Optoma UHD60 4K HDR Projector at CES 2017 - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 380 Old 01-09-2017, 02:10 AM
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Originally Posted by dreamer View Post
True, but is is still not 8M pixels simultaneously displayed is it ?
I think this depends on your definition of simultaneously. For the human eye it is simultaneously.

If you want to call it "faux-k", then we would need another term for pixel-shifted 4k. Because a pixel shifted image has some visual differences to a native/real/true 4k image, but the TI-dlp-4k doesn't.
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post #32 of 380 Old 01-09-2017, 04:52 AM
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This is very good news. As a Benq W1070 owner I can't wait to enter the 4K and HDR area. I was considering the Epson 5040ub, but it looks like this new 4K DLP from Optoma will be a better option. Hopefully the release won't take too long.
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post #33 of 380 Old 01-09-2017, 05:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroOverride View Post
I think this depends on your definition of simultaneously. For the human eye it is simultaneously.

If you want to call it "faux-k", then we would need another term for pixel-shifted 4k. Because a pixel shifted image has some visual differences to a native/real/true 4k image, but the TI-dlp-4k doesn't.
Impossible, the pixels overlap, so it cannot be 1:1 with true 4K.
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post #34 of 380 Old 01-09-2017, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by TheronB View Post
Impossible, the pixels overlap, so it cannot be 1:1 with true 4K.
Yes, and the sequential rate is kinda low (120Hz), so when you move your eyes (pans) you visually "lose" the doubling.

Anyway, the Acer V9800 was very, very impressive in shrpness, even when fed with FullHD.

Now if they can improve contrast, add a good FI and DI, they clearly have a winner.
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post #35 of 380 Old 01-09-2017, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by TheronB View Post
Impossible, the pixels overlap, so it cannot be 1:1 with true 4K.
Do they overlap ? The description makes reference to an additional mirror that the entire DMD image bounces off of. That sounds like it produces half of an interlaced frame with the additional mirror in one position and then the other half of the interlaced frame after the mirror has shifted the pixels into the other position.

If it was simply going to project 4M pixels of the 8M total and then project the next 4M pixels on top in a time multiplexed fashion, why the need for the additional mirror ? If it does this, then it seems no better than the Epson/JVC 2M chips -- if we don't care that all 8M pixels are not projected simultaneously, as long as all the pixels are projected within the brain's ability to composite the image, then the same could have been said about interlaced TV for those people not sensitive to the time gap between frames. I suppose there actually is a difference in that a DMD is putting all the pixels it can on the screen at once rather than scanning lines, but it still seems a step backward to have a display that doesn't display all pixels simultaneously. Yes, 1080P DLP doesn't produce all the COLORS in each pixel simultaneously, but all the pixels exist at once rather than only projecting "odd numbered" rows of pixels or "even numbered rows" but never "all rows" at once. It is really just the hue and saturation of each pixel that takes time to build up.

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post #36 of 380 Old 01-09-2017, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkmarket View Post
To clarify you are saying the Optoma UHD60 4K projector will have 3d. Am I understanding that correctly?
Yes, but it will be standard 1080p 3D as there is no 4K 3D bluray spec so no development taking place for it on lower cost 4K projectors.
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post #37 of 380 Old 01-09-2017, 07:23 AM
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It's a great surprise to see a 4k DLP solution below the US$ 3000 and it's a excelent job from Optoma. I'd really hope this unit have a positive reviews and see how it's compare to the Benq and Acer solution.
But for now i'm looking for the ZH55, it's very promising projector and i'm very curious to see how it will perform.
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post #38 of 380 Old 01-09-2017, 12:07 PM
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I hope I will be able to fill a 135 inch screen from 10-11 feet away ^^;; if so I just might have found my upgrade ^_^

Projector: BenQ w1500 + ES Sable 135" 16:9 Screen AVR: Marantz SR6011 ATMOS/DTSX + Unity 2ch Amp + Darbee 5000s Speakers: Polk Audio TSX550t (FL/FR), CS2 Series II (C), FXiA6 (SL/SR), Monitor40 Series II (RL/RR), TSx110B (Ceiling FL/FR RL/RR) LFE: (2) JL Audio 12" Subs + (2) Dayton 15" Subs + (2) ButtKicker LFE Arrangement: 7.1.4 Source: OPPO UDP-203 4k Bluray Player, Roku 4, HTPC, 2017 nVidia Shield, Hauppauge OTA DVR
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post #39 of 380 Old 01-09-2017, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
Yes, but it will be standard 1080p 3D as there is no 4K 3D bluray spec so no development taking place for it on lower cost 4K projectors.
I'm not sure about that. Everything I've seen from reasonable sources says the latter (no 3D at all and all new Ti consumer 4k .67 DMD products), but I would love to be wrong.
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post #40 of 380 Old 01-09-2017, 01:07 PM
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Awesome news! Can't wait to read final specs soon! Amazing price!
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post #41 of 380 Old 01-09-2017, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroOverride View Post
I think this depends on your definition of simultaneously. For the human eye it is simultaneously.

If you want to call it "faux-k", then we would need another term for pixel-shifted 4k. Because a pixel shifted image has some visual differences to a native/real/true 4k image, but the TI-dlp-4k doesn't.
Yeah you can also argue that DLP by it's nature never simultaneously displays it's pixels. So perhaps pixel-shifting DLP is a better idea than pixel shifting LCD.
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post #42 of 380 Old 01-09-2017, 02:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by GekkoSoze View Post
Yeah you can also argue that DLP by it's nature never simultaneously displays it's pixels. So perhaps pixel-shifting DLP is a better idea than pixel shifting LCD.
Absolutely agree with this. I was staring at my DLP's image yesterday and feel like it hums or resonates or pulses, subconsciously perhaps, but it's there. I find it quite pleasant.
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post #43 of 380 Old 01-09-2017, 02:30 PM
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Then JVC will hammer this thing in every aspect other than sharpness with 4K.
JVC is pretty horrible for input lag. Unusable for even casual gamers at 123ms, so it's more than just sharpness.
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Getting ready for the jump into full-on theater build
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post #44 of 380 Old 01-09-2017, 05:46 PM
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RE RGBRGB vs RGBCMY

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Originally Posted by zim2411 View Post
Red, green, blue, cyan, yellow? What's the advantage of one over the other?
The RGBCMY allows the projector to pass more light to the screen at a modest cost to color accuracy-- the Secondary (CYAN-MAGENTA-YELLOW) segments pass twice as much light as the primary (RGB) filters at the same lamp wattage. TI branded the processing required for this "brilliant color". In practice, RGBCMY wheels are not as good for color accuracy. Keep in mind the bulk of optoma/coretronic business comes from enterprise/education, where they need to put a ton of lumens cheaply into a high ambient situation. Optoma will likely sell this to both crowds.
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post #45 of 380 Old 01-09-2017, 05:54 PM
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Very cool projector. Ive yet to view a single-chip DLP that does't give off the rainbow effect. I love 3-chip DLPs. Any news on improvement in that area with these new models?

JBL Pro Cinema/JTR/JVC/Denon/Oppo/Roku Ultra/Elite Screens/Furman/Seatcraft/Acoustimac/AudioQuest
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post #46 of 380 Old 01-09-2017, 06:44 PM
 
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Any news on frame interpolation support for this model?

Now that I've seen the press release for the new 2017 JVCs and that shows the model within my price range doesn't have a P3 filter, I'm now switching back towards Optoma, so long as 3D is indeed supported and especially if FI is there too.

The 3000 lumens on this Optoma combined with high ANSI contrast should make the HDR quality pretty good.
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post #47 of 380 Old 01-09-2017, 06:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by 3DBob View Post
Yes, but it will be standard 1080p 3D as there is no 4K 3D bluray spec so no development taking place for it on lower cost 4K projectors.
Please, do tell us once Optoma confirms 100% they will indeed have 3D on this.
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post #48 of 380 Old 01-09-2017, 06:56 PM
 
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Sadly it seems this projector will only support rec 709, not WCG (P3 or better).

http://thewirecutter.com/blog/some-t...-guide-to-ces/

At this point since neither this projector nor the lower end 2017 gamer-friendly JVC will have WCG, I might decide to wait. Those extra lumens on the Optoma (3000 vs 1800) could have come in handy for WCG.

There HAS to be a way to get a replacement colour wheel that does P3 instead of rec 709. I was trying to find one for my old w1070 but gave up, but maybe a replacement part for another projector could be retrofitted inside the UHD60 to add WCG on the cheap.

Does anyone know of a source for 709 -> DCI filters? I found one once (yellow notch filter) but it cost 400 bucks and I didn't have any UHD Blurays at the time so I didn't bother. But if I could find a cheap one I'm sure I could squeeze it in there. It just has to fit inside the light path AFAIK and you are done.

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post #49 of 380 Old 01-09-2017, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post
Absolutely agree with this. I was staring at my DLP's image yesterday and feel like it hums or resonates or pulses, subconsciously perhaps, but it's there. I find it quite pleasant.
In a totally unscientific view, I totally agree and feel it makes DLP's image plasma like. The dithering makes it seem more organic.
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post #50 of 380 Old 01-09-2017, 09:10 PM
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I'm *very* intrigued by this but there are two major "ifs" in there for me. 1: "*If* I can get over the lack of 3D. I never cared for 3D when I tried it out on my ST60 despite loving it in theaters but once I bought a Ben Q W1070 and viewed it on a projector I fell in love. 2: *If* pixel shift isn't that much noticeably worse than 4K tvs. I know true 4K projectors are pretty spendy but a part of me would be inclined to wait and see how soon the price for one would drop if this is decidedly subpar, especially when dealing with HDR. (If it's a difference you would only notice in a side by side I'm sure I could survive.)

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post #51 of 380 Old 01-09-2017, 09:21 PM
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I'd keep the BenQ and wait for a true 4K DLP with Dolby Vision and the other HDR formats not on PJs yet, laser and 3D.

It all be under 3K within 4 years I think, and maybe there will be more 4K TV and sports by then as well.
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Last edited by TheronB; 01-09-2017 at 09:24 PM.
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post #52 of 380 Old 01-09-2017, 10:26 PM
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OK, I'm excited to finally see 4K start to trickle down, but, and it's a big but, they've gone with a regular lamp!?!?!?

I'd hoped, at least, for a LED solution, and really, really, hoped for Laser/Phosphorus solution. It'll only achieve REC.709 and you're going to have all the CMS problems associated with lamps.

Yes, it's a great step forward, but also a great step back, as far as I'm concerned. I'd rather spend an extra $1000 and have something with a LED/Laser lamp approaching REC.2020
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post #53 of 380 Old 01-10-2017, 04:54 AM
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OK, I'm excited to finally see 4K start to trickle down, but, and it's a big but, they've gone with a regular lamp!?!?!?

I'd hoped, at least, for a LED solution, and really, really, hoped for Laser/Phosphorus solution. It'll only achieve REC.709 and you're going to have all the CMS problems associated with lamps.

Yes, it's a great step forward, but also a great step back, as far as I'm concerned. I'd rather spend an extra $1000 and have something with a LED/Laser lamp approaching REC.2020
Probably 2 or 3 thousand.
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post #54 of 380 Old 01-10-2017, 06:55 AM
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Casio has RB laser + G LED PJs at reasonable prices, so I doubt they cost much more to produce.

Hopefully green lasers finally catch up and they can go pure RGB scanning.
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post #55 of 380 Old 01-10-2017, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post
Sadly it seems this projector will only support rec 709, not WCG (P3 or better).

http://thewirecutter.com/blog/some-t...-guide-to-ces/

At this point since neither this projector nor the lower end 2017 gamer-friendly JVC will have WCG, I might decide to wait. Those extra lumens on the Optoma (3000 vs 1800) could have come in handy for WCG.

There HAS to be a way to get a replacement colour wheel that does P3 instead of rec 709. I was trying to find one for my old w1070 but gave up, but maybe a replacement part for another projector could be retrofitted inside the UHD60 to add WCG on the cheap.

Does anyone know of a source for 709 -> DCI filters? I found one once (yellow notch filter) but it cost 400 bucks and I didn't have any UHD Blurays at the time so I didn't bother. But if I could find a cheap one I'm sure I could squeeze it in there. It just has to fit inside the light path AFAIK and you are done.

I read on one of the releases yesterday Optoma plans on releasing a more home theater friendly UHD 65 later in the year so we will see if there is any truth to that and what it means. Time will tell.
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post #56 of 380 Old 01-10-2017, 10:51 AM
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Ugh... I kept telling myself I would wait until 4k PJs dropped into the $2,500 price range before undertaking the hassle of HT 2.0. Now I will need to start thinking/planning for ATMOS layout, and the whole 9 yards...
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post #57 of 380 Old 01-10-2017, 11:04 AM
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Ugh... I kept telling myself I would wait until 4k PJs dropped into the $2,500 price range before undertaking the hassle of HT 2.0. Now I will need to start thinking/planning for ATMOS layout, and the whole 9 yards...
This might be what gets me to upgrade from my Optoma HD20 that I've been running for the last 6-7 years.

I was just talking last week with a friend in regards to whether I should just go for a 75"-85" 4K HDTV since 4K projectors were $10K, but at $2799, I think I'll pick this up with a 125" screen instead.
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post #58 of 380 Old 01-10-2017, 12:58 PM
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This is very conflicting for me.

I have an older HD33(I think) that is serving me well, but I believe there are better 1080p projectors out. Now a good 4k comes out but appears to not support 3d (there is 1 person who says it will but lots of sources that say it won't).

If it doesn't support 3d, then I'm out. Maybe I'll look for a sale on a really nice 1080p until a 4k with all of the things I want (HDR, 3d, WCG) comes out.

*sigh* I'm not sure if I should be excited or let down.

I wish CES was still going on so someone could walk to their booth and just ask them the question out right. 3d or no?
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post #59 of 380 Old 01-10-2017, 04:31 PM
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Optoma rep says it will support 1080p 3D, NOT 4k 3D, since they cater to bluray specs, and bluray does not have a 4K 3D spec yet and probably never will. Sooo, don't ever expect 4K 3D is my opinion. Of course, they could leave 3D out to make it more cost effective, but we'll probably know by March either way.
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post #60 of 380 Old 01-10-2017, 08:01 PM
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I had given up hopes of a UHD projector being in my price range any time soon with announcements being mostly in the 10k range. and was really leaning towards a UHDTV until projector prices fell significantly. Then I saw the announcement this model. The fact that it has 3D made it all the more sweet. I had already begun thinking of how I could justify this purchase to myself, but then I saw that it doesn't have WCG. Deal breaker for me unfortunately. :-(

I guess I'll have to stick with my 1080p 3D projector for a little while longer.
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