 40ES. The image was very pleasing. It never made me wish I was watching my F8500 plasma instead and while that display can't achieve Kuro like blacks it's no slouch either. That's not to say it was a PERFECT experience. In brighter scenes the letter boxes would really wash out. It's not like the projector just $%#@ the bed....as the image got brighter the walls and ceiling got brighter as well and all that ambient light bouncing around landed on the screen. Darker walls and ceilings would lessen this.

And masking, too, which is a big part of my experience. Manually detachable magnetic masking panels make my experience much, much more enjoyable when the letterboxes fade away into the dark.

I think the largest part of JJxiv1215's success with the filter was due to lessening the amount of ambient light flying around his terrible (for a projector....I'm sure the ladies love it) room. Which is great since he now has something he is pleased with after losing his flagship plasma. But unfortunately I think it's creating a bit of FUD about the Sony based upon some of the comments here.

I want to avoid that too. Another reason why I always used my background as a premier plasma owner to make my comparisons. I dont know anything else, so I cant compare it to LED LCDs and the like. LOL, yes, for four years the ladies loved it. Then one lady loved me more than the place itself, and now she lives here...

If you are coming from anything other than a ZT60 or Kuro and aren't projecting from the surface of the sun I think most people are going to be extremely pleased with the 40ES. It blows my side lit local dimming VA panel away (as it should) and is close enough to my plasma for me not to care unless I'm watching them side by side (and that is unlikely to ever happen).

I may end up trying a ND filter because I see flicker in the low lamp setting and my throw distance and screen size may end up being a bit fatiguing for me until the bulb ages a bit. But I personally won't be trying it to improve black level.
Well said on all counts, man. :thumbsup:
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post #474 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by lapino View Post
While I still find the sony quieter than the Epson I notice that the fan tends to make a rattle like sound. Very faint. Is this normal?
No, a rattle in the fan is not normal. My HW40's fan does not rattle at all.

Are you sure it's the fan and not a loose connection on your mount? (very nice living room btw!)

Or maybe those pesky flies got sucked up into your PJ?

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post #475 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 01:05 PM
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If anybody wants to wait until the end of the weekend, I will probably sell either the 0.3/ND2 or the 0.6/ND4 filter I bought, you can have it for less than it'll cost you on Amazon.

I'll also provide a detailed breakdown with actual measurements in lumens that I can measure with the filters on/off and in different viewing modes, and after a couple hours messing around with this, I'll be able to provide a better review/analysis of my findings with regards to black level improvements, white losses, and overall viewing experience changes.

Again, bearing in mind my room is horrible. Since I don't believe I have anything further to contribute to the discussion in this particular thread - I will take my remaining discussions on filters and the like to the Sony thread. I will post my final remarks on it right now though for posterity.
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post #476 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 01:07 PM
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I might be interested but live in Belgium, no problem shipping it?
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post #477 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 01:19 PM
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Final Thoughts and Review on the 5030 vs VPL40

Ok, my final comments as both an Epson 5030 owner and a VPL40 owner...

My viewing environment and important measurements:

- 7'6" to 7'-9" from seating to screen
- 92" screen, 0.8gain, DIY
- 11'6" mounting distance projector to screen, 7' off ground, minimum lens shift used

- 19' ft high open loft space. White tile floors, white walls, two 19' high windows on two sides of the room. Open plan condo with basically about 8,000 cu ft of area including upstairs loft, living room, dining area, kitchen. Excluding bathrooms/bedrooms/storage/etc. East facing window 8'x19' window behind screen, south facing 8'x19' window to the right. Blinds on all windows.

- 85% movies, 10% sports, 5% PS4 gaming

Basically, the worst place. But it works just fine with the blinds closed, a low gain screen, blackout curtains on balcony french doors, and proper calibration.

Epson:
A perfect picture in every way - great black levels, good contrast, amazing brightness, great 3D, great sharpness & clarity, great lighting presets, great color accuracy; easy to mount and level, amazing auto-open and auto-close lens feature to prevent dust. I was 100% happy with the unit. The only downside, when I discovered it, was screen door effect due to my unalterable seating distance vs. screen size. Gaming was still acceptable to me, I play Destiny on it on occasion (have a gaming system upstairs on my Kuro for that). Some audible noise from dynamic iris and fan, unit mounted at 3' higher than my head, 4' behind it. But not distracting to me.

Sony:
A great picture - decent black levels, great contrast, amazing brightness, great 3D, great presets, and amazing color accuracy to me. Difficult to perfectly level, no auto-open/close on the lens. I do not use the lens cap. Concerns: Noticeably lesser black levels than the Epson. Soft image without Reality Creation created. Artificial, processed image with RC on. Can be massaged with NR to my satisfaction and enjoyment. Far more detailed with RC on than the Epson, albeit with the processing artifacts. Noticeably faster than the Epson for gaming, but not deal-makingly so. Whisper quiet. Aesthetically, much more pleasing.

Note: I was able to create better-than-Epson blacks on the Sony by using a camera's Neutral Density filter in front of the lens, to reduce overall output across the entire spectrum.

My personal choice: Sony VPL40. Both SDE and bad blacks are deal breakers - but when I fixed the Sony's blacks in my environment with a $30 lens and nothing will fix the Epson's SDE in my environment - the decision was clear.

PLEASE TRY OUT BOTH UNITS IN YOUR OWN HOME! Your viewing environment will be different than mine, guaranteed. This way you can decide for yourself.
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post #478 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 01:41 PM
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Wouldn't it be nice if Epson could fix their faults, or Sony theirs? and keep it under 3K? Trade-offs suck. I think if Sony upgraded the lens to a higher quality glass unit it would be unstoppable. Dynamic iris would be nice as well (see - Sony 55es) but the upcharge for that is quite high.

Perhaps in a few years Epson will have an affordable 4k unit for under $3k. I bet SDE wouldn't be an issue then.
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post #479 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJxiv1215 View Post
Ok, my final comments as both an Epson 5030 owner and a VPL40 owner...

My viewing environment and important measurements:

- 7'6" to 7'-9" from seating to screen
- 92" screen, 0.8gain, DIY
- 11'6" mounting distance projector to screen, 7' off ground, minimum lens shift used

- 19' ft high open loft space. White tile floors, white walls, two 19' high windows on two sides of the room. Open plan condo with basically about 8,000 cu ft of area including upstairs loft, living room, dining area, kitchen. Excluding bathrooms/bedrooms/storage/etc. East facing window 8'x19' window behind screen, south facing 8'x19' window to the right. Blinds on all windows.

- 85% movies, 10% sports, 5% PS4 gaming

Basically, the worst place. But it works just fine with the blinds closed, a low gain screen, blackout curtains on balcony french doors, and proper calibration.

Epson:
A perfect picture in every way - great black levels, good contrast, amazing brightness, great 3D, great sharpness & clarity, great lighting presets, great color accuracy; easy to mount and level, amazing auto-open and auto-close lens feature to prevent dust. I was 100% happy with the unit. The only downside, when I discovered it, was screen door effect due to my unalterable seating distance vs. screen size. Gaming was still acceptable to me, I play Destiny on it on occasion (have a gaming system upstairs on my Kuro for that). Some audible noise from dynamic iris and fan, unit mounted at 3' higher than my head, 4' behind it. But not distracting to me.

Sony:
A great picture - decent black levels, great contrast, amazing brightness, great 3D, great presets, and amazing color accuracy to me. Difficult to perfectly level, no auto-open/close on the lens. I do not use the lens cap. Concerns: Noticeably lesser black levels than the Epson. Soft image without Reality Creation created. Artificial, processed image with RC on. Can be massaged with NR to my satisfaction and enjoyment. Far more detailed with RC on than the Epson, albeit with the processing artifacts. Noticeably faster than the Epson for gaming, but not deal-makingly so. Whisper quiet. Aesthetically, much more pleasing.

Note: I was able to create better-than-Epson blacks on the Sony by using a camera's Neutral Density filter in front of the lens, to reduce overall output across the entire spectrum.

My personal choice: Sony VPL40. Both SDE and bad blacks are deal breakers - but when I fixed the Sony's blacks in my environment with a $30 lens and nothing will fix the Epson's SDE in my environment - the decision was clear.

PLEASE TRY OUT BOTH UNITS IN YOUR OWN HOME! Your viewing environment will be different than mine, guaranteed. This way you can decide for yourself.

Would you still apply the filter if you had a dedicated Theater room? My setup is in my basement, black ceiling and cement grey walls. Total darkness can be achieved. The Sony looks awesome but I can't help but wonder if the filter would make it even better???

I have my calibration booked for June 30th... I would obviously have to have two calibration presets correct? One with filter on and one with filter off?




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post #480 of 1059 Old 04-22-2015, 03:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rsoares28 View Post
Would you still apply the filter if you had a dedicated Theater room? My setup is in my basement, black ceiling and cement grey walls. Total darkness can be achieved. The Sony looks awesome but I can't help but wonder if the filter would make it even better???

I have my calibration booked for June 30th... I would obviously have to have two calibration presets correct? One with filter on and one with filter off?

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I'm not sure how he can answer that without having a dedicated home theater room but IMO no the filter would not be needed in a proper room. And I think all the glowing reviews would mention it if a filter was needed for most owners.
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