Official BenQ HT2050/W1110 Owner/Settings Thread - Page 62 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1831 of 1836 Old 05-16-2020, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by xplorar View Post
First of all, thank you for sharing your 3D calibration and measurement experience with us! Most of the time its only the 2D settings that get discussed everywhere.

I don't have a meter, and rely on AVS HD709 clips for setting contrast and brightness in 2D. What can I use for setting those in 3D?

Last night I tried to do a blind 3D calibration using your advice while watching Skyscraper 3D -
...

My son immediately said that picture looks slightly reddish. To me color variances looked smooth and natural but overall picture somehow indeed looked duller and soft.

I then tried my older setting back -
...
Picture then looked punchier and sharper again. Son preferred this too.

So I guess its back to slightly unnatural colors, stepped color variances for me. But somehow this gives a better movie experience. I guess that the inherent loss of contrast and luminescence in 3D make my settings extremities preferable for us.
By all means put the settings where they bring you the most happiness.


To make adjustments to your 3D settings that you can confidently say are accurate you need to make those adjustments based on feedback you obtain while

-using a meter
-measuring your own display
-as it displays standard patterns
-while in 3D mode
-and measuring the light after it passes through your own 3D glasses



We're clearly a long way from that here.



I'm sorry the settings I obtained using this process on *my* unit don't do much to make *your* unit more accurate, or if they do, you don't prefer the results. Either or both may apply, and neither is unusual. I'm glad to hear your report either way. Thank you for posting.



If you do not have a way to force your display into 3D mode *before* displaying standard patterns, it's hard to even set brightness and contrast confidently. I'd be curious to hear from others better versed in 3D calibration, but I'm not aware of a disc encoded in 3D signal format that has calibration patterns. It seems like this should be a simple thing.


The way *I* did brightness and contrast was to use a Lumagen video processor to convert 2D test patterns into a 3D signal. There must be some similar approach even if you don't have a Lumagen, I'm just not familiar with it.



Both brightness and contrast are highly dependent on gamma. For this projector you can try starting at 2.2 but will probably benefit from going a click or two lower. Once you've committed to a gamma you can proceed to brightness then contrast. Changing the gamma later means you need to redo the others.



Without a proper 3D brightness 'pluge' pattern, I guess you just use the old fashioned method of waiting for your 3D program content to "fade to black" and set brightness that way. Turn up brightness until you see the first hint of background noise, then turn it back down to the point at which it just barely goes away.



As for setting contrast, you could also try using regular 3D movie content with very bright scenes (involving clouds usually) to determine a maximum contrast level. Reduce contrast until you never see clouds behave in a bizarre way. You will be surprised how far below 50 you have to go to never see weird posterization effects in clouds.



I actually used this method to confirm the settings that I arrived at with a test pattern.



You *might* have a chance at setting white and black correctly this way, but you can't really adjust color temperature to D65 by eye. You can always use the "do what you think looks right" method for white point, but you DEFINITELY cannot do CMS adjustments to the actual primaries and secondaries without a meter. Just don't attempt this, it's pointless.



And I will say categorically, the behavior of 2D mode has no relationship to 3D mode. You can't use a test pattern in 2D mode to make any prediction whatsoever as to what adjustments to make when the machine switches into 3D mode.


I hope some of this is helpful?
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post #1832 of 1836 Old 05-16-2020, 10:44 PM
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I hope some of this is helpful?
Very helpful! Thank you so much!
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post #1833 of 1836 Old 05-17-2020, 12:20 AM
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@NxNW I took the 16 and 235 patterns from the AVS HD 709 and made an SBS file.

https://gofile.io/d/ClCvT3
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post #1834 of 1836 Old 05-17-2020, 10:08 PM
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@NxNW I took the 16 and 235 patterns from the AVS HD 709 and made an SBS file.

https://gofile.io/d/ClCvT3
Awesome! I've never played 3D mp4s on this (or any) display before - worked like a charm.

And no I didn't have to adjust any of the settings I had arrived at through my previous efforts ; )

Thanks for making these- I hope they help xplorar and anyone else who wants to at least get black and white set correctly in 3D.
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post #1835 of 1836 Old 05-20-2020, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by xplorar View Post
I don't have a meter, and rely on AVS HD709 clips for setting contrast and brightness in 2D. What can I use for setting those in 3D?
As far as I know, the only other calibration disc that supports 3D calibration is the "Spears & Munsil HD 2nd Edition", which is some of the best money I've ever spent.

I own the similar Benq HT3050 (W2000) and used to own the W1070+. I have spent HOURS trying to improve the 3D picture on both, as it used to look like every movie was shot at dusk on a winters day in Canada.

What made a huge difference for me was a combination of a few different things:

1) Our screen is DIY, and used to be a single layer of white fabric (not spandex). By adding a second layer the colours improved significantly due to the increased gain. White actually became white instead of "sick-grey" and colours came to life. So whatever screen you're using can have a huge impact, especially for 3D.
2) I realized that what I felt I was lacking was light. So I tried a variety of rather radical settings in the Color Management and Fine Tuning menus and the thing that made the biggest difference was a significant increase in "Offset" (under "Fine Tuning"). The parameters in the 2050 seems different from the 3050, but default settings on mine were 255, I bumped this up to values between 275-300. On the other hand I actually decreased the Gain values to around 75-80 (default 100).
3) On my Sony blu-ray player I have different picture modes. For normal 2D viewing I always use "Direct" (no processing) but for 3D I use a custom / user setting which bumps contrast and colour a few notches as well.

Thse are things you can try out, obviously YMMV. 3D is all about compromise IMO, it will never look anyway near 2D but at least on my Benq it now looks significantly better than out of the box.
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My Home Theater setup:
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Benq W2000 (HT3050) // 130" DIY AT-screen // Sony UHP-H1 // XBox One S & PS3
Sound: Yamaha RX-A820 (7.1) // Infinity Beta 50/C360/ES250, Mission 737R, Dynavoice Thunder T-12 // Sinus Live BassPump III
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post #1836 of 1836 Old 05-26-2020, 01:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kutzon View Post
As far as I know, the only other calibration disc that supports 3D calibration is the "Spears & Munsil HD 2nd Edition", which is some of the best money I've ever spent.

I own the similar Benq HT3050 (W2000) and used to own the W1070+. I have spent HOURS trying to improve the 3D picture on both, as it used to look like every movie was shot at dusk on a winters day in Canada.

What made a huge difference for me was a combination of a few different things:

1) Our screen is DIY, and used to be a single layer of white fabric (not spandex). By adding a second layer the colours improved significantly due to the increased gain. White actually became white instead of "sick-grey" and colours came to life. So whatever screen you're using can have a huge impact, especially for 3D.
2) I realized that what I felt I was lacking was light. So I tried a variety of rather radical settings in the Color Management and Fine Tuning menus and the thing that made the biggest difference was a significant increase in "Offset" (under "Fine Tuning"). The parameters in the 2050 seems different from the 3050, but default settings on mine were 255, I bumped this up to values between 275-300. On the other hand I actually decreased the Gain values to around 75-80 (default 100).
3) On my Sony blu-ray player I have different picture modes. For normal 2D viewing I always use "Direct" (no processing) but for 3D I use a custom / user setting which bumps contrast and colour a few notches as well.

Thse are things you can try out, obviously YMMV. 3D is all about compromise IMO, it will never look anyway near 2D but at least on my Benq it now looks significantly better than out of the box.
On the W2000 while in 3D mode I used a light meter with the default color management and fine tuning settings and changed to 80 gain values and 300 offset. With the modified change the image was 27% dimmer. I don't know if the white and color lumen ratios change, but it does not look brighter with the modified changes.

With the last lamp the way I increased brightness in 3D was to raise the contrast from the projector, sometimes up to 80.

Maybe the blu ray player's setting are responsible for the increased brightness, because modifying the gain and offset values make the image dimmer.
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