Official Epson 5040ub/6040ub owners thread - Page 51 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1501 of 18068 Old 10-06-2016, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terminal33 View Post
Yes, I agree. It seems that is where 4K outshines 1080p the most on this projector. With 4K, the backgrounds are more detailed and clear. But the foreground images are very similar since the e-shift seems to do wonders.



I see, thanks. I have Risen 4K so I'll check that out tonight.
To me it looked that very first image of the Revenant had some camera shake or motion on screen that caused blurring that reduced resolution. The other upscaled 1080p images don't look nearly as blurry. True?

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post #1502 of 18068 Old 10-06-2016, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by ac388 View Post
Wonder if it will void the warranty ? Since there should be some part that are screw-on to the casing.
I think this will be a daunting task to get everything back together and working perfectly. Also I am pretty sure that it will void your warranty. Imagine telling your car dealer that you took your new car completely apart and now, after putting it back together it has a problem. Do you think your dealer will fix it under warranty?
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post #1503 of 18068 Old 10-06-2016, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waikis View Post
Took these images to compare 1080p (4k enhancement) 4:4:4 vs native 4k 4:2:0 with Forza Horizon 3:

4k native:
https://abload.de/img/20161001_173531uqkde.jpg

1080p enhanced
https://abload.de/img/20161001_17363662jmv.jpg

Images too big, so I'm just gonna link it. These were taken about 1m away from the screen.
4k text even in 4:2:0 is much clearer, I'm loving this projector for gaming in 4k.
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post #1504 of 18068 Old 10-06-2016, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viche View Post
To me it looked that very first image of the Revnant had some camera shake or motion on screen that caused blurring that reduced resolution. The other upscaled 1080p images don't look nearly as blurry. True?
Hmm, not sure. But it certainly could be the case since I didn't make an effort to pause the scenes at the exact same location.

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post #1505 of 18068 Old 10-06-2016, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viche View Post
To me it looked that very first image of the Revnant had some camera shake or motion on screen that caused blurring that reduced resolution. The other upscaled 1080p images don't look nearly as blurry. True?
Everyone needs to be careful when they are trying to compare screen shots...

I have found that even on the same time mark, say 6 minutes, 13 seconds, that there are several frames within that time mark. And, they may very different...that is, some will be knife-edge clear and others will be blurry.

In particular, if you are trying to compare images between different projectors, if you are not careful, what you think you see will not be what you get...

Make sure that you are on the exact same frame if you really want a valid comparison.
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post #1506 of 18068 Old 10-06-2016, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waikis View Post
Took these images to compare 1080p (4k enhancement) 4:4:4 vs native 4k 4:2:0 with Forza Horizon 3:

4k native:
https://abload.de/img/20161001_173531uqkde.jpg

1080p enhanced
https://abload.de/img/20161001_17363662jmv.jpg

Images too big, so I'm just gonna link it. These were taken about 1m away from the screen.
4K is obviously much more detailed. Is this taken from a PC? IF so, which video card?
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post #1507 of 18068 Old 10-06-2016, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by leo9000 View Post
Thanks for the information. I watched Creed last night and I set the HDR mode to 1. It looked great. I then put in Spectre to see what a regular Blu-ray looked like and it looked horrible, until I realized I had to switch off HDR1 and go back to Auto. Does anyone know if there is a quick way to switch between the Auto and HDR modes without going into the menu? Still getting used to the new projector and remote. Thanks.
I don't know of any quick way, but I know you can program that sequence if you have a Logitech Harmony remote. I've programmed a few commands already since Epson doesn't provide quicker ways. I wish the Auto feature would know to switch HDR off when watching 1080p discs.

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post #1508 of 18068 Old 10-06-2016, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terminal33 View Post
I don't know of any quick way, but I know you can program that sequence if you have a Logitech Harmony remote. I've programmed a few commands already since Epson doesn't provide quicker ways. I wish the Auto feature would know to switch HDR off when watching 1080p discs.
Can you please share your sequence? i have the same setup as yours since 6040UB is not yet in Logi DB i would love and appreciate if you share please
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post #1509 of 18068 Old 10-06-2016, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by mase1981 View Post
Can you please share your sequence? i have the same setup as yours since 6040UB is not yet in Logi DB i would love and appreciate if you share please
I haven't set up the sequence for the HDR settings. I set up a sequence to see the projector Info and one more (but I can't remember right now.) Basically all you do is tell the Logitech which buttons and arrows to push and in what order. It can be time consuming but at least you only set it up one time.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by terminal33 View Post
I haven't set up the sequence for the HDR settings. I set up a sequence to see the projector Info and one more (but I can't remember right now.) Basically all you do is tell the Logitech which buttons and arrows to push and in what order. It can be time consuming but at least you only set it up one time.
Which model did u enter for Logi to recognize this projector? since 5040 and 6050 not yet in Logi DB
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post #1511 of 18068 Old 10-06-2016, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by mase1981 View Post
Which model did u enter for Logi to recognize this projector? since 5040 and 6050 not yet in Logi DB
I entered the 5040. It should be in their database.

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post #1512 of 18068 Old 10-06-2016, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terminal33 View Post
I entered the 5040. It should be in their database.
lol. ur right..
i checked a few days ago . neither 5040 or 6040 were there . going to add 5040 since buttons should be identical thank you.
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post #1513 of 18068 Old 10-06-2016, 12:29 PM
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Update on below after I did some more testing.

1. Ultra HD BD disc (Deadpool) in Samsung K8500 is extremely dark when playing but shows the following:
1920x1080
24Hz
Color Depth 10 bit 4:4:4 - Could get this to 12 bit if I chose samsung Deep color but still horribly dark image
BT.709 HDR2

2. When I stop the playback and go to main menu (Samsung menu):
Resolution: 3840x2160
Refresh: 60Hz
Color Depth 8 bit 4:2:0
Color Format BT.709 SDR

3. When I put the Regular BluRay (Deadpool) in I get the same as above #2 , really good looking image.

4. When I put the UHD BD (Deadpool) in the XB1S I get the following:
1920x1080 24Hz 8bit

Frustrating. Finally found the HDR modes thanks to continued reading and playing. Again, any ideas why just the UHD playback fails over to HD while other content including Youtube from the Samsung plays in 4k 4.2.0?


Quote:
Originally Posted by BmanAVS View Post
How are any of you getting 4K playback with either the the X Box 1S or the Samsung UBD-K8500? I wish I would have read this thread prior to purchase! Whenever I play an Ultra HD BD disc it switches to 1080P vs. 2160. When I stop playing either source, both on Xbox 1s and Samsung, it goes back to 2160. I have tried bypassing my Denon AVR x4200W and going straight to the projector, as well as through it. I use the projector's info for the current resolution to display output setting. I'm new at this stuff, and not sure if what I should expect it to report as a display. Both will "Play" the Ultra HD but as far as resolution goes they are reporting the same output with UHD Disc as a standard bluray.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Stunning images even in 1080p but its showing 1080p BT.0709 HDR2 or somethign like that. Not sure how to recognize I am getting HDR at the right resolution. Again....obviously I need help...been reading forum for about a week trying to understand and find my answer on my own.

Thanks!
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post #1514 of 18068 Old 10-06-2016, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viche View Post
4K is obviously much more detailed. Is this taken from a PC? IF so, which video card?

yep from pc. I'm using gtx 1080.
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post #1515 of 18068 Old 10-06-2016, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BmanAVS View Post
Update on below after I did some more testing.

1. Ultra HD BD disc (Deadpool) in Samsung K8500 is extremely dark when playing but shows the following:
1920x1080
24Hz
Color Depth 10 bit 4:4:4 - Could get this to 12 bit if I chose samsung Deep color but still horribly dark image
BT.709 HDR2

2. When I stop the playback and go to main menu (Samsung menu):
Resolution: 3840x2160
Refresh: 60Hz
Color Depth 8 bit 4:2:0
Color Format BT.709 SDR

3. When I put the Regular BluRay (Deadpool) in I get the same as above #2 , really good looking image.

4. When I put the UHD BD (Deadpool) in the XB1S I get the following:
1920x1080 24Hz 8bit

Frustrating. Finally found the HDR modes thanks to continued reading and playing. Again, any ideas why just the UHD playback fails over to HD while other content including Youtube from the Samsung plays in 4k 4.2.0?
Here's my take:
...
  • The HDMI chipset in the Epson can only handle 10 GBPS (fact)
  • Per the chart below, 4k24 10 bit 4:4:4 is beyond its capability (fact)
  • The Samsung is sending a signal that the Epson can't handle, so it is being converted/remapped to 4k24 8 bit 4:2:0. This leads to the image looking darker (theory)
  • The regular Blu-Ray is 1080p and therefore much lower bandwidth, so the Epson is able to display the native signal correctly (theory)
  • Xbox One S also sends 4k HDR bluRay signal in too high of a bandwidth for the Epson HDMI chipset to handle (theory)
  • Youtube 4k videos are natively 8-bit 4:2:0, so they display properly (theory)
  • Other Players such as the Panasonic, Phillips, and hopefully Oppo have the ability to correctly export or convert higher bandwidth HDR 4K signals to a signal that the Epson can handle, so the image looks good (theory)
  • In doing so, these players are throwing away Rec 2020 color (theory)
Before certain people jump on my back...I'm trying to gain an understanding of these things myself, so as I note, some of this is just theory on my part. I know that others on here know more than I do, so I'm open to corrections, but not to thick-headed insults or suggestions that I am wasting my time.

I'm legitimately curious as to how this all works. I'm also curious to know if we are losing anything with the signal that Panasonic and Phillips deliver, and if the Fury and Oppo will deliver a better picture by stripping HDR while maintaining Rec 2020 color.
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post #1516 of 18068 Old 10-06-2016, 02:19 PM
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FYI:

Evan at Projector Central just posted:

"As you know the initial write up on the Epson ProCinema 6040 was based on a pre-production sample. I've been waiting for a final production unit before completing the review. Good news, the 6040 production unit just arrived yesterday. I am expecting to go through it and finish the review by the end of next week."
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post #1517 of 18068 Old 10-06-2016, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viche View Post

Here's my take:
...
  • The HDMI chipset in the Epson can only handle 10 GBPS (fact).
    Agreed!
    Per the chart below, 4k24 10 bit 4:4:4 is beyond its capability (fact)
    Agreed!
    The Samsung is sending a signal that the Epson can't handle, so it is being converted/remapped to 4k24 8 bit 4:2:0. This leads to the image looking darker (theory)
    This is not the case. Indeed sending a signal it can't reproduce but it's switching to 1080p 24 10bit HDR 4:4:4.
    The regular Blu-Ray is 1080p and therefore much lower bandwidth, so the Epson is able to display the native signal correctly (theory)
    The regular Bluray is being upscaled to 4k but 3840x2160 8 bit 4:2:0 SDR.
    Xbox One S also sends 4k HDR bluRay signal in too high of a bandwidth for the Epson HDMI chipset to handle (theory)
    XBOX plays at 1080p but 8 bit sdr vs sammys 10bit hdr. just trying to find out how and why only playback is affected.
    Youtube 4k videos are natively 8-bit 4:2:0, so they display properly (theory)
    Other Players such as the Panasonic, Phillips, and hopefully Oppo have the ability to correctly export or convert higher bandwidth HDR 4K signals to a signal that the Epson can handle, so the image looks good (theory)
    In doing so, these players are throwing away Rec 2020 color (theory)
Before certain people jump on my back...I'm trying to gain an understanding of these things myself, so as I note, some of this is just theory on my part. I know that others on here know more than I do, so I'm open to corrections, but not to thick-headed insults or suggestions that I am wasting my time.

I'm legitimately curious as to how this all works. I'm also curious to know if we are losing anything with the signal that Panasonic and Phillips deliver, and if the Fury and Oppo will deliver a better picture by stripping HDR while maintaining Rec 2020 color.
see responses in your quote above. If it was the chipset, i would expect it to never play 3840x2160 vs only switch when doing playback. i am no expert but just seems like it's having issues negotiating the capabilities of the projector for the handshake that's required for playback. again guessing here. lol
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post #1518 of 18068 Old 10-06-2016, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BmanAVS View Post
How are any of you getting 4K playback with either the the X Box 1S or the Samsung UBD-K8500? I wish I would have read this thread prior to purchase! Whenever I play an Ultra HD BD disc it switches to 1080P vs. 2160. When I stop playing either source, both on Xbox 1s and Samsung, it goes back to 2160. I have tried bypassing my Denon AVR x4200W and going straight to the projector, as well as through it. I use the projector's info for the current resolution to display output setting. I'm new at this stuff, and not sure if what I should expect it to report as a display. Both will "Play" the Ultra HD but as far as resolution goes they are reporting the same output with UHD Disc as a standard bluray.



Any help would be greatly appreciated. Stunning images even in 1080p but its showing 1080p BT.0709 HDR2 or somethign like that. Not sure how to recognize I am getting HDR at the right resolution. Again....obviously I need help...been reading forum for about a week trying to understand and find my answer on my own.



Thanks!

Run through the initial video setup and make sure your HDMI cable supports the latest standard.

There is no special procedure to get 4K. It's HDR that can be tricky.
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post #1519 of 18068 Old 10-06-2016, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BmanAVS View Post
see responses in your quote above. If it was the chipset, i would expect it to never play 3840x2160 vs only switch when doing playback. i am no expert but just seems like it's having issues negotiating the capabilities of the projector for the handshake that's required for playback. again guessing here. lol
You might want to color your inline responses as it is very difficult to differentiate between your comments and Viche.
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post #1520 of 18068 Old 10-06-2016, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viche View Post
I'm legitimately curious as to how this all works. I'm also curious to know if we are losing anything with the signal that Panasonic and Phillips deliver, and if the Fury and Oppo will deliver a better picture by stripping HDR while maintaining Rec 2020 color.
Maybe I can shut this down once and for all. I recommend reading the entire link for a fantastic explanation of everything.

Source: http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/uhd-101-v2/

Here are the highlights:
Quote:
Blu-ray and UHD Blu-ray both store the video signal in the 4:2:0 format
So, at this time, there is no need for anything higher than that for blu ray or UHD. 10.2Gbps is perfectly acceptable.

Emphasis mine:
Quote:
This is important information, as we are seeing some sources such as the Samsung UHD Blu-Ray player that only support 4:4:4 or RGB at 10 bit, both of which require the whole video chain to be 18Gbps capable. They could easily have used 12 bit at 4:2:2:, which would have enabled compatibility with 10.2Gbps chipsets.
Quote:
As you can see it is possible that a 10.2Gbps chipset and cable infrastructure can support UHD Blu Ray, assuming the transfer medium is 4:2:2 at 12 bit.
Note, this is what we see as the output from the Phillips player.
Quote:
Note that there appears to be some confusion about exactly what is supported in the HDMI specification, even among manufacturers and industry participants.

This is essentially an output problem. The projector supports display of the content as it is stored on the disk. Samsung has chosen to use an output that requires 18Gbps. Whether that can be corrected via firmware or not is unknown. The sad thing here is that these conversions are required at all. I would prefer that the output device send the content to the projector without any chroma conversion. This makes all of the current players on the market less than ideal because the best place for this conversion to occur is once, on the display itself. All of these arguments are focused on the wrong subject. Call these manufacturers and complain that they don't output the disc's native format! Everyone call Congress!
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post #1521 of 18068 Old 10-06-2016, 05:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viche View Post
Here's my take:
...[INDENT][LIST][*]The HDMI chipset in the Epson can only handle 10 GBPS (fact)[*]Per the chart below, 4k24 10 bit 4:4:4 is beyond its capability (fact)[*]The Samsung is sending a signal that the Epson can't handle, so it is being converted/remapped to 4k24 8 bit 4:2:0. This leads to the image looking darker (theory)

Are you sure those devices are outputting [email protected] 8 bit 4:2:0? That bit depth and chroma combination aren't supported by the HDMI 2.0 standard.
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post #1522 of 18068 Old 10-06-2016, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c.kingsley View Post
Maybe I can shut this down once and for all. I recommend reading the entire link for a fantastic explanation of everything.

Source: http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/uhd-101-v2/

Here are the highlights:
So, at this time, there is no need for anything higher than that for blu ray or UHD. 10.2Gbps is perfectly acceptable.

Emphasis mine:
Note, this is what we see as the output from the Phillips player.

This is essentially an output problem. The projector supports display of the content as it is stored on the disk. Samsung has chosen to use an output that requires 18Gbps. Whether that can be corrected via firmware or not is unknown. The sad thing here is that these conversions are required at all. I would prefer that the output device send the content to the projector without any chroma conversion. This makes all of the current players on the market less than ideal because the best place for this conversion to occur is once, on the display itself. All of these arguments are focused on the wrong subject. Call these manufacturers and complain that they don't output the disc's native format! Everyone call Congress!
Thanks, I'll read the article and amend my list. I remember now that current 4k blu-rays are all encoded ar 4:2:0. Do you have any idea if that's 8, 10, or 12 bit color? Also does the expanded Rec 2020 color range on HDR disks mean a higher color bit rating?

The thing that confuses me is the fact that that chart shows that no 4k24 4:2:0 is supported by the HDMI spec. Doesn't that mean that any player has to do some alteration to the signal?
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post #1523 of 18068 Old 10-06-2016, 07:51 PM
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So just for trial I went and bought the philips uhd player. Same result with thier included cable, projector info reports 1080p 24hz. Message pops up stating connect to source that can play 4k. i was thinking of resetting the projector entirely. image is great at 1080p but just want to see what im supposed to through this thing...lol
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post #1524 of 18068 Old 10-06-2016, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BmanAVS View Post
So just for trial I went and bought the philips uhd player. Same result with thier included cable, projector info reports 1080p 24hz. Message pops up stating connect to source that can play 4k. i was thinking of resetting the projector entirely. image is great at 1080p but just want to see what im supposed to through this thing...lol
Not sure what is going on for you. I just took these, playing the Oblivion UHD on the Philips. My firmware is 105/103. These are taken with a camera phone and I still do not have a screen, this is shooting straight on a gray wall.

For those on the sidelines, don't listen to any of the detractors, naysayers or handwringers. This projector is outstanding.
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post #1525 of 18068 Old 10-06-2016, 08:18 PM
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i just figured it out. Pure stupidity. Hdmi cable plugged into hdmi 2 vs hdmi 1. Sorry guys! crazy though i still got a message saying projector doesnt support hdr but at least now i am getting 4k 12 bit 4:2:2 out using direct connect with philips. Now to figure what to keep lol.
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post #1526 of 18068 Old 10-06-2016, 08:21 PM
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How did you get 4K 12bit 4:2:2 with the Epson? I thought the Epson can't go that high in bandwidth with the HDMI or am I mistaken?


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post #1527 of 18068 Old 10-06-2016, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Viche View Post
Thanks, I'll read the article and amend my list. I remember now that current 4k blu-rays are all encoded ar 4:2:0. Do you have any idea if that's 8, 10, or 12 bit color? Also does the expanded Rec 2020 color range on HDR disks mean a higher color bit rating?

The thing that confuses me is the fact that that chart shows that no 4k24 4:2:0 is supported by the HDMI spec. Doesn't that mean that any player has to do some alteration to the signal?
Blu rays and UHD are all chroma 4:2:0. Blu rays are all 8 bit color. UHD is all 10bit currently though the spec potentially supports 12 bit AFAIK. The point is that 10.2Gbps is more than enough for 4k24p 4:2:2 at 12bit color. The current Phillips player outputs this signal. As with any new technology there are some incompatibilities which is to be expected. I imagine much of this will be resolved in time. However, we know that the Phillips works. We can almost guarantee that the Oppo will also work. It all looks great from my seat and, like many others who have previously posted, I'm about to go enjoy this fantastic machine instead of posting here.
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post #1528 of 18068 Old 10-06-2016, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by k3nnis View Post
How did you get 4K 12bit 4:2:2 with the Epson? I thought the Epson can't go that high in bandwidth with the HDMI or am I mistaken?


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You are mistaken. I didn't do anything, I plugged it in and turned it on.

I take it back, there was a setting on the Phillips for 4:4:4 at 60Hz or 4:2:0. I set it to 4:4:4 though that should have no effect on 24Hz playback mode.
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post #1529 of 18068 Old 10-06-2016, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by c.kingsley View Post
You are mistaken. I didn't do anything, I plugged it in and turned it on.

I take it back, there was a setting on the Phillips for 4:4:4 at 60Hz or 4:2:0. I set it to 4:4:4 though that should have no effect on 24Hz playback mode.


Ok thanks. Hope the oppo will be compatible


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post #1530 of 18068 Old 10-06-2016, 09:00 PM
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I found upper and lower black body casing for the 5040 for $150 shipped. Will give it a go!
I might be interested in such a casing since my ceiling is black. Would you mind sharing your source?

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