Official Epson 5040ub/6040ub owners thread - Page 526 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #15751 of 17660 Old 10-01-2018, 03:37 AM
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post #15752 of 17660 Old 10-01-2018, 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted by OrcusVaruna View Post
Here’s where I describe some different assumptions made when calibrating for HDR. Neither is more correct just a different approach to solve the issues of displaying hdr on projectors. Dave’s assumption when using SDR is basically that we are doing an HDR to SDR conversion anyway to display the content so why mess around with elaborate tone mapping upfront. The result is an image with an accurate but overall compressed image that looks a bit washed out imo especially on smaller screens where the compressed mid range tones aren’t aided and darkened by reduced light reaching each part of the image. Once again though Dave just uses a different approach to tackle the problems of displaying hdr on a projector. None of our approaches are better then the other imo just different.

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H
Thank you. I think I will use all 3 settings and see what I like best.

To start with, I just want to use the settings out of the box. Which picture mode is best for this?
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post #15753 of 17660 Old 10-01-2018, 05:20 AM
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Thank you. I think I will use all 3 settings and see what I like best.



To start with, I just want to use the settings out of the box. Which picture mode is best for this?


For SDR either natural or cinema for HDR probably digital cinema with a color space of auto and a gamma of +2


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post #15754 of 17660 Old 10-01-2018, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by OrcusVaruna View Post
For SDR either natural or cinema for HDR probably digital cinema with a color space of auto and a gamma of +2


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Thank you!
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post #15755 of 17660 Old 10-01-2018, 07:32 AM
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Thank you!
If you happen to have an Apple TV 4K, the app TestCardProHD has HDR test cards to help you do do some HDR settings (HD as well). The app costs less than $10.

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post #15756 of 17660 Old 10-01-2018, 11:15 AM
 
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Official Epson 5040ub/6040ub owners thread

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Originally Posted by xpl0sive View Post
Thanks for the advice man. I've saved your settings, Rob's and Harpervisions in a file so I can try all 3 when I set up my projector. What is different with your settings compared to Harpervision?



Side note, but do you know of any UHD calibration discs available? I remember when I bought my last TV, I didn't calibrate it as the cinema mode was actually pretty good, I just used a calibration disc to adjust the brightness and contrast for the room.

The best hands down for money are the Ryan Masciola Patterns which you can download to put on a flash drive or get a UHD Blu-ray disc. I recommend the download because you get free updates.

http://diversifiedvideosolutions.com



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Originally Posted by OrcusVaruna View Post
Here’s where I describe some different assumptions made when calibrating for HDR. Neither is more correct just a different approach to solve the issues of displaying hdr on projectors. Dave’s assumption when using SDR is basically that we are doing an HDR to SDR conversion anyway to display the content so why mess around with elaborate tone mapping upfront. The result is an image with an accurate but overall compressed image that looks a bit washed out imo especially on smaller screens where the compressed mid range tones aren’t aided and darkened by reduced light reaching each part of the image. Once again though Dave just uses a different approach to tackle the problems of displaying hdr on a projector. None of our approaches are better then the other imo just different.

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H

I thought I mentioned this before, but if your end result with my settings appear “compressed and washed out”, then you have something setup wrong. Those two verbs are the opposite of what I recall experiencing with my settings on the 5040UBs I’ve done, especially the “washed out” part!



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ok, this is confusing. So are Rob's settings incorrect then since he used Natural? should I not be using anyone's settings in here, including Harpervision?



If so, what's the best factory picture setting to use for both HDR and non-HDR?

I thought I used Digital Cinema?
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post #15757 of 17660 Old 10-01-2018, 11:56 AM
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Thank you!
Room+screen+personal preferences lead to the settings that work best for you. The amount of ambient light you have (some, none), what type of screen you have and its gain, and what you like to see, will determine the best settings. For me, I prefer Digital Cinema and I like Harpervision. Others lean towards Natural. There's no settings panacea.

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post #15758 of 17660 Old 10-01-2018, 01:31 PM
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Room+screen+personal preferences lead to the settings that work best for you. The amount of ambient light you have (some, none), what type of screen you have and its gain, and what you like to see, will determine the best settings. For me, I prefer Digital Cinema and I like Harpervision. Others lean towards Natural. There's no settings panacea.

As with most things in this hobby, the environment, equipment, and most importantly personal tastes and preferences are the factors that determine what is "right/desirable" for each of us. In terms of audio, our ears will be the final judge and with video...our eyes...heck, some of us have some hearing deficiencies and/or are to some extent color blind. It is appreciative that members have contributed time and effort to get many of us to a good starting point but I'm in agreement that there is no panacea or single holy grail.
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post #15759 of 17660 Old 10-01-2018, 03:33 PM
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If you happen to have an Apple TV 4K, the app TestCardProHD has HDR test cards to help you do do some HDR settings (HD as well). The app costs less than $10.
No Apple TV I'm afraid.

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Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
The best hands down for money are the Ryan Masciola Patterns which you can download to put on a flash drive or get a UHD Blu-ray disc. I recommend the download because you get free updates.

http://diversifiedvideosolutions.com
Thank you Dave, actually found this yesterday. Going to purchase.

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I thought I used Digital Cinema?
Yeah you did, was responding to someone else's comments about not using other people's settings. It's because you use Digital Cinema that I wanted to try yours.

Side note, but do you have the latest version of your settings?

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Room+screen+personal preferences lead to the settings that work best for you. The amount of ambient light you have (some, none), what type of screen you have and its gain, and what you like to see, will determine the best settings. For me, I prefer Digital Cinema and I like Harpervision. Others lean towards Natural. There's no settings panacea.
Thanks for the advice. I'll have to try them all out, run the test patterns and see what I like best.
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post #15760 of 17660 Old 10-02-2018, 07:38 AM
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It is appreciative that members have contributed time and effort to get many of us to a good starting point but I'm in agreement that there is no panacea or single holy grail.
Couldn't agree more.

I've tried almost all of the settings users have provided throughout this thread and each have their merits. For me, Rob and Orcus' settings are what have won out, albeit with some minor tweaks of my own, but I don't think any of the ones I've tried have been bad, just different and/or less preferable to me personally.

I now have all 10 memory slots loaded and have come to know which will work best with what content. It means I now sit back and watch everything knowing that I'm getting the best out of my projector, which makes me hugely grateful to all who've contributed their settings and knowledge here.
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post #15761 of 17660 Old 10-02-2018, 09:25 AM
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Does anyone know of a good video that explains all this that just sounds like a bunch of jargon to me? I want to learn about it cause I know nothing. Things like 8 bit, 10 bit, gamma, chroma, bt.709 bt.2020 all that stuff. Lol
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post #15762 of 17660 Old 10-02-2018, 10:22 AM
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Official Epson 5040ub/6040ub owners thread

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Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
I thought I mentioned this before, but if your end result with my settings appear “compressed and washed out”, then you have something setup wrong. Those two verbs are the opposite of what I recall experiencing with my settings on the 5040UBs I’ve done, especially the “washed out” part!

Dave,

You always parse out exactly what I am not trying to convey in my posts and when I reread it sure sounds like I was saying they were compressed and washed out . What I was attempting to say was the base of my settings is that I use autobright as a starting point for tone mapping and you use SDR. This leads to an image compared to mine that raises (adds more tone steps in this part of the image) the mid range and makes the image a bit washed out appearing in comparison. Where my settings result in an artificially contrasty looking image because autobright widens the baseline tone mapping leaving few steps in the mid range creating the overall punchy appearance of the image. In the end I was just trying to highlight that neither settings are better or worse just different because we took different approaches to solving the problem of displaying hdr on an Sdr machine.

Cheers,

Anthony


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post #15763 of 17660 Old 10-02-2018, 03:09 PM
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How do I save custom settings? Is that possible? Like if I want to save different peoples settings on here and switch back and forth between them quickly to see what I like better
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post #15764 of 17660 Old 10-02-2018, 03:53 PM
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First time poster... ridiculously long time lurker. I just wanted to thank everyone on here who spent hours calibrating these projectors and then sharing their findings. I’m using several of the settings posted here for HDR and SDR. So THANK YOU! the results are awesome.

I’ve tried going through this very very long thread but couldn’t find any settings for 3D movies. Are there any... If so could you kindly point the way?

Thanks!
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post #15765 of 17660 Old 10-02-2018, 04:13 PM
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How do I save custom settings? Is that possible? Like if I want to save different peoples settings on here and switch back and forth between them quickly to see what I like better
You can save up to ten custom settings. Just go to the Menu, then Settings, go to Save Memory, then select a memory position.
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post #15766 of 17660 Old 10-02-2018, 05:55 PM
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First time poster... ridiculously long time lurker. I just wanted to thank everyone on here who spent hours calibrating these projectors and then sharing their findings. I’m using several of the settings posted here for HDR and SDR. So THANK YOU! the results are awesome.

I’ve tried going through this very very long thread but couldn’t find any settings for 3D movies. Are there any... If so could you kindly point the way?

Thanks!

Hey T-Man, welcome aboard. I use 2 settings for 3D, 3D Dynamic for color and 3D Cinema for B & W. I'll post those setting in the next few days.


My HT is pitch dark, so the settings I will post is what I like.
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post #15767 of 17660 Old 10-02-2018, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by OrcusVaruna View Post
For SDR either natural or cinema for HDR probably digital cinema with a color space of auto and a gamma of +2


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You suggest digital cinema for HDR? I thought you said:

“Finally, when you actually calibrate your projector with a meter you realize hat you actually don’t loose much by using natural over digital cinema and the additional light output you gain FAR outweighs a virtually imperceptible increase in color.”
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post #15768 of 17660 Old 10-02-2018, 08:08 PM
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I might get blasted for this, but has anyone spent any time calibrating for high ambient light? We do football every Sunday in my man cave and have the lights on in the room. If not, anyone have any general reccomendation guidelines?
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post #15769 of 17660 Old 10-02-2018, 08:38 PM
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I might get blasted for this, but has anyone spent any time calibrating for high ambient light? We do football every Sunday in my man cave and have the lights on in the room. If not, anyone have any general reccomendation guidelines?

I would like to blast you but I will retain my cool.



That is the biggest oxymoron on the planet
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post #15770 of 17660 Old 10-02-2018, 08:50 PM
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For anyone that has spent time calibrating the 5040 with the Panny 820 to utilize the tone mapping feature, would you mind posting your settings? Trying to figure out if I should scrap the custom gamma curve settings and just play with the defaults. Also interested in whether those of you who have messed around with the 820 have gone to the digital cinema mode since my understanding with the tone mapping is you want to convert to SDR 2020. So if you’ve settled on a Natural or Bright Cinema setting prior to the 820 due to HDR being to dark, are you now seeing the digital cinema mode as a better picture since it covers most of the P3 gamut?


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post #15771 of 17660 Old 10-02-2018, 10:23 PM
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For anyone that has spent time calibrating the 5040 with the Panny 820 to utilize the tone mapping feature, would you mind posting your settings? Trying to figure out if I should scrap the custom gamma curve settings and just play with the defaults. Also interested in whether those of you who have messed around with the 820 have gone to the digital cinema mode since my understanding with the tone mapping is you want to convert to SDR 2020. So if you’ve settled on a Natural or Bright Cinema setting prior to the 820 due to HDR being to dark, are you now seeing the digital cinema mode as a better picture since it covers most of the P3 gamut?
We don't have a proper Gamma 2.4 for SDR 2020, yet. It's not trivial on the Epson like it is on some other brands of projectors.

In the meantime, I've been using HarperVision with the 820 set to Middle Luminance which tone maps to 1000 nits. Dave has stated that HarperVision clips around 1100 nits so this gets you very close. You can up the dynamic range slider a tick or two if you want to raise the brightness of the picture a bit more without sacrificing much.
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post #15772 of 17660 Old 10-03-2018, 02:50 AM
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You suggest digital cinema for HDR? I thought you said:



“Finally, when you actually calibrate your projector with a meter you realize hat you actually don’t loose much by using natural over digital cinema and the additional light output you gain FAR outweighs a virtually imperceptible increase in color.”

He was specifically asking out of the box settings with no custom adjustment or settings.


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post #15773 of 17660 Old 10-03-2018, 02:57 AM
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We don't have a proper Gamma 2.4 for SDR 2020, yet. It's not trivial on the Epson like it is on some other brands of projectors.



In the meantime, I've been using HarperVision with the 820 set to Middle Luminance which tone maps to 1000 nits. Dave has stated that HarperVision clips around 1100 nits so this gets you very close. You can up the dynamic range slider a tick or two if you want to raise the brightness of the picture a bit more without sacrificing much.


I still think I would choose more light over a bit more coverage of p3 but I will have to see once I pick up the player. But I’m very happy with my current settings handling of hdr to Sdr conversion I more want the player to assist with displaying these stupid paramount and wb discs mastered at 4000 nits.


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post #15774 of 17660 Old 10-03-2018, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by OrcusVaruna View Post
He was specifically asking out of the box settings with no custom adjustment or settings.


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Why would he not want more contrast and light (vs wider color range) with out of the box settings? I’m not understanding why your custom settings benefit from more contrast, but out of the box settings apparently don’t as much.
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post #15775 of 17660 Old 10-03-2018, 04:11 AM
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Why would he not want more contrast and light (vs wider color range) with out of the box settings? I’m not understanding why your custom settings benefit from more contrast, but out of the box settings apparently don’t as much.


Your perverting my opinions post calibration and applying them to my recommendations to someone who wants to take the projector out of the box press as few buttons as possible and play a hdr with a respectable image. Precalibration or pre one entering of any settings posted here, digital cinema is the better option for displaying hdr content. Baseline precalibration color rendering of wcg material is awful using natural. Post calibration it’s excellent but pre not so much. If you ever pick up a meter and attempt to calibrate on your own you will understand why I am recommending digital cinema in this case. Obviously he would be better served by using harpervision with digital cinema or mine or robs settings with natural. But he did ask that question...


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post #15776 of 17660 Old 10-03-2018, 04:15 AM
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Official Epson 5040ub/6040ub owners thread

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Originally Posted by ClayM325 View Post
I might get blasted for this, but has anyone spent any time calibrating for high ambient light? We do football every Sunday in my man cave and have the lights on in the room. If not, anyone have any general reccomendation guidelines?


Yes I have I’ll pull my bright room sports settings tonight and post them up for you. And why would you get blasted this projector is excellent for battling lots of light as it’s a proverbial light cannon of a projector?


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post #15777 of 17660 Old 10-03-2018, 04:37 AM
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Yes I have I’ll pull my bright room sports settings tonight and post them up for you. And why would you get blasted this projector is excellent for battling lots of light as it’s a proverbial light cannon of a projector?


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@OrcusVaruna I’m use your settings and they look great! Thank you!

Btw. You posted some gamma settings a while back 0,15,24,29,32,31,32,9 saying you found these to be an improvement but your last settings seem to have abandoned them. Any reason for this or do you still use these for some cases?

Also I too have a bright ambient room (white walls and ceiling). Are there any mods we need to make to harpervision or your settings? Obviously I am continuously tweaking but it’s nice to get your opinion i.e. someone with more experience and knowledge in the matter.


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post #15778 of 17660 Old 10-03-2018, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClayM325 View Post
I might get blasted for this, but has anyone spent any time calibrating for high ambient light? We do football every Sunday in my man cave and have the lights on in the room. If not, anyone have any general reccomendation guidelines?


Yes I have I’ll pull my bright room sports settings tonight and post them up for you. And why would you get blasted this projector is excellent for battling lots of light as it’s a proverbial light cannon of a projector?


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I just figured that because I was running a projector with lights on. In a previous post someone already had to bite their tongue about it. 😂 But thanks in advance I really appreciate it! I can't wait to get them in and tried out this Sunday!
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post #15779 of 17660 Old 10-03-2018, 04:59 AM
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I just figured that because I was running a projector with lights on. In a previous post someone already had to bite their tongue about it. 😂 But thanks in advance I really appreciate it! I can't wait to get them in and tried out this Sunday!


Shockingly some plebeians like myself don’t have a million$ home with a dedicated movie theater or even more shockingly some actually don’t want a room like that and would prefer to view this projector in a family room with lights on so everyone can enjoy . Don’t worry I got our backs


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post #15780 of 17660 Old 10-03-2018, 05:15 AM
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Official Epson 5040ub/6040ub owners thread

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Originally Posted by T-MAN_ View Post
@OrcusVaruna I’m use your settings and they look great! Thank you!

Btw. You posted some gamma settings a while back 0,15,24,29,32,31,32,9 saying you found these to be an improvement but your last settings seem to have abandoned them. Any reason for this or do you still use these for some cases?

Also I too have a bright ambient room (white walls and ceiling). Are there any mods we need to make to harpervision or your settings? Obviously I am continuously tweaking but it’s nice to get your opinion i.e. someone with more experience and knowledge in the matter.


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I have gone back and forth on this a lot and decided that the look of that gamma kind of defeats the purpose of using autobright for me as it removes some of the punchiness of the image. If I want the look it provides I’ll use a variation of robs settings or harpervison. As for bright rooms my settings were developed in my white on white living room so no I would not recommend any changes for your environment. For hapervision you might mess with some of the gamma points 3,4,5 to adjust for some contrast issues we encounter in bright rooms.


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