Epson 5030UB vs Sony VPL-HW40ES, anyone else wrestling? - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 1059 Old 09-23-2014, 06:16 AM
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This helps me make my decision I think. I'll be installing in a very large great room with lots of natural light that will be difficult to control well, projecting 106-120 inches from 12-14ft (still working on the details), currently don't care about 3D, and only play a little Guitare Hero or Mario Cart as far as games go. So I guess my biggest concern is which will be the better choice in terms of lack of light control during the day for viewing things like football. Am I missing anything that the Sony has the edge in for my application?

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gsRT5, I think you made a wise purchase. I love the 40es, but for daytime use with light leakage, the 5030 is the easy winner. Plus, any expensive electronic purchase that pleases the wife is a win-win. Good job.
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post #62 of 1059 Old 09-23-2014, 06:22 AM
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Is the 5020 getting the same firmware update that is coming for the 5030? At $1800 certified refurbished by Epson with warranty I would seriously consider the 5020 assuming the only difference is "a tad lower" blacks. Since I have no frame of reference for PJs aside from the crap in the local sports bar I doubt I would be disappointed. And as much as I like to buy the best I can afford, I'm probably not really an extremely critical viewer. This isn't a for dedicated theater room. Is the 5020 as bright as the 5030?

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So I found the epson 5020 refurbish which has the same specs as the 5030 and same great reviews ' It's blacks are just a tad lower than the 5030 but close. You can get them for $1800 and still have a great 3d fp with excellent blacks for $700 less. Sell the 8350 for $500 and have a new fp for $1200. Will update' Have also 30 days to try.

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post #63 of 1059 Old 09-23-2014, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TH3_FRB View Post
Is the 5020 getting the same firmware update that is coming for the 5030? At $1800 certified refurbished by Epson with warranty I would seriously consider the 5020 assuming the only difference is "a tad lower" blacks. Since I have no frame of reference for PJs aside from the crap in the local sports bar I doubt I would be disappointed. And as much as I like to buy the best I can afford, I'm probably not really an extremely critical viewer. This isn't a for dedicated theater room. Is the 5020 as bright as the 5030?
The firmware update is only for the top tier projectors in Epson's current lineup. That's the 6030 and 5030. The 5030 and the 5020 have the same brightness numbers and the same native contrast. (about 4500:1) The 5030's dynamic iris is stronger than the 5020, so can give you double the contrast. (16,000:1 vs. 8,000:1) The 5030 also adds a BLACK AND WHITE CINEMA mode and MHL.
Personally, i would probably opt to save some money and go for the 5020 myself, since the the contrast differences will mostly even out in a non dedicated room, and the brightness levels are the same. I can live without MHL and the B+W mode.
I would also choose a 5020 over the Sony hw40es in a non dedicated room (or non darkened room) because the Sony loses much more contrast in a lighted room. (though i still think the Sony has more uniform color and detail)

Put the Sony in a dark room, and I'd go for it in a heartbeat.
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post #64 of 1059 Old 09-23-2014, 08:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben38 View Post
Put the Sony in a dark room, and I'd go for it in a heartbeat.

Would you elaborate?
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post #65 of 1059 Old 09-23-2014, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
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Would you elaborate?
Sure. When my friend and i were testing his 40es vs. his w1070 for contrast in his white walled living room, we found that the contrast for both projectors looked about equal. (even though the light meters were showing a small advantage to the Sony.) To the Naked eye, we couldn't tell the difference.
When we moved both projectors into his darkroom, (an 18x20 foot black room) the Sony's blacks were very noticeably darker than the w1070. He was so bowled over by the difference that he was finally convinced to repaint his living room in much darker colors to help with the Sony's contrast.

On a different occasion, i was able to compare the 5030 and the w1070 side by side in a non dedicated environment. The 5030 and 1070 were both in their brightest modes, and the 5030 was noticeably brighter and had noticeably deeper black levels with its dynamic iris turned off.

It seems to me that the Epson 5030 and the benqw1070 are both better able to handle a non dedicated room situation than the Sony. The Sony was able to compete neck and neck with the Benq, but at more than 3 times the price it should have been beating the pants off the Benq, and it wasn't. The Epson 5030, on the other hand, had a clear advantage over the Benq. (At 3 times the price, it wasn't beating the pants off the benq either, but it was better)
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post #66 of 1059 Old 09-23-2014, 09:30 AM
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Thanks. based on this conclusin fromt the PC review I think the 5020 is the right choice for me:


The Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 5030UB is, on its face, an incremental improvement to last year's 5020UB. The specifications are similar enough, despite a significant increase in contrast, and there are no groundbreaking new features to differentiate this model from last year's version. However, the small, incremental changes made to the 5030UB come together to create an image that is smoother, more film-like, more three-dimensional, and overall more polished than the image created by last year's projector. And that is saying quite a bit, especially since last year's model was already a compelling, polished home theater projector.

The "smoother, more film-like, more three-dimensional" aspect seesm to be the most significant difference with the 5030 and those aren't praticularly priorities for me since I'll be watching a lot of sports, little to no 3D, and honestly don't even know what "film-like" really means

From my understanding I think I can add a Darbee to get some of the image quality improvements coming from the updated firmware in the 5030.

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The firmware update is only for the top tier projectors in Epson's current lineup. That's the 6030 and 5030. The 5030 and the 5020 have the same brightness numbers and the same native contrast. (about 4500:1) The 5030's dynamic iris is stronger than the 5020, so can give you double the contrast. (16,000:1 vs. 8,000:1) The 5030 also adds a BLACK AND WHITE CINEMA mode and MHL.
Personally, i would probably opt to save some money and go for the 5020 myself, since the the contrast differences will mostly even out in a non dedicated room, and the brightness levels are the same. I can live without MHL and the B+W mode.
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post #67 of 1059 Old 09-23-2014, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks a bunch for that ben38. I do have a light-controlled room so that's a very useful comparison.
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post #68 of 1059 Old 09-23-2014, 09:48 AM
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sorry for my bad english


Yes, but the need of maintenance in the lens, for speck of dust?? in the Epson?

And the no-true 1080p in the W1070 is 1080i ?

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post #69 of 1059 Old 09-23-2014, 10:22 AM
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i got tired to epsons quality problems and i have been battling between 40es and 55es.. got tired of that too and ordered 55es

i have epson eh-tw9100w so its 6020 in US i think.. lamp has been changed 3 times, optical engine 2 times, motherboard 1 time. Convergence has never been quite good in any of my epson projectors. Focus uniformity is bad in this last one it had area which i could not get focused quite center of screen. Horizontal green pixel line has appeared after service every time after a while etc etc.. all of these problems have occurred in 1.5 year of time I've had it. Only one thing is good with Epson and that is warranty for 3 years and its quite fast but so it should with this much problems.
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post #70 of 1059 Old 09-23-2014, 10:56 AM
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Seen both

A friend bought the 5030 and I bought the Sony. He went with the Epson since his concern was blacks. We set them up side by side. I should have taken pics. His screen is huge. It is a 12' 16x9 and he sits about 14' back. Contrast was similar and the brightness was also. He was really disapointed in the Epson in the fact that the Sony has no screen door whatsoever. On his screen at this size the Epson was not as smooth. Both would be great on a smaller screen. If you see artifacts on the Sony, I can't see how the screen door doesn't bother you on the Epson.
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post #71 of 1059 Old 09-23-2014, 01:00 PM
 
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You guys are really giving out false info now on the epson and sony. They both are great. The only real difference in them is what strong points each one offers that suit your needs better. Art at projector review and Bill at Projector central both mention how close these 2 are in providing a killer pic for your HT. If your a gamer they both like the sony' Every review aroung the world says epson does the 3d a littel better and brighter. For movies in a dark room they both look killer. I never saw the noise in the sony or the screendoor in the epson. I do not sit 7 ft from a 10ft screen either which I think to me is juts nuts. Pretty much a toss up. I trust what Art and Bill say and take what most here say with a grain of salt. Not that their is sometimes good info here. My 5020 should be here thursday' I will try it and see what it can do and give a honest review in my setting. This is my 6th projector in 10 years . Hopefully it will fill the void intill the next big thing comes like 4k.
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post #72 of 1059 Old 09-23-2014, 09:36 PM
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I look forward to your review. My Epson 5010 just died...just 6 months out of warranty so I'm looking for something new. Although I have a bad taste in my mouth for Epson right now. Seems like their quality has really tanked over the past few years. And I don't find their customer service good at all. When I told them my projector was just 6 months out of warranty with less than 900 hours, they didn't care. They said I was out of luck basically. I'm willing to give Epson one last chance so I'm hoping you say the 5020 was a good choice...although the Sony sounds compelling.

Travis

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My 5020 should be here thursday' I will try it and see what it can do and give a honest review in my setting. This is my 6th projector in 10 years . Hopefully it will fill the void intill the next big thing comes like 4k.
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post #73 of 1059 Old 09-24-2014, 04:24 AM
 
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Well it is well known the Epson does have the best cutomer service their is. You expect to much. If its out of warranty its out of warranty. They can only do so much. Projectors out a littel fragile compared to other techs. My epson have never had a problem. But that could change any day . You might get the Sony they have a 3 year warranty.
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post #74 of 1059 Old 09-24-2014, 06:30 PM
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I can't really fault Epson customer service here. Where do you propose they draw the line at in terms of extending the warranty? They put a limit on it for a reason. If it's "just 6 months out of warranty" for you then how can they say no to just 7 months or just 9 months for the next guy? I think you'd have a case if it were something like under 30 days out of warranty. Regardless, it's unfortunate that your unit dies after only 2.5 years. I still have the first plasma I bought 8 years ago and it's never had an issue.

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I look forward to your review. My Epson 5010 just died...just 6 months out of warranty so I'm looking for something new. Although I have a bad taste in my mouth for Epson right now. Seems like their quality has really tanked over the past few years. And I don't find their customer service good at all. When I told them my projector was just 6 months out of warranty with less than 900 hours, they didn't care. They said I was out of luck basically. I'm willing to give Epson one last chance so I'm hoping you say the 5020 was a good choice...although the Sony sounds compelling.

Travis
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post #75 of 1059 Old 09-24-2014, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvanslooten View Post
I look forward to your review. My Epson 5010 just died...just 6 months out of warranty so I'm looking for something new. Although I have a bad taste in my mouth for Epson right now. Seems like their quality has really tanked over the past few years. And I don't find their customer service good at all. When I told them my projector was just 6 months out of warranty with less than 900 hours, they didn't care. They said I was out of luck basically. I'm willing to give Epson one last chance so I'm hoping you say the 5020 was a good choice...although the Sony sounds compelling.

Travis
This is why I always buy electronics with a CC that extends the warranty. Of course the other option is buy an extended warranty.
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post #76 of 1059 Old 09-24-2014, 06:45 PM
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I knew the minute I submitted my post someone would say, "I can't blame Epson. You were 6 months out of warranty." lol. I guess you had to be on the numerous calls that I was on to appreciate why I think Epson's customer service sucks so I'll explain in greater detail.

When I called the first time I was on hold for 10 minutes and counting so I hung up.

The next day I called and this time I was able to get through in about 10 minutes. The person I talked to barely spoke English but the first thing she asked me for was the serial number of my projector. This is literally how the call went:

"Thank you for calling Epson. My name is <can't recall>. Can I have the serial number of your projector please."

So I give her the serial number and these were here exact next words:

"I'm sorry, sir, but your projector is out of warranty. There is nothing we can do to resolve your issue. We'll have to refer you to an authorized Epson repair person in your area."

Keep in mind, I hadn't even told her anything about my projector or what my issue was. She couldn't tell me fast enough that it wasn't their problem.I'm out of warranty...that's fine...but you don't have to rub it in.

Then it took her another 15 minutes to get me the name and number of an Epson dealer in my area.

The other thing that happened is I ordered a filter from Epson for this projector. They sent me an empty box - literally an empty box. It took two phone calls over a period of two days to get them to send me the actual filter I ordered.

I realize my projector was out of warranty. That's not my complaint. My complaint is that Epson's customer service sucks. I shouldn't have to make so many calls to get stuff resolved. And sending me an empty box? Really? And what really pissed me off is I paid for expedited shipping for nothing as it took them an entire week to get me the filter.

Either way, I'm probably going to give Epson one last shot. If the next projector fails, I'll never buy an Epson projector again. But I'm not buying for a minute that Epson's customer service is great. That wasn't my experience at all.

Travis
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post #77 of 1059 Old 09-24-2014, 09:58 PM
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That's odd. I've found Epson's customer service to be extraordinarily exceptional. Your case is definitely an exception to the rule.
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post #78 of 1059 Old 10-28-2014, 09:58 PM
 
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Hi guys, Im also torn between the Epson 5030 and Sony hw40. My previous projector was a Panasonic AE7000. Im not much into 3D. My main priority is movie watching and around 10% PS4 gaming. Which of the two would give a plasma like picture quality? Thanks so much :-)
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post #79 of 1059 Old 10-28-2014, 11:41 PM
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If gaming is a consideration.....Sony!
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post #80 of 1059 Old 10-29-2014, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpepper007 View Post
AV intergrated have you seen both the 5030 and hw40. All projectors have issues. Their are thousands more 5030 out in the field than the hw40 so their will be more problems reported. Epson does have the best support and 48 hour replacement. Why do you prefer the hw40 with its inferior blacks. Thanks
Epson has had several years running with high numbers of complaints about lamp issues, but I'm actually a big fan of their products. I don't buy (or recommend) a projector based entirely on reliability, or on customer service. Those things are part of the package, and there are Sony owners who have claimed excellent service as well. So, while Epson may be better, why would I want to call anyone at all.

As to 'inferior blacks' on the Sony... It's very questionable. In almost all cases the Sony looks identical to the Epson. There are some cases where the Epson can outperform the Sony. But, it does so using a dynamic iris, which is not only a point of failure, but can be noticeable. I've seen the 5020 and noticed the iris, I've seen in on the AE8000 as well. This isn't a feature I want to have to use to get the most out of a projector, so I give Sony points for that.

Likewise, I don't like how LCD handles motion. Once again the AE8000 and 5020 are the examples I use, but I've personally owned a couple of Panasonics and it remains the case that LCD doesn't handle motion as clean as LCoS does from what I've seen. I think my W1070 does a better job than either tech with DLP, but the black levels aren't very good. So, for me, LCoS is my preference.

Now, I'm not an avid 3D viewer, but enjoy it from time to time. But, that doesn't play into my decisions at all. I've seen 3D on a JVC RS46 and it was completely acceptable. Certainly better than what movie theaters deliver. So, I don't buy into the hoopla of 'bad' 3D. It's all very good quality across all these models.

Since I don't game, or at least seriously game, on projectors, the lag time isn't an issue for me as well.

So, at the end of the day I prefer the Sony and recommend it over the Epson. I don't think it is a clear cut winner, and I don't deny the quality of the Epson. But, I don't pick the Sony blindly either as a preferred model.

In the next couple of weeks (or month) I am hoping to test the Sony directly against the W1070 on my 161" screen.

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post #81 of 1059 Old 10-29-2014, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louie_18 View Post
Hi guys, Im also torn between the Epson 5030 and Sony hw40. My previous projector was a Panasonic AE7000. Im not much into 3D. My main priority is movie watching and around 10% PS4 gaming. Which of the two would give a plasma like picture quality? Thanks so much :-)
As Crabalocker said, if gaming is even the slightest consideration, get the Sony. The 5030 and HW40 are extremely similar in picture quality with little differences. Both will make you think you're watching a HUGE LED TV. I would recommend the Sony if you need any of the following criteria met:

Gaming / extremely low lag
Quiet fan
no screen door effect

Get the Sony this week, while it's on sale and save yourself $500.
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post #82 of 1059 Old 10-29-2014, 10:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Gaming was one of my needs, so even though I had previous positive Epson experience I got the Sony.

Screen door effect wasn't even on my list of issues, but now that it is gone... Holy cow. The Sony sure looks nice. I'm very happy with it.
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post #83 of 1059 Old 10-29-2014, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louie_18 View Post
Hi guys, Im also torn between the Epson 5030 and Sony hw40. My previous projector was a Panasonic AE7000. Im not much into 3D. My main priority is movie watching and around 10% PS4 gaming. Which of the two would give a plasma like picture quality? Thanks so much :-)
I loved my Epson 8100 so I figured the 5030 was a no brainer. When I saw the Sony on sale, I thought why not try both and see what I like better. Well, both my wife and agree the Sony was the better projector/picture. Gaming did not factor in the decision all though I do have a PS3 that gets used very occasionally. The Sony just looked better to both of us and I love the silence!
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post #84 of 1059 Old 10-29-2014, 10:56 AM
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I will be sitting anywhere from 10-14 feet from around a 120 inch screen. I have been pretty certain that I would be getting the Epson 5030 but now I'm not so sure. SDE was always a concern. However I am looking forward to watching 3d occasionally and the fact that the sony uses IR for the glasses and the Epson uses RF. At least that is my understanding. I have to admit though not having to worry about SDE and the silence of the sony is appealing. I still have a few months before I can consider purchasing anything but now I'm not so sure what to do.


Oh also. How does the lens shift compare on the Sony to the Epson? I know the Epson has quite a bit of flexibility in that department.

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post #85 of 1059 Old 10-29-2014, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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The Sony IR glasses so far seem to work OK. I have a 135" 1.0 screen and sit 9-12 feet back.

The Sony PS3-branded IR glasses seem to work better than the TDG-PJ1 glasses. I found that the TDG-PJ1 would lose sync for a second every few minutes if I did not sit close to the center of the screen. The PS3 glasses were more tolerant of being off-axis. A screen with higher gain might see the TDG-PJ1 glasses work better off-axis. The PS3 glasses are only about $16 though, so I don't think there is a big reason to try to make the TDG-PJ1 work better.

You can switch the Sony to RF if you buy $220 of gadgets from XPAND. I am going to try living with IR first and see how it goes. So far, so good.
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post #86 of 1059 Old 10-29-2014, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gec5741 View Post
I will be sitting anywhere from 10-14 feet from around a 120 inch screen. I have been pretty certain that I would be getting the Epson 5030 but now I'm not so sure. SDE was always a concern. However I am looking forward to watching 3d occasionally and the fact that the sony uses IR for the glasses and the Epson uses RF. At least that is my understanding. I have to admit though not having to worry about SDE and the silence of the sony is appealing. I still have a few months before I can consider purchasing anything but now I'm not so sure what to do.


Oh also. How does the lens shift compare on the Sony to the Epson? I know the Epson has quite a bit of flexibility in that department.
The Sony doesn't have the same lens shift range as the Epson. It can be placed as high as 20% of the screen height above the top of the image (according to Projector Central review). So, it could be 10" above the top of a 50" tall screen.

The Epson can be placed as much as 100% of the screen height above the top of the image. So, it could be 50" above the top of a 50" tall screen.

No manufacturer that I know of has more placement flexibility than Epson with their lens.

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post #87 of 1059 Old 10-29-2014, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by horseflesh View Post
Gaming was one of my needs, so even though I had previous positive Epson experience I got the Sony.

Screen door effect wasn't even on my list of issues, but now that it is gone... Holy cow. The Sony sure looks nice. I'm very happy with it.
Funny you mention that. I had an Epson HC2000 before this HW40. I know they're in 2 different classes and the Epson is more entry-level but I was happy with it and never noticed any screen door effect (SDE). Since I game a lot, the lag bothered me and I didn't like how FAST mode softened the image. But ... just figured it was something I'd have to live with and (since this was my first projector) figured it was a trade-off to having the HUGE screen. Then I saw this Sony at a friends house and everything changed. It looked as clear as my Sony LED TV! Once I got home and turned on the Epson, I suddenly saw the SDE and then couldn't un-see it! Started to bug me once I knew I could get a projector without it. Also, my Epson's fan was fairly audible in my small theater room so the thought of the near-silent Sony was very appealing. The final straw was Motion Enhance and oh how it smoothed out the image! I had to get the Sony. Altho the 5030 is comparable, I didn't even consider it due to the high lag levels, SDE and fan noise. So, I sold my Epson, got the Sony and never looked back. No regrets and couldn't be happier! 3D, gaming and movies never looked better!

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post #88 of 1059 Old 10-29-2014, 02:02 PM
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Such a tough decision! The IR glasses thing kind of bugs me but I'm not sure how much it would even be a factor seeing I don't yet have and have never owned a projector. I don't know how often I'd watch 3d but I really do like the option to be able to watch 3d and I'd like it to be the best experience I can get since this will be the last pj I purchase for a good few years! Eventually I'll upgrade but it will definitely be a while. Now with the Epson the screen door thing (SDE) scares me. Again not having a pj ever I'm not sure how much this will actually be a concern in my room once set up if I did get the Epson. I wish I could take them both home on a trial and see what I preferred! As long as there is some wiggle room with lens **** I'll be ok. I'm quite certain I did a pretty good job on where the PJ will be located and should not need to **** it a ton. As long as It can be adjusted to a point.
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post #89 of 1059 Old 10-29-2014, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by gec5741 View Post
Such a tough decision! The IR glasses thing kind of bugs me but I'm not sure how much it would even be a factor seeing I don't yet have and have never owned a projector. I don't know how often I'd watch 3d but I really do like the option to be able to watch 3d and I'd like it to be the best experience I can get since this will be the last pj I purchase for a good few years! Eventually I'll upgrade but it will definitely be a while. Now with the Epson the screen door thing (SDE) scares me. Again not having a pj ever I'm not sure how much this will actually be a concern in my room once set up if I did get the Epson. I wish I could take them both home on a trial and see what I preferred! As long as there is some wiggle room with lens **** I'll be ok. I'm quite certain I did a pretty good job on where the PJ will be located and should not need to **** it a ton. As long as It can be adjusted to a point.
The screen door on the Epson is not that bad, but, not having it with the Sony is nice. Do what I did, order them both and see what works best for you.
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post #90 of 1059 Old 10-29-2014, 02:58 PM
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You guys are really giving out false info now on the epson and sony. They both are great. The only real difference in them is what strong points each one offers that suit your needs better. Art at projector review and Bill at Projector central both mention how close these 2 are in providing a killer pic for your HT. If your a gamer they both like the sony' Every review aroung the world says epson does the 3d a littel better and brighter. For movies in a dark room they both look killer. I never saw the noise in the sony or the screendoor in the epson. I do not sit 7 ft from a 10ft screen either which I think to me is juts nuts. Pretty much a toss up. I trust what Art and Bill say and take what most here say with a grain of salt. Not that their is sometimes good info here. My 5020 should be here thursday' I will try it and see what it can do and give a honest review in my setting. This is my 6th projector in 10 years . Hopefully it will fill the void intill the next big thing comes like 4k.
I would like to know what misinformation you're referring to.

What makes your honest review any different than everyone else's honest review?
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