Official Epson 5040ub/6040ub owners thread - Page 538 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #16111 of 18063 Old 11-27-2018, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Easyenough View Post
Hoping for a tip. Multi-multi year AVS lurker (like 10 years) and hugely grateful to the Harpers and many others for all I've learned. Just re-read 150 pages of 5040 posts and couldn't find an answer. I know this is a 5040 thread, not an AVR thread, but the question is really just about feeding the Epson.

I need a new AV Receiver. I only watch movies, mostly disc, some streaming. No TV, no games. I have the 5040UB projecting on a 120" elite screen screen (10 years old so don't remember model) a Sony UBP-X700 and an Onkyo TX SR507 that doesn't pass through 4K and a 5.1 surround setup. I want to replace the receiver for less than $700 in the next couple days while the sales are on. This is only to feed the 5040 (and get matching sound to speakers). Would love to hear what you all love and what you all hate about AVRs.

I'm thinking that ideally the Blu-ray player converts/outputs the 24hz that the 5040 wants regardless of source (documentation seems to say it can), and that the AVR just needs to be able to pass through. But is another alternative to get an AVR that can convert/process the signal? I've read six AVR manuals trying to find options to convert the signal and haven't seen anything detailed about what will be output. Could be I'm accessing the wrong manuals.

Some candidate AVRs: Yamaha TSR-7850, Onkyo TX-NR686, Sony STR-DN1080, and Denon AVR-X3400H.

Thank you for any tips!
I am currently using the 6040ub with a Sony x800 and the Denon AVR-x3400H. I have yet to encounter a situation where 4K HDR was not passed to the 6040ub in a way that it can use it. However, I have not tried 4k60p HDR gaming. I imagine that it will not work. The Denon will pass the signals just fine but it will not convert 4k60p HDR to 4k24p HDR.

To clarify, the following have worked just fine (these are all that I have used/tested):

1. 4k60 SDR on youtube (x800 as the player)
2. 1080p HDR via PS4
3. 4k24 HDR UHD Bluray (x800)
4. 4k24 SDR using X800 to play video files directly (USB drive)
5. 4k24 SDR via Amazon Prime (x800; I don't think that HDR content is available using this device, or at least it wasn't when I last tried it)
6. 4k24 HDR via Netflix (x800)

I have also disabled all video scaling in the AVR-X3400H.

Epson 6040ub
Denon AVR-X3400H + Mirage OMD-5 surrounds
Home-made Hybrid PCB Electrostatic Floorstanding L+R Speakers (with built-in DSP + amps)
Home-made sub with 15" Ultimax woofer, Dayton SA1000 Amp
Sony PS4, Sony UBP-X800, Panasonic DP-UB820

Last edited by jt7272; 11-27-2018 at 07:36 AM.
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post #16112 of 18063 Old 11-27-2018, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidinGA View Post
I have the Epson 4000, and I know this is the 5040 thread, but since it gets more activity and the models are similar enough I'll ask it here...

I have an irritating red/purple push for skin tones ONLY when viewing sdr material. Are there any basic pointers you can offer to dial this back without creating other issues? I've tried the color temp and skin tone options and they don't really get it done (I have to max out the slider and then I have way too much yellow happening). It doesn't seem to matter which mode I'm using either; I generally use digital cinema.

With hdr material I seem to have zero issues, Fwiw.

What tools do you use to set proper color balance overall that would help with skin tones? I had originally calibrated with the old avs sdr toolkit for just basic contrast and brightness.

Thanks

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What mode are you using natural, cinema or bright cinema? Also what are your current settings for the mode you are using including cms and gamma?


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post #16113 of 18063 Old 11-27-2018, 10:20 AM
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Horizontal Keystone

After 3 power supply failures I am now on my 4th projector. The customer service rep assured me that the power supply issue has been fixed which is promising but with this last projector I am seeing significant horizontal keystoning. The projector is about as centered as it can be left-to-right but the image's left edge is 52" tall while the right is 54". This level of discrepancy is quite noticeable, especially with any onscreen graphics or menus.

Has anyone else seen and/or corrected horizontal keystoning with the 5040UB?
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post #16114 of 18063 Old 11-27-2018, 11:35 AM
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Hi guys,

I've tried to follow the thread a little bit and get some numbers.
I have been left not really knowing what to do lol.

Has anyone calibrated for Rec2020 with HDR? I attempted to just play around with it and the reds man. The reds are way over the top. I don't have any expensive machinery but I was just playing around with the property values and couldn't get it to really look good last night.

Cheers,
Gavin


Subwoofers: 2x JTR Captivator 2400ULF Speakers: 4x PSA MT-110, 1x PSA MTM-210C, 4x Klipsch RP-500SA
Receiver: Denon x4400h Projector: Epson 5040UB
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post #16115 of 18063 Old 11-27-2018, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrohlf View Post
After 3 power supply failures I am now on my 4th projector. The customer service rep assured me that the power supply issue has been fixed which is promising but with this last projector I am seeing significant horizontal keystoning. The projector is about as centered as it can be left-to-right but the image's left edge is 52" tall while the right is 54". This level of discrepancy is quite noticeable, especially with any onscreen graphics or menus.

Has anyone else seen and/or corrected horizontal keystoning with the 5040UB?
I had it, I fixed it by turned the projector a little bit to one side and then shifting the lens. I wasn't really center though.

Cheers,
Gavin


Subwoofers: 2x JTR Captivator 2400ULF Speakers: 4x PSA MT-110, 1x PSA MTM-210C, 4x Klipsch RP-500SA
Receiver: Denon x4400h Projector: Epson 5040UB
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post #16116 of 18063 Old 11-27-2018, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrcusVaruna View Post
What mode are you using natural, cinema or bright cinema? Also what are your current settings for the mode you are using including cms and gamma?


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I'll have to get the details at home, but I'm pretty close to how it came stock.

Mainly cinema or bright cinema for sdr.

I've not adjusted cms or gamma.

--------------------------------------------------
Source: HTPC w/madVR, Video: Epson 5040, 150" 16:9, Audio: Onkyo RZ 830 avr, 5.1.4 Atmos setup. 5 speaker Energy C Series: L/R C300's, C C-C100, SR/SL C50's, 4 in-ceiling Micca R-8c. Subwoofer: MiniMarty um18 w/NX3000D.
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post #16117 of 18063 Old 11-27-2018, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by westbergjoakim View Post
Can someone tell me which models of HDFury that will work to get HDR 60Hz in Netflix and other apps like that? I have seen Integral and Linker been mentioned before. Are these two the only ones? Thanks!

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I use a Linker and it works great. I cannot speak for the integral though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xpl0sive View Post
Thanks! reason I ask is that I generally have SDR dynamic mode turned on as I use Harpervision settings, however I don't like Harpervision for games so when playing a HDR game I would need to switch it up.

What's the best colour mode to use for gaming? Bright Cinema or Natural?
Yes, so in your case you will have a few extra button presses. I believe you can customize the user button on the remote. Maybe you can program that as a hot key to switch between SDR mode and HDR mode.

As far as gaming and HDR, or movie watching. My viewing settings are a bit out of the norm compared to alot of the guys on the forum. I have tried Harpervision and my picture in gaming looked a bit washed out/gray. (it was all setup correctly). I ended up going with my own calibration which I am happy with using Auto Bright.

I actually use Bright Cinema for everything. Regardless if it is gaming, 4k HDR movies, or SDR cable TV viewing. I also only use ECO bulb mode.

I have a 100% light controlled room with black walls and ceilings and on ECO I feel it is plenty bright. I also run a smaller screen then most (100") and have a bit of a short throw distance which may attribute to why I can get it bright enough in ECO vs others.

If you are going to use Harpervision for movies and regular HDR mode for gaming, just setup another preset and label it appropriately and like I said, you may be able to set it to the USER key to change it faster.
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post #16118 of 18063 Old 11-27-2018, 06:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Juiced46 View Post
........As far as gaming and HDR, or movie watching. My viewing settings are a bit out of the norm compared to alot of the guys on the forum. I have tried Harpervision and my picture in gaming looked a bit washed out/gray. (it was all setup correctly)........

I know you’re saying that “it was all setup correctly”, but if you were sending a full HDR source signal and using my settings, then I can’t imagine the resultant picture could be described as ”a bit washed out/gray”. Washed out and gray are things I have never seen in regards to my settings. Something must be off, Just sayin’.
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post #16119 of 18063 Old 11-27-2018, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
I know you’re saying that “it was all setup correctly”, but if you were sending a full HDR source signal and using my settings, then I can’t imagine the resultant picture could be described as ”a bit washed out/gray”. Washed out and gray are things I have never seen in regards to my settings. Something must be off, Just sayin’.
Dave, trust me it was setup correctly. I mean no disrespect at all to your settings. I believe I actually may have PMed you about this some time ago also. I have no explanation why. Its ONLY when gaming through my Xbox One X. It did it with one Xbox One S also.

The projector is indeed getting an HDR Rec2020 signal for sure. Its 4:2:2. I am manually setting it to SDR on the projector as well as your instructions say and I am using all of your settings. I have checked it so many times, I do not know why it looks like this. Its hard to explain it. If I get time I will put all the settings back in and try it and take some pics to show you (lost all my settings when I got a replacement unit)
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post #16120 of 18063 Old 11-27-2018, 07:34 PM
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Noted with thanks

Man see things as they are n say why. I dream of things that never were, n say why not ....... A Perfect PROJECTOR
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post #16121 of 18063 Old 11-27-2018, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by OrcusVaruna View Post
That washing out of the image with the lights on is exactly why I am such a proponent of ALR screens for most people, even those with a dedicated theater. Just gives you so much more flexibility regarding the viewing environment. But I digress... I have bright room settings and dark room settings for both HDR and SDR and use them for both gaming and movie viewing, I don’t have specific gaming settings per say. For HDR I use Natural (bright room, Auto Bright) and Digital Cinema (Dark Room, Auto Bright). For SDR I use Bright Cinema in a bright room and Cinema for dark room viewing. Using Bright Cinema over Natural for ambient light viewing with SDR has more to do with ease of programming with harmony then anything else as accessing the memory settings is a hit and miss endeavor with harmony and Natural’s starting points for an HDR calibration is far better then Bright Cinema. Don’t let Natural’s color temperature settings fool you it is a far more neutral out of the box setting then Bright Cinema for HDR calibrating. Also you can easily calibrate out Bright Cinema’s starting inaccuracies with SDR but it’s MUCH more difficult to do the same with HDR calibrations. Hope that all makes sense lol


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Thanks. Something I didn't really consider when I bought my screen since it was a dedicated room. At the time I wasn't even aware you could get a screen that would produce such an awesome image with this projector in ambient light.

What I do is just game in here, but when I'm not up for gaming in a dark room I go play in the living room on the TV. Not the same experience but I'm ok with it.
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post #16122 of 18063 Old 11-27-2018, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
It sounds to me like gakbw is sending an SDR and/or HDR Rec709 color signal, but nielvm’s settings are for BT2020/DCI-P3 so they look overblown to gakbw.
Hi Dave,

what does it mean "Rec709 color signal, but nielvm’s settings are for BT2020/DCI-P3 " I don't know this terminology! these options are available in settings options? Please explain in detail! Thanks in advance.
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post #16123 of 18063 Old 11-27-2018, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
I know you’re saying that “it was all setup correctly”, but if you were sending a full HDR source signal and using my settings, then I can’t imagine the resultant picture could be described as ”a bit washed out/gray”. Washed out and gray are things I have never seen in regards to my settings. Something must be off, Just sayin’.
Dave, did you test your settings with games? Are games mastered the same as UHD discs as far as colour goes? Could be why people aren't seeing the same wow factor as they do with movies.
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post #16124 of 18063 Old 11-27-2018, 10:10 PM
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I asked this question in the Panasonic UB820 thread but I'll ask here as well. Is there anyone who upgraded from the UB900 to UB820 and if so, was it worth the upgrade? or was it incremental at best? I want to buy this player, but not if there is not much improvement over the 900.
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post #16125 of 18063 Old 11-28-2018, 08:33 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Juiced46 View Post
Dave, trust me it was setup correctly. I mean no disrespect at all to your settings. I believe I actually may have PMed you about this some time ago also. I have no explanation why. Its ONLY when gaming through my Xbox One X. It did it with one Xbox One S also.



The projector is indeed getting an HDR Rec2020 signal for sure. Its 4:2:2. I am manually setting it to SDR on the projector as well as your instructions say and I am using all of your settings. I have checked it so many times, I do not know why it looks like this. Its hard to explain it. If I get time I will put all the settings back in and try it and take some pics to show you (lost all my settings when I got a replacement unit)

I think the XBox outputs a PC style signal which is RGBHV at 0-255 levels (Full Range), so that could be why it looks washed out and grey. That will happen when you use Full Range levels but the source is mastered at Limited Range. Maybe his accounts for the differences?


Quote:
Originally Posted by xpl0sive View Post
Dave, did you test your settings with games? Are games mastered the same as UHD discs as far as colour goes? Could be why people aren't seeing the same wow factor as they do with movies.

No I didn’t test with games. Could be.

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Originally Posted by gakbw View Post
Hi Dave,



what does it mean "Rec709 color signal, but nielvm’s settings are for BT2020/DCI-P3 " I don't know this terminology! these options are available in settings options? Please explain in detail! Thanks in advance.

Those are two differing color gamuts. Rec709 is the one used by HD sources like Standard Blu-rays and HD cable and satellite. BT2020 is the newer wider color gamut that was approved by the UHDA (and others) for sources like UHD Blu-rays and streaming that use wider color gamuts to get more colors available to be displayed to the viewer. It uses DCI P3 within the BT2020 color gamut container since it fits within its boundaries and no real display devices can do Full BT2020 yet. The DCI P3 gamut is mapped to the BT2020 coordinates for things like UHD Blurays. DCI P3 is the color standard/gamut adopted by Digital Cinemas for theatrical presentations.

Wikipedia and Google are your friend.
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post #16126 of 18063 Old 11-28-2018, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
I think the XBox outputs a PC style signal which is RGBHV at 0-255 levels (Full Range), so that could be why it looks washed out and grey. That will happen when you use Full Range levels but the source is mastered at Limited Range. Maybe his accounts for the differences?





No I didn’t test with games. Could be.




Those are two differing color gamuts. Rec709 is the one used by HD sources like Standard Blu-rays and HD cable and satellite. BT2020 is the newer wider color gamut that was approved by the UHDA (and others) for sources like UHD Blu-rays and streaming that use wider color gamuts to get more colors available to be displayed to the viewer. It uses DCI P3 within the BT2020 color gamut container since it fits within its boundaries and no real display devices can do Full BT2020 yet. The DCI P3 gamut is mapped to the BT2020 coordinates for things like UHD Blurays. DCI P3 is the color standard/gamut adopted by Digital Cinemas for theatrical presentations.

Wikipedia and Google are your friend.
Thanks Dave! But you are our Wikipedia ! Last thing, do we have both options available in projector settings to choose either one? I mean where I can see it in Epson 6040ub these options to select.
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post #16127 of 18063 Old 11-28-2018, 06:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by gakbw View Post
Thanks Dave! But you are our Wikipedia ! Last thing, do we have both options available in projector settings to choose either one? I mean where I can see it in Epson 6040ub these options to select.


Probably. I haven’t had one in a while so you’d have to check the manual and menus or ask someone here who has one and knows.
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post #16128 of 18063 Old 11-29-2018, 05:41 AM
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I took some time to compare my "harpervision" settings with the suggested digital cinema setting with saturation at 55.
Apart from color accuracy (pics are a tad too warm compared to the real image), the biggest gain is found in the details in the lowest regions.

With HDR and a standard setting (cinema or digital cinema with HDR mode 1) I always found it so hard to see details in the lowest regions. They are there, it doesn't clip, but you almost have to pauze the image to be able to see them.

Warning: picture bomb...
First image is with "harpervision" settings, second is digital cinema with saturation at 55 and HDR mode 1.

If anyone feels like making a comparison slider for each pic set, be my guest























































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post #16129 of 18063 Old 11-29-2018, 08:01 AM
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For me a comparison slider for each pic set is not necessary.

It is very simple.

Harpervision all the way
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post #16130 of 18063 Old 11-29-2018, 10:16 AM
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Hi, new to the forum. Just connected the 5040ub after being boxed for 11 months b/c I was still working on the HT room. Looked great out of the box, update the FW and had this red color throughout half of the screen that came on and off intermittently--called Epson and they had shipped a refurbed 5040ub overnight. All is good.
Now hooked up the PJ, receiver and XBOX X and noticed that using an active HDMI (from Monoprice/Prime Cables) at 50 ft run the picture on XBOX X intermittently goes on and off. This does not happen with the a non active HDMI cable when plugged into the HDMI 1 or 2 port of PJ--I've narrowed it down to a problem with the active HDMI and I have used it in either direction just to test (it is a unilateral cable only) and the same thing happens. What seems to work is when I extend the active HDMI with an HDMI coupler and plugged into a regular HDMI cable into the receiver to extend the length, the PJ seems to work just fine. What is happening here and should I just pull out the active HDMI and run a regular 2.0 HDMI cable from PJ to receiver? I got the active cable originally b/c of the longer run I had to install which also costs significantly more. Anyone else encounter this.
Thanks--this forum is great!
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post #16131 of 18063 Old 11-29-2018, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xpl0sive View Post
I asked this question in the Panasonic UB820 thread but I'll ask here as well. Is there anyone who upgraded from the UB900 to UB820 and if so, was it worth the upgrade? or was it incremental at best? I want to buy this player, but not if there is not much improvement over the 900.
Hoping someone can answer this for me. Or perhaps another question for Dave, is there any benefit upgrading to this player if I am running Harpervision settings? Am I right in assuming that the 'HDR Oprimizer' built into this player is essentially doing what your Harpervision settings were designed to do?
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post #16132 of 18063 Old 11-29-2018, 10:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by xpl0sive View Post
Hoping someone can answer this for me. Or perhaps another question for Dave, is there any benefit upgrading to this player if I am running Harpervision settings? Am I right in assuming that the 'HDR Oprimizer' built into this player is essentially doing what your Harpervision settings were designed to do?

No because the benefit of this player is it’s dynamic HDR to SDR tone mapping and my settings are based on the projector receiving an HDR signal, not an SDR one. Now the question would be if the tone mapping of the 820 results in a better image than my HarperVision settings do. I can’t answer that because I don’t have a 5040 anymore. Maybe someone else that has one with an 820 can test it?

The HDR Optimizer is dynamic and bases it’s conversion on each title’s reported nits levels. My HarperVision is static and based on about a 1200 nit mastered curve.

What I can tell you is that the HarperVision settings I have for the BenQ LK970 seem to work better overall than when I tried the 820’s tone mapping, but to be honest I haven’t done extensive testing in that mode yet because I had to ship it out. I’m hoping to do so when the next one arrives.
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post #16133 of 18063 Old 11-29-2018, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Harper View Post
No because the benefit of this player is it’s dynamic HDR to SDR tone mapping and my settings are based on the projector receiving an HDR signal, not an SDR one. Now the question would be if the tone mapping of the 820 results in a better image than my HarperVision settings do. I can’t answer that because I don’t have a 5040 anymore. Maybe someone else that has one with an 820 can test it?

The HDR Optimizer is dynamic and bases it’s conversion on each title’s reported nits levels. My HarperVision is static and based on about a 1200 nit mastered curve.

What I can tell you is that the HarperVision settings I have for the BenQ LK970 seem to work better overall than when I tried the 820’s tone mapping, but to be honest I haven’t done extensive testing in that mode yet because I had to ship it out. I’m hoping to do so when the next one arrives.
Wouldn't it be better to leave the player in HDR mode and use the optimizer? Or does it produce a better picture when converting to SDR?
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post #16134 of 18063 Old 11-30-2018, 07:41 AM
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Wouldn't it be better to leave the player in HDR mode and use the optimizer? Or does it produce a better picture when converting to SDR?
4040 owner here. I can tell you that using the 820 set to SDR/2020 and the projector set to Digital Cinema with gamma at 2 yields a very good picture. I use Harpervision when streaming from Apple TV 4K which is also very good, but the image from the disc is excellent so I can imagine it would be even better on the 5040.

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post #16135 of 18063 Old 11-30-2018, 08:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by xpl0sive View Post
Wouldn't it be better to leave the player in HDR mode and use the optimizer? Or does it produce a better picture when converting to SDR?

Yes leaving it in HDR and using the Optimizer should give you an advantage over the UB900 without it.
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post #16136 of 18063 Old 11-30-2018, 04:56 PM
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Just got a new Epson 5040 and started playing a BluRay this evening using an Xbox One X (incredibles 2) and I got some terrible “pixelation” or “artifacts” not sure the correct terminology but hoping someone can help me identify the issue. I tried the Blu-ray On an old Sony Blu-ray player and had no issues. I’m attaching an image of an example what we saw.

Btw. I have the newest Epson firmware installed.

I’m wondering if it’s an issue with the Xbox one X which is new or possibly an hdmi cable? Using the hdmi cable that came with the Xbox into an Onkyo receiver. The Blu-ray player also goes Into the same Onkyo receiver to the Epson.
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post #16137 of 18063 Old 12-01-2018, 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by avtoronto View Post
4040 owner here. I can tell you that using the 820 set to SDR/2020 and the projector set to Digital Cinema with gamma at 2 yields a very good picture. I use Harpervision when streaming from Apple TV 4K which is also very good, but the image from the disc is excellent so I can imagine it would be even better on the 5040.
Thanks. Have you compared using Harpervision to using the 820 with HDR optimizer?
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post #16138 of 18063 Old 12-01-2018, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarr2k View Post
Just got a new Epson 5040 and started playing a BluRay this evening using an Xbox One X (incredibles 2) and I got some terrible “pixelation” or “artifacts” not sure the correct terminology but hoping someone can help me identify the issue. I tried the Blu-ray On an old Sony Blu-ray player and had no issues. I’m attaching an image of an example what we saw.

Btw. I have the newest Epson firmware installed.

I’m wondering if it’s an issue with the Xbox one X which is new or possibly an hdmi cable? Using the hdmi cable that came with the Xbox into an Onkyo receiver. The Blu-ray player also goes Into the same Onkyo receiver to the Epson.
I would say hdmi cable. For testing hook the Xbox directly to the 5040.
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post #16139 of 18063 Old 12-01-2018, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by bluer101 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarr2k View Post
Just got a new Epson 5040 and started playing a BluRay this evening using an Xbox One X (incredibles 2) and I got some terrible “pixelation” or “artifacts” not sure the correct terminology but hoping someone can help me identify the issue. I tried the Blu-ray On an old Sony Blu-ray player and had no issues. I’m attaching an image of an example what we saw.

Btw. I have the newest Epson firmware installed.

I’m wondering if it’s an issue with the Xbox one X which is new or possibly an hdmi cable? Using the hdmi cable that came with the Xbox into an Onkyo receiver. The Blu-ray player also goes Into the same Onkyo receiver to the Epson.
I would say hdmi cable. For testing hook the Xbox directly to the 5040.
Thanks good idea. I tried the Blu-ray again inside the Xbox and didn’t get the same artifacts so not sure what was happening. Otherwise love the Epson l!
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post #16140 of 18063 Old 12-01-2018, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by xpl0sive View Post
Thanks. Have you compared using Harpervision to using the 820 with HDR optimizer?
I've tried the 820 out to SDR/2020 with Digital Cinema and gamma somewhere around default. It's a decent picture, however, it's not 'right' (for reasons explained many many posts back). But, I do think it has potential with a proper SDR/2020 gamma calibration. But overall, right now HarperVision has way more pop and the difference is noticeably better. So, with the 820 turn the Optimizer On and set the display to Middle Luminance so that all content is mapped to 1000nits which is fairly close to HarperVision's clipping point (~1100 I believe).
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