Official Epson 5040ub/6040ub owners thread - Page 480 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #14371 of 18073 Old 05-04-2018, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by mhbernheim View Post
am I mistaken, or the epson 5040ub cant display 4k + HDR? Apple tv 4k says it cant display hdr while playing on the epson 5040ub, it switches to sdr. it will, however, display 1080p with HDR content fine...
Answer is in this post.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-dig...l#post56079386
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post #14372 of 18073 Old 05-04-2018, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Natrix1973 View Post
thanks so much! i had actually stumbled on that and added the 24hz hdr version but gave up since I saw the menu of apple tv stutter

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post #14373 of 18073 Old 05-04-2018, 08:44 PM
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For those interested, I asked Epson about the latest V1.12 firmware and this was the response I got: "The new 1.12 fw version brought a very minor update that changed the default HDR mode from Mode 2 to Mode 1, which is the brightest HDR mode. Aside from that no changes were made the projectors operating system with the new update.".
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post #14374 of 18073 Old 05-04-2018, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avtoronto View Post
For those interested, I asked Epson about the latest V1.12 firmware and this was the response I got: "The new 1.12 fw version brought a very minor update that changed the default HDR mode from Mode 2 to Mode 1, which is the brightest HDR mode. Aside from that no changes were made the projectors operating system with the new update.".
v1.11 uses Mode 2 for Auto, and Mode 1 for Auto Bright. The latter seems to lead to excessive clipping is is only recommended for people who need or prefer the extra brightness.
Making Mode 1 the default seems a step backwards.
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post #14375 of 18073 Old 05-05-2018, 02:03 AM
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Official Epson 5040ub/6040ub owners thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhbernheim View Post
am I mistaken, or the epson 5040ub cant display 4k + HDR? Apple tv 4k says it cant display hdr while playing on the epson 5040ub, it switches to sdr. it will, however, display 1080p with HDR content fine...


It can set the resolution to 4K SDR 60hz, put chroma to 4:2:0 and enable frame rate and range matching. It will automatically switch to HDR when it detects an enabling source such a a 4K HDR Netflix or Amazon show. The Apple TV wants to force 12bit 60hz HDR natively regardless of content which the epsons limited hdmi chipset is not capable of, so the above settings circumvent that allowing you to get HDR on the sources that actually are true HDR.


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post #14376 of 18073 Old 05-05-2018, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrcusVaruna View Post
It can set the resolution to 4K SDR 60hz, put chroma to 4:2:0 and enable frame rate and range matching. It will automatically switch to HDR when it detects an enabling source such a a 4K HDR Netflix or Amazon show. The Apple TV wants to force 12bit 60hz HDR natively regardless of content which the epsons limited hdmi chipset is not capable of, so the above settings circumvent that allowing you to get HDR on the sources that actually are true HDR.


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I thought the setting to use is SDR 24Hz with match frame rate amd dynamc range? This setting will stream 4K or 4K/HDR Per the source material. Is there any advantage to using 4K SDR as the default instead?
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post #14377 of 18073 Old 05-05-2018, 08:18 AM
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Official Epson 5040ub/6040ub owners thread

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Originally Posted by avtoronto View Post
I thought the setting to use is SDR 24Hz with match frame rate amd dynamc range? This setting will stream 4K or 4K/HDR Per the source material. Is there any advantage to using 4K SDR as the default instead?


Using a 24hz base setting will give you terrible menu lag using 4K SDR 60hz means I get buttery smooth menus. The Apple TV does the proper range and frame rate matching to the content whether in 24hz or 60hz. I just prefer silky smooth menus any day.




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post #14378 of 18073 Old 05-05-2018, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrcusVaruna View Post
Using a 24hz base setting will give you terrible menu lag using 4K SDR 60hz means I get buttery smooth menus. The Apple TV does the proper range and frame rate matching to the content whether in 24hz or 60hz. I just prefer silky smooth menus any day.




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That's true but the apple tv always upscales 1080p content to 4k so you dont get to use the Epson upscaling.
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post #14379 of 18073 Old 05-05-2018, 10:28 AM
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Official Epson 5040ub/6040ub owners thread

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Originally Posted by The_Forth_Man View Post
That's true but the apple tv always upscales 1080p content to 4k so you dont get to use the Epson upscaling.


I personally find epsons upscaling to be atrocious. It introduces noise everywhere no matter what settings I am using. I find having my Xbox one x or Apple TV do the upscaling and turning all image enhancement off produces the best results. I do get a very slightly better image feeding the native 1080 resolution and turning off all image enhancement but it requires me to use different settings. In essence what’s calibrated for an upscaled 4K feed is no longer calibrated if I feed it at native 1080. This proved to be more annoying than it was worth for an improvement I only noticed when switching back and forth looking for differences. But to each their own that’s why threads like these exist


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post #14380 of 18073 Old 05-05-2018, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrcusVaruna View Post
I personally find epsons upscaling to be atrocious. It introduces noise everywhere no matter what settings I am using. I find having my Xbox one x or Apple TV do the upscaling and turning all image enhancement off produces the best results. I do get a very slightly better image feeding the native 1080 resolution and turning off all image enhancement but it requires me to use different settings. In essence what’s calibrated for an upscaled 4K feed is no longer calibrated if I feed it at native 1080. This proved to be more annoying than it was worth for an improvement I only noticed when switching back and forth looking for differences. But to each their own that’s why threads like these exist


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I agree and also let the Apple Tv do the upscaling. I was merely pointing out the limitations of the apple Matching abilities.
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post #14381 of 18073 Old 05-05-2018, 03:55 PM
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Hi,
Does anyone notice any diff while on HDR vs SDR?

I dont see any difference at all. The only diff is when i turn on dynamic, but then it applies toward SDR and HDR too.


So while i test with 4k HDR 30hz 12bit, i see no difference at all with 4k SDR content.





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post #14382 of 18073 Old 05-05-2018, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy.le.3388 View Post
Hi,
Does anyone notice any diff while on HDR vs SDR?

I dont see any difference at all. The only diff is when i turn on dynamic, but then it applies toward SDR and HDR too.


So while i test with 4k HDR 30hz 12bit, i see no difference at all with 4k SDR content.
HDR and SDR have very different EOTFs.

How did you do your test? The HDR test pattern needs to include the metadata that puts the projector in the HDR mode (or you can manually switch the projector to the HDR mode).
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post #14383 of 18073 Old 05-05-2018, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrcusVaruna View Post
I personally find epsons upscaling to be atrocious. It introduces noise everywhere no matter what settings I am using. I find having my Xbox one x or Apple TV do the upscaling and turning all image enhancement off produces the best results. I do get a very slightly better image feeding the native 1080 resolution and turning off all image enhancement but it requires me to use different settings. In essence what’s calibrated for an upscaled 4K feed is no longer calibrated if I feed it at native 1080. This proved to be more annoying than it was worth for an improvement I only noticed when switching back and forth looking for differences. But to each their own that’s why threads like these exist


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Yeah, I'm not a fan, either. I let my Oppo 203 upscale BRDs and DirecTV (which still looks bad garbage in = garbage out), and the ATV upscale streaming.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
HDR and SDR have very different EOTFs.



How did you do your test? The HDR test pattern needs to include the metadata that puts the projector in the HDR mode (or you can manually switch the projector to the HDR mode).


Well, i use content with HDR and so i double check with info signal and it says HDR 12bit
vs content which is not HDR and only SDR,

I use just my eyes and i dont see any diff, yes content is switchable between HDR and SDR.

No difference on appearance, not like OLED LG tv i have, HDR sees complete difference


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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy.le.3388 View Post
Well, i use content with HDR and so i double check with info signal and it says HDR 12bit
vs content which is not HDR and only SDR,

I use just my eyes and i dont see any diff, yes content is switchable between HDR and SDR.

No difference on appearance, not like OLED LG tv i have, HDR sees complete difference


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Your OLED probably puts out 400-700 nits. Your projector probably puts out 100-150 max. So of course HDR won't look the same on your projector. This is why there is so much discussion on this thread about HDR calibration. I can tell a difference but I've spent way too much time on calibration. And again the difference won't be as dramatic as you see with your OLED.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy.le.3388 View Post
Well, i use content with HDR and so i double check with info signal and it says HDR 12bit
vs content which is not HDR and only SDR,

I use just my eyes and i dont see any diff, yes content is switchable between HDR and SDR.

No difference on appearance, not like OLED LG tv i have, HDR sees complete difference


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What is your source, for your content?

You should be able to see a difference between HDR and SDR... Is your projector calibrated?

Equipment: Epson 9300W projector, Panasonic UB-424, AppleTV4K, Procella Audio Speakers...
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Official Epson 5040ub/6040ub owners thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy.le.3388 View Post
Well, i use content with HDR and so i double check with info signal and it says HDR 12bit
vs content which is not HDR and only SDR,

I use just my eyes and i dont see any diff, yes content is switchable between HDR and SDR.

No difference on appearance, not like OLED LG tv i have, HDR sees complete difference


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Try some of the hdr specific settings posted in this thread. The difference between HDR based content and SDR based content is pretty dramatic ime. Here are the settings I’m currently using for HDR and SDR.

And here is a collection of settings by professional calibrators and well known forum contributors.



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^^^Nice compilation ...

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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrcusVaruna View Post
I personally find epsons upscaling to be atrocious. It introduces noise everywhere no matter what settings I am using. I find having my Xbox one x or Apple TV do the upscaling and turning all image enhancement off produces the best results. I do get a very slightly better image feeding the native 1080 resolution and turning off all image enhancement but it requires me to use different settings. In essence what’s calibrated for an upscaled 4K feed is no longer calibrated if I feed it at native 1080. This proved to be more annoying than it was worth for an improvement I only noticed when switching back and forth looking for differences. But to each their own that’s why threads like these exist


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Absolutely. I forced everything to a 1080P setup (denon x4400, PS4) and the "4k enhancement" was atrocious. YIKES.
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OK so I would like to get both HDR and 4k signal but heard grumbling about the bandwidth limitation with this projector. Any updates on this? What bluray players are people using with this projector to get both?
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Official Epson 5040ub/6040ub owners thread

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Originally Posted by TheExecutive View Post
OK so I would like to get both HDR and 4k signal but heard grumbling about the bandwidth limitation with this projector. Any updates on this? What bluray players are people using with this projector to get both?

Really only matter for 4K 60hz HDR gaming. In order to play games in HDR you need to purchase an HD Fury Linker to scale the signal to 4K 8bit HDR in order for the projector to process it. For BD and Netflix it will accept 10 Bit 24hz HDR signals natively.

Here is my projector playing an XBOX One X HDR game with the signal processed to 8bit HDR by the Linker.





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Originally Posted by OrcusVaruna View Post
Really only matter for 4K 60hz HDR gaming. In order to play games in HDR you need to purchase an HD Fury Linker to scale the signal to 4K 8bit HDR in order for the projector to process it. For BD and Netflix it will accept 10 Bit 24hz HDR signals natively.


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But Apple TV is the only device that Netflix will send a 4K 24hz HDR signal to. All other devices are either 4K or HDR but not both.



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Originally Posted by jwhn View Post
But Apple TV is the only device that Netflix will send a 4K 24hz HDR signal to. All other devices are either 4K or HDR but not both.



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Fair enough I guess I never thought about that since I have an ATV 4K and a Linker on my Xbox so I am able to get the HDR signal regardless lol


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post #14394 of 18073 Old 05-06-2018, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwhn View Post
But Apple TV is the only device that Netflix will send a 4K 24hz HDR signal to. All other devices are either 4K or HDR but not both.
On my FireTV 4k indeed Netflix only shows UHD or HDR. However, the projector Info screen shows 4K when playing HDR shows.
Unlike the ATV, the FireTV does not have a 4K resolution setting, only Auto which goes "up to 4K". It's hard to figure out what it's sending to the projector.
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post #14395 of 18073 Old 05-06-2018, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
On my FireTV 4k indeed Netflix only shows UHD or HDR. However, the projector Info screen shows 4K when playing HDR shows.

Unlike the ATV, the FireTV does not have a 4K resolution setting, only Auto which goes "up to 4K". It's hard to figure out what it's sending to the projector.

You can use the system X-ray feature in the developer tools to see what Netflix is sending. I think you press center and down together for 5 seconds to access this. If that doesn't work you can google system X-ray.




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post #14396 of 18073 Old 05-06-2018, 04:02 PM
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Thanks @OrcusVaruna for compilation.
Can some one help me, what should be the setting on Oppo 205 when using 5040UB for display? Both for HDR and SDR?
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post #14397 of 18073 Old 05-06-2018, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwhn View Post
You can use the system X-ray feature in the developer tools to see what Netflix is sending. I think you press center and down together for 5 seconds to access this. If that doesn't work you can google system X-ray.
Thanks for the tip. Based on that, Netflix is sending 4k resolution even when the description only says HDR.
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post #14398 of 18073 Old 05-06-2018, 09:29 PM
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Time to play roulette again. Number 6 shipped out to me new in box with mount and extra bulb. Just over 1000 hrs. My dealer is gonna hate me... Purple horizontal stripes all the way across the top portion of the screen. Sorry my crappy phone camera cant depict 'em better. Checked different sources, still appear.
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post #14399 of 18073 Old 05-06-2018, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Thanks for the tip. Based on that, Netflix is sending 4k resolution even when the description only says HDR.
I assume your projector doesn't have the same chipset limitation as the Epson and therefore you can get HDR at 4K 60hz?
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post #14400 of 18073 Old 05-07-2018, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
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I assume your projector doesn't have the same chipset limitation as the Epson and therefore you can get HDR at 4K 60hz?
Yes. My question was simply prompted by Netflix’s description which does not explicitly say UHD.
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