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post #31 of 70 Old 11-24-2015, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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http://www.projectorspeople.com/Onky...ccessory/33829

^^^That looks pretty good and within price range. 1 receiver, 4 speakers, 1 subwoofer, sweet
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post #32 of 70 Old 11-24-2015, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Rocky3RD View Post
Thanks,I am going to revie this right now. I rather use the $800 credit than lose my money, since I am not being given a third option of refunding my credit card.
I might move the samsung soundbar into the bedroom to go with the new Vivitek 1186 and install new sound system in the living room for the big time movie watching
I think this will be a nice step up for you. That receiver will allow you to slowly upgrade your speakers too if you do get hit with the upgrade bug.
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post #33 of 70 Old 11-24-2015, 02:48 PM
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Yeah, I tend to think people overreach with bass on the assumption that more is always better, when it's not.
More does not have to = Louder in terms of bass output,
The ultimate goal of a true bass head is to achieve full range frequency extension to sub hearing levels

Normal Human hearing range is 20 Hz to 20kHz

Most action Bluray movies have significant LFE (Low Frequency Effects) around the 30Hz range.
If your sub has a frequency cut-off above 40 hz , like most budget subs with smaller drivers and under powered amplifiers,
you are missing elements that you simply are not aware of unless you experience the same movie in a full range calibrated cinema.

The higher end subs will dip well below 20Hz , some DIY units are running single digit ULF (Ultra Low Frequencies)
At this level the bass is no longer audible to the human ear and the experience is more Tactile in nature...in other words you feel it instead of just hearing it.
If you don't have a sub that has a frequency range that reaches deep enough, you wont hear its full impact, but you can still see the effects...in this video and hear how they effect objects in the room.


The sound of higher frequencies are still present, but the sound waves of the ULF are the ones that have the have the power to move things physically
...the holy grail of full range audio is just that , full range, no limitations, and it doesn't Have to be loud to be thoroughly enjoyed/experienced.

For those who can't afford to buy, or don't have the space or means to build a DIY sub,
There are transducers (AKA ButtKickers ) that are designed to shake your chair giving a similar effect on a smaller budget.

There is a Master List of movies that contain LFE and ULF for true bass heads in the Subwoofer section
Here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...s-transducers/

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post #34 of 70 Old 11-24-2015, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think this will be a nice step up for you. That receiver will allow you to slowly upgrade your speakers too if you do get hit with the upgrade bug.
The price is exactly $799 + tax which is almost exactly the total store credit I have with these PJ People.
In this video it seems that the speakers and subwoofer all sit on the same side of the wall as the receiver, across from the "audience". So the speakers dont have to be spread out around the room for better surround effect?
Also are the receiver/speakers/subwoofer connection via HDMI, wireless,or what? Sorry but I have only dealt with easy to use soundbars so far

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=syRPGyi7A5Y
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post #35 of 70 Old 11-24-2015, 03:12 PM
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No its not wireless and surround speakers need to be placed in the back of the room or the side walls. This would destroy your myth about sound bars.

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post #36 of 70 Old 11-24-2015, 03:15 PM
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post #37 of 70 Old 11-24-2015, 05:38 PM
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The Onkyo system is the best that they have to offer.

The speakers are always somewhat lacking in the Onkyo setups, but they tend to offer the most bang for the buck and some of the better 'package' deals for what is out there. From a single seller, that's pretty much the way to go.

It doesn't touch better stuff and the bass will certainly be lacking. Compounded by a complete lack of understanding of audio and no care to educate yourself, this shouldn't impact you at all.

Those who are interested, may want to head over to Audioholics to find out why dual and quad subwoofer setups make a lot of sense in a good theater space.

Also, worth knowing why commercial cinemas use many very large subwoofers in their space.

Subwoofers, by example, shouldn't be loud. They should be smooth with good extension and plenty of dynamic range. A really good subwoofer can extend audio below the human hearing level. You can actually shake a room with audio that you can't physically hear, but it adds a presence. The general throbbing of a large ship while you are standing on board. The unbelievable roar as a rocket takes off from ground zero. The buildup of drums as people prepare for war. Good bass blends seamlessly with the main speakers to provide a presence to the entire experience. It should never be boomy or bassy sounding, but smooth and seamless and visceral. It should hit you in the center of your chest, but only when called for.

Good bass performance is tough to get for under $1,000 for a subwoofer except from some direct to consumer manufacturers and the DiY crowd. There is a reason the JL Gotham and Velodyne DD speakers exist though.

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post #38 of 70 Old 11-25-2015, 03:51 AM - Thread Starter
 
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The Onkyo system is the best that they have to offer.

The speakers are always somewhat lacking in the Onkyo setups, but they tend to offer the most bang for the buck and some of the better 'package' deals for what is out there. From a single seller, that's pretty much the way to go.

It doesn't touch better stuff and the bass will certainly be lacking. Compounded by a complete lack of understanding of audio and no care to educate yourself, this shouldn't impact you at all.

Those who are interested, may want to head over to Audioholics to find out why dual and quad subwoofer setups make a lot of sense in a good theater space.

Also, worth knowing why commercial cinemas use many very large subwoofers in their space.

Subwoofers, by example, shouldn't be loud. They should be smooth with good extension and plenty of dynamic range. A really good subwoofer can extend audio below the human hearing level. You can actually shake a room with audio that you can't physically hear, but it adds a presence. The general throbbing of a large ship while you are standing on board. The unbelievable roar as a rocket takes off from ground zero. The buildup of drums as people prepare for war. Good bass blends seamlessly with the main speakers to provide a presence to the entire experience. It should never be boomy or bassy sounding, but smooth and seamless and visceral. It should hit you in the center of your chest, but only when called for.

Good bass performance is tough to get for under $1,000 for a subwoofer except from some direct to consumer manufacturers and the DiY crowd. There is a reason the JL Gotham and Velodyne DD speakers exist though.
I obviously did not make myself clear, I have an in-store credit with projectorpeople.com, not with Audioholics. Considering that I already have two projectors which I am totally satisfied with, and I have no need for screens, the last and most logical option would be to use the credit on a sound system to compliment one of the two projectors.
I am not gonna spend $800 or more somewhere else when projectorpeople is keeping my money. That would be absurd.
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post #39 of 70 Old 11-25-2015, 06:00 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I think this will be a nice step up for you. That receiver will allow you to slowly upgrade your speakers too if you do get hit with the upgrade bug.
I did the math, and since these sound systems do not come with free shipping, the $799 system pust me well over the $800 store credit.
But I found this alternative, for $699, which would amount to a total of about $800 with taxes and shipping...Is this also a decent sound system to connect to my projector/s? c
http://www.projectorpeople.com/Onkyo...ccessory/38491

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post #40 of 70 Old 11-25-2015, 06:20 AM
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I think it's pretty obvious by now...
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post #41 of 70 Old 11-25-2015, 06:26 AM
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Those 2 packages are very similar. It looks like it just has slightly different receivers. If you aren't concerned about future upgrades, then the less expensive unit will work just as well. The more expensive unit gives you a better receiver with 7.1 capability and actual binding post connectors.
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post #42 of 70 Old 11-25-2015, 06:37 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Those 2 packages are very similar. It looks like it just has slightly different receivers. If you aren't concerned about future upgrades, then the less expensive unit will work just as well. The more expensive unit gives you a better receiver with 7.1 capability and actual binding post connectors.
Most bluray movies and Netflix streaming only come with an option of 5.1. I have never seen any program with a 7.1 option...Again this is something I am not familiar with.
And other than the $100 difference between the two systems, they look almost identical and use the same technology. The $699 system, with tax and shipping, puts me at exactly $823, and my credit is for $816, so i could just pay ProjectorPeople the $9 difference and add this great audio system to my living room, while moving the soundbar into the bedroom.
I have heard of Onkyo many times and always heard good things about this brand in general
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post #43 of 70 Old 11-25-2015, 06:59 AM
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Most bluray movies and Netflix streaming only come with an option of 5.1. I have never seen any program with a 7.1 option...Again this is something I am not familiar with.
And other than the $100 difference between the two systems, they look almost identical and use the same technology. The $699 system, with tax and shipping, puts me at exactly $823, and my credit is for $816, so i could just pay ProjectorPeople the $9 difference and add this great audio system to my living room, while moving the soundbar into the bedroom.
I have heard of Onkyo many times and always heard good things about this brand in general
There are actually hundreds of blu-rays that are 6.1 and 7.1. Atmos discs, however, are still pretty rare since it's such a new technology. Yes, those 2 systems are pretty much identical. I was just looking at the spec sheets and they are both actually 7 channel capable. The more expensive unit is 7.2 so you get an extra subwoofer out. You get a couple extra HDMI inputs and 95 watts/channel over the 65 watts/channel on the less expensive model. Again, unless you are upgrading your speakers or need that many HDMI inputs, the less expensive unit is the way to go.
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post #44 of 70 Old 11-25-2015, 07:05 AM - Thread Starter
 
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There are actually hundreds of blu-rays that are 6.1 and 7.1. Atmos discs, however, are still pretty rare since it's such a new technology. Yes, those 2 systems are pretty much identical. I was just looking at the spec sheets and they are both actually 7 channel capable. The more expensive unit is 7.2 so you get an extra subwoofer out. You get a couple extra HDMI inputs and 95 watts/channel over the 65 watts/channel on the less expensive model. Again, unless you are upgrading your speakers or need that many HDMI inputs, the less expensive unit is the way to go.
the only noticeable difference between these two systems seems to be in the receiver. The $699 system's receiver has more limitations, but they both use the same technology and speakers + subwoofer.
Do i have to scatter the speakers all around the room or can they all sit by the wall on the same side of the screen/wall, facing the audience?
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post #45 of 70 Old 11-25-2015, 07:12 AM
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the only noticeable difference between these two systems seems to be in the receiver. The $699 system's receiver has more limitations, but they both use the same technology and speakers + subwoofer.
Do i have to scatter the speakers all around the room or can they all sit by the wall on the same side of the screen/wall, facing the audience?
As rekbones said, the 2 surrounds will need to go either to the sides or behind your listening position if you want surround sound. If that's not possible, you don't HAVE to use the surrounds but that's kind of the point in getting "surround sound"
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post #46 of 70 Old 11-25-2015, 07:12 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Rocky3RD View Post
the only noticeable difference between these two systems seems to be in the receiver. The $699 system's receiver has more limitations, but they both use the same technology and speakers + subwoofer.
Do i have to scatter the speakers all around the room or can they all sit by the wall on the same side of the screen/wall, facing the audience?
Speakers should be placed in front, side, and rear positions of the room if possible. You don't take them all and shove them to one side of the room. That would defy the logic of surround sound.
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post #47 of 70 Old 11-25-2015, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Rocky3RD View Post
the only noticeable difference between these two systems seems to be in the receiver. The $699 system's receiver has more limitations, but they both use the same technology and speakers + subwoofer.
Do i have to scatter the speakers all around the room or can they all sit by the wall on the same side of the screen/wall, facing the audience?
Put them all in a row just like they show on the website. It will be just like a big sound bar and will sound amazing.

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post #48 of 70 Old 11-25-2015, 07:22 AM
 
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Put them all in a row just like they show on the website. It will be just like a big sound bar and will sound amazing.
Lmfao
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post #49 of 70 Old 11-25-2015, 07:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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As rekbones said, the 2 surrounds will need to go either to the sides or behind your listening position if you want surround sound. If that's not possible, you don't HAVE to use the surrounds but that's kind of the point in getting "surround sound"
I believe you, but why in the short video demo they always diplay all the units lined up together on the side of the screen facing the audience?
and if the surround speakers must go behid me or by my sides, does that mean that we are going to have a mess of wires and cables running all over the floor?
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post #50 of 70 Old 11-25-2015, 07:46 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Speakers should be placed in front, side, and rear positions of the room if possible. You don't take them all and shove them to one side of the room. That would defy the logic of surround sound.
Did that for many years with several soundbars and I still felt the surround sound effect...sound bounces back against the walls/ceiling and produces surround effect, to a degree of course. And you avoid a mess of wires all over the floor that you and your family can trip over
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post #51 of 70 Old 11-25-2015, 07:46 AM
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I believe you, but why in the short video demo they always diplay all the units lined up together on the side of the screen facing the audience?
and if the surround speakers must go behid me or by my sides, does that mean that we are going to have a mess of wires and cables running all over the floor?
Yep it will be a mess of wires to trip over. Some people nail them up to the ceiling or drill holes in the floors or ceilings. But if you can’t mount a projector you can’t drill holes for wires. So they will be on the floor to trip on or put a rug over.

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post #52 of 70 Old 11-25-2015, 08:04 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Yep it will be a mess of wires to trip over. Some people nail them up to the ceiling or drill holes in the floors or ceilings. But if you can’t mount a projector you can’t drill holes for wires. So they will be on the floor to trip on or put a rug over.
I thought all these modern speakers and subwoofers came with bluetooth technology.
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post #53 of 70 Old 11-25-2015, 08:07 AM
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I believe you, but why in the short video demo they always diplay all the units lined up together on the side of the screen facing the audience?
and if the surround speakers must go behid me or by my sides, does that mean that we are going to have a mess of wires and cables running all over the floor?
They don't. In fact, they clearly show the 2 surround speakers in each of the back corners.

Either drill holes in the floor and run the wires up through the basement and have the surrounds on stands or drill holes in the ceiling and run the wires through the attic and mount the surrounds toward the ceiling. Or, run the wires behind baseboards. If you can't do any of that and don't want wires on the floor, leave the surrounds out of the equation.
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post #54 of 70 Old 11-25-2015, 08:17 AM
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I obviously did not make myself clear, I have an in-store credit with projectorpeople.com, not with Audioholics. Considering that I already have two projectors which I am totally satisfied with, and I have no need for screens, the last and most logical option would be to use the credit on a sound system to compliment one of the two projectors.
I am not gonna spend $800 or more somewhere else when projectorpeople is keeping my money. That would be absurd.
Holy cow you're dense.

http://www.audioholics.com/

They are an audio specific website which has information and reviews of products. They have drawings and pictures and instructions on how to setup audio systems. They provide descriptions of why things work better, why they sound better, how to get the most out of what you purchase and how to do so properly. They believe in good audio without spending massive amounts of money, but working within a budget. They believe in direct to consumer products and 'cheap but good' stuff.

I read your original post, and if you want good sound, go out and get an education on it.

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post #55 of 70 Old 11-25-2015, 08:18 AM - Thread Starter
 
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They don't. In fact, they clearly show the 2 surround speakers in each of the back corners.

Either drill holes in the floor and run the wires up through the basement and have the surrounds on stands or drill holes in the ceiling and run the wires through the attic and mount the surrounds toward the ceiling. Or, run the wires behind baseboards. If you can't do any of that and don't want wires on the floor, leave the surrounds out of the equation.
Fair enough...What I dont understand is why my Samsung soundbar doesnt need wire-connetcion from the bar to the subwoofer, but this supposedly more advanced surround sound system needs a wire from each individual speaker to the receiver
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post #56 of 70 Old 11-25-2015, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Holy cow you're dense.

http://www.audioholics.com/

They are an audio specific website which has information and reviews of products. They have drawings and pictures and instructions on how to setup audio systems. They provide descriptions of why things work better, why they sound better, how to get the most out of what you purchase and how to do so properly. They believe in good audio without spending massive amounts of money, but working within a budget. They believe in direct to consumer products and 'cheap but good' stuff.

I read your original post, and if you want good sound, go out and get an education on it.
This is not about what things work better, it is about making the best use of a $800 credit which I can only use at this particular online ditributor
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post #57 of 70 Old 11-25-2015, 08:37 AM
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I thought all these modern speakers and subwoofers came with bluetooth technology.
Nope the more you spend the more you go back in time it seems.

Just out of curiosity You sent a projector back that you never opened and now you have this credit to use. I was wondering what the make and model was of the projector you sent back. I know the two you ended up with but don’t know if you ever said what you sent back and didn’t try???

Bud
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post #58 of 70 Old 11-25-2015, 08:41 AM
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Fair enough...What I dont understand is why my Samsung soundbar doesnt need wire-connetcion from the bar to the subwoofer, but this supposedly more advanced surround sound system needs a wire from each individual speaker to the receiver
Well, your speakers are powered by your amp, therefore, they need a wire run to them.

Bluetooth wouldn't work for multiple speakers, you can only pair one device at a time. You could possibly do some kind of radio based connection but your speakers would all have to be powered. That means each speaker would need it's own separate amp therefore costing several times what a passive speaker would cost; multiply that by 5 or 7. Not to mention, then those 5 or 7 speakers would each need to be plugged into the wall; doesn't sound like a very good idea does it?
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post #59 of 70 Old 11-25-2015, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by techtre2003 View Post
Well, your speakers are powered by your amp, therefore, they need a wire run to them.

Bluetooth wouldn't work for multiple speakers, you can only pair one device at a time. You could possibly do some kind of radio based connection but your speakers would all have to be powered. That means each speaker would need it's own separate amp therefore costing several times what a passive speaker would cost; multiply that by 5 or 7. Not to mention, then those 5 or 7 speakers would each need to be plugged into the wall; doesn't sound like a very good idea does it?
Understood and appreciate the positive feedback.
So going by the picture of this surround sound system, I see two "medium" size speakers and two "small" size speakers, plus a subwoofer....which ones preferably should be placed on each side (or behind) the audience?
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post #60 of 70 Old 11-25-2015, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Rocky3RD View Post
Fair enough...What I dont understand is why my Samsung soundbar doesnt need wire-connetcion from the bar to the subwoofer, but this supposedly more advanced surround sound system needs a wire from each individual speaker to the receiver
You have a lot of questions. Why not go to Audioholics as recommended and actually do some research? That's why I gave you that link, so you would stop asking questions which have detailed answers already.

But, since you asked:

Speakers need power. ALL SPEAKERS NEED POWER. Subwoofers typically are built with a amplifier inside of it. It is not completely wireless. It has a power cord.

Speakers, on the other hand, receiver their power from the A/V receiver. They aren't plugged into the wall, but the A/V receiver itself.

There are versions of surround sound systems which offer powered rear speakers with wireless reception. So, they work like the subwoofer. You put the speakers at the back of the room and run them 'wirelessly'.

The issue is often that wireless transmission of audio can diminish sound quality. Bluetooth is an excellent example of a system which can't keep up with the highest quality in audio. As well, you have latency issues and timbre matching issues.

By hard wiring all of your speakers you get reliable quality sound with discretely powered speakers in the proper location which broadens the sound field and creates the most immersive experiences with the highest quality sound possible.

For what it is worth, you can also add a wireless subwoofer connection to any 'wired' standard subwoofer...
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/rocketfi...1218817520479&

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