Optoma UHD60/65 Owners Thread - Page 116 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3451 of 3506 Old 11-27-2019, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
I did not mean the input source, I meant the information that the 0.66 DMD displayed 4 million pixels.
I misunderstood what you were asking and of whom. Originally I don't think you were asking me this question. In any event I think the .66 chip and the .47 chips both display 4K pixels they just do it with different chipsets by either doubling the chip or quadrupling the chip mirrors. Is this not correct? Overall I think they have the same 4K resolution in the end.
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post #3452 of 3506 Old 11-27-2019, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talontsi96 View Post
I misunderstood what you were asking and of whom. Originally I don't think you were asking me this question. In any event I think the .66 chip and the .47 chips both display 4K pixels they just do it with different chipsets by either doubling the chip or quadrupling the chip mirrors. Is this not correct? Overall I think they have the same 4K resolution in the end.
The displayed number of pixels is 8.3 million for both.
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post #3453 of 3506 Old 11-27-2019, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
The displayed number of pixels is 8.3 million for both.
Yes 8.3K pixels is 4K is it not? Is anyone arguing that its different?

Anyway, I take it most of the people in this thread will lean toward the UHD60 since they own one so they probably picked it as their preference before purchase. I just wanted to know if perhaps the UHD50 would have richer colours due to the RGBRGB colour wheel.
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post #3454 of 3506 Old 11-27-2019, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Talontsi96 View Post
Yes 8.3K pixels is 4K is it not? Is anyone arguing that its different?

Anyway, I take it most of the people in this thread will lean toward the UHD60 since they own one so they probably picked it as their preference before purchase. I just wanted to know if perhaps the UHD50 would have richer colours due to the RGBRGB colour wheel.
8.3 million pixels is the 4K specification.
4K UHD:



The RGBRGB color wheels, as it's said in the previous Viewsonic article has better colors.
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post #3455 of 3506 Old 11-27-2019, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
8.3 million pixels is the 4K specification.
4K UHD:



The RGBRGB color wheels, as it's said in the previous Viewsonic article has better colors.
Thans I'm leaning toward the UHD50 or the UHD51A at this moment.
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post #3456 of 3506 Old 11-27-2019, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Talontsi96 View Post
Thans I'm leaning toward the UHD50 or the UHD51A at this moment.
The UHD51A has 3D, CFI, Alexa, and that's about it:
https://www.projectorreviews.com/opt...ll-under-2000/
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post #3457 of 3506 Old 11-27-2019, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
The UHD51A has 3D, CFI, Alexa, and that's about it:
https://www.projectorreviews.com/opt...ll-under-2000/
When I asked for some advice of picking between the UHD60 vs the UHD50 I was given this answer by one expert. "We would recommend either the UHD65 with better color and contrast or the UHD51A almost but not quite the contrast of the UHD65. The 50 does not have the Pure engine and 60 has weaker color."

I'm not sure what that "pure engine" refers to but this is why I threw in the UHD51A into the mix...
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post #3458 of 3506 Old 11-29-2019, 02:57 PM
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the uhd 60 has more contrast: 1,000,000 to 1. vs 500,00 to 1.



You can probably find a comparison online somewhere.



the TI DLP XPR chips are: .47chip is a 1080p native 2mill pixel chip oscillating 4x to get your 8.3mill pixels. the .66 chip is native 4mill pixels 2716x1528 for 4.15mill pixels oscillating 2x to get 8.3mill pixels.



Other thing to check would be : latency input for gaming. uhd60 is pretty good at about .60 ms input lag. The uhd50 could possibly be higher?; not sure what it is. uhd65 has higher input lag.



If you are serious about your 4K UHD movie blu rays; you will want to get a Panasonic UB420 or ub820 for better HDR optimization/tone mapping; the xbox x is terrible for 4K UHD movies. (i just got an ub820 and its amazing what it can do for picture quality on a uhd60) can send HDR optimized tone map signal or SDR bt2020 WCG w/o HDR for amazing imagery.
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post #3459 of 3506 Old 12-01-2019, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by am2model3 View Post
the uhd 60 has more contrast: 1,000,000 to 1. vs 500,00 to 1.



You can probably find a comparison online somewhere.



the TI DLP XPR chips are: .47chip is a 1080p native 2mill pixel chip oscillating 4x to get your 8.3mill pixels. the .66 chip is native 4mill pixels 2716x1528 for 4.15mill pixels oscillating 2x to get 8.3mill pixels.



Other thing to check would be : latency input for gaming. uhd60 is pretty good at about .60 ms input lag. The uhd50 could possibly be higher?; not sure what it is. uhd65 has higher input lag.



If you are serious about your 4K UHD movie blu rays; you will want to get a Panasonic UB420 or ub820 for better HDR optimization/tone mapping; the xbox x is terrible for 4K UHD movies. (i just got an ub820 and its amazing what it can do for picture quality on a uhd60) can send HDR optimized tone map signal or SDR bt2020 WCG w/o HDR for amazing imagery.
Is this for 4k bluray only or also 4k UHD streaming from let's say Vudu? Wondering if I should get a Nvidia Shield to stream over my xbox one X.
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post #3460 of 3506 Old 12-01-2019, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by master02 View Post
Is this for 4k bluray only or also 4k UHD streaming from let's say Vudu? Wondering if I should get a Nvidia Shield to stream over my xbox one X.
It's for any 4K HDR signal. The Panasonic HDR Optimizer is great option that I don't think anything other than madvr/Envy/other high end external devices can match.
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post #3461 of 3506 Old 12-02-2019, 02:42 PM
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4K UHD Atmos streaming over Vudu on XboxX can look very good. (in my case, great w/HDR off) Its impressive; but your 4K UHD disc with Atmos will be better. (vudu is impressive; but the video/audio signal is still compressed vs. the disc)
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post #3462 of 3506 Old 12-06-2019, 09:23 PM
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Anyone seen this? Displays at 4800 x 2160? Just started and the only way to fix is continue to resync over and over. Just bad hdmi? Tried multiple consoles and blu ray to play 4K.
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post #3463 of 3506 Old 12-07-2019, 04:30 PM
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I have just purchased the UHD65 optoma and to my surprise I have the C15 firmware.
But I have a problem I am the "SUPER WIDE", with my old Optoma HD82 I correctly cut the image to make it split 2: 1 instead with the UHD65 if I enable it I practice a Crop cutting also the sides. I made several corrections on "Digital zoom" and "Edge Mask" but I couldn't.

Has anyone used this option?
Thanks from Fabio
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post #3464 of 3506 Old 12-09-2019, 10:22 PM
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regarding to firmware upgrade do I need to bring the unit to their Fremont headquarter or can do it remotely?
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post #3465 of 3506 Old 12-11-2019, 12:38 PM
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Question recommended screen size for sitting distance?

Two years ago I bought a Sony VPL-HW45ES and now I'm looking at the Optoma UHD60 or 65 for a new room that is larger. Back then I recall spending a ton of time with viewing distance and screen size calculators, and ambient light, screen gain, lens magnification and other adjustments with tools online to help me dial in exactly what would be ideal for the room I set it all up in. I know project central has the throw distance, screen size and screen gain calculator but it doesn't help me with the ideal screen size for viewing distance calcs. What is the recommended tools for helping me figure this out?

I found with my Sony and the room it's in that I prefer a screen size a bit larger than the recommendation that I found at the time. It's still great, but another 20" in diagonal probably would have been appreciated.

I appreciate any guidance to help me sort out the best setup for the room that I have. Thanks!

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post #3466 of 3506 Old 12-11-2019, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottlindner View Post
Two years ago I bought a Sony VPL-HW45ES and now I'm looking at the Optoma UHD60 or 65 for a new room that is larger. Back then I recall spending a ton of time with viewing distance and screen size calculators, and ambient light, screen gain, lens magnification and other adjustments with tools online to help me dial in exactly what would be ideal for the room I set it all up in. I know project central has the throw distance, screen size and screen gain calculator but it doesn't help me with the ideal screen size for viewing distance calcs. What is the recommended tools for helping me figure this out?

I found with my Sony and the room it's in that I prefer a screen size a bit larger than the recommendation that I found at the time. It's still great, but another 20" in diagonal probably would have been appreciated.

I appreciate any guidance to help me sort out the best setup for the room that I have. Thanks!

Scott
I also noticed when using the projector central calculator that the gain for this projector seems to be over the top. It seems for my throw distance, screen size, and all other settings that I need a screen gain of 0.4. It makes me think I'm not doing something right since my room is 19ft depth so the viewing distance will be 16'-18' with somewhere around a 175" to 200" diagonal screen. Does this projector really kick that much light, or is there something stooped that I'm doing?
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post #3467 of 3506 Old 12-11-2019, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottlindner View Post
I also noticed when using the projector central calculator that the gain for this projector seems to be over the top. It seems for my throw distance, screen size, and all other settings that I need a screen gain of 0.4. It makes me think I'm not doing something right since my room is 19ft depth so the viewing distance will be 16'-18' with somewhere around a 175" to 200" diagonal screen. Does this projector really kick that much light, or is there something stooped that I'm doing?

For screen size it's a personal preference, just use it and see what looks right.

Have you used it on a wall and found 175-200 inches ok?


Same with the resolution, it varies from person to person.


The UHD60/65 are definitely not bright enough for a screen that size, check out the lumens measurements in these two links:
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Opt...D60-review.htm
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Eps...D65-review.htm

You take the screen dimensions:
http://screen-size.info/
Calculate the square footage:
https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calcu...calculator.php
And then divide the the lumens measured in the reviews above by the square footage. The result will be the fL of the screen.
15fL is recommended for SDR, 30+fL for HDR.
There is also the issue of how much light is lost when the zoom is used, also noted in the reviews.


In the 4K space, not even the HC3800 might be bright enough for a screen that size.
Maybe with some ALR paint, because the screen would be very expensive, if even available.

I'm not sure what projectors in the home theater segment exist that could power that, maybe in the professional/venue segment.
Some UST's have high lumens, but I don't know if they can throw an image that size.

Last edited by noob00224; 12-11-2019 at 01:33 PM.
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post #3468 of 3506 Old 12-11-2019, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
I'm not sure what projectors in the home theater segment exist that could power that, maybe in the professional/venue segment.
Some UST's have high lumens, but I don't know if they can throw an image that size.
So this discussion has shifted to what makes sense for a room with 19ft wall to wall distance which is both the projector and the screen size. I don't see a "general projector help" section at AVS. Do you have any ideas where I might best drop this question for assistance?
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post #3469 of 3506 Old 12-11-2019, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottlindner View Post
So this discussion has shifted to what makes sense for a room with 19ft wall to wall distance which is both the projector and the screen size. I don't see a "general projector help" section at AVS. Do you have any ideas where I might best drop this question for assistance?
As it's mentioned before, there is no screen diagonal to seating distance ratio that everyone will like.
It's user specific.

A discussion on this topic:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...ed-angles.html

You could make a new thread on the sub forum:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...-000-usd-msrp/
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post #3470 of 3506 Old 12-11-2019, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
That link was perfect. The simplicity of 10" to 12" per foot of viewing distance is good enough. It comes up with what I had suspected. I probably want something in the 175" to 200" diagonal range for screen size. Jeebus that is ginormous. That's a 7-8ft tall screen!
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post #3471 of 3506 Old 12-11-2019, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottlindner View Post
That link was perfect. The simplicity of 10" to 12" per foot of viewing distance is good enough. It comes up with what I had suspected. I probably want something in the 175" to 200" diagonal range for screen size. Jeebus that is ginormous. That's a 7-8ft tall screen!
That is a very general ratio.
It differs from person to person. One user likes to sit at 11ft from an 150" screen.

What also needs to be taken in consideration is the type of content watched. Generic TV broadcasts will look to big on a large screen, but a movie will look fine.
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post #3472 of 3506 Old 12-11-2019, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
That is a very general ratio.
It differs from person to person. One user likes to sit at 11ft from an 150" screen.

What also needs to be taken in consideration is the type of content watched. Generic TV broadcasts will look to big on a large screen, but a movie will look fine.
Movies and video games mostly. Maybe some NHL and NFL but that isn't the primary content.
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post #3473 of 3506 Old 12-11-2019, 04:15 PM
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Movies and video games mostly. Maybe some NHL and NFL but that isn't the primary content.
Some projectors have motorized zoom with memory. So they can have different sizes screens.

It's difficult to tell how you'll fell about the image without seeing it.

Best to make a new thread, but with a screen that size I don't know if there are any 4K projectors in the home cinema segment.
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post #3474 of 3506 Old 12-15-2019, 11:16 AM
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The following is a summary of forum comments about the UHD65 HDR banding issues and suggested cures plus my own observations.

Definition of issue:
Occasionally the UHD65 is interpreting an 8bit color source video as HDR (BT.2020 10/12 bit) content resulting in an image which shows a posterization or banding effect especially noticeable in outdoor sky scenes. This undesirable image corruption is most distracting and greatly impacts the value of HDR sources on the UHD65.
My own finding indicated that the projector does not use any sophisticated graphics processing to fill (dither) in the missing color data. The results are patches of identical colors especially noticeable in sky to horizon scenes.

Solutions:
  • Have your source device configured to either 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 when sending HDR content
  • Have your source device do better dithering of 8 bit color (a device capability dependent comment)
  • Force a non-HDR signal from your source device (e.g. BT.709 8bit) so the UHD65 will not try to display a HDR 10bit color space

Forum posts that describe methods to resolve the HDR banding issue (YMMV):

My own experience with HDR banding and my eventual resolution:
My only sources of HDR content is Netflix, Amazon Instant video and YouTube, all from a Roku Ultra. Before I had my UHD65, I'd read a forum post that the a Roku's "Settings->System->Advanced System Settings->HDR subsampling" should be set to 4:2:0 particularly for [email protected] sources. Well using that setting was a big mistake, on my part, as I did not realize that stripping the 10bit color data down to 8bit caused the projector's image to band.
Once I changed the Roku Ultra settings "Settings->System->Advanced System Settings->HDR subsampling->4:2:2" and of course "Settings->Display Type->4K HDR 60Hz TV" banding was all but eliminated. Additional UHD65 HDR image profile modifications resolved the slight banding that remained due to color saturation issues which are present in the default HDR settings.

Test video's that were used to both demonstrate banding and to test modifications during resolution analysis.
YouTube HDR:
  • Real 4K HDR: Cannon Beach Oregon HDR UHD (Chromecast Ultra) This is an all sky/sunset video, if you do not see banding in this one you've likely resolved the issue
  • Real 4K HDR: TCL Four Basic Colors in HDR This one is excellent for not only revealing banding but also the colors settings in your UHD65's HDR image settings. Look out for saturation issues especially in the red dominate beginning of the video. Starting at 01:01 mm:ss check if you can see feather details on the parrot's throat while hanging upside down from a branch. The throat feathers are not distinct when red is saturated.

Netflix:
Marco Polo Season 1 Episode 7, starting at 21:40 mm:ss. Watch the brief wrestling scene for sky color banding. Right after that scene are wonderful examples of the richness of HDR10 colors seen in the blues and golds of the actor's costumes.

Problems still to be resolved:
Although my HDR banding has been eradicated, even in blacked out viewing conditions, the image is simply too dark. Unfortunately my current temporary solution, specific to Netflix, is to set the Roku Ultra "Settings->Display Type->4K 60Hz TV", this tricks the Netflix app into streaming it's HDR content as "Ultra HD 4K" (BT 709 8it). Effectively Netflix streams 4K video with properly dithered 8 bit color avoiding banding. You get a great bright 4K image but lose the richness of HDR color. So I'm still looking for image settings that can result in a brighter HDR image. Make sure Netflix is identifying the video as "Ultra HD 4K" as I once saw the change in Roku settings ignored by the Roku Netflix app which still identified the video as "HDR".

I'd love to hear from anyone with a Roku Ultra that achieved an acceptably bright HDR image and no banding on their UHD65.


Edit: The Netflix from Roku Ultra solution described above was also tested and confirmed as working with Amazon Prime HDR videos (e.g. Bosh).

Edit: After some research on "HDR images being too dark", it appears that culprits range from the streaming device used (e.g. Roku Ultra HDR too dark) to the quality of the HDR compression by the streaming vendor to inherent limits of HDR10 to compensate versus Dolby Vision. Surprisingly multiple people chose to configure the source stream so that the original HDR source was effectively downgraded to a SDR BT.709 8bit stream. Sad but I guess that is currently a bleeding edge reality with HDR. At least this is not a specific UHD65 issue which oddly makes me feel better, just not fully satisfied.
it's quite upsetting. I own the UHD65 with nvidia shield and the banding is really obvious.
Whatever configuration you put the banding you see.
YUV 420 8bit Rec.709
YUV 422 12bit Rec.709
YUV 422 12bit Rec. 2020
YUV 444 8bit Rec. 709

Now I wanted to try a HTPC and set the 10bit ... I hope I can solve it.

Fabio
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post #3475 of 3506 Old 12-15-2019, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottlindner View Post
I also noticed when using the projector central calculator that the gain for this projector seems to be over the top. It seems for my throw distance, screen size, and all other settings that I need a screen gain of 0.4. It makes me think I'm not doing something right since my room is 19ft depth so the viewing distance will be 16'-18' with somewhere around a 175" to 200" diagonal screen. Does this projector really kick that much light, or is there something stooped that I'm doing?
Take a look at the UHD52ALV on a 200in screen:


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...l#post58947044
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post #3476 of 3506 Old 12-17-2019, 01:44 AM
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After discovering that the Shield doesn't come out with YUV 8bit 4: 4: 4 Rec2020 I tried with the PC.
Fortunately with PC function and I get enough nuances in 4K HDR.
But in the tests done another problem arose, the drastic decrease in brightness for this color space.
In practice, going out with 4K 24Hz YUV 8bit 4: 4: 4 Rec2020 the brightness is lowered by almost 50%.
But as soon as I increase the frequency and raise it to 25Hz with the same color space, everything becomes much brighter and the HDR is spectacular.
But with 25Hz I have synchronization problems.

Have you ever experienced these features?
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post #3477 of 3506 Old 12-17-2019, 07:19 PM
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Checking to see if anyone has any ideas about how to use a 2.4:1 screen with a UHD65.

JDM World: https://www.youtube.com/jdmworld
GSG Devastator Build Eminence 21" https://youtu.be/DgtVxjg06to
GSG Full Marty Build: https://youtu.be/-U1deD_0j9c
UM18-22 Sealed Subwoofer Build: https://youtu.be/7ifac8Rh8gk
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post #3478 of 3506 Old 12-19-2019, 12:28 AM
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I managed to hook up a complete color space:
YUV 12bit 4: 4: 4 rec2020 24HZ



But despite all the banding was present, in my opinion the right color space helps the quality of the image but the big problem is elsewhere, it lacks an efficient dithering system and you have to investigate or understand if there is any setting to improve the nuances.

PS:
I changed from 8 to 12 to 10 bits and it took me all matching the Vp information, then at a certain point it was nailed to 8bit 4: 4: 4 Rec2020, who knows what happens in the HDMI world.
there is to say that also the flag of Win10 on the HDR makes the VP switch from Rec.709 to Rec.2020.

In short, the result, however, that the Shield comes out with YUV 8bit 4: 4: 4 Rec. 2020 which is what I need.

Fabio
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post #3479 of 3506 Old 12-20-2019, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nidios View Post
I managed to hook up a complete color space:
YUV 12bit 4: 4: 4 rec2020 24HZ



But despite all the banding was present, in my opinion the right color space helps the quality of the image but the big problem is elsewhere, it lacks an efficient dithering system and you have to investigate or understand if there is any setting to improve the nuances.

PS:
I changed from 8 to 12 to 10 bits and it took me all matching the Vp information, then at a certain point it was nailed to 8bit 4: 4: 4 Rec2020, who knows what happens in the HDMI world.
there is to say that also the flag of Win10 on the HDR makes the VP switch from Rec.709 to Rec.2020.

In short, the result, however, that the Shield comes out with YUV 8bit 4: 4: 4 Rec. 2020 which is what I need.

Fabio

Which firmware version do you have on your UHD65 ?
And what about the GPU and nVidia driver version on the PC ?

I don't remember ever being able to get 12 bits output from the PC. 8 or 10 bits only, when using the nVidia control panel. I don't recall if the projector reported Rec 709 or 2020 .
I have a GT1030 . If I enable HDR color in Windows, the desktop looks completely washed out.


Are you able to play any HDR content from your HTPC properly, and with which media player program ?
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post #3480 of 3506 Old 12-21-2019, 02:44 AM
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Firmware version C15.
The GPU is an AMD Radeon RX480 with the latest official drivers.
If you keep the frequency at 24Hz you have enough bandwidth to get any color space in YUV 12 bit 4: 4: 4 rec2020.
The Vp with any signal you put I recognize it in the same way.

As a player I use PLEX but of course HDR must be forced from the "screen" control panel of windows.

The result is not bad, I can also adjust the brightness of the windows HDR but maybe it burns the details on the highlights.

I find more correct as the HDR represents the Nvidia Shield that Win10 (always PLEX), but in HTPC with 12bit 4: 4: 4 rec.2020 the nuances are all there.

Now I have a resolution problem, I had to make a resolution on purpose because I have the screen in 2: 1 format (3840x1920) and with this resolution in YUV the videos shoot.

Using an HTPC as a player is hell .....

Fabio
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