Official Epson 5040ub/6040ub owners thread - Page 553 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #16561 of 18206 Old 01-13-2019, 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by rpoulos View Post
I’m using a 135” silver ticket screen, white... light controlled room, though ceiling is white. I'm also at a 19 foot throw distance... Epson calculators say 16-27ft throw distance so I'm near the low end so 19 should be fine.

I’ve tried a half dozen different calibrations (thanks for help on that here), used a calibration disk etc, and I still end up with a picture that lacks contrast and is washed out.

It seems at this point it’s got to be the screen or the white ceiling?

Here are a couple pics of my setup, it's hard to simulate what the screen looks like with a photo but this is pretty close...

will a SI Slate or Elite Cinegrey 5D fix this problem? Any other ideas? thanks!

I am sure I am the 100th person to respond with this plus you already answered it yourself in your post. PAINT THE CEILING as dark as you are comfortable with. The walls look light in the lighted pic but they seem to darken pretty good when you have the lights off so just darken the ceiling then if you still have the issue look further but just from looking at your pics things will definitely get better once you get that ceiling darker.
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post #16562 of 18206 Old 01-13-2019, 01:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nielvm View Post
Yes I also used R. Masciola’s patterns. Will check if I see 64 flashing. In my opinion, it’s not that test that will determin if the image looks dark or not, but rather the usage of a custom gamma or forced sdr.

Mission impossible looked too bright with me...

That's interesting, thanks for having a look for me. The IMAX scenes look amazing but for example when they are purchasing the nuclear devices at the start of the film they get thrown of the floor in front of Tom Cruise. The camera starts at Tom's face & then pans down the the case on the floor at his feet and then to the car with the door open..


I know this scene is supposed to be dark (it's night time after all) but I can barely see the case on the floor. I don't know if it is supposed to be like this or not.
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post #16563 of 18206 Old 01-13-2019, 01:40 AM
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Will check this again on my screen. In general I find that dark details are very visible with my settings.

Do you know the timestamp of this scene?
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post #16564 of 18206 Old 01-13-2019, 02:53 AM
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Originally Posted by nielvm View Post
Will check this again on my screen. In general I find that dark details are very visible with my settings.

Do you know the timestamp of this scene?

Its at 9:39.

Last edited by AdamAttewell; 01-13-2019 at 02:59 AM.
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post #16565 of 18206 Old 01-13-2019, 02:53 AM
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Ok will try tonight.
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post #16566 of 18206 Old 01-13-2019, 03:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nielvm View Post
Ok will try tonight.

For me looking at the white & black clipping patterns I am at 65 brightness & contrast 95. In total darkness, no ambient light.


Clipping at 1,011 nits.
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post #16567 of 18206 Old 01-13-2019, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmac55 View Post
Thank you. Yes, my order of troubleshooting this was to check the adjustable feet on the front (fully retracted), then vertical lens shift, then keystone, and finally cycled thru the different
prohe ction modes. As far off as the image is, I would have been surprised if any of those would have worked. Apologize for the orientation of the photo (that also emailed to Epson Support).

After repeating all of those procedures for Tier 1 support, they suggested (a) tip the projector toward the floor or (b) mount it on the ceiling. I rejected both options. So, I get to talk to Tier 2 support on Monday.
After all that, it does sound as if the unit has a fault. With the vertical shift in the center position and the PJ mounted horizontally, the image should line up normally.

When it arrived did it have the yellow rubbery protective lens mount thing in place?
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post #16568 of 18206 Old 01-13-2019, 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
For me looking at the white & black clipping patterns I am at 65 brightness & contrast 95. In total darkness, no ambient light.


Clipping at 1,011 nits.


65 brightness is too high with my settings imo... I found that there is a difference between test patterns and what you see in movies.

For Black crush it’s not enough to look at the flashing bars. If you don’t have a custom gamma or forced sdr, the image stays too long in the dark regions, theoretically not crushing anything, but while watching a movie everything seems clipped because the differences between the details are way too small.

For color I found the skin tones too red, although greyscale and cms seemed very good according to the measurements. That’s why I changed yellow on sight, with a nice result.

I’m extremely happy with the end result, only point I’m hesitating about are the light brown skin tones, which seem a bit too green. When I adjust this, however, white skin tones become too red again.

Overall extremely vibrant and lifelike picture with a lot of depth on my 9ft wide screen with only medium lamp mode.
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post #16569 of 18206 Old 01-13-2019, 06:52 AM
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Appreciate everyone’s replies thus far to my washed out screen issue... here’s a couple pics of Elite Screen materials versus the current Silver Ticket white. From left to right they are: cinegrey 5d, cinewhite, cinegrey.

It seems like cinegrey looks best in film scene, but hard to tell without putting a larger version up.
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post #16570 of 18206 Old 01-13-2019, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
Its at 9:39.


Just checked, brightness might be better at 52 according to the test pattern, but at 48 it is just about visible.

Sure you have dynamic range at sdr? If it is at hdr1, you only see the 68 bar at brightness 58-60

The briefcase is visible, don’t really have problems with that scène...
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post #16571 of 18206 Old 01-13-2019, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nielvm View Post
Just checked, brightness might be better at 52 according to the test pattern, but at 48 it is just about visible.

Sure you have dynamic range at sdr? If it is at hdr1, you only see the 68 bar at brightness 58-60

The briefcase is visible, don’t really have problems with that scène...


Yup Dynamic Range set to SDR, interesting about the test patterns, I am used to SDR & being able to just set up contrast and brightness with a test pattern and that was it.


At 52 with the black clipping pattern I cant see anything flashing until level 103.
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post #16572 of 18206 Old 01-13-2019, 12:27 PM
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I can’t see why that clipping point would be so different with our projectors...
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post #16573 of 18206 Old 01-13-2019, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nielvm View Post
I can’t see why that clipping point would be so different with our projectors...

Are all the walls & ceiling around your screen black? My room has the walls & ceiling cover with devore black fabric.


I will double check all my settings tomorrow & take some pictures.

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post #16574 of 18206 Old 01-13-2019, 12:56 PM
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Yes, room is pitch Black, but even that wouldn’t explane that hughe difference.
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post #16575 of 18206 Old 01-13-2019, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
After all that, it does sound as if the unit has a fault. With the vertical shift in the center position and the PJ mounted horizontally, the image should line up normally.

When it arrived did it have the yellow rubbery protective lens mount thing in place?
No, it was in a plain brown box labeled "Refurbished" with black foam packing material.
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post #16576 of 18206 Old 01-13-2019, 06:55 PM
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My 5040UB will be one year old in two weeks. It's my only display. Today, when the original lamp reached 3089 hours, mostly on High Power Consumption, I decided it was time to change it for a new one.

The image is now brighter. It's not an earth shattering difference, but it is better. It's probably about the same difference as going from Med power to High power, but this is just a seat-of-the-pants measurement.

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post #16577 of 18206 Old 01-14-2019, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
I watched Mission Impossible Fallout last night & found that it was to dark in some scenes so after I tried checking brightness with the black clipping pattern included with R.Masciola’s HDR-10 UHD Test Patterns and with a brightness of 51 I cant see level 68 barely flashing.


Thing is even with the brightness control at 100 I cant see it flashing either.



@nielvm I am using your settings with a tweaked two point grayscale, do you use the same patterns for checking brightness? Can you see level 68 flashing?
Did a complete new HDR calibration this weekend with calman (BT2390) and mascioals patterns that turned out really well.
General:
Digital cinema
BT2020
SDR
Power consuption medium
Super white off
Auto Iris: off ( if you have this on during calibration you will have inconsistant data)

What I found out is that after brigtness setting you need to set customized gamma as best as you can refering to EOTF otherwise RGB balance was almost impossible.

Workflow
Brigtness
Contrast
Gamma
Brigtness, now you definitly should be able too see 68 barely flash
White point
RGBCMY

Neither of nielvm, harpervision and other suggestions was not working for me.
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post #16578 of 18206 Old 01-14-2019, 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Bmac55 View Post
No, it was in a plain brown box labeled "Refurbished" with black foam packing material.
The yellow insert is to protect the lens from movement in transit. It should have been in place. Maybe that is what has caused the problem?
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post #16579 of 18206 Old 01-14-2019, 02:35 AM
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Originally Posted by antr View Post
Did a complete new HDR calibration this weekend with calman (BT2390) and mascioals patterns that turned out really well.

General:

Digital cinema

BT2020

SDR

Power consuption medium

Super white off

Auto Iris: off ( if you have this on during calibration you will have inconsistant data)



What I found out is that after brigtness setting you need to set customized gamma as best as you can refering to EOTF otherwise RGB balance was almost impossible.



Workflow

Brigtness

Contrast

Gamma

Brigtness, now you definitly should be able too see 68 barely flash

White point

RGBCMY



Neither of nielvm, harpervision and other suggestions was not working for me.
Would you like to share your complete settings?
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post #16580 of 18206 Old 01-14-2019, 02:55 AM
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Would you like to share your complete settings?
shure, but it will take until weekend when i'm back home...
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post #16581 of 18206 Old 01-14-2019, 02:56 AM
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shure, but it will take until weekend when i'm back home...
No problem, thanx
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post #16582 of 18206 Old 01-14-2019, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antr View Post
Did a complete new HDR calibration this weekend with calman (BT2390) and mascioals patterns that turned out really well.

Neither of nielvm, harpervision and other suggestions was not working for me.

How did you go about customizing gamma as best as you can referring to EOTF?



From what data I have given to Ted he tells me that something is wrong with CalMAN when I use BT2390.



We used HCFR to compare data from CalMAN & it did not match suggesting that something is wrong with what CalMAN is reporting.
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post #16583 of 18206 Old 01-14-2019, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
How did you go about customizing gamma as best as you can referring to EOTF?



From what data I have given to Ted he tells me that something is wrong with CalMAN when I use BT2390.



We used HCFR to compare data from CalMAN & it did not match suggesting that something is wrong with what CalMAN is reporting.
I did not notice similar issue as you have done using BT2390.
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post #16584 of 18206 Old 01-14-2019, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by antr View Post
I did not notice similar issue as you have done using BT2390.



Did you cross check your results with HCFR afterwards?


Also how did you go about adjusting the gamma to align with EOFT? What patterns did you use?
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post #16585 of 18206 Old 01-14-2019, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpoulos View Post
Appreciate everyone’s replies thus far to my washed out screen issue... here’s a couple pics of Elite Screen materials versus the current Silver Ticket white. From left to right they are: cinegrey 5d, cinewhite, cinegrey.

It seems like cinegrey looks best in film scene, but hard to tell without putting a larger version up.
I have gone down the same exact road as you. I have the same problem with wash-out on bright scenes and it is 100% due to my white ceiling. I have a white cathedral ceiling (lots of surface area) that just bounces light everywhere.

I have also experimented with ALR screen samples but none had a big effect. I temporarily placed a piece of black fabric across some of my exposed beams (covering an area of the ceiling equivalent to 4ft from the screen) and voila: problem solved. It was a huge difference.

I have to agree with others here that you have only one good option: darken the ceiling. At least your ceiling is low and flat. It allows both permanent and temporary options.

I am in the unfortunate situation where I am now building a diy motorized shade (about 10 feet wide) to black out my ceiling when I use my projector.
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post #16586 of 18206 Old 01-14-2019, 11:09 AM
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So here is some images between neilvm's default settings & mine just adjusting the brightness & contrast with auto iris off.


White clipping


Niel



Me:



Black clipping


Niel





Me:



M I Fallout:


Niel:



Me:
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post #16587 of 18206 Old 01-14-2019, 12:12 PM
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You mean you adjusted my settings only using contrast and brightness?

With the Black clipping my bars are way more visible at 48.
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post #16588 of 18206 Old 01-14-2019, 12:16 PM
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post #16589 of 18206 Old 01-14-2019, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nielvm View Post
You mean you adjusted my settings only using contrast and brightness?

With the Black clipping my bars are way more visible at 48.

Yes using your exact settings other than adjustments to brightness, contrast & adjustment to the two point colour temp controls
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post #16590 of 18206 Old 01-14-2019, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
The yellow insert is to protect the lens from movement in transit. It should have been in place. Maybe that is what has caused the problem?

Mine didnt have this and i only had mine for 2 weeks.

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