Projector in well lit family room... - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 3Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 34 Old 12-30-2014, 06:59 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Cuda1447's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Projector in well lit family room...

I realize light is the enemy. I've also read some interesting things about black screens that do a very good job of reflecting ambient lighting. I would LOVE to replace my LCD with a projector. The problem is my family room is not ideal at all. I'm willing to make *some* changes to remedy that, but my wife may object to anything to major. For one, the walls are a light blue. Not a dark color. The floor is a light wood color, not a darker carpet. We also have two very large glass doors going out to our patio and 4 windows above the doors that let in light. In short, it's a very well lit room. I can get curtains to cover the glass doors during the day. The upper windows will be much more difficult to address. Turning off the lights, at least in this room is not a problem at all.

I've looked at the cinegray 5d screens and read great things about them. I've watched some youtube videos of people with lights fully on and they say the image is still very good. My question really, is what is very good?

When the lights are off and it is dark in the room, I want an excellent image. On par, or better than a current LCD tv. When the lights are on (although we will try to control them) I still want the tv to be good quality. I don't want to watch a washed out image while watching football on a sunday afternoon. If it isn't very close to a low to mid tier LCD, then I don't think it would be worth it.

Anyone have any experience with this?
Cuda1447 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 34 Old 12-30-2014, 07:52 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
steve1106's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Northern, Va
Posts: 2,139
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 832 Post(s)
Liked: 555
This is what sold me on a projector. A $300ish SVGA verses my 70 inch Sharp in my family room on the untreated white wall. Plus a picture of the tv during the day with the blinds open. A projector would never work during the day in this room.


As to quality, I think it compares well with a TV, but will it be as sharp in an untreated room as the image produced by the little TV, no...but size matters.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	roomresize.jpg
Views:	359
Size:	192.6 KB
ID:	451034   Click image for larger version

Name:	roomresize1017.jpg
Views:	359
Size:	129.7 KB
ID:	451050   Click image for larger version

Name:	30c00d52_2014roomsnow2002.jpg
Views:	304
Size:	130.8 KB
ID:	451058   Click image for larger version

Name:	scott.png
Views:	1066
Size:	164.3 KB
ID:	451066  
steve1106 is offline  
post #3 of 34 Old 12-30-2014, 08:11 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
LowellG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Helotes, TX
Posts: 2,206
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 595 Post(s)
Liked: 221
I have heard the gray or darker screens do help with that. I did a couple shot in my HT. One is lights all on, the other is lights all off. I did set my room up so I can have the lights up front off on one switch while the lights in back are on. It works well. As for screen size and sports, bigger is much better.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	photo 1.jpg
Views:	360
Size:	132.9 KB
ID:	451114   Click image for larger version

Name:	photo 2.jpg
Views:	290
Size:	82.9 KB
ID:	451122  

Lowell


The MarvelAtmos Home Theater: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...e-theater.html
LowellG is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 34 Old 12-30-2014, 08:12 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
LowellG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Helotes, TX
Posts: 2,206
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 595 Post(s)
Liked: 221
The pics don't look nears as good as the real picture. I don't know why them came out so bad, but you can tell the lighting issue.

Lowell


The MarvelAtmos Home Theater: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...e-theater.html
LowellG is offline  
post #5 of 34 Old 12-30-2014, 08:13 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
airscapes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,031
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 518 Post(s)
Liked: 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuda1447 View Post
I realize light is the enemy. I've also read some interesting things about black screens that do a very good job of reflecting ambient lighting. I would LOVE to replace my LCD with a projector. The problem is my family room is not ideal at all. I'm willing to make *some* changes to remedy that, but my wife may object to anything to major. For one, the walls are a light blue. Not a dark color. The floor is a light wood color, not a darker carpet. We also have two very large glass doors going out to our patio and 4 windows above the doors that let in light. In short, it's a very well lit room. I can get curtains to cover the glass doors during the day. The upper windows will be much more difficult to address. Turning off the lights, at least in this room is not a problem at all.

I've looked at the cinegray 5d screens and read great things about them. I've watched some youtube videos of people with lights fully on and they say the image is still very good. My question really, is what is very good?

When the lights are off and it is dark in the room, I want an excellent image. On par, or better than a current LCD tv. When the lights are on (although we will try to control them) I still want the tv to be good quality. I don't want to watch a washed out image while watching football on a sunday afternoon. If it isn't very close to a low to mid tier LCD, then I don't think it would be worth it.

Anyone have any experience with this?
Hang a piece of printer paper on the wall where you want the screen to be, adjust the lights how you want them and then look at the paper. What you are looking at is the darkest part of any image on the screen.. There are specialty screens that help but they introduce other artifacts that you will need to accept when lights are off.
As Scotty has said "Yacannot change the rules of Physics"

If you are ok with nothing darker in your projected image than that paper then you will be happy..

Doug
Planar PD8150 with DC4 DMD paired with a Dalite HP 2.8 120"
http://www.airscapesart.com

 
airscapes is offline  
post #6 of 34 Old 12-30-2014, 08:38 PM
Member
 
TheYoshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 82
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Check out some of the screens from SI, I recently helped a buddy install one and it's pretty good at dealing with the less than ideal lighting scenarios in his room.

That said, nothing is going to work miracles. LCD is going to be almost impossible to match with a projector in a room with poor light control.
TheYoshi is offline  
post #7 of 34 Old 12-30-2014, 09:39 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
AV_Integrated's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Northern, VA - Washington, DC
Posts: 6,649
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1656 Post(s)
Liked: 1202
I just looked again, at the Screen Innovations Black Diamond (1.4) screen today, and it remains about the worst looking screen I have ever seen. Terrible edge to edge uniformity and significant 'sparkling' in the image. I would never considering putting this model in my home. Ever. I have not seen the Cinegray 5d screens and won't comment on them.

I'm not a huge fan of stuffing a projector into a lit room and hearing that anyone expects 'a great image' at any time. By decreeing that you are using something designed for dark areas in a light room, you have to accept that there will need to be compromise. The black screens I've seen have compromise built in with their high price tag and image issues. But, it remains the case that the best solution is a smaller screen size and light control in the room. Spending money on light control instead of a fancy screen, in the long run may not yield as much contrast for daytime use, but will provide a more natural image overall. You will take a hit on some areas, but will free up budget and improve (IMO) the overall viewing experience by just trying your best to keep the screen area as dark as possible when viewing.
Ftoast likes this.

AV Integrated - Theater, whole house audio, and technology installation in the Washington DC metro area.
AV_Integrated is offline  
post #8 of 34 Old 12-31-2014, 01:40 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,622
Mentioned: 104 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2720 Post(s)
Liked: 908
Your room colors mean getting a higher-end projector for fantastic blacks would be a waste,but it's still very possible to have a good image in the room with lights on. Sports are especially forgiving and should look fine on a plain screen as long as you do a couple things.
Lights are okay, but block the sun out as priority number one.
Keep as much light off the screen itself as possible.
Leave the screen a modest size..something in the 90"-110" range most likely.

For movies with darker scenes you'll still want to keep the lights down to an absolute minimum for the darker contrast to remain its most visible.


If you're really itching for a light-fighting screen and feeling a little handy, give the DIY screen section a look. A white screen with a little room treatment is the better-looking option than a room band-aid screen, but a band-aid that costs $40-140 beats paying $2500 for the same look.
But curtains and a couple lamps with spotlights are even simpler to setup and achieve a better image with enough light to read by.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

Last edited by Ftoast; 12-31-2014 at 01:56 AM.
Ftoast is offline  
post #9 of 34 Old 12-31-2014, 05:21 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Cuda1447's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
Your room colors mean getting a higher-end projector for fantastic blacks would be a waste,but it's still very possible to have a good image in the room with lights on. Sports are especially forgiving and should look fine on a plain screen as long as you do a couple things.
Lights are okay, but block the sun out as priority number one.
Keep as much light off the screen itself as possible.
Leave the screen a modest size..something in the 90"-110" range most likely.

For movies with darker scenes you'll still want to keep the lights down to an absolute minimum for the darker contrast to remain its most visible.


If you're really itching for a light-fighting screen and feeling a little handy, give the DIY screen section a look. A white screen with a little room treatment is the better-looking option than a room band-aid screen, but a band-aid that costs $40-140 beats paying $2500 for the same look.
But curtains and a couple lamps with spotlights are even simpler to setup and achieve a better image with enough light to read by.
So I'm guessing that light control is a better option. I just thought it wouldn't really be possible to get good light control in my situation, but perhaps it is.

The room is very large. The distance from viewing area to screen is probably around 18'. The projector would be mounted just behind me, so a good distance throw. I was hoping to get around a 120" screen, but am willing to go smaller if needed. The ceiling is about 13' high behind me, but above the tv/projector wall its closer to 20'. The lights in the room are recessed into the ceiling, so not directly on the screen. In addition, typically I can just turn on the lights in the kitchen and it'll give us enough light in our main room most of the time. The biggest obstacle is the wood colored floors (although I do have a rug in front of the tv that covers about 70% of the floor in this area, the light blue walls and the white ceilings. Those won't be changed, the wife won't allow it I'm sure. Being that the room is very large though, I'm hoping enough light is dispersed upward toward the high ceilings that it gets lost and not reflected back to the screen. Which just leaves one thing to contend with, the big ass windows right next to me. I could probably get some dark curtains to cover the sliding glass doors. The upper windows I couldn't do that with. They don't allow light directly in, typically, as the patio roof partly obscures some of the sunlight that would normally come straight in those windows. I'll still get light, but nothing direct or drastic.


What else am I missing here? Sorry for all the questions, its just so difficult to tell just how good/bad something will be from descriptions and pictures on the internet don't typically represent the actual end result exceedingly well.
Cuda1447 is offline  
post #10 of 34 Old 12-31-2014, 06:53 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
airscapes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,031
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 518 Post(s)
Liked: 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuda1447 View Post
So I'm guessing that light control is a better option. I just thought it wouldn't really be possible to get good light control in my situation, but perhaps it is.

The room is very large. The distance from viewing area to screen is probably around 18'. The projector would be mounted just behind me, so a good distance throw. I was hoping to get around a 120" screen, but am willing to go smaller if needed. The ceiling is about 13' high behind me, but above the tv/projector wall its closer to 20'. The lights in the room are recessed into the ceiling, so not directly on the screen. In addition, typically I can just turn on the lights in the kitchen and it'll give us enough light in our main room most of the time. The biggest obstacle is the wood colored floors (although I do have a rug in front of the tv that covers about 70% of the floor in this area, the light blue walls and the white ceilings. Those won't be changed, the wife won't allow it I'm sure. Being that the room is very large though, I'm hoping enough light is dispersed upward toward the high ceilings that it gets lost and not reflected back to the screen. Which just leaves one thing to contend with, the big ass windows right next to me. I could probably get some dark curtains to cover the sliding glass doors. The upper windows I couldn't do that with. They don't allow light directly in, typically, as the patio roof partly obscures some of the sunlight that would normally come straight in those windows. I'll still get light, but nothing direct or drastic.


What else am I missing here? Sorry for all the questions, its just so difficult to tell just how good/bad something will be from descriptions and pictures on the internet don't typically represent the actual end result exceedingly well.
Light Control means No light from other sources INCLUDING Reflected light from the screen off the White/Light walls, ceiling and floor.
Again, do the paper test, projectors do not project Black and there is a lot of detail in shadows which are dark.. Also.. think about the last time you went to the movies.. what did the room look like? How much light was on during the movie? Where there reflections off the ceiling or walls?
There is a reason for this..

Rule of thumb for a mixed use room is dark non reflective paint/fabric within 5' of the screen. No light on in the room from any other source.

Maybe this will help make the point... I would rather watch a 46" LCD TV during the day than my 110" projection screen due to the light that come into the room from the dinning room to the right. A single lamp in the room ruins it for me.. I am also not willing to compromise the way things look to put up curtains between the livingroom and dinning room..
With the type of room you have, you have to be willing be making many compromises which will include room changes that the wife may not allow.


For instance my living room is white during non projection time except for the ceiling which is permanent.
Day time there is no wall treatment in place and we use the TV. At night the TV goes against the wall and the wall treatments are put in place.

DAY TIME





Night Time


Doug
Planar PD8150 with DC4 DMD paired with a Dalite HP 2.8 120"
http://www.airscapesart.com

 

Last edited by airscapes; 12-31-2014 at 07:04 AM.
airscapes is offline  
post #11 of 34 Old 12-31-2014, 07:49 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,622
Mentioned: 104 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2720 Post(s)
Liked: 908
The Epson 3000 should fit both your throw and your brightness needs for just over $1000. I think you will still be very happy using the room with its current colors like you said with the light coming from the next room..this is exactly how I'm setup in the familyroom right now with a 110" white screen and most TV/sports are perfectly enjoyable in the white-walled/ceiling/carpet room with the lights on in all the openly surrounding rooms because most of that light brightens the room with ambience instead of directly hitting the screen.

Does the dark-surface treated dedicated room look better? Yes, but the familyroom still looks completely fine at night. My problem is a total lack of curtains for daytime use.
With how well the sun lights up the general area even indirectly because of its immense power and the white walls/everything, watching in the daytime is rare in this room because the lack of curtains.

Good light-blocking curtains aren't expensive and they ARE available in many light colors as well. I'd strongly recommend you see if you and your significant other could compromise on having all the windows in the room setup with some manner of curtain in a decor matching cheery color.

Also, if you can get a chance to demo a projector in there (perhaps a friend or relative's or maybe from work) that will give a very rough idea of what to expect.
It's always best to buy somewhere with a good return policy just in case, but having a rough idea of what to expect that you can see with your own eyes never hurts when available.
kreeturez likes this.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
post #12 of 34 Old 12-31-2014, 08:45 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 235
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 108 Post(s)
Liked: 64
perhaps in your case you would be better off with keeping your LCD for daytime viewing and having a pulldown screen come down in front of it for nighttime viewing.
kreeturez likes this.
pitpat is offline  
post #13 of 34 Old 12-31-2014, 08:59 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
kreeturez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,375
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 505 Post(s)
Liked: 406
Projector in well lit family room...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pitpat View Post
perhaps in your case you would be better off with keeping your LCD for daytime viewing and having a pulldown screen come down in front of it for nighttime viewing.

Agreed. For now, at least.

Either the Mrs will cave when daytime viewing is so compromised, that she'll consider at least some kind of control for the uncovered windows; or you'll find yourself watching only at night; or you'll want to keep your TV in the room for daytime viewing.

In any of these cases, it's going to be much cheaper - and better looking as far as picture quality - to control the light than it is to find a specialized screen (and possibly projector) to compensate for the room...

BenQ HT2050A Projector; Kodi (on Ubuntu, OpenELEC & S802) via Sony STR-DH540 AVR with Boston Acoustics SoundWare XS SE 5.1 Audio + Jamo 210 Sub. Emby for Mobile Streaming.
kreeturez is offline  
post #14 of 34 Old 12-31-2014, 09:09 AM
Senior Member
 
Mattcc22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Jacksonville / Orange Park, FL
Posts: 291
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 185 Post(s)
Liked: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by pitpat View Post
perhaps in your case you would be better off with keeping your LCD for daytime viewing and having a pulldown screen come down in front of it for nighttime viewing.
Exactly what I do in my Living Room. Horrible picture I know, but it's the best I have on my phone currently. I just upgraded to a 65" Samsung LED for daytime viewing, but I usually fire up the projector when the sun starts going down. Epson 8100 and a 120" white electric screen. Looks very good at night, but pretty much unwatchable during the day even with bright sporting events.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20141103_201600.jpg
Views:	231
Size:	190.8 KB
ID:	451834  
Mattcc22 is offline  
post #15 of 34 Old 12-31-2014, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Cuda1447's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by kreeturez View Post
Agreed. For now, at least.

Either the Mrs will cave when daytime viewing is so compromised, that she'll consider at least some kind of control for the uncovered windows; or you'll find yourself watching only at night; or you'll want to keep your TV in the room for daytime viewing.

In any of these cases, it's going to be much cheaper - and better looking as far as picture quality - to control the light than it is to find a specialized screen (and possibly projector) to compensate for the room...

The wife would be willing to make some concessions in order to make daytime and night time viewing good. She would be on board with a total budget of $2,000 or less IF the quality was there. As you can see from my pictures below, I have a few issues. I cannot really do a tv during the day and projector at night, as I have nothing to mount the projector from to drop down. The Ceiling goes to a 2nd level of the house. You can see the distance to my current tv (58") and how small that tv looks. If I were to get good curtains for the windows to the right, would that be sufficient to enjoy a good experience in the day? I'm worried that the light colored floors and walls would cause to many issues.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	10408503_978242535523958_2160386465896048963_n.jpg
Views:	174
Size:	63.7 KB
ID:	451898   Click image for larger version

Name:	10885443_978242505523961_200968748672213006_n.jpg
Views:	165
Size:	63.7 KB
ID:	451906   Click image for larger version

Name:	10689655_978242488857296_1535683353039582362_n.jpg
Views:	177
Size:	119.6 KB
ID:	451914  
Cuda1447 is offline  
post #16 of 34 Old 12-31-2014, 09:26 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
kreeturez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,375
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 505 Post(s)
Liked: 406
Projector in well lit family room...

You know, those walls actually aren't so bad as far as color: certainly less reflective than white.

Also, the uncontrolled windows are flanked by your outside roofing which means you don't get sunlight streaming through them, do you?

Ambient light means you'll have a problem besting your current TV, but at night I'd expect it to look rather good.

BenQ HT2050A Projector; Kodi (on Ubuntu, OpenELEC & S802) via Sony STR-DH540 AVR with Boston Acoustics SoundWare XS SE 5.1 Audio + Jamo 210 Sub. Emby for Mobile Streaming.
kreeturez is offline  
post #17 of 34 Old 12-31-2014, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Cuda1447's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by kreeturez View Post
You know, those walls actually aren't so bad as far as color: certainly less reflective than white.

Also, the uncontrolled windows are flanked by your outside roofing which means you don't get sunlight streaming through them, do you?

Ambient light means you'll have a problem besting your current TV, but at night I'd expect it to look rather good.
The roof does typically block most direct light through the top windows. Also, with the way the house is angled, the sun doesn't set/rise directly behind me, it's more at an angle. So typically, due to the tree line in a distance, we don't get much direct sunlight.

I don't necessarily want to have a better picture than my current tv, just comparable. I'm not a cinephile, but I do value a good picture. If I could get 90% of the performance I currently have, but at twice the size, I'd be very happy. I just worry that, during the day, I'm going to have 50% of the performance or worse. And I watch a lot of sports on the weekends during the day.
Cuda1447 is offline  
post #18 of 34 Old 12-31-2014, 09:50 AM
Senior Member
 
Mattcc22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Jacksonville / Orange Park, FL
Posts: 291
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 185 Post(s)
Liked: 173
You could build or have built a shelf to hang the screen from. The shelf you see in my picture above was built by my dad and me.
Mattcc22 is offline  
post #19 of 34 Old 12-31-2014, 10:40 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Cuda1447's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattcc22 View Post
You could build or have built a shelf to hang the screen from. The shelf you see in my picture above was built by my dad and me.
I don't think the wife will let me do that. Unfortunately. Another option, albeit not my favorite, is to put the projector in my office. It's a 12x12 room, but has a big open wall I could put a retractable screen on. Paint is darker, one window with minimal light coming in that can easily be draped. The only problem is I'll be sitting 10 feet from the screen and it'll be much more crowded than my living room. Certainly won't be used as often.
Cuda1447 is offline  
post #20 of 34 Old 12-31-2014, 11:22 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
airscapes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,031
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 518 Post(s)
Liked: 432
Here is what I would do. Your TV looks to be on a wall mount. So only 5 -10 sticking out when pushed back. The major screen manufactures do sell extension mounts to hang a screen from a wall but extended it out 12" or more. Keep you TV where it is until you get the outside light controlled and use the screen at night. http://www.quill.com/da-lite-mountin...bs/355587.html for instance.
Your ceiling is not a reflection issues, the color is not so bad for the one side wall and the floor will be at least 30" from the screen and should not cause major impact. This will get you in the game and you can chip away a any issues as you go.

Doug
Planar PD8150 with DC4 DMD paired with a Dalite HP 2.8 120"
http://www.airscapesart.com

 
airscapes is offline  
post #21 of 34 Old 12-31-2014, 11:29 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
AV_Integrated's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Northern, VA - Washington, DC
Posts: 6,649
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1656 Post(s)
Liked: 1202
You will want/need some serious curtains for those windows. That would be where my budget would go.

Your long throw distance will also be a factor to consider.

18' lens to screen to a 120" diagonal image?

http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...sort=pop&sz=15

42 models.

But, change the distance to 20' lens to screen, and you drop to 18 models...
http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...sort=pop&sz=15

You need to accurately measure from the spot you intend to hang the projector to the wall you want to project onto.

I might start with a model like the Epson 8350 for just watching TV and casual gaming.
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Epso...inema_8350.htm

It's inexpensive and allows you to get a decent screen as well as leaving you some money to get some good curtains in place.

AV Integrated - Theater, whole house audio, and technology installation in the Washington DC metro area.
AV_Integrated is offline  
post #22 of 34 Old 12-31-2014, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Cuda1447's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Just measured the living room. It's 20' wall to wall almost exactly. Perhaps this would be a better idea to go with a smaller budget and throw a 80inch screen in my office instead...
Cuda1447 is offline  
post #23 of 34 Old 12-31-2014, 12:58 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
airscapes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,031
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 518 Post(s)
Liked: 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuda1447 View Post
Just measured the living room. It's 20' wall to wall almost exactly. Perhaps this would be a better idea to go with a smaller budget and throw a 80inch screen in my office instead...
Projectors can be set up on low tables in front of your seating, or a free standing cabinet behind seating depending on the lens shift capability.

Doug
Planar PD8150 with DC4 DMD paired with a Dalite HP 2.8 120"
http://www.airscapesart.com

 
airscapes is offline  
post #24 of 34 Old 12-31-2014, 02:33 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,622
Mentioned: 104 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2720 Post(s)
Liked: 908
Would a short-throw like the w1080/1085 set on a small table be an option?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
post #25 of 34 Old 12-31-2014, 04:54 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Cuda1447's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
Would a short-throw like the w1080/1085 set on a small table be an option?
I don't see why not? I just make a small mark on the floor and put it in place when using the projector? Or can I use the table to the left of my couch? Does it have to be dead center of the screen?
Cuda1447 is offline  
post #26 of 34 Old 12-31-2014, 11:11 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Cuda1447's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 10
So I've been doing a lot of reading today. Perhaps its all marketing, but I've read a ton of reviews on the black screens (specifically the Black Diamond and Cinegray 5D) that basically state they can provide a very good image during the day with windows open. Now, I'm sure they aren't getting direct sunlight on the screens, but it certainly seems like a good deal of ambient light is in these rooms and they still have (or claim to have) very good images on the screens. I've read a few comparisons that state the Cinegray 5D is fairly comparable to a Black Diamond (maybe a little lower quality), but about a third of the price.

For instance, this review.

Now, is this all marketing BS, or is there some truth to these claims? It seems like this would be the ideal solution.
Cuda1447 is offline  
post #27 of 34 Old 01-01-2015, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Cuda1447's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 10
http://hometheaterreview.com/si-scre...viewed/?page=2


There is another review which seems to be from a reputable source, basically stating that the Black Diamond allows comparable performance an an LCD or Plasma for daytime viewing.
Cuda1447 is offline  
post #28 of 34 Old 01-01-2015, 08:33 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
airscapes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,031
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 518 Post(s)
Liked: 432
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuda1447 View Post
http://hometheaterreview.com/si-scre...viewed/?page=2


There is another review which seems to be from a reputable source, basically stating that the Black Diamond allows comparable performance an an LCD or Plasma for daytime viewing.
Please take the time to read this document, completely. This is a non biased review of most of the popular screen materials along with highly accurate measurements. This was produced by one of the forums professional display calibrators and may help you understand the compromises you will make with a specially screen.
http://www.accucalhd.com/documents/a...een_report.pdf

Doug
Planar PD8150 with DC4 DMD paired with a Dalite HP 2.8 120"
http://www.airscapesart.com

 
airscapes is offline  
post #29 of 34 Old 01-01-2015, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Cuda1447's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 28
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post
Please take the time to read this document, completely. This is a non biased review of most of the popular screen materials along with highly accurate measurements. This was produced by one of the forums professional display calibrators and my help you understand the compromises you will make with a specially screen.
http://www.accucalhd.com/documents/a...een_report.pdf

Thanks Doug, I'll read through it.
Cuda1447 is offline  
post #30 of 34 Old 01-01-2015, 11:13 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 4,367
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1889 Post(s)
Liked: 1089
I'd consider a Firehawk over the Black Diamond for your room. The Firehawk tends to do better with light coming from the side while the Black Diamond does better with light from above plus it has less artifacts. If you can use drapes than a less aggressive material like the Tiburon would be good. You do have a good situation for one of these screens as your throw distance and appears seating are not too close. You do need a bright projector, I would consider the Epson 3500 instead of the 3000. The added lumens would be beneficial and worth the extra money. The 3500 would work as it has about a 19' throw for a 123" diagonal screen (A Stewart Cima size). You can't really go with a smaller screen and that projector, there are longer throw and brighter models but the cost goes up.


A bit about a screens. No screen company regardless of claims has beaten physics. Whenever you have a screen with gain you will have some artifacts and a reduced viewing cone. To clarify gain is not the overall screen gain but the gain of the coating which is not usually given but you can get a rough idea by viewing cone. For instance a studiotech 130 has a 1.3 gain and a wider viewing cone than the firehawk, yet the firehawk has less of a gain. The studiotech 130 is a about a 1.0 base material with a 1.3 gain, while the firehawk is about a .6-.7 base material with about 1.5-1.6 gain. The Black Diamond has a bigger gain so it rejects more light but has a smaller viewing cone and more artifacts. Similar to car headlights where you have round and rectangular ones and it will change the light dispersion, the gain coatings can be applied to have more vertical or horizontal dispersion or even in all directions like the round headlights. All of these gain/ light rejecting screens work better with longer throws and seating distances. Usually throws of 1.5 times the width are recommended and for higher gain coatings even further. Although, some manufacturers claim they will work with shorter throws, it just means they don't look as bad as other models at shorter throws. They all benefit from longer throws.


There are of course other factors like the smoothness of material and coating, the uniformity of material, etc. But, if you know the color of the screen (white, gray, black) and the viewing cone you can get a good idea of a screen's properties. A darker base material will help with black levels and gain will help overall brightness of the base material and not reflect as much light out of its viewing cone. The less viewing cone the smaller ideal seating area. You'll have to decide what works best for your situation. There is no perfect screen for all environments. A good screen is worth the money as you are likely to change projectors multiple times before you change a screen.

Last edited by Ellebob; 01-26-2015 at 10:51 PM.
Ellebob is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Digital Projectors - Under $3,000 USD MSRP

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off