Official Epson 5040ub/6040ub owners thread - Page 242 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7231 of 17703 Old 04-13-2017, 04:34 PM
 
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WELL ****! I just bought the Philips player 2 months ago. That HDR slider sounds interesting!
Time for an upgrade!
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post #7232 of 17703 Old 04-13-2017, 04:48 PM
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Time for an upgrade!
Think it would be possible for Philips to add that into a firmware update with enough pestering their IT department?

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post #7233 of 17703 Old 04-13-2017, 04:51 PM
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Maybe I'll go to Best Buy with my elite status and buy the Panasonic UB900 to see what the new HDR brightness option offers and return it if it's nothing special.
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post #7234 of 17703 Old 04-13-2017, 06:06 PM
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Image is Jittery when using 4k 24hz on NVidia

I've had the projector for a few weeks now and I've noticed some imagery (particularly expansive panning shots) that the image is jittery or juddering. It is enough to be distracting from the image. I am using the NVidia Shield with the 4k 24hz setting which was the setting suggested by people on the forum to get the BT 2020 color range. I notice it when I am playing Planet Earth 2 on the NVidia. When I change the setting to 4k 60hz the jittering goes away, but I notice a decrease in color range/quality. My AVR is the Yamaha RX-V679BL 7.2-Channel MusicCast AV Receiver with Bluetooth

Is anyone else experiencing this? Any thoughts/suggestions would be welcome. Thanks!
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post #7235 of 17703 Old 04-13-2017, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by swyda038 View Post
Image is Jittery when using 4k 24hz on NVidia

I've had the projector for a few weeks now and I've noticed some imagery (particularly expansive panning shots) that the image is jittery or juddering. It is enough to be distracting from the image. I am using the NVidia Shield with the 4k 24hz setting which was the setting suggested by people on the forum to get the BT 2020 color range. I notice it when I am playing Planet Earth 2 on the NVidia. When I change the setting to 4k 60hz the jittering goes away, but I notice a decrease in color range/quality. My AVR is the Yamaha RX-V679BL 7.2-Channel MusicCast AV Receiver with Bluetooth

Is anyone else experiencing this? Any thoughts/suggestions would be welcome. Thanks!
With the shield, it seems to be all about the source. Netflix has less problems than other apps I've noticed. FOXNOW app was terrible on certain movies. Switched and watched some stuff on netflix and no jutter. Jutter is why I'm now buying 4k UHD discs for the best quality possible of motion and details.

CURRENT SETUP:
Sony X940E / Denon AVR-S730h /
NVIDIA SHIELD TV 2017 / PANASONIC UB820 UHD PLAYER / MAudio BX8a front mains / Klipsch R‑15PM rear left/right / Emotiva C1 center / Polk Audio OWM3 height left/right.
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post #7236 of 17703 Old 04-13-2017, 06:24 PM
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Just want to bounce something off you guys, I'm downunder and got an 8300/5040ub the other day and the 3D is great as far as ghosting and crosstalk is concerned but the damn thing has faint diagonal lines running through it in 3D mode only. 2D is fine and looks great. It's not the glasses because you can see them when you're not wearing them. Have tried 4k cables, swapping players and plugging everything into the same power pack but it's doing my head in. Have rung Epson and lodged a ticket but now it's Easter not expecting to hear back from them for a while

Thanks and have a great Easter break everyone
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post #7237 of 17703 Old 04-13-2017, 06:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ken8 View Post
Just want to bounce something off you guys, I'm downunder and got an 8300/5040ub the other day and the 3D is great as far as ghosting and crosstalk is concerned but the damn thing has faint diagonal lines running through it in 3D mode only. 2D is fine and looks great. It's not the glasses because you can see them when you're not wearing them. Have tried 4k cables, swapping players and plugging everything into the same power pack but it's doing my head in. Have rung Epson and lodged a ticket but now it's Easter not expecting to hear back from them for a while

Thanks and have a great Easter break everyone
I wonder if your 50Hz AC power has anything to do with it? I have seen AC and noisy/bad/mismatched power do some weird things with electronics over my career!
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post #7238 of 17703 Old 04-13-2017, 07:23 PM
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need some help with my screen size. Apparently i am an idiot and cannot figure out how to use these throw calculators. My distance from lens to screen is 148 inches, or 12 ft 4 inches. I currently have a 110 inch screen and we sit about 11 feet from the screen. I am wanting to go bigger but when i try to use these calculators i am getting results saying the larges i can go is 106 inches. Obviously i know that is incorrect because i am at 110 inch screen now. Can anyone help me with this and tell me how big i can go from 12 ft 4 inches with the 5040?

Thanks in advance for the help!
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post #7239 of 17703 Old 04-13-2017, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by bmock17 View Post
need some help with my screen size. Apparently i am an idiot and cannot figure out how to use these throw calculators. My distance from lens to screen is 148 inches, or 12 ft 4 inches. I currently have a 110 inch screen and we sit about 11 feet from the screen. I am wanting to go bigger but when i try to use these calculators i am getting results saying the larges i can go is 106 inches. Obviously i know that is incorrect because i am at 110 inch screen now. Can anyone help me with this and tell me how big i can go from 12 ft 4 inches with the 5040?

Thanks in advance for the help!
120" 16:9 screen, throw range will be 11' 10" to 24' 10"
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post #7240 of 17703 Old 04-13-2017, 07:49 PM
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120" 16:9 screen, throw range will be 11' 10" to 24' 10"
Thank you. So that is the biggest? I was looking at a 135" 16:9 but i guess that will not work. I wonder if it is even worth buying a new screen to go go 10" bigger.
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post #7241 of 17703 Old 04-13-2017, 08:11 PM
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Thank you. So that is the biggest? I was looking at a 135" 16:9 but i guess that will not work. I wonder if it is even worth buying a new screen to go go 10" bigger.
For 135" you will need to move the projector any place from 13' 3" to 27' 11" a foot back
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post #7242 of 17703 Old 04-13-2017, 08:12 PM
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For 135" you will need to move the projector any place from 13' 3" to 27' 11" a foot back
Got it. Thanks again for the help.
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post #7243 of 17703 Old 04-13-2017, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
I wonder if your 50Hz AC power has anything to do with it? I have seen AC and noisy/bad/mismatched power do some weird things with electronics over my career!
Thanks for that. The odd thing is I don't have that problem with my 5020 in the same configuration. I had an in home demo of a 6600 Epson and that was displaying the same problem and thought it was a fault with that unit
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post #7244 of 17703 Old 04-13-2017, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by swyda038 View Post
Image is Jittery when using 4k 24hz on NVidia

I've had the projector for a few weeks now and I've noticed some imagery (particularly expansive panning shots) that the image is jittery or juddering. It is enough to be distracting from the image. I am using the NVidia Shield with the 4k 24hz setting which was the setting suggested by people on the forum to get the BT 2020 color range. I notice it when I am playing Planet Earth 2 on the NVidia. When I change the setting to 4k 60hz the jittering goes away, but I notice a decrease in color range/quality. My AVR is the Yamaha RX-V679BL 7.2-Channel MusicCast AV Receiver with Bluetooth

Is anyone else experiencing this? Any thoughts/suggestions would be welcome. Thanks!
What app are you using to display this? I noticed the same thing when using Kodi, but if you got into settings and set it to 'force display resolution' (Possibly under 'performance?' I can double check tomorrow), it will eliminate the judder while keeping 24fps HDR signal. Found this through trial and error after finding myself in the same position you were in :-)
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post #7245 of 17703 Old 04-13-2017, 11:27 PM
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Can anyone with a Panasonic UB900 post a video to youtube showing how effective the new HDR brightness adjustment is in the new firmware update?
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post #7246 of 17703 Old 04-14-2017, 12:53 AM
 
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I'll try to post or send a video tonight for you.
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post #7247 of 17703 Old 04-14-2017, 03:44 AM
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What app are you using to display this? I noticed the same thing when using Kodi, but if you got into settings and set it to 'force display resolution' (Possibly under 'performance?' I can double check tomorrow), it will eliminate the judder while keeping 24fps HDR signal. Found this through trial and error after finding myself in the same position you were in :-)
Thanks for the reply.

I bought the Planet Earth 2 movie through the google tv & movie app that came with NVidia Shield. Is there a way on that app to force display or is there a way to use the Kodi app to play a movie I purchased with the google tv/movie app?

Thanks for your input!
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post #7248 of 17703 Old 04-14-2017, 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Evan201 View Post
With the shield, it seems to be all about the source. Netflix has less problems than other apps I've noticed. FOXNOW app was terrible on certain movies. Switched and watched some stuff on netflix and no jutter. Jutter is why I'm now buying 4k UHD discs for the best quality possible of motion and details.
Thanks for the reply.

I currently am using a wired hdmi connection, but I do have a UBE unit with wireless capability. If I switched to using the wireless transmitter, would that solve the problem or is it specifically about the source information?
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post #7249 of 17703 Old 04-14-2017, 09:11 AM
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I'll try to post or send a video tonight for you.
You're the man Dave. Can't wait to see this update.

CURRENT SETUP:
Sony X940E / Denon AVR-S730h /
NVIDIA SHIELD TV 2017 / PANASONIC UB820 UHD PLAYER / MAudio BX8a front mains / Klipsch R‑15PM rear left/right / Emotiva C1 center / Polk Audio OWM3 height left/right.

Last edited by Evan201; 04-14-2017 at 12:04 PM.
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post #7250 of 17703 Old 04-14-2017, 10:39 AM
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Hey everyone,

I posted this in another forum but was advised to ask it here:

I'm trying to decide if the 5040UB is right for me. I'll be using it in a living room environment with an ALR screen. There seems to be a large discrepancy in reported lumens for bright cinema mode. ProjectorReviews.com measured 1115 lumens and projectorcentral.com measured 1863 lumens in medium lamp setting. Is there a consensus in the community on light output of this projector?

http://www.projectorreviews.com/epso...-lamp-settings

http://www.projectorcentral.com/epso...ge=Performance

Thanks.
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post #7251 of 17703 Old 04-14-2017, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Joe.Swirls View Post
Hey everyone,

I posted this in another forum but was advised to ask it here:

I'm trying to decide if the 5040UB is right for me. I'll be using it in a living room environment with an ALR screen. There seems to be a large discrepancy in reported lumens for bright cinema mode. ProjectorReviews.com measured 1115 lumens and projectorcentral.com measured 1863 lumens in medium lamp setting. Is there a consensus in the community on light output of this projector?

http://www.projectorreviews.com/epso...-lamp-settings

http://www.projectorcentral.com/epso...ge=Performance

Thanks.
I have an Elite Screens Custom Cinegrey 5d 105" screen mounted 12' away from the PJ in a living room setup and its terrific. You won't be disappointed with the outcome. Especially when the lamp is on High when viewing HDR. I only run ECO mode for SDR. Looks incredible.

CURRENT SETUP:
Sony X940E / Denon AVR-S730h /
NVIDIA SHIELD TV 2017 / PANASONIC UB820 UHD PLAYER / MAudio BX8a front mains / Klipsch R‑15PM rear left/right / Emotiva C1 center / Polk Audio OWM3 height left/right.
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post #7252 of 17703 Old 04-14-2017, 11:28 AM
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I have an Elite Screens Custom Cinegrey 5d 105" screen mounted 12' away from the PJ in a living room setup and its terrific. You won't be disappointed with the outcome. Especially when the lamp is on High when viewing HDR. I only run ECO mode for SDR. Looks incredible.
Thanks Evan. Do you use your set-up as a full TV replacement or only when it's dark? Basically, I'm trying to determine if the 5040UB w/an ALR screen will be ok as a total TV replacement in my living room. I'm also considering the Epson 3700 but if Projector Centrals lumen numbers are accurate then the 5040UB in Bright Cinema and high lamp mode get's pretty close to the 3700.
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post #7253 of 17703 Old 04-14-2017, 12:02 PM
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Thanks Evan. Do you use your set-up as a full TV replacement or only when it's dark? Basically, I'm trying to determine if the 5040UB w/an ALR screen will be ok as a total TV replacement in my living room. I'm also considering the Epson 3700 but if Projector Centrals lumen numbers are accurate then the 5040UB in Bright Cinema and high lamp mode get's pretty close to the 3700.
Yes, my wife and I use it as a complete tv replacement. Golf on the weekends during the day looks fantastic. You'll be pleased. Light coming towards the ALR screen from the 6'oclock position is the worst so if you can help it, remove light from 6oclock because that light will go directly to the screen. Side angle light is the best for AL reduction ability with ALR screens.
I can private message you a screen shot or two this weekend of how my setup looks with some blinds open. My blinds happen to be at the 6'oclock position in my apartment, but this PJ still handles business.

CURRENT SETUP:
Sony X940E / Denon AVR-S730h /
NVIDIA SHIELD TV 2017 / PANASONIC UB820 UHD PLAYER / MAudio BX8a front mains / Klipsch R‑15PM rear left/right / Emotiva C1 center / Polk Audio OWM3 height left/right.
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post #7254 of 17703 Old 04-14-2017, 12:32 PM
 
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Official Epson 5040ub/6040ub owners thread

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Originally Posted by Evan201 View Post
You're the man Dave. Can't wait to see this update.

I didn't get more than about 10 minutes last night in there unfortunately, but I was able to quickly download and install the UB900 FW update. I flicked on the 5040 real quick and the dynamic range adjustment does work! I played those ghostbusters scenes I did the night before using Digital Cinema mode after making adjustments using the R Masciola's HDR UHD test patterns which I have permanently connected to the front USB port on a flash drive. I ended up using DR slider range between 10-12 (12 is max). You have to only use the Normal AUTO setting on the projector's Dynamic Range, Not the AUTO (Bright) setting anymore, or it will blow out you white clipping point down to about 400 nits iirc. I like to clip my HDR between 1,000 and 1,200 nits or so, and this allowed that nicely without blowing out the highs and colors.

This gives a very pleasing picture that finally looks bright enough using Digital Cinema Mode with the WCG filter engaged. I did a quick comparison with my pseudo HDR using SDR settings and I have to say, the pseudo HDR is da bomb diggity!!! I can't believe the image I am getting with this hack of improper for SDR settings! The low and high level details and sharpness and realism are astonishing to say the least! I never knew there was that much picture info down there! Watch the final scenes of ghostbusters....wow!

I'll try to do more later though.
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post #7255 of 17703 Old 04-14-2017, 12:38 PM
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Dynamic range adjustment??? Where is that?

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DIY Theater:5-6 Person 1 row; Double Layer 5/8 DW & Green Glue Sandwich Construction; DIY Acoustic panels; 5.2.4 (TF/TR); Mains: Aperion Audio Grand Verus ; Center:Aperion Grand Verus; Surrounds:Polk RC85i In-walls; Tops: Polk VT60 In-ceiling; Sub: Dual DIY Dayton UM 15s tuned to 20hz/6.2 ft^3 Enclosure; PJ: Epson UB5010; Screen: Elite Screens Sable 120" Fixed; Receiver: Denon x4200w; OB Amps: Behringer 3000 w/DSP (Subs); Aux amp: Pioneer Elite SC-85 (for TRs); Sources: PS4: PS3; HD-DVD.
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post #7256 of 17703 Old 04-14-2017, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan201 View Post
Yes, my wife and I use it as a complete tv replacement. Golf on the weekends during the day looks fantastic. You'll be pleased. Light coming towards the ALR screen from the 6'oclock position is the worst so if you can help it, remove light from 6oclock because that light will go directly to the screen. Side angle light is the best for AL reduction ability with ALR screens.
I can private message you a screen shot or two this weekend of how my setup looks with some blinds open. My blinds happen to be at the 6'oclock position in my apartment, but this PJ still handles business.
That would be awesome. Thanks again for the info!
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post #7257 of 17703 Old 04-14-2017, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
I didn't get more than about 10 minutes last night in there unfortunately, but I was able to quickly download and install the UB900 FW update. I flicked on the 5040 real quick and the dynamic range adjustment does work! I played those ghostbusters scenes I did the night before using Digital Cinema mode after making adjustments using the R Masciola's HDR UHD test patterns which I have permanently connected to the front USB port on a flash drive. I ended up using DR slider range between 10-12 (12 is max). You have to only use the Normal AUTO setting on the projector's Dynamic Range, Not the AUTO (Bright) setting anymore, or it will blow out you white clipping point down to about 400 nits iirc. I like to clip my HDR between 1,000 and 1,200 nits or so, and this allowed that nicely without blowing out the highs and colors.
Sounds cool. I tried out your Digital Cinema with SDR for HDR content settings last night. I just can't seem to enjoy the dimness of Digital Cinema.
Tonight i'm going to try the same settings you posted with the forced SDR in signal, but this time with the Natural or Bright Cinema mode instead of Digi Cinema.

Any way you could post a screen shot of your regular settings, and then a shot with the HDR slider boosted up on the UB900 for comparison?
Could you possibly do that in the Natural or Bright Cinema with standard HDR signal sent too? I probably wont settle on the Digital Cinema option, but maybe since this new HDR slider is available now and If I go out and buy the UB900 i might.

Another question, Is the UB900 really $400 better than the Philips player with handling of the UHD dics? Isn't the picture quality rendering from all of the UHD players going to be similar or do they really stand apart from each other enough to justify the major cost differences out there?
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Last edited by Evan201; 04-14-2017 at 01:11 PM.
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post #7258 of 17703 Old 04-14-2017, 04:11 PM
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Yes you're correct.


Would your recommended settings also apply for a "strip HDR" configuration? I have the Oppo 203 where I can strip the HDR metadata, so would it be appropriate to use your settings with stripping?

A few other questions:

1. Are you using Extended HDMI Video or Auto/Normal with SuperWhite ON or OFF?
2. Did you make any changes to the offset/gain for RGB, or leave all at 50?
3. Did you make any changes to RGBCMY for brightness/hue/saturation, or leave all at 50?

Lastly, and I'm asking cause I thought I saw some other posts or threads that support this question:. Isn't changing the projector to SDR on an HDR signal and then trying to calibrate the wrong thing to do?

Not trying to question your findings at all, I really have no clue what the "correct" approach is or even if there is a "correct" approach --- but IIRC that's why others talk about stripping HDR through the player or integral/linker (whichever is the right one) vs just turning off HDR in the Epson. OR is your suggestion a "good alternative" for those that can't strip the HDR flag?


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post #7259 of 17703 Old 04-14-2017, 05:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by spirithockey79 View Post
Would your recommended settings also apply for a "strip HDR" configuration? I have the Oppo 203 where I can strip the HDR metadata, so would it be appropriate to use your settings with stripping?.....
No it wouldn't work for that (if you strip HDR). That's because when you strip it with an Oppo 203 or HDFury device, you make the source do the tone mapping from HDR to SDR, but these settings rely on the display/projector still getting the full HDR/WCG signal to work properly. In your case, the projector is still getting an SDR signal, but it needs HDR for my settings to work.


Quote:
Originally Posted by spirithockey79 View Post
A few other questions:

1. Are you using Extended HDMI Video or Auto/Normal with SuperWhite ON or OFF?
2. Did you make any changes to the offset/gain for RGB, or leave all at 50?
3. Did you make any changes to RGBCMY for brightness/hue/saturation, or leave all at 50?
1. Normal HDMI Video Range with SuperWhite OFF
2. The only change I made to those was to calibrate the greyscale. They have no real impact on the settings I used for pseudo HDR.
3. I set them all back to 50 iirc, but I think initially I had some settings changes in there from prior tests when I did a CMS cal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spirithockey79 View Post
Lastly, and I'm asking cause I thought I saw some other posts or threads that support this question:. Isn't changing the projector to SDR on an HDR signal and then trying to calibrate the wrong thing to do?
Yes, normally it would be because the parameters of each signal are so vastly different, but I recalled reading a thread here on AVS that discussed "pseudo-HDR", I think from back in 2015/2016. I read it and don't recall there being any actual tests or findings from it though, then I remembered something that was said that gave me a hint to try this theory. Finally, with all this talk of custom gamma curves going on, especially with the JVCs, I tried using Custom Gamma on the 5040 and I found one based on oledurt's gamma that I tweaked and fell in love with! This made me recall the pseudo-HDR discussion and I wondered if doing the reverse custom gamma could work for that (If you look at the custom curve for my settings you will see it is almost a 180 degree mirror image of the JVC and Epson custom curves!). I decided to send HDR to the 5040, put it in SDR mode, knowing initially it would be way out of whack, then just started messing with it using HDR UHD WCG test patterns from R. Masciola's, as well as real world images from The Revenant. It made it MUCH easier since when you're in the Custom Gamma of the Epsons, each point you click on makes that particular gamma range in the image flash on and off, so you know exactly what you're adjusting and can go in and tweak whatever image area seems to not look right!

After hours of tweaking, way into the wee hours of the night, this is what I ended up with. It is still a work in progress though, of course, and I really need others to test it on their 5040/6040's and especially on other models like the LS10000/10500 to see if it crosses model lines, which I think it should given that we are talking playing with a "standard" (SDR) and and not something that's model or upgrade specific.


Quote:
Originally Posted by spirithockey79 View Post
Not trying to question your findings at all, I really have no clue what the "correct" approach is or even if there is a "correct" approach --- but IIRC that's why others talk about stripping HDR through the player or integral/linker (whichever is the right one) vs just turning off HDR in the Epson. OR is your suggestion a "good alternative" for those that can't strip the HDR flag?
Well, considering no one has tried this method before that I know of, and the mish mash that is HDR on projectors currently, I am not sure there really is a "correct method" yet. What I am doing is basically the same thing that the UHD player is doing....tone mapping the HDR signal to SDR. I am just doing it manually after figuring out what needs to happen to the SDR parameters to show an HDR signal correctly on an SDR display.

This is what brings my settings into play actually. If you just "turn off HDR in the Epson", that won't stop the source from still sending the HDR signal. That has to be stripped off by an Oppo or HDFury Device as we all know, if you want to just use standard SDR settings and strip HDR to get an SDR bt2020 signal.

This is indeed a good alternative for those that can't strip the HDR flag, but the problem is, if your display isn't HDR capable then it's EDID will tell the player that, which in turn the player will then do it's own tone mapping, so it won't send the pure HDR WCG 4K signal to your display in the first place for you to apply my pseudo-HDR settings. If your display is like the 5040, where you can just set it to SDR mode instead of HDR, then you can just do that. But if it can't accept HDR at all, like the LS10000, then you need a device like the Linker to spoof your player into sending the full HDR WCG signal. The Linker is great with its new FW (1.09?) that maintains its ability to strip the HDR off and maintain WCG bt2020, but can now also tell the source to send full HDR/WCG and on its output can strip the HDR flag that triggers your display into its HDR mode, so an SDR only display will never know it's actually getting an HDR signal! This feature is also being used by JVC folks to keep the Dynamic Iris operating in HDR mode and to keep it from reverting to Gamma D, which many don't like, from their own custom gamma that was imported.

I am actualy contending also that this tricked out SDR image with an HDR signal actually looks better than doing tone mapping in the source, and I did do a comparison and felt that way. It also seems to be better than actually just using the various HDR modes on the HDR signal, if the display is capable of it, from what I have seen so far! It could be a matter of taste though too, as some may like the darker, dimmer images of HDR modes on their projector. Me, I like when I can pull out the details in the shadows and low APL areas and maintain proper black levels, which this seems to really do, in spades! It also makes the top end whites, highlights and specular flashes look awesome without clipping from what I've seen so far! Seems like the best of both SDR and HDR worlds to me, at least at this juncture in testing. I just really need others to help out too.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
No it wouldn't work for that (if you strip HDR). That's because when you strip it with an Oppo 203 or HDFury device, you make the source do the tone mapping from HDR to SDR, but these settings rely on the display/projector still getting the full HDR/WCG signal to work properly. In your case, the projector is still getting an SDR signal, but it needs HDR for my settings to work.









1. Normal HDMI Video Range with SuperWhite OFF

2. The only change I made to those was to calibrate the greyscale. They have no real impact on the settings I used for pseudo HDR.

3. I set them all back to 50 iirc, but I think initially I had some settings changes in there from prior tests when I did a CMS cal.







Yes, normally it would be because the parameters of each signal are so vastly different, but I recalled reading a thread here on AVS that discussed "pseudo-HDR", I think from back in 2015/2016. I read it and don't recall there being any actual tests or findings from it though, then I remembered something that was said that gave me a hint to try this theory. Finally, with all this talk of custom gamma curves going on, especially with the JVCs, I tried using Custom Gamma on the 5040 and I found one based on oledurt's gamma that I tweaked and fell in love with! This made me recall the pseudo-HDR discussion and I wondered if doing the reverse custom gamma could work for that (If you look at the custom curve for my settings you will see it is almost a 180 degree mirror image of the JVC and Epson custom curves!). I decided to send HDR to the 5040, put it in SDR mode, knowing initially it would be way out of whack, then just started messing with it using HDR UHD WCG test patterns from R. Masciola's, as well as real world images from The Revenant. It made it MUCH easier since when you're in the Custom Gamma of the Epsons, each point you click on makes that particular gamma range in the image flash on and off, so you know exactly what you're adjusting and can go in and tweak whatever image area seems to not look right!



After hours of tweaking, way into the wee hours of the night, this is what I ended up with. It is still a work in progress though, of course, and I really need others to test it on their 5040/6040's and especially on other models like the LS10000/10500 to see if it crosses model lines, which I think it should given that we are talking playing with a "standard" (SDR) and and not something that's model or upgrade specific.









Well, considering no one has tried this method before that I know of, and the mish mash that is HDR on projectors currently, I am not sure there really is a "correct method" yet. What I am doing is basically the same thing that the UHD player is doing....tone mapping the HDR signal to SDR. I am just doing it manually after figuring out what needs to happen to the SDR parameters to show an HDR signal correctly on an SDR display.



This is what brings my settings into play actually. If you just "turn off HDR in the Epson", that won't stop the source from still sending the HDR signal. That has to be stripped off by an Oppo or HDFury Device as we all know, if you want to just use standard SDR settings and strip HDR to get an SDR bt2020 signal.



This is indeed a good alternative for those that can't strip the HDR flag, but the problem is, if your display isn't HDR capable then it's EDID will tell the player that, which in turn the player will then do it's own tone mapping, so it won't send the pure HDR WCG 4K signal to your display in the first place for you to apply my pseudo-HDR settings. If your display is like the 5040, where you can just set it to SDR mode instead of HDR, then you can just do that. But if it can't accept HDR at all, like the LS10000, then you need a device like the Linker to spoof your player into sending the full HDR WCG signal. The Linker is great with its new FW (1.09?) that maintains its ability to strip the HDR off and maintain WCG bt2020, but can now also tell the source to send full HDR/WCG and on its output can strip the HDR flag that triggers your display into its HDR mode, so an SDR only display will never know it's actually getting an HDR signal! This feature is also being used by JVC folks to keep the Dynamic Iris operating in HDR mode and to keep it from reverting to Gamma D, which many don't like, from their own custom gamma that was imported.



I am actualy contending also that this tricked out SDR image with an HDR signal actually looks better than doing tone mapping in the source, and I did do a comparison and felt that way. It also seems to be better than actually just using the various HDR modes on the HDR signal, if the display is capable of it, from what I have seen so far! It could be a matter of taste though too, as some may like the darker, dimmer images of HDR modes on their projector. Me, I like when I can pull out the details in the shadows and low APL areas and maintain proper black levels, which this seems to really do, in spades! It also makes the top end whites, highlights and specular flashes look awesome without clipping from what I've seen so far! Seems like the best of both SDR and HDR worlds to me, at least at this juncture in testing. I just really need others to help out too.


Appreciate you taking the time to provide that kind of detail. I'm trying your settings out on the Passengers UHD and I gotta say it's pretty darn good. I do have a question about your brightness settings though. Seems a bit dark with some black crush. Turning it up on mine to about 51 or 52 looks better, or switching to Expanded and bringing brightness down to 42 looks really good. Any reason why you wouldn't want Expandex over Normal for better shadow detail?

I'm wondering if I should just be using my standard brightness settings for Digital Cinema via my S&M disc. I'm guessing I don't need an HDR signal for that, correct? Is it just as simple as using your settings with the brightness pattern?


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