Official Epson 5040ub/6040ub owners thread - Page 587 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #17581 of 18217 Old 06-24-2019, 10:54 AM
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Can’t find any posts on this. Was the issue of auto switching from a current SDR picture mode to a different HDR picture preset when HDR is detected ever resolved in firmware?
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post #17582 of 18217 Old 06-24-2019, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrcusVaruna View Post
Hey Adam, If your going to run my autobright settings you want to set the 820 to HDR2020. Also, I prefer setting it to the 500 nit projector setting as it applies tone mapping to the 1000 nit image brightening it up a bit. But it’s perfectly acceptable to use the middle 1000 nit setting as my settings will show all data in a 1000 nit signal. As for optimizer yes your going to want it on as it will optimize 4000 nit titles down to 1000 and if you choose the projector setting it will optimize 1000 nit titles to a 500 nit max luminance setting. And no this does not impact the custom tone mapping any custom hdr tone map on the projector end applies. If you have any more questions just let me know, I’m happy to help.

Anthony


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My thanks Anthony for all the great info I will be sure to try out the projector setting on the UB820 to see how it looks.

I have been contemplating having a go at my own curve but the more I read about it the more I am put off

It seems the way the Epson's controls are implemented do not help the situation & they all effect one another.

Up to now I have just been using curves posted in this thread & just touching up the two point grayscale, brightness & contrast.

Adam
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post #17583 of 18217 Old 06-25-2019, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradP View Post
Can’t find any posts on this. Was the issue of auto switching from a current SDR picture mode to a different HDR picture preset when HDR is detected ever resolved in firmware?

Not as far as I'm aware. The picture setting has to be selected manually from the saved options for any/everything you watch.
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post #17584 of 18217 Old 06-25-2019, 09:47 PM
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I currently have a 5040ub in a dedicated theater room and 1080 and 4k video looks GREAT on my 105 inch screen. Itt's so great that sometimes a well made 1080 isnt really that much worse than a 4k. But to be honest, I'm not exactly an expert. But with that size screen and in a dedicated environment I feel like this "cheaper" projector does very well.

My only complaint is that I feel like the screen is too small for a truly immersive environment. Does anyone run a 135" screen at around 14ft distance? If so, how is the quality with this projector. At this size screen, is the faux 4k really start showing its weakness compared to true 4k? Or will it only marginally be worse?

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post #17585 of 18217 Old 06-26-2019, 05:55 AM
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Official Epson 5040ub/6040ub owners thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
My thanks Anthony for all the great info I will be sure to try out the projector setting on the UB820 to see how it looks.

I have been contemplating having a go at my own curve but the more I read about it the more I am put off

It seems the way the Epson's controls are implemented do not help the situation & they all effect one another.

Up to now I have just been using curves posted in this thread & just touching up the two point grayscale, brightness & contrast.

Adam


it’s pretty much the worst display to calibrate for HDR. It took me multiple attempts and about 30 hrs total to get it right as you not only have to deal with the shoddy graph and touchy controls but you also have to determine what compromises you are going to make. Such as do you want an image truer to the source or one that better simulates the HDR effect. I chose to simulate HDR where others such as Dave Harper and robc chose to prioritize a more natural image. To put it into perspective it took me about an hour combined to calibrate my Vizio M series and my brothers Samsung lol


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post #17586 of 18217 Old 06-26-2019, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
My thanks Anthony for all the great info I will be sure to try out the projector setting on the UB820 to see how it looks.

I have been contemplating having a go at my own curve but the more I read about it the more I am put off

It seems the way the Epson's controls are implemented do not help the situation & they all effect one another.

Up to now I have just been using curves posted in this thread & just touching up the two point grayscale, brightness & contrast.

Adam
I think that the best picture is achieved with the following settings:

UB820:
SDR2020
HDR Optimizer "On"

5040/6040ub:
"Natural" mode calibrated to gamma 2.35 (or 2.4)

I know that this seems strange ("Natural" mode cannot reproduce DCI-P3) but the image really does look great on just about every disc that I try. It seems to be an almost universal solution. I have tried to use SDR709 on the UB820 and the colors just looked flat. Allowing the Epson to attempt to reproduce the 2020 colorspace rather than having the UB820 convert it produces a richer image for me. Even though "Natural" mode cannot reproduce all of the SDR2020 colors the actual picture looks great.

The most important thing here is that your gamma is very accurate especially at lower IRE's. Please be sure to do a 20+ point grayscale so that you can verify that gamma at IRE levels of 5-30 are flat or as close as you can get.

So take care during your SDR calibration to get it right (I know, on Epsons the gamma can be a nightmare). If your SDR calibration is lacking then this will not look good.
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post #17587 of 18217 Old 06-26-2019, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
It seems the way the Epson's controls are implemented do not help the situation & they all effect one another.
That part is true, but it also means that using curves from other can be way off for your own projector. It’s much easier to calibrate for SDR gamma (2.2-2.4) than for HDR EOTF, as much less adjustments are required for SDR.

Quote:
Up to now I have just been using curves posted in this thread & just touching up the two point grayscale, brightness & contrast.
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post #17588 of 18217 Old 06-26-2019, 02:23 PM
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Hi all - new to this thread, just ordered a refurbed 5040 last night.

Haven't read all 587 pages yet but did some searching and didn't come up with any 4k UHD players other than the Philips BDP7501 that send a 4k24 / 4:4:4 / 8-bit Rec 709 and 4k24 / 4:2:2 / 12-bit Rec2020 <10gb/s HDR signal the 5040 can accept?

The front post hasn't been updated in almost 3 years, is the old Philips still the best/only option for sending a 4K signal the 5040 can make the best use of?

I'm not a gamer, will be using this for ~70% 1080p cable TV watching, 20% Netflix/Amazon Prime (4k if feasible), 10% Blu Ray (4k UHD when I decide on a player).

thanks much!
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post #17589 of 18217 Old 06-26-2019, 04:36 PM
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So it seems people are a little split on the best way to get the best HDR image from this projector.

I am going to concentrate on my SDR calibration first before moving to HDR.

The decision between letting the player handle the tone mapping or the projector seems to be the main sticking point.

Would I be right in saying that if I am not able to create my own custom gamma curve for HDR I would be better to just send the projector SDR BT2020 & let the player do the tone mapping.

Then just calibrate the cinema mode for HDR normally?


Just starting my SDR cal & am struggling to hit 2.4 gamma even with the -2 gamma setting selected. Is this normal?

Last edited by AdamAttewell; 06-26-2019 at 08:31 PM.
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post #17590 of 18217 Old 06-26-2019, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timelinex View Post
I currently have a 5040ub in a dedicated theater room and 1080 and 4k video looks GREAT on my 105 inch screen. Itt's so great that sometimes a well made 1080 isnt really that much worse than a 4k. But to be honest, I'm not exactly an expert. But with that size screen and in a dedicated environment I feel like this "cheaper" projector does very well.

My only complaint is that I feel like the screen is too small for a truly immersive environment. Does anyone run a 135" screen at around 14ft distance? If so, how is the quality with this projector. At this size screen, is the faux 4k really start showing its weakness compared to true 4k? Or will it only marginally be worse?

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Nevermind guys, I figured out how to test this on my own, juts zoom the screen out and see how it will look (duh!).

I decided on a 150". I was surprised how GREAT 4k still looked, this projector rocks! Unfortunately most content I watch is 1080p. It is decent. Nothing great, but not distractedly bad. The only actual BAD is 720p. Luckily thats becoming exceedingly rare. I'm thinking I would have a "memory" of a 100" screen lens position, that way i do that for 720p when I have to watch it.
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post #17591 of 18217 Old 06-27-2019, 04:54 AM
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Official Epson 5040ub/6040ub owners thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
So it seems people are a little split on the best way to get the best HDR image from this projector.

I am going to concentrate on my SDR calibration first before moving to HDR.

The decision between letting the player handle the tone mapping or the projector seems to be the main sticking point.

Would I be right in saying that if I am not able to create my own custom gamma curve for HDR I would be better to just send the projector SDR BT2020 & let the player do the tone mapping.

Then just calibrate the cinema mode for HDR normally?


Just starting my SDR cal & am struggling to hit 2.4 gamma even with the -2 gamma setting selected. Is this normal?


IME the gamma is pretty stable and translates okay between projectors. For HDR through the 820, shooting for a 2.4 gamma using SDR2020 will produce a fine image. However, even with differences in room, screen and projector ime my gamma curve and setting the 820 to HDR2020 will get you a much more pleasing image, will it be perfect? No, but will get you close enough, especially if you aren’t that critical of image quality. Since the color offsets are so powerful usually a few clicks adjusting for any pushes present in your screen is all you need to do to get an image that’s 95% of what a full calibration would do. I’ve gone through and calibrated 4 of these so far and that’s pretty much held.


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Last edited by OrcusVaruna; 06-27-2019 at 05:03 AM.
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post #17592 of 18217 Old 06-27-2019, 05:24 AM
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Just got my 5040 refurb for 1151 dollars. Projector looks new on the outside and fired up and had a great picture. I saw no dust blobs or anything that was strange in the 1/2 hour i tested it yesterday.

When i went into the Secret menu it showed 0 hours on the lamp and 0 hours the projector, but i suspect they reset everything. It did show 1 lamp change.
so far so good. Fingers crossed. Looks like it has the latest firmware updates.
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post #17593 of 18217 Old 06-27-2019, 05:50 AM
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G

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
So it seems people are a little split on the best way to get the best HDR image from this projector.

I am going to concentrate on my SDR calibration first before moving to HDR.

The decision between letting the player handle the tone mapping or the projector seems to be the main sticking point.

Would I be right in saying that if I am not able to create my own custom gamma curve for HDR I would be better to just send the projector SDR BT2020 & let the player do the tone mapping.

Then just calibrate the cinema mode for HDR normally?


Just starting my SDR cal & am struggling to hit 2.4 gamma even with the -2 gamma setting selected. Is this normal?
Since you have the calibration software and meter, why don’t you use the settings posted by others as a starting point, and fine-tune those according to your own measurements?
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post #17594 of 18217 Old 06-27-2019, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
So it seems people are a little split on the best way to get the best HDR image from this projector.

I am going to concentrate on my SDR calibration first before moving to HDR.

The decision between letting the player handle the tone mapping or the projector seems to be the main sticking point.

Would I be right in saying that if I am not able to create my own custom gamma curve for HDR I would be better to just send the projector SDR BT2020 & let the player do the tone mapping.

Then just calibrate the cinema mode for HDR normally?


Just starting my SDR cal & am struggling to hit 2.4 gamma even with the -2 gamma setting selected. Is this normal?
This is normal if you aren't projecting on a white screen with 1.0 gain in a bat cave. My gamma is never flat using the factory settings. And using gamma settings from someone posted online is just as useless. To get it right you really just have to manually adjust it using the sliders. I tried (and probably failed) to explain the sliders here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post57909394

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post #17595 of 18217 Old 06-27-2019, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jt7272 View Post
This is normal if you aren't projecting on a white screen with 1.0 gain in a bat cave. My gamma is never flat using the factory settings. And using gamma settings from someone posted online is just as useless. To get it right you really just have to manually adjust it using the sliders. I tried (and probably failed) to explain the sliders here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post57909394
Alternatively, you can run a greyscale sweep with the default setting, then adjust one control fairly drastically, and rerun the sweep. Reset that control and repeat for the remaining controls one at a time. This will tell you the input range affected by each control, making the adjustments easier.

If you use the internal patterns for this, it only takes a minute or two for each sweep. If necessary, check the final adjustments using disc-based patterns.
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post #17596 of 18217 Old 06-27-2019, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic Chan View Post
Since you have the calibration software and meter, why don’t you use the settings posted by others as a starting point, and fine-tune those according to your own measurements?
Are you referring to SDR or HDR? I wanted to give myself the chance to try & calibrate the SDR mode as I thought it would not be to bad.

I have been using others settings for HDR but only touching up the grayscale with the two point controls, would you go even further & adjust the gamma also?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jt7272 View Post
This is normal if you aren't projecting on a white screen with 1.0 gain in a bat cave. My gamma is never flat using the factory settings. And using gamma settings from someone posted online is just as useless. To get it right you really just have to manually adjust it using the sliders. I tried (and probably failed) to explain the sliders here:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post57909394

That is a little concerning as I am in a bat cave with a 1.0 gain screen,

Should I start adjusting gamma after setting the following controls:

Color temperature
Brightness & contrast
Grayscale - two point

Many thanks for how you adjust the gamma on this projector, just to clarify when adjusting the gamma sliders what do I need to be measuring with my meter? The grayscale at 11 points?
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post #17597 of 18217 Old 06-27-2019, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamAttewell View Post
Are you referring to SDR or HDR? I wanted to give myself the chance to try & calibrate the SDR mode as I thought it would not be to bad.

I have been using others settings for HDR but only touching up the grayscale with the two point controls, would you go even further & adjust the gamma also?
Before adjusting anything, it’s good practice to measure the current behaviour as a baseline, to see if anything can benefit from adjustments (given the limited controls available).
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post #17598 of 18217 Old 06-27-2019, 05:26 PM
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Dominic is correct.

1. Make a baseline measurement first.

2. Adjust your brightness and contrast using clipping patterns.

3. 2 point grayscale (rgb gain/offset) to dial in color temp (you can also use the color temp setting on the Epson to get it close before adjusting the RGB)

4. 11 or 21 point grayscale/gamma - what you're doing here is adjusting the gamma sliders to get Y to match target Y

5. Go back to 3 and repeat until your dE w/gamma is good

Make sure that the iris is off, and use windowed patterns (50% or less) rather than full screen.

There are lots of other things to be aware of when calibrating but those items are better suited to the calibration forums. If you're using hcfr there are good guides here on AVSforum.
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Last edited by jt7272; 06-27-2019 at 05:30 PM.
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post #17599 of 18217 Old 06-27-2019, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
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If you're using hcfr there are good guides here on AVSforum.
My impression is that the OP has graduated from HCFR to CalMAN.
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post #17600 of 18217 Old 06-27-2019, 05:45 PM
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Many thanks guys this gives me a place to start, I have created a thread over in the calibration forums as I did not want to derail this thread.


Probably best to post my findings in that thread.
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Just picked up a refurb 5040ub to compare with my Benq 3550. Trying to view some content to decide which one I'm going to keep and I'm having trouble with 4k and HDR. When using my xbox one S, Netflix doesn't show any videos in 4k or HDR they all just come up HD. When using my Sony x800 for UHD dics, the Epson info shows resolution at 1920x1080 but does give me HDR, then last when using Vudu through the x800 I get 4k resolution but not HDR.

Do I need to be in a certain picture mode or is there a specific setting I need to enable to get 4k HDR content to play properly?

Also is viewing the info on the pj the only way to tell what resolution and and color is being displayed?
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Been loving my refurb 5040. I've been looking around for what hdr settings and stuff but stuff seems very buried. Could someone point me towards this so called harpervision? Anyone got any tips for how to install it? Thanks all!
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Hi All,

Thus far I have been using my 5040 for 1080P Blu-ray movies and in my setup I'm satisfied with the 1080 resolution and haven't upgraded to a 4K DVD player. I'm seen a few Netflix movies I'd like to watch on the big screen and am trying to figure out the best way to do that. I wasn't satisfied with the sharpness of Netflix via the Netflix app on my Oppo Blu-ray player and am thinking streaming 4K might give the the sharpness of Blu-ray off the disc.

Before I buy a bunch of stuff I do have a few questions some here might be able to answer.

1. Are most of the newer Netflix productions available in 4K and how can I find out if 4K is available, since I don't currently have a 4K streamer or player? I didn't find the Netflix website very helpful, but maybe I didn't know the right question to ask.

2. I've used Roku products for years and am thinking a 4K Roku streamer might be my best option. Is there anything better out there?

3. My internet speed is 30 mbps. Is that fast enough for 4K steaming? I'm running an ethernet drop to my theater room to perhaps improve speed and reliability. I should have the full bandwidth available for a streamer anytime I'm watching a movie.

4. I have a good quality HDMI cable running to the 5040, but it is pre-4K cable. I need about 25 feet of cable to get to the projector and wonder if someone could suggest a 4K cable that seems to work consistently with the 5040 at that that distance for 4K.

Thanks for any advice.

MIKE

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mraub View Post
Thus far I have been using my 5040 for 1080P Blu-ray movies and in my setup I'm satisfied with the 1080 resolution and haven't upgraded to a 4K DVD player. I'm seen a few Netflix movies I'd like to watch on the big screen and am trying to figure out the best way to do that. I wasn't satisfied with the sharpness of Netflix via the Netflix app on my Oppo Blu-ray player and am thinking streaming 4K might give the the sharpness of Blu-ray off the disc.
You can find a list of 4K shows here:
https://hd-report.com/list-of-4k-ult...ws-on-netflix/

Because of the HDMI limitations of the 5040UB, you can only watch 4K HDR at 24 fps. Most Netflix shows are at 24 fps, but some streaming apps convert them to 60 fps which the Epson cannot handle. The ATV4K can do that; I’m not sure about Roku.
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post #17605 of 18217 Old 06-29-2019, 06:32 PM
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Using an Oppo 203/205 together with a Panasonic 820 into an Epson 5040

Hi All,

I have been reading and searching the Epson 5040 thread, the Oppo 203/205 threads and the Panasonic 820 thread, and was hoping for some advice that I don’t think has been covered.

I have an Oppo 205 and an Epson 5040 that I have never been completely happy with the amount of messing around I have to do either spinning 4K discs or 4K from Roku Ultra on a title by title basis. My family is even less impressed! This system is mainly used for movies at night on a Stewart 2.35:1 Cima Neve 138” screen - not a dedicated room and it has white walls etc.

Reading the feed back on the Panasonic 820 I decided to buy one to compare.

With the Panasonic 820 fed directly into the Epson 5040 resulted in a more simply achieved, improved image. Unfortunately I also discovered the issue where the Panasonic/streaming apps need to output 4K/60 4:4:4 to achieve HDR and 3840 x 2160 and will default to 4k/60 4:2:0 (SDR) when fed directly to the 5040. I also managed to get 2K BT2020 by messing with the 820 config but no better.

So I decided to run the Panasonic 820 into the Oppo 205 (HDMI In) at 4K/60 4:4:4 and have the output of the Oppo send 4K/30 4:2:2 to the 5040.
This resulted in HDR and 3840 x 2160. Plus what I believe to be very similar, easy to achieve, images as feeding the 820 direct in to the 5040, probably superior as it was really 4K HDR

Am I missing something here? Can I just use the 205 as a scaler? Is it impacting the image in some way that is not immediately obvious?

I was considering replacing the Oppo 205 but it also is my 2 Channel Analog (Balanced) disc spinner and my USB DAC. So to really replace it I would need to buy a HD Fury Integral for the 820 connection to the Epson 5040 for HDR streaming, and a balanced DAC (USB and Optical) which together will be at least $2K. Probably less than what I could get for the 205 but a bunch of evaluating work and hassle.

Thanks for the advice in advance…….
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post #17606 of 18217 Old 06-30-2019, 01:47 PM
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I am trying to set up madvr with my 5040.
For some reason I am not able to get 10/12 bit rgb on any of the 4k modes. The only option I get is 8 bit 4:2:0 and limited.

Is anyone successful at getting 23/4/25/30 hdr with madvr on 5040?

I have an Nvidia 2060.




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post #17607 of 18217 Old 07-01-2019, 07:28 AM
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New 5040 owner here with something I found strange. Hooking up an AppleTV straight in I could not do any HDR content. Hook the ATV into my Onkyo and then use the same cable to the projector and HDR works. I would have thought if a cable wasn't compatible that would still be the case with the projector. I tried 3 different cables straight from apple tv and none worked but no problems when feeding from the receiver. Seems odd to me but not a lot of experience.
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post #17608 of 18217 Old 07-01-2019, 01:40 PM
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I received my Refurbished epson 5040 last week and it seems to be a good one. I do have one thing i noticed and i don't know if it is normal or no so i will ask the question here.

I am running the projector in eco and feeding it a 1080p single from a comcast x1 box
If i have all the sound off and only a picture I notice an increase in the noise level of the projector when i turn 4k enhancement on. It is not additional fan noise it is something else.


Has anyone noticed this when turning 4k enhancement on and off?
could it be a vibration from the pixel shifting?

Thanks,

Carl.
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post #17609 of 18217 Old 07-01-2019, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlb1 View Post
could it be a vibration from the pixel shifting?
You got it

Epson 6040ub
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post #17610 of 18217 Old 07-01-2019, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by estabanj View Post
Using an Oppo 203/205 together with a Panasonic 820 into an Epson 5040

This resulted in HDR and 3840 x 2160. Plus what I believe to be very similar, easy to achieve, images as feeding the 820 direct in to the 5040, probably superior as it was really 4K HDR

Am I missing something here? Can I just use the 205 as a scaler? Is it impacting the image in some way that is not immediately obvious?
I used to live in Los Angeles, so my perspective is tarnished; but in Hollywood, "If it looks good, it IS good."

Just enjoy.
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