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-   -   optoma gt1080 vs benq ht2150st visual difference (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-digital-projectors-under-3-000-usd-msrp/2813489-optoma-gt1080-vs-benq-ht2150st-visual-difference.html)

Austinlele 04-12-2017 07:35 PM

optoma gt1080 vs benq ht2150st visual difference
 
Hello everyone!

I was wondering if anyone has seen or owned both an Optoma GT1080 and a BenQ HT2150ST? Reason I ask is that I currently own the optoma. The lamp is past 4500 hours and has began to dim, on top of that the projector is making loud vibrating sounds on start up (bad color wheel most likely). Lastly I am getting a bad flickering on eco lamp mode, bright mode is fine though..

The Optoma will definitely need a new lamp and possibly a color wheel soon, a costly maintenance I imagine. I'd like to know if the visual and noise differences are apparent enough between the two to go ahead and purchase the BenQ as a form of an upgrade and replacement. Any other projectors in the $1,000 - 1500 usd range that are similar to the BenQ could also be considered (shorter throw, good color, low noise). At this price I would be looking for a noticeable upgrade in some form versus the current Optoma.

Any thoughts or comments are welcome!

coderguy 04-12-2017 10:14 PM

Going from any budget DLP to another budget DLP isn't going to produce drastic differences in PQ generally speaking.
IT'll look about the same, you might like it more for certain strengths / weaknesses, but I mean generally it will be close to the same overall quality and contrast.

That said, there used to be a few DLP's below $3500 that stood above the rest (like the Sharp xvz-30000, Mits hc8000), but they are out of production.

It is a shame at what has happened to the DLP market.

dreamer 04-13-2017 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austinlele (Post 52209409)

Any thoughts or comments are welcome!

The Benq should be quite an upgrade in PQ. It uses an RGBRGB color wheel and I don't think the Optoma does. That means it will have relatively brighter colors as the color/white balance on a non-RGBRGB color wheel favors white at the expense of color. The Benq also has a longer throw, which means less likely lens geometry problems and better uniformity.

Dave in Green 04-13-2017 04:18 AM

I agree with @dreamer . According to pro reviews and user comments the HT2150ST is a great performer that should throw a noticeably better overall image than the GT1080. If you haven't already read them there are a couple of good reviews at these links:

projectorcentral.com/benq-ht2150st-projector-review.htm

hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/video-display/projectors/benq-ht2150st-dlp-projector-review/

jasonsong 04-13-2017 04:54 AM

Obviously the Benq being RGBRGB color wheel will have way better color brightness compare to the Optoma RGBCYW color wheel.

Austinlele 04-13-2017 06:29 AM

Thanks for the responses guys,

I have read reviews on the BenQ and they all seem to have been very positive for the price you pay.

Dumb question, but since the optoma is rated at a much higher lumen output will that still be true versus the BenQ's better color brightness? This projector is used in a room that will have some ambient light during the day for casual use.

Can't wait to hear more!

Dave in Green 04-13-2017 07:00 AM

The GT1080 is only brighter than the HT2150ST in white lumens when using each projectors' brighter modes. In brighter modes the GT1080 sacrifices color lumens to make brighter whites. This is because it's based on a business projector used for presentations where maximum white lumens are more important than color lumens to show, for example, PowerPoint presentations and Excel spreadsheets.

As already mentioned the RGBRGB color wheel on the HT2150ST means that it can produce color lumens equal to white lumens even in its brightest mode. For things like watching video and gaming most people prefer balanced white and color lumens. When the GT1080 is run in its less bright modes where color lumens are closer to white lumens the HT2150ST can actually be brighter while maintaining balanced white and color lumens.

jasonsong 04-13-2017 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austinlele (Post 52215481)
Thanks for the responses guys,

I have read reviews on the BenQ and they all seem to have been very positive for the price you pay.

Dumb question, but since the optoma is rated at a much higher lumen output will that still be true versus the BenQ's better color brightness? This projector is used in a room that will have some ambient light during the day for casual use.

Can't wait to hear more!

Yes, the colors will be brighter on the Benq but I think the pure white will be dimmer because the BenQ doesn't have the same white lumnes as the Optoma but that's not really an issue unless you prefer looking at a almost black and white image during the day.
With that being said, it's always a good idea to improve the lighting condition of the room as well as select the correct screen.

bud16415 04-13-2017 08:18 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Here is what the two color wheels look like. Your projector has the red green blue only once and then it has yellow and cyan along with a clear section they call white. The BenQ has the red green blue twice around the wheel so in effect it has double the speed for those 3 primaries. It makes white by pulsing all three colors together as the Optoma only needs to pulse the white segment once. Yellows and light blues are two hard colors to make bright with just RGB and your projector has those segments to help with those bright colors. In theory these secondary colors should widen and make brighter truer colors and possibly even a larger color gamut. But in practice these projectors are optimized for use in bright classrooms and offices and they favor overall brightness rather than color accuracy. Most have a movie setting that limits the CYW or turns it off completely so you have only half a color wheel making color thus the lower color lumen output. Most also have a variety of presets each one brighter and ending in a mode called presentation.

Some we call crossover business projectors and the trend of late is having say the first 3 presets do a better job of using the secondary colors and then 3 more presets that work better in the classroom lighting. Some of the new RGBCYW projectors have much smaller white segments and slightly smaller CY segments. They also intermix the CYW segments between the RGB’s in different ways because they can pulse the light at the border line between two and get a blended light output. The whole method of making colors with these projectors is a bit of a mystery but some do much better than others if they are going after a crossover market or even a home theater market. The safe smart bet is RGBRGB if your goal is home theater watching movies.

See color wheels below.

Dave in Green 04-13-2017 09:00 AM

Great color wheel explanation from @bud16415 . Another color wheel point in the HT2150ST's favor is speed. The GT1080 has a 2x speed color wheel while the HT2150ST's color wheel runs at 4x at 60Hz or 6x at 50Hz. A faster color wheel reduces the likelihood of seeing DLP rainbows.

jasonsong 04-13-2017 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave in Green (Post 52218593)
Great color wheel explanation from @bud16415 . Another color wheel point in the HT2150ST's favor is speed. The GT1080 has a 2x speed color wheel while the HT2150ST's color wheel runs at 4x at 60Hz or 6x at 50Hz. A faster color wheel reduces the likelihood of seeing DLP rainbows.

Also faster color wheel and more segments meaning more time for light to go through which also means more brightness.

bud16415 04-13-2017 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonsong (Post 52218801)
Also faster color wheel and more segments meaning more time for light to go through which also means more brightness.

Not sure I understand that. You can get more shorter bursts of light but the brightness of the lamp doesn’t change how do you get more brightness?

Dave in Green 04-13-2017 10:08 AM

I think he meant more RGB segments. RGB are the only segments required to produce Rec. 709 color space, so passing all the lamp light through two sets of RGB segments with each revolution of a 6-segment color wheel should pass more lumens than a 6-segment color wheel with only one set of RGB segments when the projector is running in a mode that only uses the single set of RGB segments and nothing from the other three segments (CYW, etc.).

jasonsong 04-13-2017 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bud16415 (Post 52220257)
Not sure I understand that. You can get more shorter bursts of light but the brightness of the lamp doesn’t change how do you get more brightness?

DLP is pulsing the light. More pulses, more brightness. Think of PWM.

bud16415 04-13-2017 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonsong (Post 52222265)
DLP is pulsing the light. More pulses, more brightness. Think of PWM.

Bigger segments, slower speed, longer pulses, less off time, more light.

coderguy 04-13-2017 11:43 AM

1) Faster color wheels (with same segment size) produce less brightness, not more. The reason is because the synchronization time of each RGB color has to be quicker and you lose more light as an absorption ratio in the light path and lens. That is why they put slower color wheels on the light canon projectors.

2) As far as 6x color wheel speed, on my Benq w7000 the CW speed is actually 4x in all modes except 1 mode (I think dynamic). I believe dynamic has a true 6x @ 60hz only on the w7000.

Edit: 4x at 60Hz means 4x color wheel, we don't care about 50hz...

Also, the Benq's do well as far as lack of RBE at 4x, I've seen some PJ's with 4x color wheels still produce too much RBE, due to higher contrast and different segement setup I assume.

3) I haven't seen any budget DLP that sticks out as "exceptionally better", better yes, but not sure about exceptionaly. Now maybe so if we are comparing to specific models that have issues, but perhaps the Optoma gt1080 is very lacking. I own the Benq w7000 (which is the big brother to the w1070). I guess the differences are in the eye of the beholder. Now, if we are talking about a Mits hc4000,hc7900,hc8000, or a Sharp xvz-30000; then I agree there are some exceptional differences. The Benq's are pretty sharp if you sit close, but they are not as sharp as the hc7900 or hc8000 (the two sharpest sub-$3500 PJ's ever made IMO).

4) I think as far as color goes, it depends on your calibration skills. Projectors like Optoma GT1080's have gamut issues, so the way to improve the picture even more would be to use MadVR and a calibration meter. You can also fight it without MadVR, but the calibration controls are more limited. The real reason the color is so off isn't just because of the inferior color wheel, it's Optoma's lackluster CMS and calibration setup. I've seen a few projectors with very non-standard color wheels that can still do a great job on color.

I still think you are doing partly a sideways upgrade, an upgrade none-the-less, but I wouldn't call it a major upgrade. Not like the difference between going from a $500 DLP to a JVC or something.

That said, as noted the main reason most people have issues with the Optoma's is because they are hard to calibrate.

Austinlele 04-13-2017 12:00 PM

Some really great comments here, thank you to everyone for your time so far.

I'm gathering that even though the optoma has more lumens, it does not necessarily translate to a brighter overall image with relation to accurate color. The goal is to have the best color accuracy and vibrance in a dark room which goes to the BenQ. As far as viewing in some ambient light, it seems to me that the difference between these two projectors will be close, and the mode will play a factor in that.

I do understand this isn't much of an upgrade so to speak, but it would be a worthy replacement considering the Optoma is showing signs of age already.

coderguy 04-13-2017 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austinlele (Post 52223729)
Some really great comments here, thank you to everyone for your time so far.

I'm gathering that even though the optoma has more lumens, it does not necessarily translate to a brighter overall image with relation to accurate color. The goal is to have the best color accuracy and vibrance in a dark room. As far as viewing in some ambient light, it seems to me that the difference between these two projectors will be close..

Correct, depends on how accurate you watch the color. The less accurate color you can stand, the more lumens you'll get out of the Optoma. That said, even in Optoma's most color accurate mode, the Benq is still far more color accurate.

The Benq's are great for color accuracy, they come with a nice image OOTB. Agree with ambient light, the Optoma may even win in that situation.

Austinlele 04-13-2017 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coderguy (Post 52223817)
Correct, depends on how accurate you watch the color. The less accurate color you can stand, the more lumens you'll get out of the Optoma. That said, even in Optoma's most color accurate mode, the Benq is still far more color accurate.

The Benq's are great for color accuracy, they come with a nice image OOTB. Agree with ambient light, the Optoma may even win in that situation.

I think I would enjoy the slightly better color accuracy and I do believe the BenQ is more quiet. I wanted to make sure that the BenQ wouldn't get completely washed out in some light, the optoma does a good job more or less, so the BenQ shouldn't be drastically worse in that situation. It's a fair trade for a better picture in good lighting.

coderguy 04-13-2017 12:19 PM

I agree with you. I think it is a worthy upgrade if you are looking for color accuracy without major headaches like the Optoma has.

Speaking of some other DLP's that are now out-of-production
I had a Mits hc7900 here for a month, it was quite a bit better than the w7000/w1070/ht2050 by a LOT, but the problem was the high RBE. It's funny because the color wheel speeds were the same.

The hc7900 had a POP/PUNCH factor that was ahead of the others on bright scenes, not sure why, but guessing ANSI contrast + sharper lens. I also owned the hc4000 (the budget DLP king of native), and I had one for like a year or so. For instance, when I compared the Mits hc7900 and the Benq w7000, the hc7900 had a significant improvement in bright scenes, and this was one of the FEW (if not ONLY) time I've had that happen on a double-blind A/B compare between two DLP's that were calibrated the same.

The hc4000 had the exact same issue as the hc7900, quite a lot of RBE for a 4x wheel, it was weird. All the other 4x wheels I've seen on other projectors don't produce that much RBE.

The hc7900/hc8000 was my favorite DLP, but the darned RBE ruined it for me, so I kept the w7000 instead.

sage11x 04-13-2017 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coderguy (Post 52211521)
Going from any budget DLP to another budget DLP isn't going to produce drastic differences in PQ generally speaking.
IT'll look about the same, you might like it more for certain strengths / weaknesses, but I mean generally it will be close to the same overall quality and contrast.

That said, there used to be a few DLP's below $3500 that stood above the rest (like the Sharp xvz-30000, Mits hc8000), but they are out of production.

It is a shame at what has happened to the DLP market.


I guess it depends on how you quantify a 'drastic difference'.


The BenQ has a faster RGBRGB color wheel which should help with color accuracy and color balance while reducing visible RBE. The BenQ has better optics and from the measurements I've seen it has over twice the native contrast. It also comes in a larger, more attractive chassis that is better insulated from fan noise and light leakage.


Again, not sure how you want to quantify drastic but I'd say the advantages of the HT2150 over the GT1080 are at the very least 'substantial'.

Austinlele 04-13-2017 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coderguy (Post 52224345)
The hc4000 had the exact same issue as the hc7900, quite a lot of RBE for a 4x wheel, it was weird. All the other 4x wheels I've seen on other projectors don't produce that much RBE.

The hc7900/hc8000 was my favorite DLP, but the darned RBE ruined it for me, so I kept the w7000 instead.

I think I'm lucky enough to not really notice any RBE. I noticed the Optoma posterizes the image at times but that was about it.

Dave in Green 04-13-2017 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coderguy (Post 52223265)
1) Faster color wheels (with same segment size) produce less brightness, not more. The reason is because the synchronization time of each RGB color has to be quicker and you lose more light as an absorption ratio in the light path and lens. That is why they put slower color wheels on the light canon projectors. ...

I'd never thought of that before but it's perfectly logical. I learn something new on this forum almost every day. :)

As far as how the HT2150ST (or any other projector) will work in ambient light, the biggest questions are how large a screen, exactly how much ambient light and how well is ambient light controlled (kept from falling directly on the screen). Many forum members have used various BenQ and other brand models with about the same lumen output as the HT2150ST in modest ambient light and been satisfied with the compromised but still usable performance. Here's what projectorcentral.com had to say about the HT2150ST's brightness:

Quote:

However, for its intended use, 1100 to 1300 lumens will be more than ample for most users, easily filling a 100" screen in moderate ambient light, and much larger in the dark.
Projectorcentral.com also gave the following tip for getting maximum lumens out of the HT2150ST:

Quote:

Zoom Lens Effect on Brightness. The built-in 1.2x zoom lens doesn't have much range, and it curtailed light output by 11% at the telephoto end as compared to the wide angle end. To get all the light possible out of the unit, place it as close to the screen as possible.

coderguy 04-13-2017 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sage11x (Post 52224601)
I guess it depends on how you quantify a 'drastic difference'.


The BenQ has a faster RGBRGB color wheel which should help with color accuracy and color balance while reducing visible RBE. The BenQ has better optics and from the measurements I've seen it has over twice the native contrast. It also comes in a larger, more attractive chassis that is better insulated from fan noise and light leakage.


Again, not sure how you want to quantify drastic but I'd say the advantages of the HT2150 over the GT1080 are at the very least 'substantial'.

Yes, better optics and better color are true. I guess I don't consider it drastic because it's still just a standard budget DLP we are talking about, and some of the color issues can be solved with MadVR and a calibration meter (if you are willing to put in the time).

The main difference between NON-RGRRGB color wheels is not really that the color is always bad (you can get good color on some), but the main difference is when you calibrate an RGBCYW or similar, the lumens are just way way lower than their peak modes. Sometimes you do have to use MadVR, and sometimes the saturation is still lacking, but not by as much as people think.

I don't care about the color wheel THAT much (RGBRGB is the safer bet), but I look at the calibration reports, there are projectors with pure RGBRGB color wheels that have poor color.

coderguy 04-13-2017 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austinlele (Post 52224649)
I think I'm lucky enough to not really notice any RBE. I noticed the Optoma posterizes the image at times but that was about it.

The hc7900, hc8000, and Sharp XVZ-30000 are all out-of-production. The main reason for their lack of success was their lack of brightness, and lack of 3D brightness. All 3 of them are fantastic projectors for a DLP. The processing on the hc7900 was absolutely superb, it just had such a clean and punchy image (beating my JVC in all but the dark scenes).

These projectors cannot come close to today's DLPs brightness wise, but I have a Da-Lite HP 2.4 gain screen, so I can get by with less brightness than most.

Going to watch Rogue One tonight on the JVC, I hope to god it isn't as bad as the last star wars movie (sorry to SW fans), but they wrote that last movie on a paper napkin, and they hired the actors from a bathroom at a club during their smoke break.

sage11x 04-13-2017 12:57 PM

"Edit: 4x at 60Hz means 4x color wheel, we don't care about 50hz..."


True, but when displaying 24fps bluray the BenQ runs at 6x color wheel speed. :)


If I remember correctly: 60Hz content runs at 240Hz, 50Hz content runs at 300Hz and 24Hz content runs at 288Hz.

Austinlele 04-13-2017 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave in Green (Post 52224657)
As far as how the HT2150ST (or any other projector) will work in ambient light, the biggest questions are how large a screen, exactly how much ambient light and how well is ambient light controlled (kept from falling directly on the screen). Many forum members have used various BenQ and other brand models with about the same lumen output as the HT2150ST in modest ambient light and been satisfied with the compromised but still usable performance

I currently do not have a screen since I'm living in an apartment. I plan to either buy or dyi a screen around 120" very soon. The Optoma projector currently sits on a coffee table and projects on a large wall (I know this is terrible to hear ha).

Ambient light amount varies day to day, but I only truly sit down to watch a movie or play games at night with no lights. The walls surrounding the image are light colored, which again is an issue. But I am planning on owning a house where I can make the proper adjustments.

Right now I'm not extremely picky about the projected image because my situation is bad, but I'd like to grab something in the $1000 range that can at least impress me in a good room in the near future.

sage11x 04-13-2017 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coderguy (Post 52224953)
The hc7900, hc8000, and Sharp XVZ-30000 are all out-of-production. The main reason for their lack of success was their lack of brightness, and lack of 3D brightness. All 3 of them are fantastic projectors for a DLP. The processing on the hc7900 was absolutely superb, it just had such a clean and punchy image (beating my JVC in all but the dark scenes).

These projectors cannot come close to today's DLPs brightness wise, but I have a Da-Lite HP 2.4 gain screen, so I can get by with less brightness than most.

Going to watch Rogue One tonight on the JVC, I hope to god it isn't as bad as the last star wars movie (sorry to SW fans), but they wrote that last movie on a paper napkin, and they hired the actors from a bathroom at a club during their smoke break.

I liked Rogue One less than The Farce Awakens and I didn't like the Farce Awakens. It's just another SFX action blockbuster: all noise and explosions and no substance. The only character I felt remotely attached to was the robot and that's telling....

Dave in Green 04-13-2017 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austinlele (Post 52225713)
I currently do not have a screen since I'm living in an apartment. I plan to either buy or dyi a screen around 120" very soon. The Optoma projector currently sits on a coffee table and projects on a large wall (I know this is terrible to hear ha). ...

Lots of people have their projectors on a table (like me) and lots of people project on walls. Those who are really serious about projecting on a wall usually take time to make sure it's perfectly smooth and painted with a flat, neutral tint paint that won't skew the image colors. But you can't always do that in an apartment.

As for size, while every projector company says their projectors can throw a maximum image size of 300", BenQ also realistically adds that the recommended clear image size is 60" to 120". So you should be able to get a nice, crisp, 120" image.

Depending on the amount of zoom used the HT2150ST can throw a 120" image from as close as 6' as measured from the front of the lens to the screen/wall. Your GT1080 can throw a 120" image from a little closer, 4' 4". So hopefully having the projector 1' 8" further back is not an issue for you.

If distance from projector to screen is not an issue you could save $200 by going with the slightly longer throw BenQ HT2050. It will throw basically the same quality image as the HT2150ST but for a 120" image minimum throw is 10', so 4' further from the screen than the HT2150ST and 5' 8" further than the GT1080.

PW405 04-13-2017 05:30 PM

As somebody who went from a budget Optoma to a budget BenQ (W1070), I can tell you Optoma's brightness ratings mean absolutely nothing. I was pretty shocked at how much better the BenQ looked. World of difference. Sadly, I had reliability issues with my 1070 and I just switched to an Epson 2045. Certainly can't fault BenQ for their budget image quality.

I know there are tons of DIY screen guides out there, but I recently made a DIY screen and I was very happy with results: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-di...-pictures.html


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