Epson 5040UB ($2999) - e-Shift 4K, HDR10, WCG, Powered lens position memory - Page 68 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2011 of 3506 Old 09-02-2016, 09:04 PM
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Wow, didn't see this before, how come it is dated a month back?? Very detailed calibration notes on 5040, gotta try it out!

http://www.projectorreviews.com/epso...jector-review/
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post #2012 of 3506 Old 09-02-2016, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Lightfoot View Post
The first thing it says is "Epson Pro Cinema 6040UB 3D DLP Projector Review" That doesn't bode well for accuracy lol

Looks like they measure the sequential contrast from the screen so got a low reading for black that was probably not as accurate as if they had taken it from the lens (more light for black reading).


I agree... I used to subscribe to S & V! but calling it a DLP projector, just throws all credibility out of the window!, I am sorry. Just like a review I read about the 5040ube requiring a fast internet connection/router to use the wireless HDMI feature?? The only credible reviews I believe are from actual users like which are on here... not paid sites!
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post #2013 of 3506 Old 09-02-2016, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by alanine View Post
Wow, didn't see this before, how come it is dated a month back?? Very detailed calibration notes on 5040, gotta try it out!

http://www.projectorreviews.com/epso...jector-review/
hmm, the advance calibration page is behind a paywall...
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post #2014 of 3506 Old 09-03-2016, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by JewDaddy View Post
Let me know what Life of Pi looks like. I bet it will look amazing!!!!! I tried Angry Birds in 4K HDR and it looked B-E-A-Utiful!!!!!
Watched Life of Pi just now, was totally blew away... Set in bright cinema mode with HDR, calibrated according to the article on projectorreviews site. Eco power + gamma set to -1 did help to make it easier on my eyes.

Then I went back and set HDR to "off" in the philips player settings, and tried again on the title scenes. I'd confess to my untrained eye, HDR or not doesn't seem to make THAT big of a difference. In any case, I'd say this disk puts up a much better show of UHD capabilities than Creed.

That said, the difference between Bright Cinema and Cinema is pretty obvious, the latter being a tad richer in color but dimmer. If I bring up brightness in Cinema, it raises black level too.

If only I can get 4k60 4:2:2 HDR to work between my shield TV and this projector, I would totally consider keeping it.
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post #2015 of 3506 Old 09-03-2016, 12:49 AM
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Epson 5040UB ($2999) - e-Shift 4K, HDR10, WCG, Powered lens position memory

Quote:
Originally Posted by alanine View Post
Watched Life of Pi just now, was totally blew away... Set in bright cinema mode with HDR, calibrated according to the article on projectorreviews site. Eco power + gamma set to -1 did help to make it easier on my eyes.

Then I went back and set HDR to "off" in the philips player settings, and tried again on the title scenes. I'd confess to my untrained eye, HDR or not doesn't seem to make THAT big of a difference. In any case, I'd say this disk puts up a much better show of UHD capabilities than Creed.

That said, the difference between Bright Cinema and Cinema is pretty obvious, the latter being a tad richer in color but dimmer. If I bring up brightness in Cinema, it raises black level too.

If only I can get 4k60 4:2:2 HDR to work between my shield TV and this projector, I would totally consider keeping it.


What projector does 4k60 4:2:2 HDR ?

All the HDR stuff is confusing to me.
It's obviously confusing to review sites as well. Lol.

Until the prices come down the 5040 will be it for me. I plan on keeping it at least 5 yrs. frankly I've watched something every night and just can't believe it. Our family is enjoying this projector so much!
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post #2016 of 3506 Old 09-03-2016, 06:10 AM
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So what is the 5040UB better at than the JVC? Is it accurate to say:

-$700 price USA
Superior gaming lag
Motorized lens cover
Cheaper lamp replacements
Built in 3D emitter
Better fast motion (sports)

This list may be inaccurate and incomplete. Could someone who is more knowledgeable on this thread please post revisions? Thanks
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post #2017 of 3506 Old 09-03-2016, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CincyisHome View Post
So what is the 5040UB better at than the JVC? Is it accurate to say:

-$700 price USA
Superior gaming lag
Motorized lens cover
Cheaper lamp replacements
Built in 3D emitter
Better fast motion (sports)

This list may be inaccurate and incomplete. Could someone who is more knowledgeable on this thread please post revisions? Thanks
I'd also add, based on my brief time with the JVC, the input lag is significantly longer on the JVC as it locks onto an inputs resolution compared to the Epson.

Epson 5040 UB / Samsung 8500 / Roku 4 / Yamaha 3060 / Emotiva 3-Channel XPA Gen 3 / Klipsh Reference 7.2.4
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post #2018 of 3506 Old 09-03-2016, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CincyisHome View Post
So what is the 5040UB better at than the JVC? Is it accurate to say:

-$700 price USA
Superior gaming lag
Motorized lens cover
Cheaper lamp replacements
Built in 3D emitter
Better fast motion (sports)

This list may be inaccurate and incomplete. Could someone who is more knowledgeable on this thread please post revisions? Thanks
Brighter which really helps in less than ideal conditions and living room setups with ambient light.

Somewhat sharper image based on several professional reviews.

More flexible pixel-shifting adjustments.

Best customer service in the industry.
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post #2019 of 3506 Old 09-03-2016, 02:12 PM
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Does it disable auto-iris when using HDR? Thx
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Originally Posted by Roudan View Post
Does it disable auto-iris when using HDR? Thx
Yes, you can disable Auto Iris on any setting.

You can also disable HDR if needed.
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post #2021 of 3506 Old 09-03-2016, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelvin1000 View Post
Yes, you can disable Auto Iris on any setting.

You can also disable HDR if needed.
Thanks Kevin, my question was : is auto-iris always disabled when in HDR? Thx
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post #2022 of 3506 Old 09-03-2016, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1000 View Post
Brighter which really helps in less than ideal conditions and living room setups with ambient light.

Somewhat sharper image based on several professional reviews.

More flexible pixel-shifting adjustments.

Best customer service in the industry.
No the Epson is not brighter.

In cinema mode (best color mode) it only puts out 500 lumens and after calibration Bright cinema mode puts out less than 1000 lumens.

The JVC RS400 puts out about 1300 lumens after calibration.

This is the problem with Epson saying their projectors are 2500 lumens but after calibration they don't come close to that figure.
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post #2023 of 3506 Old 09-03-2016, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregCh View Post
No the Epson is not brighter.

In cinema mode (best color mode) it only puts out 500 lumens and after calibration Bright cinema mode puts out less than 1000 lumens.

The JVC RS400 puts out about 1300 lumens after calibration.

This is the problem with Epson saying their projectors are 2500 lumens but after calibration they don't come close to that figure.
500 vs 1300?

Can you expand?

Do not steal, The powers that be do not like the competition.
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post #2024 of 3506 Old 09-03-2016, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by GregCh View Post
No the Epson is not brighter.

In cinema mode (best color mode) it only puts out 500 lumens and after calibration Bright cinema mode puts out less than 1000 lumens.

The JVC RS400 puts out about 1300 lumens after calibration.

This is the problem with Epson saying their projectors are 2500 lumens but after calibration they don't come close to that figure.
Bright Cinema on high lamp mode is very bright.

From ProjectorCentral review:

Brightness. The Pro Cinema 6040UB is rated at 2500 lumens. The Dynamic mode on our preproduction test unit exceeds the rating, coming in at 3055 lumens with the lamp on full power and the zoom lens set to its widest angle position.

Epson 6040UB: ANSI Lumens
MODE
High
Medium
Eco
Dynamic
3055
2385
2230
Bright Cinema
2122
1655
1550
Natural
2238
1748
1630
Cinema
910
710
665
B&W Cinema
1917
1500
1400
Digital Cinema
952
745
695

http://www.projectorcentral.com/epso...ge=Performance

From Projectorreviews.com:

The JVC RS400U is a much tougher competition. Both Epson and JVC handle 4K, have lens memory, and so on – their feature sets are extremely similar. The Epson should have the advantage in max brightness which comes into play with 4K with HDR (High Dynamic Range). Both have plenty of lumens for standard 1080p, and can handle some ambient light in “media room” type setups. Both do very respectable 3D (so does the Sony).

JVC’s image is a touch softer overall, probably due to the tech differences between their LCoS panels and Epson’s 3LCD panels, and that has me definitely favoring the Epson for t’s perceived sharper image.

But the JVC easily bests the Epson’s otherwise excellent black levels. The Epson, definitely comes across as being overall less expensive – up front, and also to own. The 5040UB, of course is $1000 less, (the 6040UB is the same price as the RS400, but comes with a ceiling mount and spare lamp for the price, and an extra year of warranty (3 years vs 2), and a rapid replacement program.

Epson lamps also have traditionally cost a lot less (I believe $559 list for the JVC, and $199 for the Epson. At the end of, say, 10,000 hours of use, you would have likely bought 2 JVC lamps, vs 1 Epson lamp. So there’s a potential extra $700+ difference, right there.

- See more at: http://www.projectorreviews.com/epso...b-and-pc6040ub

Last edited by Kelvin1000; 09-03-2016 at 06:24 PM.
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post #2025 of 3506 Old 09-03-2016, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelvin1000 View Post
Bright Cinema on high lamp mode is very bright.

From ProjectorCentral review:

Brightness. The Pro Cinema 6040UB is rated at 2500 lumens. The Dynamic mode on our preproduction test unit exceeds the rating, coming in at 3055 lumens with the lamp on full power and the zoom lens set to its widest angle position.

Epson 6040UB: ANSI Lumens
MODE
High
Medium
Eco
Dynamic
3055
2385
2230
Bright Cinema
2122
1655
1550
Natural
2238
1748
1630
Cinema
910
710
665
B&W Cinema
1917
1500
1400
Digital Cinema
952
745
695

http://www.projectorcentral.com/epso...ge=Performance

From Projectorreviews.com:

The JVC RS400U is a much tougher competition. Both Epson and JVC handle 4K, have lens memory, and so on – their feature sets are extremely similar. The Epson should have the advantage in max brightness which comes into play with 4K with HDR (High Dynamic Range). Both have plenty of lumens for standard 1080p, and can handle some ambient light in “media room” type setups. Both do very respectable 3D (so does the Sony).

JVC’s image is a touch softer overall, probably due to the tech differences between their LCoS panels and Epson’s 3LCD panels, and that has me definitely favoring the Epson for t’s perceived sharper image.

But the JVC easily bests the Epson’s otherwise excellent black levels. The Epson, definitely comes across as being overall less expensive – up front, and also to own. The 5040UB, of course is $1000 less, (the 6040UB is the same price as the RS400, but comes with a ceiling mount and spare lamp for the price, and an extra year of warranty (3 years vs 2), and a rapid replacement program.

Epson lamps also have traditionally cost a lot less (I believe $559 list for the JVC, and $199 for the Epson. At the end of, say, 10,000 hours of use, you would have likely bought 2 JVC lamps, vs 1 Epson lamp. So there’s a potential extra $700+ difference, right there.

- See more at: http://www.projectorreviews.com/epso...b-and-pc6040ub
These seem to be un-calibrated numbers.

Other reviews show that calibrated numbers are much lower. Cinema mode calibrated on medium lamp under 500 lumens. That is because the P3 color filter is engaged and cuts brightness levels substantially.

I believe that you can get full brightness in dynamic mode but unfortunately that mode does not produce correct color nor does it produce best PQ.

This is what bothers me about Epson. They quote high lamp brightness but unfortunately the useable modes for videophiles like "Cinema" or "Bright Cinema" don't come close to those brightness levels after calibration.

Also HDR10 is all about high dynamic range and P3 color gamut. So with the Epson 5040, you get either P3 with color filter in "Cinema Mode" but low HDR because brightness suffers, or you get adequate brightness in "Bright Cinema" mode but less than P3 color gamut. One or the other but not both at the same time.

Here are the numbers reported by projectorreviews.com

Lumen Output and Color Temp at 100 IRE (mid zoom and Medium lamp):

Dynamic [email protected]
Bright Cinema [email protected]
Natural [email protected]
Cinema [email protected] (High Bulb [email protected])
B&W Cinema [email protected]
Digital Cinema [email protected]
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Last edited by GregCh; 09-03-2016 at 09:27 PM.
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post #2026 of 3506 Old 09-04-2016, 04:19 AM
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My point is that the JVC is slightly better for a dedicated blacked out theater but for living room viewing with ambient light, the extra black levels won't matter as much and the Epson will have a slight advantage.

Believe me, I have sampled both and the images are very comparable. As is usually the case, these are subjective decisions that will come down to a matter of personal preference and desired application.

I myself had a very difficult time deciding between these two projectors because they both represent an outstanding value proposition relative to their competition and most professional reviews that I read describe a similar experience.

These are two outstanding projectors and the performance gap between then is a lot smaller than some of the posts I read would lead you to believe.
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Last edited by Kelvin1000; 09-04-2016 at 04:39 AM.
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post #2027 of 3506 Old 09-04-2016, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregCh View Post
These seem to be un-calibrated numbers.
The calibrated numbers you posted are from an engineering sample, so I wouldn't hold them up as a definitive representation of the projector's capability either. I haven't seen a calibration review from a production model yet. Is there one?
Quote:
Keeping in mind that the 6040UB we’ve been working with is an early engineering sample, calibration didn’t go as well as I had hoped.
Read more:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/epso...cture-quality/
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post #2028 of 3506 Old 09-04-2016, 09:20 AM
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Well, don't mean to throw gasoline in the fire, but, if the images some guys are uploading are any indication, the JVCs to me seem superior to the Epsons (the images PioManiac is uploading are incredible). However, they cost quite a bit more (at least here in the states), so, they should.
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post #2029 of 3506 Old 09-04-2016, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Snoogleheimer View Post
Well, don't mean to throw gasoline in the fire, but, if the images some guys are uploading are any indication, the JVCs to me seem superior to the Epsons (the images PioManiac is uploading are incredible). However, they cost quite a bit more (at least here in the states), so, they should.
I'll throw this one in the mix:

Samsung K8500 playing 4K without HDR
Epson 5040 not calibrated
Bright Cinema mode with no adjustments
Living room with some ambient light
Photos taken with an iPhone 6 Plus

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Last edited by Kelvin1000; 09-04-2016 at 10:22 AM.
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post #2030 of 3506 Old 09-04-2016, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1000 View Post
I'll throw this one in the mix:

Samsung K8500
Epson 5040
Not calibrated
Bright Cinema mode with no adjustments
Living room with some lights on
Oh yeah, I forgot about your image. That's pretty damn good. I know, you guys say not to make a decision based on uploaded images, but, it's hard not to at least compare. Anyway, it won't change my decision, I can't afford the JVC. lol
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post #2031 of 3506 Old 09-04-2016, 09:47 AM
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Online pictures are an indication of the capabilities of the camera and the photographer, nothing more. Don't ever base a projector purchasing decision on an online photo ...
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post #2032 of 3506 Old 09-04-2016, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by westcda View Post
online pictures are an indication of the capabilities of the camera and the photographer, nothing more. Don't ever base a projector purchasing decision on an online photo ...
10-4. I wish some stores around here had some on display, but, they don't (went to 2 different Magnolia stores, no dice). I guess, just make sure they have a decent return policy, and, don't destroy the packaging when unboxing. I bet that pisses them off. lol

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post #2033 of 3506 Old 09-04-2016, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Snoogleheimer View Post
10-4


Agreed.

I spent 3k with a 30 day grace period. I went to a two local dealers and watched the JVC after seeing all the comments on this thread.

I'm keeping the Epson.

For those who heave to get that last 10-15% of performance I say get it.

For me. I have zero regrets.

I really don't think it should be that hard to decide.
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post #2034 of 3506 Old 09-04-2016, 10:09 AM
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Agreed.

I spent 3k with a 30 day grace period. I went to a two local dealers and watched the JVC after seeing all the comments on this thread.

I'm keeping the Epson.

For those who heave to get that last 10-15% of performance I say get it.

For me. I have zero regrets.

I really don't think it should be that hard to decide.
Yeah, I understand the Canadians going with the JVCs, but, here in the states, Epson is the choice, unless, like you said, you want to spend an extra 3 grand to get that extra 15%. I don't understand the huge price differences from the 2 from across the boarders. ?

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post #2035 of 3506 Old 09-04-2016, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Snoogleheimer View Post
Yeah, I understand the Canadians going with the JVCs, but, here in the states, Epson is the choice, unless, like you said, you want to spend an extra 3 grand to get that extra 15%. I don't understand the huge price differences from the 2 from across the boarders. ?
Generalizing like this really makes no sense, people have different wants and uses in a projector. And not sure where you come up with 3 grand price difference in the U.S. (people are normally referring to the RS400 when they're comparing to 5040/6040). From what I read on the 5040/6040 forums HDR is a bust, read it multiple times. On the RS400 forums that isn't the case, some like HDR on the RS400. Re: different uses, if you're into video games that should really sway someone towards the 5040/6040 due to lag times, but if not into video games that makes the comparison much more interesting then it comes down to how big a stickler you are for calibration since Epson is notorious for quoting lumens that are uncalibrated and them dropping about in half if calibrated, how important HDR is, etc.
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post #2036 of 3506 Old 09-04-2016, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post
(people are normally referring to the RS400 when they're comparing to 5040/6040).
Actually, some ARE comparing the RS500 to the 5040. Anyway, the RS400 is still about a grand more than the 5040. ? (in the states)
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post #2037 of 3506 Old 09-04-2016, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Snoogleheimer View Post
Actually, some ARE comparing the RS500 to the 5040. Anyway, the RS400 is still about a grand more than the 5040. ? (in the states)
MSRP $1K difference but retailers discount JVC whereas they can't for the Epson, by how much they discount the JVC I'm not quite sure yet but I am looking at both the RS400 and 5040.
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post #2038 of 3506 Old 09-04-2016, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post
MSRP $1K difference but retailers discount JVC whereas they can't for the Epson, by how much they discount the JVC I'm not quite sure yet but I am looking at both the RS400 and 5040.
Ok, fair enough.
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post #2039 of 3506 Old 09-04-2016, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by WynsWrld98 View Post
MSRP $1K difference but retailers discount JVC whereas they can't for the Epson, by how much they discount the JVC I'm not quite sure yet but I am looking at both the RS400 and 5040.


I just ordered a RS400 for what I think is a good price,but mine is going into a dedicated Theater Room,no gaming,I have a 65" Panasonic Plasma in another room for that even though I don't game like I used to. So I'm really looking forward to my upgrade.


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post #2040 of 3506 Old 09-04-2016, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoogleheimer View Post
Actually, some ARE comparing the RS500 to the 5040. Anyway, the RS400 is still about a grand more than the 5040. ? (in the states)


Actually some are comparing the 7k JVC to the Epson because of the crazy Canadian prices

It's not generalizing at all.

The JVC is better projector in almost every area except gaming. It's also more expensive.

I don't have a problem saying that and still being totally happy with my choice.

People spend a few grand and get defensive. I'm not at all. Two great projectors. Again I'm not sure why some are having such a hard time deciding.
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