Epson Home Cinema LS100 UST HD Laser Projector at CEDIA 2017 - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 233 Old 09-06-2017, 05:32 PM
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Yes, I too have been waiting for an affordable non DLP projector with laser or LED illumination. This is still out of my price range but I'm glad to see it on the market and hope there will be more to come.


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post #32 of 233 Old 09-06-2017, 05:34 PM
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With regards to the laser. I think this is meant for a more living room type application so along with the extra lumens for the ambient light, the instant on off is also a major factor


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post #33 of 233 Old 09-06-2017, 06:05 PM
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Since the throw and path is short, wouldn't 4000lm seem much brighter than a normal throw fp with the same 4000lms?
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post #34 of 233 Old 09-06-2017, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post
I just confirmed that the LS100 does accept 4K signals, but it does not offer 3D. I added that to the article.
Thank you. I will be building a home theater within the next couple years. No way I will get anything that isn't 3D capable.
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post #35 of 233 Old 09-06-2017, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpassman View Post
Scott,

I think it's great to see more UST projectors hitting the market, and a lower price range too. Sure, it would be great if it supported 4K and HDR but the industry still sees the sweet spot as 1080p. For the person who wants >100" these UST projectors are a great value. Heck, I bet if you used this in a light controlled room...you could push the image to 150". Let us know if you get a chance to see it on display.

BP
Other UST projectors have very limited ability to focus if the image is far from the intended size.

I am just trying to figure out how inflated that 4,000 lumen figure must be. On a 120" screen, a true 4,000 lumens would produce 100 foot lamberts ! Is it intended for use with a black screen with 0.20 gain that brings the FL down to 20 ?

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post #36 of 233 Old 09-06-2017, 07:51 PM
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What is the expected lumens calibrated at D65? Does it support HDR and the wide color gamut?

At any rate, this projector is not for me - I need a "traditional" throw distance projector and 4K. BUT I am very encouraged that they are claiming to deliver 4,000 lumens via laser, especially in a regular form factor pj (normal size, as opposed to the Sony and JVC laser unit monster sizes). Hopefully that bodes well to us seeing JVC and Sony offering 4K laser projectors closer to $10K that can put out 4,000 lumens within the next couple of years. For my 140" 2.40 AR 0.95 AT screen I need those lumens for proper HDR viewing. Even Sony's new VW760 laser is only rated to 2,000 lumens.
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post #37 of 233 Old 09-07-2017, 03:05 AM
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Originally Posted by cbaseuser View Post
Not sure what all the hate is for. I've been waiting for Epson to release a laser based LCD projector for a long time.

No 4K..don't have it, don't care. No HDR..well, we've lived with REC 709 high def color for many years, and it can still be beautiful.

No 3D? Some of us (well, maybe a lot of us don't care. sorry.)

The main point..laser based (or any other illumination technology) UST projectors have existed. Most, (or all?..please correct me if I'm wrong) have been DLP based. Rainbow city.

This could be a great quality, rainbow free solution with a very long 'lamp' life, minimal color/white balance shifting over a generous amount of time.

I'm personally very happy about this particular announcement. A lot of people will be like 'been there, done that', but this particular combination seems unique to me. Especially for the price.

done. thanks
Exactly. Don't go by what AVS members think, I suspect Epson will have a hard time keeping up with demand, I for one, can't wait.
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post #38 of 233 Old 09-07-2017, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by cbaseuser View Post
I think there's a misconception of lamp cost vs. performance. Math wise, yes..you can add up the cost of a number of lamps vs an upfront cost of a device. My personal experience with lamps is that I hate them. I've owned an Epson 6500UB for about 6 years, and have bought about 6 or 7 lamps throughout the years.

When a lamp is rated "4000 hours", people think wow, I only have to buy a lamp every 3 years. Plenty of lamps don't even last as they're rated, and on top of that the life span is how long it lasts to half brightness. Depressing.

But when you put that fresh new lamp in (a wonderful feeling indeed), after a month it's starts to go south pretty quickly. No other display tech (LCD, Plasma, CRT, etc.) has that particular issue. That's why I'm excited about the laser aspect in general. I've never owned a laser powered display device, but everything I've read indicates its dimming is negligible for a very long time.
This just isn't the case anymore with the newest lamps. Epson and others have made huge strides in making lamps more reliable over the last few years where many people are seeing minimal difference between a lamp with 4,000 hours and a brand new lamp installed. Many manufacturer lamps are well exceeding their rated life span, and newer lamps are rated out to as many as 10,000 hours.

The older Epson projectors were notorious for short lamp lifespans and fairly high lamp replacement costs. Now, the new projectors are far outperforming the older models, and the new lamp designs are really delivering. I have owned several projectors over the years, and am very impressed with how the lamp in my BenQ has held up over the usage I have put on it.

I'm not saying laser is bad! Please don't take it that way. But, if your basis for how lamps work today, is based on the Epson 6500, then I understand your position... It just needs to be updated.
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post #39 of 233 Old 09-07-2017, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post
The Epson Home Cinema LS100 brings the cost of ultra short-throw, laser-illuminated projection down to earth.
I plan to purchase one as soon as they are available. I am interested in using it to view sports.
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post #40 of 233 Old 09-07-2017, 07:48 AM
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If anyone is familiar with optics, its very hard/expensive to create a wide angle lens that retains its sharpness outside the center of the image and does not exhibit barrel distortion. The wider you go the worse it gets. This really limits how large and how sharp of an image UST PJ's can produce.

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post #41 of 233 Old 09-07-2017, 09:03 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_Integrated View Post
This just isn't the case anymore with the newest lamps. Epson and others have made huge strides in making lamps more reliable over the last few years where many people are seeing minimal difference between a lamp with 4,000 hours and a brand new lamp installed. Many manufacturer lamps are well exceeding their rated life span, and newer lamps are rated out to as many as 10,000 hours.

The older Epson projectors were notorious for short lamp lifespans and fairly high lamp replacement costs. Now, the new projectors are far outperforming the older models, and the new lamp designs are really delivering. I have owned several projectors over the years, and am very impressed with how the lamp in my BenQ has held up over the usage I have put on it.

I'm not saying laser is bad! Please don't take it that way. But, if your basis for how lamps work today, is based on the Epson 6500, then I understand your position... It just needs to be updated.
I wish JVC would come down on their lamp prices.
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post #42 of 233 Old 09-07-2017, 09:06 AM
 
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I plan to purchase one as soon as they are available. I am interested in using it to view sports.
Im interested in purchasing one for movies and sports if it has decent contrast and good picture quality with 1080P content.
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post #43 of 233 Old 09-07-2017, 09:16 AM
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This PJ has me very intrigued!

I mean...we no longer have to worry about wires and hanging a PJ, etc (Living/Family Room Applications). I'm also hoping the numbers come back favorable. I miss having my media room and this could get me my experience back with a lot less effort!
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post #44 of 233 Old 09-07-2017, 12:43 PM
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Bells and whistles aside (HDR, 3D, and 4k), if this thing has a solid native contrast, low input lag, accurate colors, quiet operation (it will be far away from the user, and will likely only need to be run in 'low lamp' mode given the rated lumens), it will be a no brainer for me. I don't think that's TOO much to ask for, being the 5040 is pretty much in that category.

Given their claim on dynamic contrast ratio (I know, not anything tangible in the real world usually), it seems it will possible has a decent native CR.

It's not using LCOS panels, but I'm Ok with that at the moment, as I've lived with LCD projectors for quite some time. Being as new as it is, you would think they would be using their best/most recent iteration of said panels.

If all goes well, I just have to figure out how to run an hdmi cable to the other side of the room! (I've had a projector setup for almost 10 years lol)
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post #45 of 233 Old 09-07-2017, 01:35 PM
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I can't wait to see this compared to a similarly priced regular throw Epson. Side by side.

Short throw is a game changer if it has good image quality. It means you can make that 9 foot deep spare room cinematic instead of just having a large TV sized image.

It means your small euro-style apartment can look amazing when the projector is off and cinematic when it's on. Try doing that with a 85" TV dominating the living room or a projector dangling from the ceiling.

I say this as someone who has an Epson 6040 (9300W) on order... If this LS100 was FauxK it would kill off half of the competing projectors on the market. It would make it very difficult to justify a regular throw projector in anything apart from a dedicated room at 120+" size.

They're not holding it back from us, it's just not-ready/too-expensive to make. How much was the Sony 4k UST?
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post #46 of 233 Old 09-07-2017, 01:50 PM
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pfff, no 3D? then no go for me.. Way too many 3D bluray's not to have a 3D projector.
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post #47 of 233 Old 09-07-2017, 03:11 PM
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Early impressions from John Archer at Trusted Reviews:
http://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/epson-eh-ls100
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post #48 of 233 Old 09-07-2017, 03:18 PM
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while I think I would appreciate 4k in a projector, I don't feel it's a deal-breaker at this point. you guys may have more opportunities than I do, but 100% of my sources are and will be 1080p for a long time to come. same goes for HDR. nice in theory, but saving thousands of dollars is even better.


what does interest me is a 'fool proof' led/laser light engine with a good 1080p lens and contrast. my goal is more to find a secondary projector that I can use for daily duties while saving the lamp-based one for critical viewing. however, if they can match the picture quality of my lamp based model, that's the ultimate goal, and I'm willing to pay a little more for that.

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post #49 of 233 Old 09-07-2017, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerodynamics View Post
Early impressions from John Archer at Trusted Reviews:
http://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/epson-eh-ls100
I just hope it performs well with those of us who already have 'standard' wall mounted screens. I for one have a 106" Carada BW permanent mounted screen, which I'm willing to adjust the height and so forth to work with this projector. I believe it's 'perfectly flat', which I've read many times is essential to ultra short throw projectors.

I realize Epson is marketing this towards TV replacements, but maybe a negative gain/darker screen could fit the bill with its high lumen output. I usually watch TV/Games/Movies at night anyways, so I'm not banking totally on this projectors ambient light rejecting properties.

Seemingly a light cannon, I hope that doesn't hinder the contrast ratio completely. I'd be more than happy to by a low cost 'grey screen' since there seems to be plenty of lumens to bring it back up to a crisp white even with a darker screen. Not even talking about ALR screens designed specifically for UST projectors...just a budget 'grey screen'. Seems like enough lumens to me to not have to worry about obtaining whites on a darker screen.

My goal isn't to create a 'daytime' TV replacement. Just a laser based UST projector paired with a screen for actual night time viewing.
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post #50 of 233 Old 09-07-2017, 10:05 PM
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With the needed screen, you are into high end JVC territory, so this will only appeal to those that really need UST IMO.
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post #51 of 233 Old 09-07-2017, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by TheronB View Post
With the needed screen, you are into high end JVC territory, so this will only appeal to those that really need UST IMO.
True. In my situation, I'm looking for the biggest TV $4k can buy and right now that's an 82" Samsung (not counting the LeEco since they're in limbo). I have no desire to mount a projector in the middle of the room. If this can fit the bill - not looking for the best pq but not washed out either - and I can get a much bigger picture at the same time then it's worth considering.
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post #52 of 233 Old 09-08-2017, 02:35 PM
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Here a good video of a ust and the aeon clr screen. I'll be going this combo in a few months but with one of the laser dlps. There also a member who posted in the +3k of his ls820 and screen, it's nice. Projector central has a good review of the ls820. Really want a 150" so as not to downsize to 120". The optoma laser will do it but it's 20grand. A little out of my price range lol
Also the above mentioned thread with pics
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2762361

https://youtu.be/DPiv3EeWELQ

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post #53 of 233 Old 09-08-2017, 03:05 PM
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I'll put this here since there's a lot of disappointment in the thread about the LS100 not being 4k.

Apparently Hisense is showing a 4k laser UST at CEDIA bundled with a 100" screen (made by Screen Innovations, according to Art at Projector Reviews), what sounds like a built-in soundbar and external subwoofer. They've shown this 2 years in a row at CES with a 5.1 setup but the difference this time, besides being 2.1, is they are pricing the package under $10k. The Hisense rep mentioned it can be used with screens from 80-140", seeming to indicate the projector will be available a la carte. If so, and considering the cost of SI's 100" UST screen is $4-5k, we could be looking at a 4k laser UST in the neighborhood of $6k.

Hopefully one of the attendees here can take a look and offer impressions.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/home...po-2017-day-1/
http://www.twice.com/news/projectors...laser-tv/65983

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post #54 of 233 Old 09-08-2017, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheronB View Post
With the needed screen, you are into high end JVC territory, so this will only appeal to those that really need UST IMO.
I don't think you 'need' a particular screen per se, but it might make for more installation options. Some people project UST projectors straight on the wall. A 'normal' screen would already look better. A negative gain screen could help tame the lumens also. I'm looking for a projector replacement that's laser based and doesn't cost a fortune, AND that's not DLP.

So far, this projector fits the bill. I can't afford a crazy good JVC or Sony laser projector, so this should appeal to more than those just looking for a UST. It's just another type of installation configuration. It will work for some, and not for others.

The main point is that it's laser based LCD that's properly configured for TV/Theater use. IMO, I still think it's a unique offering from Epson at this price point.
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post #55 of 233 Old 09-08-2017, 07:47 PM
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Any projections on what the gaming lag on this model might be?

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post #56 of 233 Old 09-08-2017, 08:01 PM
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Any projections on what the gaming lag on this model might be?
Unfortunately, all specifics will probably prevail when it's released and in reviewers hands. I will no doubt be trying this out, as it covers multiple 'concerns/hindrances' with standard projectors that I have in general. I hope it's not vaporware. With the media coverage it's received and very soon release date, it seems that it's actually going to be released in a timely fashion.
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post #57 of 233 Old 09-08-2017, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by javanpohl View Post
I feel like every piece of projector news I read these days is a few moments of elation followed by profound disappointment.
You are not alone, I feel the same way.

Still after 10 years, no breakthrough with LED projectors, no affordable lasers, no 4k except faux(which is pretty good, but still), the new JVC lineup seems like yet another milk lineup without any significant improvements on any front. Sony and epson can't bring their contrast A game any further, but yet still all the products cost thousands of euros with just minimal improvements or just fixing the last year models bugs.

This is just sad how little happens in 5 years in this department. I'm really considering buying 65" OLED and moving myself a little bit closer to the screen.
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post #58 of 233 Old 09-09-2017, 12:27 AM
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I'm totally happy with my current Epson LCD projector honestly. I just hate buying lamps for it. If this thing offers similar performance with a 'constant brightness' of over 10,000 hours, then I would be completely happy. That, and being out of the way as far as reflections go....the simple things lol
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post #59 of 233 Old 09-09-2017, 09:49 AM
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Question about UST projectors in general: Is the projected image height adjustable, similar somewhat to vertical lens shift? Or is it completely stationary, and you just "get what you get" as far as that goes?

I'm assuming distance from wall will dictate image size, positioning in the middle (or otherwise if lens is offset) will center the picture, and distance from wall will change size, just didn't know about 'upward throw height'.
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post #60 of 233 Old 09-09-2017, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheronB View Post
With the needed screen, you are into high end JVC territory, so this will only appeal to those that really need UST IMO.
Not just to those who need UST but also those who want to view in ambient light, which JVC users typically avoid like the plague. They are in no way direct competitors as JVC models have great native black levels that are at their best in the dark while the LS100 has great perceived black levels in ambient light as described by John Archer:

Quote:
Even more startling is how the ambient light-puncturing brightness is accompanied by a genuine sense of contrast. Typically, projectors lose all black level response in bright conditions. The LS100’s brightness and laser-driven light manipulation, though, is so intense that it actually manages to create an engaging sense of blackness in dark picture areas.
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