Official Epson 5040ub/6040ub owners thread - Page 151 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4501 of 18082 Old 12-29-2016, 06:51 AM
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I get this projector is capable of handling a 4K HDR signal...

If it's not displaying 4K, what's the point in sending it a 4K signal? Since buying the 940D I also bought the Panasonic ub900 player and a few 4K HDR movies. Should I not bother and just stick to 1080p content?
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post #4502 of 18082 Old 12-29-2016, 07:06 AM
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hey all, I am looking for some opinions. I am the owner of a 4040(couldnt paas up the deal an authorized dealer gave me on it along with the chief mount and extra bulb).
i already own an xone s but keep reading about it not doing hdr. I am curious if I should invest in a dedicated player for my 4k movies? I currently have a $200 visa gift card i could put to use if there is something out there that would give me a noticeable difference in pq(even though i cant complain how it is now). I am already kinda down on the s as it still doesnt do atmos or x which my theater is setup to do even though i know its supposed to be coming in an update. I have been looking at the philips and samsung and also possibly the oppo but saw on first page the philips is the only one that seems to work correctly. I did see a few pages back someone mentioned a firmware upgrade for the sammy that fixed it but its not mentioned on the first page. any help or thoughts much appreciated.
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post #4503 of 18082 Old 12-29-2016, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoTechi View Post
Don't get me wrong I am not talking about playing UHD disc movies with HDR (which I really like). For those I don't need the linker since the UHDs with HDR from XBox One S via wireless work nicely. I am talking about video streaming and gaming. If I go for HDR or higher color space with lets say a Netflix HDR stream forced by the linker the color looks "not good". It's hard to describe and the only reason I can think of would be the 8bit limitation. But since you seem to be really happy with it I am going to give it another shot. I did not try the downscale yet but 10bit hdr @ 1080p sounds worth a try

NoTechi
I was referring to games and streaming (I use a different player for uhd movies).
I have the wireless version too, but I prefer the samsung player.

If you use the linker and put the X1 in hdr mode, the netflix app will output the correct hdr color space, so the linker it's not forcing anything.

Just try the switch for 1080p/hdr/10bit and compare to the 4k/hdr/8bit signal, you won't really notice a difference under normal viewing (I prefer 4k signal when using the PS4 Pro with enhanced games, the difference in resolution is noticeable. Without the linker the PS4 is limited @1080p in hdr mode).
To test 8bit banding, try X1 Horizon 3 menus or PS4 Ratchet & Clank (the level with the "land sharks", look at the sky). Use the switch to quickliy see the difference.
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post #4504 of 18082 Old 12-29-2016, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Johnson 3 View Post
I get this projector is capable of handling a 4K HDR signal...

If it's not displaying 4K, what's the point in sending it a 4K signal? Since buying the 940D I also bought the Panasonic ub900 player and a few 4K HDR movies. Should I not bother and just stick to 1080p content?
There is a lot more information in a UHD signal. The 4k enhancement works by deriving two separate 1080 'views' from that data and showing them in a 'e-shift' fashion. So other things being equal there's more actual information to play with than if it simply gets a 1080p signal.
The upscaling is pretty good anyway so whether there's much visible difference is another matter, but sending it more data is hardly likely to make the image worse.
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post #4505 of 18082 Old 12-29-2016, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
So is my calibration invalidated as I am using the expanded setting?



The only reason I switched to this was because when I was trying to set contrast and brightness with the AVS HD disc I would not get the flashing bars to show above their reference levels.



With brightness nothing above reference black would flash.



And I think for contrast all the levels flashed and no matter what setting i tried could never get it to change.



Do I have to redo my whole calibration now?



If so how do I set brightness and contrast with normal mode activated?


I had the same questions & concerns as you (search a few of my previous posts for more context). I believe the fix for me (or at least a change that set my mind at ease) was changing my Blu-ray player. I was using my PS4 (not Pro), and like you couldn't see everything needed in the brightness & contrast tests on my M&S calibration disc unless I changed to expanded. The problem to me with expanded was it was creating a light film over the entire picture and blacks weren't as dark. Changing gamma, brightness, contrast, iris settings, etc wouldn't fix it. Conversely setting to Auto or Normal made everything darker but then lost a certain amount of shadow detail. It drove me crazy.

Anyway, I purchased the Oppo 203 and when calibrating with that I can now see all the bars, etc in the test patterns with Auto and normal and have seemed to dial in the right amount of shadow detail. Not sure exactly what the right settings are in the 203 that allow this though. Also not sure what settings in the PS4 were that were not allowing me to see them, and I think I tried every combination of video settings in the PS4. To my eyes now, I think Auto/Normal is the appropriate setting. That said I'm in no way an expert at this stuff and could easily be swayed if others that know what they are doing tell me something is amiss.
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post #4506 of 18082 Old 12-29-2016, 12:03 PM
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For those that have the Oppo 203, do you prefer to have the Oppo's custom resolution set to UHD Auto or 1080p Auto? My assumption is setting to UHD Auto will let the Oppo do the 4k upscaling and send to the Epson, whereas setting to 1080p Auto will essentially bypass the Oppo's upscaling and force the Epson to do it. If my assumptions are correct, has anyone done extensive testing to see which device might be better for the upscaling.?

I've gone back and forth and don't really notice a difference. But setting to 1080p will allow you to use FI if so inclined.
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post #4507 of 18082 Old 12-29-2016, 01:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
So is my calibration invalidated as I am using the expanded setting?



The only reason I switched to this was because when I was trying to set contrast and brightness with the AVS HD disc I would not get the flashing bars to show above their reference levels.



With brightness nothing above reference black would flash.



And I think for contrast all the levels flashed and no matter what setting i tried could never get it to change.



Do I have to redo my whole calibration now?



If so how do I set brightness and contrast with normal mode activated?

Your calibration isn't invalidated. It's just a brightness and contrast adjustment that's needed. Each time you switch between normal and expanded you should readjust the brightness and contrast settings.

What is your source device and what is that set to, normal (Video) or expanded (PC)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spirithockey79 View Post
I had the same questions & concerns as you (search a few of my previous posts for more context). I believe the fix for me (or at least a change that set my mind at ease) was changing my Blu-ray player. I was using my PS4 (not Pro), and like you couldn't see everything needed in the brightness & contrast tests on my M&S calibration disc unless I changed to expanded. The problem to me with expanded was it was creating a light film over the entire picture and blacks weren't as dark. Changing gamma, brightness, contrast, iris settings, etc wouldn't fix it. Conversely setting to Auto or Normal made everything darker but then lost a certain amount of shadow detail. It drove me crazy.

Anyway, I purchased the Oppo 203 and when calibrating with that I can now see all the bars, etc in the test patterns with Auto and normal and have seemed to dial in the right amount of shadow detail. Not sure exactly what the right settings are in the 203 that allow this though. Also not sure what settings in the PS4 were that were not allowing me to see them, and I think I tried every combination of video settings in the PS4. To my eyes now, I think Auto/Normal is the appropriate setting. That said I'm in no way an expert at this stuff and could easily be swayed if others that know what they are doing tell me something is amiss.

Your source (PS4) should have the same setting as the display, normal or expanded. They should match. Just about everything home theater (video levels) should be mastered in the normal 16-235 mode. PCs are the only thing that should be using expanded mode. If they're matching and you can't get the bars to correctly set your brightness and contrast levels then it's most likely due to the source clipping those values, which they can do. It used to be a bigger problem, but still can occur.

Just a tip, I did however switch to expanded to help with a larger dynamic brightness range for stripped HDR with bt2020 wide color gamut when I had my Xbox One S going to my Sony VW350ES. I did have to readjust the black and white levels though to get a proper image.

When I got the VW365ES it supported HDR and had the HDR Contrast slider so I no longer needed to do that. Since the 5040/6040 doesn't have this feature, this may help with it showing brighter images when displaying HDR.
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post #4508 of 18082 Old 12-29-2016, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
Your calibration isn't invalidated. It's just a brightness and contrast adjustment that's needed. Each time you switch between normal and expanded you should readjust the brightness and contrast settings.

What is your source device and what is that set to, normal (Video) or expanded (PC)?




Your source (PS4) should have the same setting as the display, normal or expanded. They should match. Just about everything home theater (video levels) should be mastered in the normal 16-235 mode. PCs are the only thing that should be using expanded mode. If they're matching and you can't get the bars to correctly set your brightness and contrast levels then it's most likely due to the source clipping those values, which they can do. It used to be a bigger problem, but still can occur.

Just a tip, I did however switch to expanded to help with a larger dynamic brightness range for stripped HDR with bt2020 wide color gamut when I had my Xbox One S going to my Sony VW350ES. I did have to readjust the black and white levels though to get a proper image.

When I got the VW365ES it supported HDR and had the HDR Contrast slider so I no longer needed to do that. Since the 5040/6040 doesn't have this feature, this may help with it showing brighter images when displaying HDR.


Dave, thanks for the info as that greatly helps in understanding what appropriate settings should be. The Oppo 203 also has a "strip HDR" feature although the color mapping isn't working right. If Oppo fixes this and that feature works as advertised I'll take a look at expanded again. I've just noticed that whites look really bad when watching HDR on this pj so (not sure the correct term to describe it) hopefully they aren't as bad with just stripping HDR.
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post #4509 of 18082 Old 12-29-2016, 01:39 PM
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When i look at my 2160p 50 inch compared to my 1080p 130 inch; its no comparison which is more immersive!
I'll get a 2160p projector when its native!

Until then; Nvidia DSR 4k 2160p/60 games superscale down to 1080p and I get an incredible game experience @ 1080p!
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post #4510 of 18082 Old 12-29-2016, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
So is my calibration invalidated as I am using the expanded setting?

The only reason I switched to this was because when I was trying to set contrast and brightness with the AVS HD disc I would not get the flashing bars to show above their reference levels.

With brightness nothing above reference black would flash.

And I think for contrast all the levels flashed and no matter what setting i tried could never get it to change.

Do I have to redo my whole calibration now?

If so how do I set brightness and contrast with normal mode activated?
To get the flashing bars, you need to activate Epson super white. Though people have said they prefer it turned off since it (possibly) crushes the black levels. I turned it on, calibrated brightness, and turned it off.
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post #4511 of 18082 Old 12-29-2016, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
Your calibration isn't invalidated. It's just a brightness and contrast adjustment that's needed. Each time you switch between normal and expanded you should readjust the brightness and contrast settings.

What is your source device and what is that set to, normal (Video) or expanded (PC)?




Your source (PS4) should have the same setting as the display, normal or expanded. They should match. Just about everything home theater (video levels) should be mastered in the normal 16-235 mode. PCs are the only thing that should be using expanded mode. If they're matching and you can't get the bars to correctly set your brightness and contrast levels then it's most likely due to the source clipping those values, which they can do. It used to be a bigger problem, but still can occur.

Just a tip, I did however switch to expanded to help with a larger dynamic brightness range for stripped HDR with bt2020 wide color gamut when I had my Xbox One S going to my Sony VW350ES. I did have to readjust the black and white levels though to get a proper image.

When I got the VW365ES it supported HDR and had the HDR Contrast slider so I no longer needed to do that. Since the 5040/6040 doesn't have this feature, this may help with it showing brighter images when displaying HDR.
My source is a Panasonic UB700 I have had a look in all the menus but I can't seem to find any setting for video or PC.
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post #4512 of 18082 Old 12-29-2016, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
My source is a Panasonic UB700 I have had a look in all the menus but I can't seem to find any setting for video or PC.
The Panny doesn't need to have anything listed as video or PC. Others have posted above the following...
Panny's Normal = Video
Panny's Expanded = PC/Computer

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post #4513 of 18082 Old 12-29-2016, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Johnson 3 View Post
The room is only 15'x15'x9' so I may be limited. I'll measure up and see about going 120" or more.
You've got the room. I've got 15 at the widest part of a 3' knee wall with sloped ceiling from there. The screen that I'm going to be using is a 16x9 model that's overall 59"x105". That's just under 9 feet. So.... If you use a retractable screen even, you'd have to allow for the case, but would have room to spare! 👍😆

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Johnson 3 View Post
I get this projector is capable of handling a 4K HDR signal...

If it's not displaying 4K, what's the point in sending it a 4K signal? Since buying the 940D I also bought the Panasonic ub900 player and a few 4K HDR movies. Should I not bother and just stick to 1080p content?
That's like saying that a 1080p TV can receive a full HD signal, but why not just use DVD. Better source signal to a capable display, better picture.

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Equipment List: Theater - JVC DLA-X770R / Denon X4300H / Panasonic 820 4K BD Player / Polk Audio RTiA9 Towers / Polk CSiA6 Center / Polk 65RT (6), FXi5 (2) Atmos and Surrounds / (4) Polk PSW505 12" Subs / Black Flame Painted Screen Wall / Nvidia Shield TV / Dish Hopper 3 - 4K/ XBOX One S / Harmony Elite / Echo Dot / Tripp Lite UPS Backup / Furman Conditioner / App and Tap controlled Philips Hue Lighting / Monoprice Cabling
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post #4515 of 18082 Old 12-29-2016, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post
The 5040 is capable of those two combinations of Color Space and Deep Color ONLY (along with 4K/60 _ 4:2:0 _ 8b).
I don't know why the player may choose differently between two movies as to which one it prefers,
unless somehow the disc itself is telling it something different from the other one.
The EDID from the Epson should give those two choices though, and since HDR is supposed to have a minimum of 10bits,
it's kind of a wonder exactly what is going on with the 8bit/HDR2 output.




Right now I just have my 203 set to "Custom UHD 24" _ "4:4:4" _ "12b".
That always results in 4:2:2/12b for UHD discs. I really don't see any difference to my eyes with the 4:4:4/8b, so to each their own.



Other than discussed paragraph above, you will get great results with the AUTO settings from the 203 on the 5040.
Other settings are more personal preference and/or related directly to other gear in your setup.
As far as settings on the 5040, I haven't settled on anything specific just yet.
Done a lot of experimenting and still just unsure since there are no test patterns to help set viewing for HDR.
The default setting for the Bright Cinema color mode are somewhat decent for viewing HDR, but the colors will be slightly off
in order to push higher brightness. However I only use Eco mode too since I can't stand fan noise.

I have double checked again n the reading for 'Batman vs Superman' is 8bit/HDR/4:4:4/BT2020.
I used your setting n force the UHD24/12bit n 4:4:4 on the Batman disc, but it still come out 8bit/HDR/4:4:4/BT2020.
Bright Cinema looks ok but still off. When using AVS HD disc, I am running into Normal n Expanded setting problem as others are discussing above, since the Reference Black level is not flashing in my case.

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post #4516 of 18082 Old 12-29-2016, 08:24 PM
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I have double checked again n the reading for 'Batman vs Superman' is 8bit/HDR/4:4:4/BT2020.
I used your setting n force the UHD24/12bit n 4:4:4 on the Batman disc, but it still come out 8bit/HDR/4:4:4/BT2020.
Bright Cinema looks ok but still off. When using AVS HD disc, I am running into Normal n Expanded setting problem as others are discussing above, since the Reference Black level is not flashing in my case.
First, my previous post about using explicit setting of 4:4:4/12b in the 203 was wrong.
May apologies for that. I should have said 4:2:2. Trying 4:4:4/12b resulted in 4:4:4/8b output.

I would not use expanded RGB. Anyone is welcome to their opinion on that, but it is not meant for home theater viewing.
If you turn SuperWhite on, you will see the blacker than black bars. However you don't really need to.
Just turn brightness down until you see the 2 most distinctive bars on the right, then turn brightness down until
the darkest one disappears only showing 1 bar, then turn brightness up until the 2nd bar can be seen.
Then leave it there or raise it one more notch. If you have a bat cave leave it there,
if you have any ambient light at all then raise it one more notch.
(I'm assuming that you are using a pattern that uses the 4 bars.)
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Last edited by Smarty-pants; 12-29-2016 at 08:45 PM.
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post #4517 of 18082 Old 12-29-2016, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post
First, my previous post about using explicit setting of 4:4:4/12b in the 203 was wrong.
May apologies for that. I should have said 4:2:2. Trying 4:4:4/12b resulted in 4:4:4/8b output.

I would not use expanded RGB. Anyone is welcome to their opinion on that, but it is not meant for home theater viewing.
If you turn SuperWhite off, you will see the blacker than black bars. However you don't really need to.
Just turn brightness down until you see the 2 most distinctive bars on the right, then turn brightness down until
the darkest one disappears only showing 1 bar, then turn brightness up until the 2nd bar can be seen.
Then leave it there or raise it one more notch. If you have a bat cave leave it there,
if you have any ambient light at all then raise it one more notch.
(I'm assuming that you are using a pattern that uses the 4 bars.)
Noted the 4:2:2 setting. Will give it a try tonight.

As for the 4 bars pattern, is it inside the AVS HD disc ? If yes, under which section ?

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post #4518 of 18082 Old 12-29-2016, 08:46 PM
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Noted the 4:2:2 setting. Will give it a try tonight.

As for the 4 bars pattern, is it inside the AVS HD disc ? If yes, under which section ?
One more typo, Superwhite ON to see BTB.
I don't use the AVS HD disc. My normal goto calibration disc is the Spears and Munsil set.
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post #4519 of 18082 Old 12-29-2016, 09:11 PM
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Every time I think I am off the fence on projector choice, I read another forum and that puts me back on the fence. And it's not just a question of demo-ing different projector choices and picking the best picture. I've narrowed my choices down to Epson 6040, JVC Rs600, or a Sony 4k. But the problem is that each of them have their own inherent issues.
The Sony's have this rarely discussed issue of contrast deterioration (in as little as 500 hours according to some forum posters).
The JVC have the issue of uneven brightness across the panel, particularly around the edges.
I had pretty much decided on the Epson 6040, but I am now reading that the Epson has issues with handling 12 bit 4.4.4, and worse I am reading lots of owners complaining about ghosting on 3d (one of the main reasons I wanted to upgrade my projector was to get 3d capable) and the dreaded green dust blobs.
It kinda becomes a case of which problems do I want to risk or live with.
Then, of course, there is the old "do I wait to see what next year brings in price drop and tech innovation." I, like most of you tech followers was super excited about UHD and HDR, but in reading the forums in the past few weeks, so many people have mentioned how terrible the UHD discs look with HDR enabled because of the lack of brightness of projectors. The experts even say that most tv's can't produce the 1000 nits required to fully utilise HDR. If watching UHD HDR discs requires purchasing a $100,000 plus projector to get to the brightness level required to enjoy this new technology, I'm uncertain how it is going to be embraced by the projector crowd. People seem to be getting benefit from UHD SDR set-ups and the clarity of these pixel shifting and 4k projectors on blu-ray and dvd is a step up and worth the upgrade, but UHD HDR could go the way of 3d and SACD as a stepping stone to some new technology rather than a destination. 3d may be superseded by VR just as SACD has been superseded by blu-ray lossless audio and audio formats like Atmos and DTS:X ( if the music industry would wake up and embrace them). I love tech, but the need to upgrade equipment every 3 to 5 years is difficult. My 4 year old, top of the line Pioneer amp is useless for Atmos , 3d Auro, or DTS:X. My Oppo needs to be upgraded to the 203 model to do UHD, speakers need to be added for Atmos and my projector needs to be upgraded for 4k and 3d.
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post #4520 of 18082 Old 12-29-2016, 09:23 PM
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One more typo, Superwhite ON to see BTB.
I don't use the AVS HD disc. My normal goto calibration disc is the Spears and Munsil set.
Noted. I did not have the S&M disc. Will play with the AVS disc .

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post #4521 of 18082 Old 12-29-2016, 09:56 PM
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Every time I think I am off the fence on projector choice, I read another forum and that puts me back on the fence. And it's not just a question of demo-ing different projector choices and picking the best picture. I've narrowed my choices down to Epson 6040, JVC Rs600, or a Sony 4k. But the problem is that each of them have their own inherent issues.

The Sony's have this rarely discussed issue of contrast deterioration (in as little as 500 hours according to some forum posters).

The JVC have the issue of uneven brightness across the panel, particularly around the edges.

I had pretty much decided on the Epson 6040, but I am now reading that the Epson has issues with handling 12 bit 4.4.4, and worse I am reading lots of owners complaining about ghosting on 3d (one of the main reasons I wanted to upgrade my projector was to get 3d capable) and the dreaded green dust blobs.

It kinda becomes a case of which problems do I want to risk or live with.

Then, of course, there is the old "do I wait to see what next year brings in price drop and tech innovation." I, like most of you tech followers was super excited about UHD and HDR, but in reading the forums in the past few weeks, so many people have mentioned how terrible the UHD discs look with HDR enabled because of the lack of brightness of projectors. The experts even say that most tv's can't produce the 1000 nits required to fully utilise HDR. If watching UHD HDR discs requires purchasing a $100,000 plus projector to get to the brightness level required to enjoy this new technology, I'm uncertain how it is going to be embraced by the projector crowd. People seem to be getting benefit from UHD SDR set-ups and the clarity of these pixel shifting and 4k projectors on blu-ray and dvd is a step up and worth the upgrade, but UHD HDR could go the way of 3d and SACD as a stepping stone to some new technology rather than a destination. 3d may be superseded by VR just as SACD has been superseded by blu-ray lossless audio and audio formats like Atmos and DTS:X ( if the music industry would wake up and embrace them). I love tech, but the need to upgrade equipment every 3 to 5 years is difficult. My 4 year old, top of the line Pioneer amp is useless for Atmos , 3d Auro, or DTS:X. My Oppo needs to be upgraded to the 203 model to do UHD, speakers need to be added for Atmos and my projector needs to be upgraded for 4k and 3d.


I hear you...This hobby is a journey with no end. Everything is a stepping stone to the next thing. Nothing in this hobby is timeless.

That being said...You can focus on all the reviews, specs, issues, tech talk etc. Or you can take the plunge and enjoy things for what they are. I choose the later.

If you really want to be practical you need to wait for the tech to mature. It may be awhile before we see affordable projectors that meet the HDR standard.

That being said, at this moment there really is no HDR standard. It is still being ironed out. In the meantime this Epson is a nice improvement over the old 5030.

I would say a 20% to 25% increase in picture quality. For the price it is worth it to me. I plan to replace it in 3 years when the technology matures.

HDR and the BT2020 colorspace are the future there is no doubt about that. It may not currently be perfect but the "faux K" is a definite improvement over 1080p, and that will hold me over for awhile.


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post #4522 of 18082 Old 12-29-2016, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
Your calibration isn't invalidated. It's just a brightness and contrast adjustment that's needed. Each time you switch between normal and expanded you should readjust the brightness and contrast settings.

What is your source device and what is that set to, normal (Video) or expanded (PC)?




Your source (PS4) should have the same setting as the display, normal or expanded. They should match. Just about everything home theater (video levels) should be mastered in the normal 16-235 mode. PCs are the only thing that should be using expanded mode. If they're matching and you can't get the bars to correctly set your brightness and contrast levels then it's most likely due to the source clipping those values, which they can do. It used to be a bigger problem, but still can occur.

Just a tip, I did however switch to expanded to help with a larger dynamic brightness range for stripped HDR with bt2020 wide color gamut when I had my Xbox One S going to my Sony VW350ES. I did have to readjust the black and white levels though to get a proper image.

When I got the VW365ES it supported HDR and had the HDR Contrast slider so I no longer needed to do that. Since the 5040/6040 doesn't have this feature, this may help with it showing brighter images when displaying HDR.
I had another look at this and as you say blacks are blacker with normal mode active, but when I run the dynamic range test in calman it reports the whites are being clipped at 235.

Upon switching to expanded and then re-running the test no clipping occurs.

Whats confusing me is if expanded does not allow blacker than black or whiter than white why does calman report clipping in normal mode?

Should it not be the other way round?
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post #4523 of 18082 Old 12-29-2016, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by achanonier View Post
Hi there
Juste a quick post to say that I have finally found my UHD settings

I use a Panasonic UHD player that allow a very good and user parametrable HDR to SDR conversion (it has a specific "Dynamic Range Conversion" slider that adjust the max noit output of your display).
And in between the player and the PJ I sue a HD Fury Linker in order to keep BT2020 color space.

I've been tweaking things for days literraly and this is for me by far the best and most consistent setting I can have.

I keep WCG with great colors and dynamic and the customized HDR-->SDR conversion brings out an almost HDR feel of the image.

I'm not sure you can do better with HDR engaged because if you tweak gamma / brightness / contrast to get a bright enough image in HDR you simply kill / reduce the dynamic range almost to SDR (which is quite logical as you keep maximum PJ brightness and bring up average brightness to an acceptable level thus dropping global dynamic range)
just want to send a thankyou! for information about the panny and hd fury.
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post #4524 of 18082 Old 12-30-2016, 12:52 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
I had another look at this and as you say blacks are blacker with normal mode active, but when I run the dynamic range test in calman it reports the whites are being clipped at 235.

Upon switching to expanded and then re-running the test no clipping occurs.

Whats confusing me is if expanded does not allow blacker than black or whiter than white why does calman report clipping in normal mode?

Should it not be the other way round?

It sounds like maybe your source and display aren't set to the same setting. Almost like the source is expanded and being squished into the limited range, clipping WTW. Therefore setting to expanded opens it up to allow it to display.

What's your source device and all your settings? What is your "Super White" setting?
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post #4525 of 18082 Old 12-30-2016, 03:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
You're correct about the digital values for both, but it's actually the normal setting that allows for seeing blacker than black and whiter than white
content. Video is mastered (or is supposed to be) with the black levels set at digital value 16 and peak white value at 235. This allows head (236-255) and tail (0-15) room to put blacker than black and whiter than white signals/information. If you watch a video mastered with black at 16 and then set the display to expanded, it pushes the 16 value signal down to 0, thus not allowing any signals below that (blacker than black). The same is true in the opposite end of the spectrum for whites that get pushed up from 235 to 255, crushing any whiter than whites.
If we are talking about the projectors setting, doesn't it work like this:

When using normal, the projector uses it's full dynamic range to display values 16-235 and you are not able to see 0-15 and 236-255. When you change to expanded, you can see all the levels including the 0-15 and 236-255.

But since the BTB(0-15) and WTW(236-255) levels usually doesn't contain any information, normal mode is recommended. Also with normal mode you are not wasting brightness to displaying WTW signals.
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post #4526 of 18082 Old 12-30-2016, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
It sounds like maybe your source and display aren't set to the same setting. Almost like the source is expanded and being squished into the limited range, clipping WTW. Therefore setting to expanded opens it up to allow it to display.

What's your source device and all your settings? What is your "Super White" setting?
My source is a Panasonic UB700 set to normal mode which another poster tells me is video mode.

My pattern generator is a lumagen radiance with levels set to video.

I have super white off but turning it on stops the clipping occuring.

What does super white actually do?
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post #4527 of 18082 Old 12-30-2016, 05:18 AM
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I have narrowed my choices down to the sammy 8500 or philips 7501. Can anyone recommend which unit works better for uhd blu rays? I would like to go buy it today but dont want to make the wrong choice. I know the first page says the philips is the only one that does hdr correctly but i saw later in this thread someone stated they had a firmware update on the sammy and it fixed it
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post #4528 of 18082 Old 12-30-2016, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by bigboar View Post
I have narrowed my choices down to the sammy 8500 or philips 7501. Can anyone recommend which unit works better for uhd blu rays? I would like to go buy it today but dont want to make the wrong choice. I know the first page says the philips is the only one that does hdr correctly but i saw later in this thread someone stated they had a firmware update on the sammy and it fixed it
+1 for Philips..
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post #4529 of 18082 Old 12-30-2016, 06:06 AM
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It's official! I returned the Sony 75" 940D last night! I have an Epson 5040ube on order! Also doing a screen size increase to a Silver Ticket fixed 120" gray screen! I decided against any drop-down screens as I can't stand wrinkles! I'll just keep the Sony 65" in the closet and set it up in front of the PJ screen when needed.

I hope the Panny ub900 pairs well with the Epson...

Are my TDGBT500A Sony active 3D glasses going to work with the Epson? Or should I return those and get something different?

It was funny being in line at BB last night, "What's wrong with the TV? Too big?"
"No, too SMALL!" My wife's happy. I'm happy if she is.
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post #4530 of 18082 Old 12-30-2016, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Johnson 3 View Post
It's official! I returned the Sony 75" 940D last night! I have an Epson 5040ube on order! Also doing a screen size increase to a Silver Ticket fixed 120" gray screen! I decided against any drop-down screens as I can't stand wrinkles! I'll just keep the Sony 65" in the closet and set it up in front of the PJ screen when needed.

I hope the Panny ub900 pairs well with the Epson...

Are my TDGBT500A Sony active 3D glasses going to work with the Epson? Or should I return those and get something different?

It was funny being in line at BB last night, "What's wrong with the TV? Too big?"
"No, too SMALL!" My wife's happy. I'm happy if she is.
I´m interested to hear what you think when you get it.
I bought 5040ub after month of thinking between that and a Sony 75 940D. But my conculsion was that sure the 940D will give me better image quality. But I don´t think I can go down in screen size(Already had a sanyo z2000 and 90 inch screen). So I went for 5040ub and a 106 inch screen .
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