The Offical Epson 2040 Thread - Page 25 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #721 of 1872 Old 02-12-2016, 03:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by faz View Post
Yes, Teeger gave a great summary - thanks! This is what I was thinking and I'm trying to temper my expectations at this price point, but honestly, I was expecting a bit more. I was watching CNN and Fox News (no judgements please! ) last night and couldn't stop thinking that I wasn't happy with the quality. I've gone back and forth extensively with the color, brightness, contrast settings with the app, but even though I got the patterns to what they're supposed to be, the cable picture is not good. Understood that it's Fios TV and not some great source, but even the AppleTV outputting at 1080p was a little disappointing. There is a HW40ES in the classifieds that may be a good option... although at $1000 more, but if I want to be happy, it's what I think I have to do... unless you guys think I have a defective unit or something.

If you have the time and can see how it goes with the app, it would be awesome! Thanks.
A couple of things to keep in mind... Judging from the pictures you have light colored walls and what appears to be a white ceiling very close to the image. While the Sony has much better native contrast than the Epson these conditions will rob any projector of contrast. You might consider improving the room if you can. Maybe improvise some sort of dark cover over the ceiling and closest nearby wall for testing purposes.
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post #722 of 1872 Old 02-12-2016, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
You do understand that digital keystone degrades image quality, right? It's lens shift that allows you to mount off axis without degrading image quality. If you aren't picky about image quality that might not matter to you. But if you want the best image from whatever projector you buy, you should either look for one with H+V lens shift or consider a different mounting strategy that would allow you to have a projector without lens shift squared up with the screen.
Very much aware of this. However, lens shift is rarer than keystone correction in this price range. And a center mount would require a short throw combined with some nasty, low-clearance crawl-space work.
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post #723 of 1872 Old 02-12-2016, 06:51 PM
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I might get quicker answer here.
Is Epson EH-TW5300 same as Epson 2040, just different region name?
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post #724 of 1872 Old 02-12-2016, 06:52 PM
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I might get quicker answer here.
Is Epson EH-TW5300 same as Epson 2040, just different region name?
Yes, in Europe it's 5300 ☺

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post #725 of 1872 Old 02-12-2016, 08:36 PM
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Very much aware of this. However, lens shift is rarer than keystone correction in this price range. And a center mount would require a short throw combined with some nasty, low-clearance crawl-space work.
OK, so you accept that with keystone you get something less than 1920x1080 resolution to work around that ceiling fan. It's not the end of the world.
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post #726 of 1872 Old 02-12-2016, 09:42 PM
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Hi all,


I'll be in the market to upgrade my current projector (Optoma HD70) soon, and I was hoping for some honest feedback, particularly from folks who have seen this up against the BenQ 1075. I've read through the thread, but if there is any additional input for my priorities:


- Small-ish (10' x 16') living room, generally lots of ambient light, so need something bright.
- Due to a ceiling fan will have to mount off-axis no further than 8'-10' back, so H+V keystone are important.
- Primary use will be movies, including 3D. Not sensitive to rainbow effect, but I *am* annoyed by crosstalk/ghosting with 3D.
- Don't like judder, so I'm tempted by the Epson's frame interpolation feature, but I've also read comments that the BenQ handles motion better, so if someone could elaborate...?
- For someone who's seen both in ambient light and in the dark: how bad is the loss of contrast on the Epson, really? I understand I'll lose some contrast with the windows open, but I'd prefer a picture that's not *completely* washed out.
- How does the fan noise compare?
- Lastly, I have four pairs of Bit Cauldron/Monster 3D RF glasses from my old emitter setup. Can someone confirm that this will/won't work with the Epson? If yes, the savings on glasses (combined with the low cost of lamp replacement) might sway me.


Coming from an old 720p dlp with a too-long throw, I'm sure anything will be a step up, but would still like to avoid buyer's remorse.
Thanks!
Hi, thebard . . .

I don't have any experience with the Optoma HD70, but I recently bought the Optoma 28DSE (with the Darbee image procession). I was hoping that I would love the projector since it had some cool features that made it worth the asking price, I thought. I ended up returning it since, despite some reviews suggesting the 3D performance was good, I found it too dim even when operating the projector as bright as it could go. Aside from the poor 3D, the colors were really not very good - even after doing some tweaking.

I bought the Epson 2040 after returning the Optoma 28DSE. And, to me, the Epson is a much more refined unit. The Epson does 3D quite nicely - the blacks are actually better than the Optoma HD28DSE. There is minor ghosting with the Epsons that you won't see as much with any of the DLP projectors - they simply do 3D better. But, what the Epson 2040 can do with 3D is pretty damned good - especially when you can purchase the low-cost Samsung glasses that are completely compatible with the projector.

I have the BenQ 1070, and the performance from it is definitely better than the Epson 2040 - especially with black lever performance. But, the Epson is still still excellent - especially when you consider the full feature set the 2040 includes with frame interpolation and other goodies. Since frame interpolation is important to you, this projector is worth considering since it isn't commonly available on lower-priced units.

The BenQ does handle 24fps content better than the Epson. But I don't think anyone would complain about the small difference there is between how the Epson and BenQ handle motion - it's just different. But if you love CFI, you don't have to worry about this anyway.

The brightness in both 2D and 3D is pretty similar between my BenQ 1070 and the Epson 2040. The fan noise on both units is similar in the lowest (eco) lamp settings. But when you start to crank the lumens, the Epson is louder. I am not one that is bothered much by the noise, even when it's on the loud side. I can hear it, but I am able to ignore it - which is easy to do when you crank up your surround sound system.

The really great thing about the Epson is the bulb replacement cost of $79.00. The BenQ bulbs are about $179.00 to replace. Ouch! So, for me the Epson is a great unit with a low cost of ownership. One cool thing about the cheaper bulbs is that when they start to noticeably dim, it becomes affordable to replace the bulb to keep the projector looking as bright as new. And, you can keep the older bulb as a back up in the event you need the spare in the middle of a movie.

I've mentioned this in another post -- I went to DLP's after finding a lot of the Epson units looked too soft. To my complete surprise, the 2040 is really offers a very sharp image (especially when using Epson's on-board image enhancement). My 2040 looks every bit as good as my BenQ when it comes to sharpness. And the colors of the 2040 are well saturated and realistic looking. If you can overlook some of the low contrast issues, you will love the projector. The BenQ has better blacks -- but they too are still more dark gray then black.

I hope you enjoy whatever projector you decide to bring home.

Ian
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post #727 of 1872 Old 02-13-2016, 01:33 AM
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Thank you for the feedback, Ian. Very helpful.
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post #728 of 1872 Old 02-13-2016, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by teeger View Post
Hi, thebard . . .

I don't have any experience with the Optoma HD70, but I recently bought the Optoma 28DSE (with the Darbee image procession). I was hoping that I would love the projector since it had some cool features that made it worth the asking price, I thought. I ended up returning it since, despite some reviews suggesting the 3D performance was good, I found it too dim even when operating the projector as bright as it could go. Aside from the poor 3D, the colors were really not very good - even after doing some tweaking.

I bought the Epson 2040 after returning the Optoma 28DSE. And, to me, the Epson is a much more refined unit. The Epson does 3D quite nicely - the blacks are actually better than the Optoma HD28DSE. There is minor ghosting with the Epsons that you won't see as much with any of the DLP projectors - they simply do 3D better. But, what the Epson 2040 can do with 3D is pretty damned good - especially when you can purchase the low-cost Samsung glasses that are completely compatible with the projector.

I have the BenQ 1070, and the performance from it is definitely better than the Epson 2040 - especially with black lever performance. But, the Epson is still still excellent - especially when you consider the full feature set the 2040 includes with frame interpolation and other goodies. Since frame interpolation is important to you, this projector is worth considering since it isn't commonly available on lower-priced units.

The BenQ does handle 24fps content better than the Epson. But I don't think anyone would complain about the small difference there is between how the Epson and BenQ handle motion - it's just different. But if you love CFI, you don't have to worry about this anyway.

The brightness in both 2D and 3D is pretty similar between my BenQ 1070 and the Epson 2040. The fan noise on both units is similar in the lowest (eco) lamp settings. But when you start to crank the lumens, the Epson is louder. I am not one that is bothered much by the noise, even when it's on the loud side. I can hear it, but I am able to ignore it - which is easy to do when you crank up your surround sound system.

The really great thing about the Epson is the bulb replacement cost of $79.00. The BenQ bulbs are about $179.00 to replace. Ouch! So, for me the Epson is a great unit with a low cost of ownership. One cool thing about the cheaper bulbs is that when they start to noticeably dim, it becomes affordable to replace the bulb to keep the projector looking as bright as new. And, you can keep the older bulb as a back up in the event you need the spare in the middle of a movie.

I've mentioned this in another post -- I went to DLP's after finding a lot of the Epson units looked too soft. To my complete surprise, the 2040 is really offers a very sharp image (especially when using Epson's on-board image enhancement). My 2040 looks every bit as good as my BenQ when it comes to sharpness. And the colors of the 2040 are well saturated and realistic looking. If you can overlook some of the low contrast issues, you will love the projector. The BenQ has better blacks -- but they too are still more dark gray then black.

I hope you enjoy whatever projector you decide to bring home.

Ian
You summed up that nicely, Ian.
However, it's unfortunate because that's exactly my issue of having to choose between w1070 vs Epson 2040.

I'm super scared of RBE on w1070, especially considering that I will be using subtitles on letterboxed movies(which is basically vast majority of them) So it will be a white subtitle on black background.
And I haven't come up with many people that have w1070 and use subtitles. So my problem still remains.

On the other hand Epson 2040 is RBE free and that's a huge advantage.
However I'm worried about cinematic experience because I will be using my projector solely for movies at night.
I saw some unbiased yt videos and the blacks and especially contrast is vastly superior on w1070.

So guys, I'd appreciate if someone can post something about the RBE on subtitles. Especially during darker action scenes containing them. As projector will be 100'' at least that means I would have to move my eyes slightly across the screen(subtitle wise) so I'm curious if you see RBE that way...
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post #729 of 1872 Old 02-13-2016, 11:14 AM
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I saw some unbiased yt videos and the blacks and especially contrast is vastly superior on w1070.
Link?
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post #730 of 1872 Old 02-13-2016, 12:02 PM
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Link?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjM4hV2JsV4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pszLB7wgvoI
I have no idea what they are saying as I don't speak their language but you can clearly see the difference in contrast and black levels. It's even worse when you see true black while watching 2.35:1 movies when there's letterboxing.(And that's vast majority of movies)


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOmif2VB2xk
You can clearly see how all blacks don't look cinematic and as someone who will watch only movies on my projector that's a huge disadvantage(similar to RBE)
Plus, I'm worried it is too bright in a dark room(I will be projecting always at night) and I'm worried that all bright scenes will reflect and light up the room, that could be camera but in this video it's really bad if that's what looks like in real-life. Especially the 1st second of the video.
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post #731 of 1872 Old 02-13-2016, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Gothamite View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjM4hV2JsV4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pszLB7wgvoI
I have no idea what they are saying as I don't speak their language but you can clearly see the difference in contrast and black levels. It's even worse when you see true black while watching 2.35:1 movies when there's letterboxing.(And that's vast majority of movies)


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOmif2VB2xk
You can clearly see how all blacks don't look cinematic and as someone who will watch only movies on my projector that's a huge disadvantage(similar to RBE)
Plus, I'm worried it is too bright in a dark room(I will be projecting always at night) and I'm worried that all bright scenes will reflect and light up the room, that could be camera but in this video it's really bad if that's what looks like in real-life. Especially the 1st second of the video.

Having had both the 1070 and 2045 at the same time I can tell you the difference in contrast and blacks isn't that large. In the video with the side by side from the Eastern European(?) chap you can actually see that he needs to reduce the brightness setting on his tw5300 a few more steps.

In a light controlled room I now run my 2045 with the brightness all the way down to 36, contrast at 50, iris off, in eco mode and the blacks look great while the whites are still white. I originally was using a grey screen but have since moved to a matte white and am extremely happy. I'm throwing a 120" screen from about 11ft away.
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post #732 of 1872 Old 02-13-2016, 03:14 PM
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Having had both the 1070 and 2045 at the same time I can tell you the difference in contrast and blacks isn't that large. In the video with the side by side from the Eastern European(?) chap you can actually see that he needs to reduce the brightness setting on his tw5300 a few more steps.

In a light controlled room I now run my 2045 with the brightness all the way down to 36, contrast at 50, iris off, in eco mode and the blacks look great while the whites are still white. I originally was using a grey screen but have since moved to a matte white and am extremely happy. I'm throwing a 120" screen from about 11ft away.
Like you said! I have also had both of them and it's almost no difference in black level. But in my opinion 2040 had more details in it and was overall better by that in the black levels. I sticked with it and sended 1070 back and I don't regreat in a bit!
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post #733 of 1872 Old 02-13-2016, 03:17 PM
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Having had both the 1070 and 2045 at the same time I can tell you the difference in contrast and blacks isn't that large. In the video with the side by side from the Eastern European(?) chap you can actually see that he needs to reduce the brightness setting on his tw5300 a few more steps.

In a light controlled room I now run my 2045 with the brightness all the way down to 36, contrast at 50, iris off, in eco mode and the blacks look great while the whites are still white. I originally was using a grey screen but have since moved to a matte white and am extremely happy. I'm throwing a 120" screen from about 11ft away.
That's really great to hear. Because as I've said, I'd definitely be more annoyed with RBE than blacks on LCD if there's no huge difference. But I'd really like to see it for myself.

Could you tell me more about tweaking those settings?
1. Did you lose any sharpness, contrast and overall picture quality when u lowered those things?
2. Also can u see individual pixels/ or any anomalies being around 10ft from the 120'' screen (cause that's the setup I'd use) Or is it sharp and smooth?

edit: 3. Can you tell me more about this thing that worries me: (last link I posted in earlier post)
Quote:
Plus, I'm worried it is too bright in a dark room(I will be projecting always at night) and I'm worried that all bright scenes will reflect and light up the room, that could be camera but in this video it's really bad if that's what looks like in real-life. Especially the 1st second of the video.

Last edited by Gothamite; 02-13-2016 at 03:20 PM.
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post #734 of 1872 Old 02-13-2016, 04:33 PM
 
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I haven't tried it myself but you are likely to lose shadow detail with Brightness set that low. Brightness should always be set with a test pattern and it can be done by eye (It doesn't require a meter).
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post #735 of 1872 Old 02-13-2016, 05:20 PM
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Like you said! I have also had both of them and it's almost no difference in black level. But in my opinion 2040 had more details in it and was overall better by that in the black levels. I sticked with it and sended 1070 back and I don't regreat in a bit!
I had the BenQ HT3050 and HT2050. I have nothing bad to say about those projectors. I couldn't tell a difference between then.
But then I got a great price on the Epson 2045... and sent the others back.
The Epson 2045 looks great on my ALR screen and the blacks look the same to me as the DLP projectors.
My wife doesn't like how much lower the 2045 has to hang, but my wife and kids watch quite a bit of TV, and this replaced our plasma in the living room so it gets a lot of use and will rack up hours quick.
The $79 bulb replacement is what sold me on this projector. I never tried 3D on the DLP projectors, but I had a few glasses for my plasma that work with the Epson... and I can proudly say that 3D is amazing on the Epson.
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post #736 of 1872 Old 02-13-2016, 08:41 PM
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You summed up that nicely, Ian.
However, it's unfortunate because that's exactly my issue of having to choose between w1070 vs Epson 2040.

I'm super scared of RBE on w1070, especially considering that I will be using subtitles on letterboxed movies(which is basically vast majority of them) So it will be a white subtitle on black background.
And I haven't come up with many people that have w1070 and use subtitles. So my problem still remains.

On the other hand Epson 2040 is RBE free and that's a huge advantage.
However I'm worried about cinematic experience because I will be using my projector solely for movies at night.
I saw some unbiased yt videos and the blacks and especially contrast is vastly superior on w1070.

So guys, I'd appreciate if someone can post something about the RBE on subtitles. Especially during darker action scenes containing them. As projector will be 100'' at least that means I would have to move my eyes slightly across the screen(subtitle wise) so I'm curious if you see RBE that way...
Hi there,

I had the chance to see a 1070 last week as we went to diner at friends we hadn't seen for a while. Turns out that he bought one while I bought the other.

Me and him are perfectly bilingual (french/english) but both our wives are not, they only speak french. So we ALWAYS watch movies with subs (except french movies obviously) I had problems whit RBE in all the Optoma's I saw, and I was curious about the BenQ being a RBG/RBG wheel at 4x/6x. Honestly I looked for the rainbows but couldn't see them, my friend (the owner) does see them tho! My wife had them too but not his wife, so RBE seem to be a really personal problem I guess the only way you'll know for sure is to look at them both. I'm Glad I didnt go with the BenQ since my wife does see those darn rainbows. That said he also has a dust blobs problem in a pet free/smoke free /no fireplace home.

While the blacks where good (they seemed better, but it might have been wishful thinking), the colours didn't seem as good as the 2040. We watched some hockey and I thought that it looked more fluid on the 1070. We will get togheter soon with both our PJ in the same room on the same screen and do a "battle" just for the heck of it. We already know which will win what but it'll be fun

I'll report here and in my 2040 thread has well when we do it.
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post #737 of 1872 Old 02-13-2016, 08:54 PM
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Hi there,

I had the chance to see a 1070 last week as we went to diner at friends we hadn't seen for a while. Turns out that he bought one while I bought the other.

Me and him are perfectly bilingual (french/english) but both our wives are not, they only speak french. So we ALWAYS watch movies with subs (except french movies obviously) I had problems whit RBE in all the Optoma's I saw, and I was curious about the BenQ being a RBG/RBG wheel at 4x/6x. Honestly I looked for the rainbows but couldn't see them, my friend (the owner) does see them tho! My wife had them too but not his wife, so RBE seem to be a really personal problem I guess the only way you'll know for sure is to look at them both. I'm Glad I didnt go with the BenQ since my wife does see those darn rainbows. That said he also has a dust blobs problem in a pet free/smoke free /no fireplace home.

While the blacks where good (they seemed better, but it might have been wishful thinking), the colours didn't seem as good as the 2040. We watched some hockey and I thought that it looked more fluid on the 1070. We will get togheter soon with both our PJ in the same room on the same screen and do a "battle" just for the heck of it. We already know which will win what but it'll be fun

I'll report here and in my 2040 thread has well when we do it.
Thanks, looking forward to see what you'll come up with.
It will be more helpful to me as you 2 are also using subtitles which is my main concern for RBE.
Because to be honest, action scenes come and go and not something I'm a big fan of. So even if I see some slight RBE in those scenes(but not for longer period) I could ignore it.
However subtitles on black letterbox would be a potential issue, so I'm looking forward to your report
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post #738 of 1872 Old 02-13-2016, 09:29 PM
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You summed up that nicely, Ian.
However, it's unfortunate because that's exactly my issue of having to choose between w1070 vs Epson 2040.

I'm super scared of RBE on w1070, especially considering that I will be using subtitles on letterboxed movies(which is basically vast majority of them) So it will be a white subtitle on black background.
And I haven't come up with many people that have w1070 and use subtitles. So my problem still remains.

On the other hand Epson 2040 is RBE free and that's a huge advantage.
However I'm worried about cinematic experience because I will be using my projector solely for movies at night.
I saw some unbiased yt videos and the blacks and especially contrast is vastly superior on w1070.

So guys, I'd appreciate if someone can post something about the RBE on subtitles. Especially during darker action scenes containing them. As projector will be 100'' at least that means I would have to move my eyes slightly across the screen(subtitle wise) so I'm curious if you see RBE that way...
As you know, when looking at any competing product / technology there are bound to be trade-offs. This has plagued me many times when trying to select a product. I usually drive myself crazy trying to make decisions! When it comes to projectors, I have both DLP and LCD - and both are great products.

Many of the most respected consumer and commercial technologies come with great flaws or disadvantages . . . it seems most audiophiles choose vinyl over digital for detail in the music and the warmth of analog. Then there are purists who feel cinema was at its best when movies were shot and projected on film. Well, vinyl albums have surface noise (always) -- and film projected in theaters was often subject to scratches, fading, splices, etc. When I got into 1080p 3D projectors I expected there to be many more side-effects then there is. So, whether you go with BenQ DLP or Epson 3-LCD, you are going to get a fantastic product that would have been impossible to imagine ten years ago -- for under $1,000.00!!

If it's possible, buy either the DLP you are interested in or the LCD. If it has too many drawbacks, I would return it and purchase the other technology instead.

As an aside, I have watched several foreign films on Blu-ray with subtitles on my 114" screen - projected with my BenQ 1070. I haven't noticed that reading text (subtitles) makes rainbows more apparent than when when watching non- subtitled content. My eyes can scan a line of text without issue. Also, when friends are over and we put on a movie in a darkened room, nobody has ever noticed or mentioned the RBE. Hmmm . . . next time I have folks in I should draw their attention to them to see if a) they can see them and then b) if they find them annoying.

I find my BenQ 1070 more cinematic than the Epson . . . BUT . . . this is only because I'm being asked to compare. They are both cinematic - they just have a different look that makes my feeling the BenQ is more cinematic 100% subjective. The next guy might hate the BenQ entirely. The true, I think, is that they both are deals that are almost too good to be true.

Since you are unsure about which unit to purchase, why not just pick the one you can get the best deal on and use this as a jumping-off point. And as I said, make sure you can return the projector, if you don't like it, in favor of getting another projector.

Please let us know what you end up buying and how you like the new toy!

Ian
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Last edited by teeger; 02-13-2016 at 09:57 PM.
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post #739 of 1872 Old 02-13-2016, 09:56 PM
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As you know, when looking at any competing product / technology there are bound to be trade-offs. This has plagued me many times when trying to select a product. I usually drive myself crazy trying to make decisions! When it comes to projectors, I have both DLP and LCD - and both are great products.

Many of the most respected consumer and commercial technologies come with great flaws or disadvantages . . . it seems most audiophiles choose vinyl over digital for detail in the music and the warmth of analog. Then there are purists who feel cinema was at its best when movies were shot and projected on film. Well, vinyl albums have surface noise (always) -- and film projected in theaters were often subject to scratches, fading, splices, etc. When I got into 1080p 3D projectors I expected there to be many more side-effects then there is. So, whether you go with BenQ DLP or Epson 3-LCD, you are going to get a fantastic product that would have been impossible to imagine ten years ago -- for under $1,000.00!!

If it's possible, buy either the DLP you are interested in or the LCD. If it has too many drawbacks, I would return it and purchase the other technology instead.

As an aside, I have watched several foreign films on Blu-ray with subtitles on my 114" screen - projected with my BenQ 1070. I haven't noticed that reading text (subtitles) makes rainbows more apparent than when when watching non- subtitled content. My eyes can scan a line of text without issue. Also, when friends are over and we put on a movie in a darkened room, nobody has ever noticed or mentioned the RBE. Hmmm . . . next time I have folks in I should draw their attention to them to see if a) they can see them and then b) if they find them annoying.

I find my BenQ 1070 more cinematic than the Epson . . . BUT . . . this is only because I'm being asked to compare. They are both cinematic - they just have a different look that makes my feeling the BenQ is more cinematic 100% subjective. The next guy might hate the BenQ entirely. The true, I think, is that they both are deals that are almost too good to be true.

Since you are unsure about which unit to purchase, why not just pick the one you can get the best deal on and use this as a jumping-off point. And as I said, make sure you can return the projector, if you don't like it, in favor of getting another projector.

Please let us know what you end up buying and how you like the new toy!

Ian
Heh I am what you would call a 'purist' as I do appreciate film more over digital. Which is probably off topic but now when I think about it, it's related because maybe that's why I prefer more natural look of movies.
Hence why I'm concerned about buying Epson 2040. I'm not even that worried about really dark scenes, I'm actually more worried about bright ones lacking contrast and darker tone if that makes sense.
Here's a video I found on yt: https://youtu.be/WpZEYZpsQMk?t=75 At 1m15secs is where uploader compared source video to projected one and god I hope it isn't THAT bad in real life.

edit: Also from what I could see from yt videos, I don't like the shifts between bright and dark scenes. If find that transition to be from very bright to greyish black...

Last edited by Gothamite; 02-13-2016 at 10:00 PM.
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post #740 of 1872 Old 02-13-2016, 10:42 PM
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By the way is it only me or tw5200 has better contrast and blacks than tw5300?
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Heh I am what you would call a 'purist' as I do appreciate film more over digital. Which is probably off topic but now when I think about it, it's related because maybe that's why I prefer more natural look of movies.
Hence why I'm concerned about buying Epson 2040. I'm not even that worried about really dark scenes, I'm actually more worried about bright ones lacking contrast and darker tone if that makes sense.
Here's a video I found on yt: https://youtu.be/WpZEYZpsQMk?t=75 At 1m15secs is where uploader compared source video to projected one and god I hope it isn't THAT bad in real life.

edit: Also from what I could see from yt videos, I don't like the shifts between bright and dark scenes. If find that transition to be from very bright to greyish black...
I would never base a projector purchase on comparing youtube videos or inches-wide photos of feet-wide screen images shot with self-adjusting cellphone cameras. I place much greater weight on professional reviews by experienced reviewers.

All professional reviewers agree that entry level DLP projectors generally produce at least slightly better blacks than entry level LCD models, which is more noticeable in dark scenes than bright ones. Those who are especially sensitive to black levels and contrast may consider that difference a deal-breaker for LCD in the same way that some people who are especially sensitive to rainbows might consider that a deal-breaker for DLP.

As far as which produces the most film-like image, in Projector Central's recent sub-$1,000 home theater projector shootout comparing the Epson 2040 against four DLP projectors (including the BenQ HT2050 and HT3050), veteran reviewer Evan Powell had this to say:

Quote:
Film-like image. The 3LCD picture on the 2040 has a more natural, analog looking aspect to it than do the DLPs in this group. This is difficult to describe, but there is a qualitative smoothness in the image that will appeal to videophiles.
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I would never base a projector purchase on comparing youtube videos or inches-wide photos of feet-wide screen images shot with self-adjusting cellphone cameras. I place much greater weight on professional reviews by experienced reviewers.

All professional reviewers agree that entry level DLP projectors generally produce at least slightly better blacks than entry level LCD models, which is more noticeable in dark scenes than bright ones. Those who are especially sensitive to black levels and contrast may consider that difference a deal-breaker for LCD in the same way that some people who are especially sensitive to rainbows might consider that a deal-breaker for DLP.

As far as which produces the most film-like image, in Projector Central's recent sub-$1,000 home theater projector shootout comparing the Epson 2040 against four DLP projectors (including the BenQ HT2050 and HT3050), veteran reviewer Evan Powell had this to say:
I see where you are coming from but the the part where he says that Epson 2040 produces the most film-like image is contradictory to his criticism of black levels in 2D.
I mean he says one of the advantages of it is its most film-like image and the biggest weakness is black levels. To me, that's a slight contradiction right there.

You know what I think of and it's bugging me, considering the blacks on Epson 2040.
It's like comparing the rendering in BS Player, where you have Internal renderer overlay(default) which resembles Epson 2040 and EVR(Enhanced video renderer) which resembles W1070.
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That's really great to hear. Because as I've said, I'd definitely be more annoyed with RBE than blacks on LCD if there's no huge difference. But I'd really like to see it for myself.

Could you tell me more about tweaking those settings?
1. Did you lose any sharpness, contrast and overall picture quality when u lowered those things?
2. Also can u see individual pixels/ or any anomalies being around 10ft from the 120'' screen (cause that's the setup I'd use) Or is it sharp and smooth?

edit: 3. Can you tell me more about this thing that worries me: (last link I posted in earlier post)
1: I do not notice any loss in sharpness with the lower brightness settings, the colors remain nice and rich. I do bump up my color saturation slightly to 54 because that's just how I roll. The overall picture seems darker (of course) when compared directly to a brighter setting but I feel it in no way detracts from the experience. I personally feel the reduced brightness actually feels more like watching a movie in the theaters and less like watching content on an unnaturally bright and LED TV.

2: Individual pixels are not visible at 10 feet, once you get about 8 feet away you can start to make them out if you really strain looking for them but if you are just viewing the screen as a whole you only start noticing them from about 6 feet away.

For the last concern, my room is only a little wider than my screen and even at the lower brightness settings the projector still lights up my a modest amount. I have dark, matte blue walls but the ceiling is a lighter off-white color. In a larger room this would be less of an issue but I think you'll have this issue to some extent with any projector that throws out more than 1000 lumens.

As to losing shadow detail running down low I have tested my setup using using the test patterns disk from the AVS setup disk as well as a couple random downloads and find that 2% black is still barely distinguishable from pure black while 4% is noticeable. I would say that at worst I have slightly muted black detail, but when raising the brightness on dark scenes I can see that I am not losing any information.

Again, I do have a pretty optimal setup and I also don't use superwhite or auto iris AND am running strictly from a PC with HDMI extended range to your mileage may vary.

cheers!
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1: I do not notice any loss in sharpness with the lower brightness settings, the colors remain nice and rich. I do bump up my color saturation slightly to 54 because that's just how I roll. The overall picture seems darker (of course) when compared directly to a brighter setting but I feel it in no way detracts from the experience. I personally feel the reduced brightness actually feels more like watching a movie in the theaters and less like watching content on an unnaturally bright and LED TV.

2: Individual pixels are not visible at 10 feet, once you get about 8 feet away you can start to make them out if you really strain looking for them but if you are just viewing the screen as a whole you only start noticing them from about 6 feet away.

For the last concern, my room is only a little wider than my screen and even at the lower brightness settings the projector still lights up my a modest amount. I have dark, matte blue walls but the ceiling is a lighter off-white color. In a larger room this would be less of an issue but I think you'll have this issue to some extent with any projector that throws out more than 1000 lumens.

As to losing shadow detail running down low I have tested my setup using using the test patterns disk from the AVS setup disk as well as a couple random downloads and find that 2% black is still barely distinguishable from pure black while 4% is noticeable. I would say that at worst I have slightly muted black detail, but when raising the brightness on dark scenes I can see that I am not losing any information.

Again, I do have a pretty optimal setup and I also don't use superwhite or auto iris AND am running strictly from a PC with HDMI extended range to your mileage may vary.

cheers!
That disc has a pattern used to set Brightness. I believe it's under the basic pattern folder (first section in upper right).

Row 16 shouldn't flash. Everything to the right should. This is a better indicator of lost shadow detail than looking at 2-4% fields.

Setting Brightness low is of course fine if you like the look (it's your projector after all) but people should understand what you are giving up by doing that.
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post #745 of 1872 Old 02-14-2016, 12:43 PM
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Thanks, good to hear that you can tweak the settings to get close to W1070 blacks.

OK I'm now confused about different names of the same Epson.
I figured that 2040 is the same as EH-TW5300, so naturally I thought that 2030 would be EH-TW5200.
But I have been seeing this things over the internet like this yt title for example showing that EH-TW5210 is also 2040 / 2045 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqYjeep959I

So, can you guys tell me how these are called in Europe:
2030 -?
2040 -?

And a website showing both regional names for US and EU would be nice.
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Thanks, good to hear that you can tweak the settings to get close to W1070 blacks.

OK I'm now confused about different names of the same Epson.
I figured that 2040 is the same as EH-TW5300, so naturally I thought that 2030 would be EH-TW5200.
But I have been seeing this things over the internet like this yt title for example showing that EH-TW5210 is also 2040 / 2045 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqYjeep959I

So, can you guys tell me how these are called in Europe:
2030 -?
2040 -?

And a website showing both regional names for US and EU would be nice.
2030 = 5200
2040 = 5300
2045 = 5350

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post #747 of 1872 Old 02-14-2016, 01:00 PM
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2030 = 5200
2040 = 5300
2045 = 5350

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What would be EH-TW5210 then?
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I see where you are coming from but the the part where he says that Epson 2040 produces the most film-like image is contradictory to his criticism of black levels in 2D.
I mean he says one of the advantages of it is its most film-like image and the biggest weakness is black levels. To me, that's a slight contradiction right there.

You know what I think of and it's bugging me, considering the blacks on Epson 2040.
It's like comparing the rendering in BS Player, where you have Internal renderer overlay(default) which resembles Epson 2040 and EVR(Enhanced video renderer) which resembles W1070.
Black level is only one of many measures that contribute to a film-like video image. Obviously Evan Powell, a veteran and well-respected projector reviewer, believes the Epson 2040's overall image is more film-like than the DLP projectors it was evaluated against despite the fact that its blacks are a little less film-like than the better entry level DLPs. But anyone who's so focused on black levels that they discount other image aspects should forget about entry level LCD and just go with DLP. Besides, the future of "films" isn't at all film-like in the traditional sense, but digital -- the DLP look that younger generations of "film" goers associate with "films."
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Black level is only one of many measures that contribute to a film-like video image. Obviously Evan Powell, a veteran and well-respected projector reviewer, believes the Epson 2040's overall image is more film-like than the DLP projectors it was evaluated against despite the fact that its blacks are a little less film-like than the better entry level DLPs. But anyone who's so focused on black levels that they discount other image aspects should forget about entry level LCD and just go with DLP. Besides, the future of "films" isn't at all film-like in the traditional sense, but digital -- the DLP look that younger generations of "film" goers associate with "films."
He may be respected but he certainly didn't elaborate why he thinks like that. Even he said it would be difficult to describe but I'd love to hear that because getting black levels right is one of the most important aspects of film over digital.
That's what digital has been trying to achieve ever since it hit the market.

I don't know what you are talking about younger generations of film goers because to me most blockbusters and whatnot are getting brighter and more vivid(not in a good way) than darker.
There are only few digital users who get their movies to achieve that film look, Fincher with Gone Girl comes to mind, Inarritu, Villenueve on top of my head...

I'm curious to see (if I decide to go for 2040) how Lawrence of Arabia will look. I hope that all the beastly landscapes aren't too bright in complete darkness. Or anything from Nolan and his magnificent 70mm IMAX scenes.
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post #750 of 1872 Old 02-14-2016, 03:48 PM
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I want to buy a digital projector ~ 300 EURO .

What about Epson EB S04 ?
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