Epson 5040UB ($2999) - e-Shift 4K, HDR10, WCG, Powered lens position memory - Page 89 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2641 of 3506 Old 09-28-2016, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Kelvin1000 View Post
Yes but that could be a factory defect. Has Epson confirmed or has anyone open up the projector to find out?


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To that token Epson has yet to confirm on the 18/10.2 Gbps chipset as well..

One thing with Epson though, no matter what happens (within 2 years), you are covered. Not a dime you have to spend. So the dust blob issue should be least of a concern.
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post #2642 of 3506 Old 09-28-2016, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
To that token Epson has yet to confirm on the 18/10.2 Gbps chipset as well..

One thing with Epson though, no matter what happens (within 2 years), you are covered. Not a dime you have to spend. So the dust blob issue should be least of a concern.
With my Epson (1080UB) the first blob showed up at about the 3 year mark,
It's a good idea to be almost surgical, with a sterile environment when swapping in replacement lamps.
Not saying its the same with the new models, but both my dust blobs showed up shortly after a lamp change.

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post #2643 of 3506 Old 09-28-2016, 12:05 PM
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I captured the Epson 5040UB EDID and also performed some experiments with different signals. From what I can tell, the Epson is limited to 300MHz 4Kp30 YCrCb 4:2:0 10-bit. Any attempt to feed it something higher will fail. Higher options are also marked as non-native in the EDID.

4K streaming sources need 4Kp60 4:2:0 10-bit advertised to trigger 4K HDR playback. Which requires 375MHz if I remember correctly. And so it isn't working.

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post #2644 of 3506 Old 09-28-2016, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Josuah View Post
I captured the Epson 5040UB EDID and also performed some experiments with different signals. From what I can tell, the Epson is limited to 300MHz 4Kp30 YCrCb 4:2:0 10-bit. Any attempt to feed it something higher will fail. Higher options are also marked as non-native in the EDID.

4K streaming sources need 4Kp60 4:2:0 10-bit advertised to trigger 4K HDR playback. Which requires 375MHz if I remember correctly. And so it isn't working.
I "think" the end result is 10-Bit must be reduced to 8-Bit for a 10.2Gbps HDMI chipset






FYI, All "Current" 4K Blurays are 24p BT.2020 4:2:0 10 bit,
and even that may change in the future to a higher spec since it is not limited/regulated
....However 4:2:0 10 Bit is not a valid format for HDMI (as shown above)

So it has to be adjusted in the player, and not all players do it the same...
and not all Projectors are compatible with all formats either (10.2Gbps chip vs 18Gbps chip)


My Panasonic UB900 can playback in 4K/24p HDR/BT.2020 4:4:4/12Bit
or 4K/24 HDR/BT.2020 4:2:2/12Bit , not sure what format options other 4K players are sending.


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post #2645 of 3506 Old 09-28-2016, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post
I "think" the end result is 10-Bit must be reduced to 8-Bit for a 10.2Gbps HDMI chipset
That's right. You can feed the Epson 5040UB a 4Kp60 RGB 8-bit signal. Easy enough to test by setting the Xbox One S to 4K output in its UI which will display properly. EDIT: Ignore [ But that isn't sufficient to trigger 4K streaming. ]

I'm told the first generation 4K Fire TV will trigger it because the 4K Fire TV itself is limited to 4Kp30, so an EDID that advertises 4Kp30 4:2:0 10-bit should allow 4K streaming. But I haven't confirmed this.

EDIT: Turns out I was not on the Netflix 4S+UHD plan. 4K w/o HDR may have been possible with the Xbox One S. 4K w/HDR may have been possible with the NVIDIA Shield.


Last edited by Josuah; 10-03-2016 at 11:04 AM.
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post #2646 of 3506 Old 09-28-2016, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josuah View Post
That's right. You can feed the Epson 5040UB a 4Kp60 RGB 8-bit signal. Easy enough to test by setting the Xbox One S to 4K output in its UI which will display properly. But that isn't sufficient to trigger 4K streaming.



I'm told the first generation 4K Fire TV will trigger it because the 4K Fire TV itself is limited to 4Kp30, so an EDID that advertises 4Kp30 4:2:0 10-bit should allow 4K streaming. But I haven't confirmed this.


I will try this when I get home.
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post #2647 of 3506 Old 09-28-2016, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by gnolivos View Post
We talked about UPSCALING before, and I don't disagree with your findings.

Here I am talking about talking the 4K signal and displaying it on a 2K capable display. So yeah, it has to downscale somehow. Meaning, it's taking the 8M pixels and displaying 4M through eShift technology.


Simple: It just takes every second pixel horizontally / vertically out of the original 4k Picture.




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post #2648 of 3506 Old 09-28-2016, 02:04 PM
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Epson 5040UB ($2999) - e-Shift 4K, HDR10, WCG, Powered lens position memory

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Originally Posted by Cine4Home View Post
Simple: It just takes every second pixel horizontally / vertically out of the original 4k Picture.




Regards,
Ekki


Hehe. A very crude form of downscale indeed. . But seriously, if it took every second pixel vertically and horizontally it would result in a 1k picture.

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post #2649 of 3506 Old 09-28-2016, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ac388 View Post
Hi Ekki,

I thought you said an English site is forthcoming. Did I overlook it ? Sorry that I cannot read German n its a shame that I miss all those hardwork you put in.




Good News:


My friends wrote an article about our joint-venture review in english language:


http://projectiondream.com/en/epson-...s10000-battle/




It also includes the LS10000, have fun!





Regards,
Ekki
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post #2650 of 3506 Old 09-28-2016, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cine4Home View Post
Good News:


My friends wrote an article about our joint-venture review in english language:


http://projectiondream.com/en/epson-...s10000-battle/




It also includes the LS10000, have fun!





Regards,
Ekki


Do you have the color filter mentioned in the review for sell yet?

Will it be available in the US?
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post #2651 of 3506 Old 09-28-2016, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PioManiac View Post
With my Epson (1080UB) the first blob showed up at about the 3 year mark,
It's a good idea to be almost surgical, with a sterile environment when swapping in replacement lamps.
Not saying its the same with the new models, but both my dust blobs showed up shortly after a lamp change.
My Sanyo PLV-Z2000 came with a hand blower and there are 3 holes on the pj (behind a door), where you insert the nose of the blower and blow the air out.
Some cleaver means by Sanyo to deal with dust blobs.
Not sure if any other manufacturer has that feature.
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post #2652 of 3506 Old 09-28-2016, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Cine4Home View Post

My friends wrote an article about our joint-venture review in english language:

http://projectiondream.com/en/epson-...s10000-battle/
Thanks for the review. It's interesting to note that that while 4K Enhancement does reduce the pixel grid significantly, it doesn't seem to do anything to reduce the jaggedness of the displayed characters. I had expected to see the jaggedness reduced when the image is shifted diagonally by 1/2 pixel.
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post #2653 of 3506 Old 09-28-2016, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by shepdog View Post
I will try this when I get home.


I tried streaming Marco Polo on FireTv.

4k30. Still showing 8bit SDR 709rec

Not sure why but I prefer the picture of the Roku4
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post #2654 of 3506 Old 09-28-2016, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
My Sanyo PLV-Z2000 came with a hand blower and there are 3 holes on the pj (behind a door), where you insert the nose of the blower and blow the air out.

Some cleaver means by Sanyo to deal with dust blobs.

Not sure if any other manufacturer has that feature.


True. I still have mine. I never needed to use that feature but it gave me peace of mind to have it!

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post #2655 of 3506 Old 09-28-2016, 08:02 PM
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Hi Ekki,


Thanks. I really appreciate it n especially still remember me waiting in the wing for an English version. I read thru the whole thing n like the part when u said the FI in this Epson still a bit buggy. Since when I asked this question in my post #226(pt. 2) back in Sept. 7, nobody know what I am talking.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cine4Home View Post
Good News:


My friends wrote an article about our joint-venture review in english language:


http://projectiondream.com/en/epson-...s10000-battle/




It also includes the LS10000, have fun!





Regards,
Ekki

Man see things as they are n say why. I dream of things that never were, n say why not ....... A Perfect PROJECTOR

Last edited by ac388; 09-28-2016 at 08:07 PM.
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post #2656 of 3506 Old 09-28-2016, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelvin1000 View Post
This doesn't really matter to me since the projector is perfectly capable of handling 4K UHD Blu-rays and 4K streaming content.

If the 10gps chips are good enough for $15K native 4K projectors, then they are good enough for the $3K Epson and good enough for me!

Either way, I will add it to the list.

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20(I think) e-shift on 5040 does not degrade sharpness or add noise (unlike JVC according to the projection dream review of both).
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post #2657 of 3506 Old 09-28-2016, 08:27 PM
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so long story short, the 5050 will be able to do it next year. lol
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post #2658 of 3506 Old 09-28-2016, 09:33 PM
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so long story short, the 5050 will be able to do it next year. lol
There won't be a 5050 next year. The 5030 wasn't last year, it was 3 years ago.
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post #2659 of 3506 Old 09-28-2016, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by shepdog View Post
I tried streaming Marco Polo on FireTv.

4k30. Still showing 8bit SDR 709rec
Thanks for trying it out.

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post #2660 of 3506 Old 09-29-2016, 02:37 AM
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Epson 5040UB ($2999) - e-Shift 4K, HDR10, WCG, Powered lens position memory

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Originally Posted by Viche View Post
e-shift on 5040 does not degrade sharpness or add noise (unlike JVC according to the projection dream review of both).

I have been arguing this point on the perceived sharpness advantage of the Epson over the JVC for quite some time...

The Projector Reviews comparison mentioned it and now the review from Projection Dream confirms it:

And… the picture stays sharp! That was new to us since the E-shift mechanism on the bigger brother Epson EH-LS10000 or on the JVC DLA-X5000 had a tendency to make the picture look a bit more soft. In addition, it does not generate noise in the picture like the JVCs.
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Last edited by Kelvin1000; 09-29-2016 at 03:39 AM.
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post #2661 of 3506 Old 09-29-2016, 03:20 AM
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Thanks for trying it out.


Let me add it was a 4K stream, it just did not activate HDR
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post #2662 of 3506 Old 09-29-2016, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Kelvin1000 View Post
I have been arguing this point on the perceived sharpness advantage of the Epson over the JVC for quite some time...

The Projector Reviews comparison mentioned it and now the review from Projection Dream confirms it:

And… the picture stays sharp! That was new to us since the E-shift mechanism on the bigger brother Epson EH-LS10000 or on the JVC DLA-X5000 had a tendency to make the picture look a bit more soft. In addition, it does not generate noise in the picture like the JVCs.
Oh man. The JVC fanboys are now going to come after you beating their chest..
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post #2663 of 3506 Old 09-29-2016, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by nickoakdl View Post
There won't be a 5050 next year. The 5030 wasn't last year, it was 3 years ago.
never say never when they an easily make a revision to support 4k60 4:4:4 and call it something else.
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post #2664 of 3506 Old 09-29-2016, 06:42 AM
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Epson 5040UB ($2999) - e-Shift 4K, HDR10, WCG, Powered lens position memory

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
Oh man. The JVC fanboys are now going to come after you beating their chest..

If that's the case, then let's give them more reasons! :-)

From the Projection Dream review of the JVC:

Also, the E-shift4 4K simulation (very similar to the E-shift 3 on the JVC DLA-X500) on 1080p sources, does make the pixel structure disappear, but at the cost of making the picture look a bit softer and creating a weird moving picture noise when looking up close to the screen. In addition the E-shift activation adds a new sound/noise coming from the projector and some people may not like it. We recommend to let E-shift deactivated on 1080p content.

---

Another consideration that is hardly talked about is the Epson advantage with regards to the ANSI contrast figures:
Epson = 330:1
JVC = 235:1

The difference is even more pronounced when ambient light is introduced (which is my case):

The ANSI contrast tells you, how good a projector can display black next to white. The JVC DLA-X5000’s ANSI contrast is good, but not the best. That is why we were able to see vertical streaking in the black parts above and below the white squares of our contrast patterns.

---

Both of these points support what I was experiencing when comparing these two projectors in my particular viewing environment but boy did I get a lot of pushback from folks telling me that what I was seeing with my own eyes was all wrong...

Last edited by Kelvin1000; 09-29-2016 at 06:52 AM.
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post #2665 of 3506 Old 09-29-2016, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Kelvin1000 View Post
If that's the case, then let's give them more reasons! :-)

From the Projection Dream review of the JVC:

Also, the E-shift4 4K simulation (very similar to the E-shift 3 on the JVC DLA-X500) on 1080p sources, does make the pixel structure disappear, but at the cost of making the picture look a bit softer and creating a weird moving picture noise when looking up close to the screen. In addition the E-shift activation adds a new sound/noise coming from the projector and some people may not like it. We recommend to let E-shift deactivated on 1080p content.

---

Another consideration that is hardly talked about is the Epson advantage with regards to the ANSI contrast figures:
Epson = 330:1
JVC = 235:1

The difference is even more pronounced when ambient light is introduced (which is my case):

The ANSI contrast tells you, how good a projector can display black next to white. The JVC DLA-X5000’s ANSI contrast is good, but not the best. That is why we were able to see vertical streaking in the black parts above and below the white squares of our contrast patterns.

---

Both of these points support what I was experiencing when comparing these two projectors in my particular viewing environment but boy did I get a lot of pushback from folks telling me that what I was seeing with my own eyes was all wrong...
OH OH...Now you are in deep S...t
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post #2666 of 3506 Old 09-29-2016, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Threefiddie View Post
never say never when they an easily make a revision to support 4k60 4:4:4 and call it something else.
They could also give you a bar of gold with every projector you purchase.

99% of the public doesn't know or care about what 4:4:4 is. They won't release a new model next year to appease the 1% of the public that does.
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post #2667 of 3506 Old 09-29-2016, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by nickoakdl View Post
They could also give you a bar of gold with every projector you purchase.

99% of the public doesn't know or care about what 4:4:4 is. They won't release a new model next year to appease the 1% of the public that does.
that's like saying apple won't release an iphone 7s.... again it's not a 4k projector. can't expect it to be and support everything but they can easily do a refresh at little cost with 18gb chip. this is the tech world, it evolves and gets minor refreshes all the time.
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post #2668 of 3506 Old 09-29-2016, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Threefiddie View Post
that's like saying apple won't release an iphone 7s.... again it's not a 4k projector. can't expect it to be and support everything but they can easily do a refresh at little cost with 18gb chip. this is the tech world, it evolves and gets minor refreshes all the time.
Apple has a track record of releasing updated phones every year. Epson has a track record of updating their projectors every couple of years. Won't be next year.
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post #2669 of 3506 Old 09-29-2016, 08:39 AM
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Apple has a track record of releasing updated phones every year. Epson has a track record of updating their projectors every couple of years. Won't be next year.
ok thank you for being an epson employee and clarifying.
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post #2670 of 3506 Old 09-29-2016, 08:42 AM
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I don't think any JVC owner, or very few anyway, would argue that in a non-light controlled environment the 5040 isn't good, maybe even better than the JVC(s). The true advantage of the JVC comes out when you have good light control and a theater-like environment - dark walls, little reflection, blackout area, etc. Then the native contrast advantage really comes out in a big way.

5040 is a great PJ. I know, I had one before I replaced it. Had the 5030 for years before that. Having personally seen the 5040 and the RS400 in the same conditions in my theater room I ended up preferring the JVC, but I wouldn't begrudge anyone for a different choice, or think they were "wrong" There are advantages to both and your use case will determine which is better for you.
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